Lead us not into temptation

Edited to say the supervisor was NOT AWARE of the deception amongst the security guys. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Duration: 57 seconds


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNy10cArTkk

PastorM:
Lead us not into temptation

Duration: 57 seconds


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNy10cArTkk

Curious, if you were one of the Egyptian midwives who Pharaoh instructed to kill Hebrew baby boys, would you disobey and lie or would you obey or would you disobey and tell the truth?

LordReed:


Curious, if you were one of the Egyptian midwives who Pharaoh instructed to kill Hebrew baby boys, would you disobey and lie or would you obey or would you disobey and tell the truth?

Well, some theologians believe the midwives were Hebrew, not Egyptians.

PastorM:


Well, some theologians believe the midwives were Hebrew, not Egyptians.

So what would you do?

LordReed:


So what would you do?

If Pharaoh told me, a Hebrew, to go and kill my fellow Hebrews?

PastorM:


If Pharaoh told me, a Hebrew, to go and kill my fellow Hebrews?

Yep.

LordReed:


Yep.

I think you need to go straight to what EXACTLY you are trying to fathom. I was not born yesterday.

PastorM:


I think you need to go straight to what EXACTLY you are trying to fathom. I was not born yesterday.

You gave a scenario in which deception was employed with the implication being as Christians you shouldn't employ deception. Yet the midwives employed deception and got blessed by god. So if deception is the sin you think it is why does your god seem fine with it while you think it is bad. I asked the question so that you could see just how awkward your position is and I am sure you realised it that's why you refused to answer the question.

LordReed:


You gave a scenario in which deception was employed with the implication being as Christians you shouldn't employ deception. Yet the midwives employed deception and got blessed by god. So if deception is the sin you think it is why does your god seem fine with it while you think it is bad. I asked the question so that you could see just how awkward your position is and I am sure you realised it that's why you refused to answer the question.

I think the picture you painted, we may need to separate God's actions from man's actions.

In the case of Moses as you examined.

God didn't instruct the midwife to do what they did. They only acted based on what they felt is right to do at that time. Infact with Bible narrative, they never knew that is the boy God will use. No Bible verse showed they were acting by God's instruction. They only knew that one day God will raise a deliverer for them. Who is the person? They never knew.

So what's God's action
God's action here is to work through man's circumstances to achieve his purpose. The reality is, following Moses story and education, we will know why he was chosen by God, likewise, his training by his mother. He was taught to know the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and also his promises. Every Hebrew child was taught that.
This is the reason Moses could communicate it well and write about it.


So, did God make the midwife to deceive pharaoh? No. That is man's decision to preserve Moses, a child.

Did God use the situation to still work out his plan? Yes. As seen in history of God/man relationship documented by the scriptures. God will work through, the weakness, disobedience, deceptions, challenges, rejection of man to still work out his plan.

If they didn't succeed in their action, would God had still achieve his plan?

Yes, this is the essence of being sovereign. To be able to work through human circumstances to work out your plans without distorting man's will.


You will see this in Jacob's story, man trying to use his knowledge to solve problem ahead of God. In the same story of Jacob you will still that its man's action that took them to Egypt not God. Yet God worked through those circumstances to restore his plan for man.

So, in this case, God wasn't employing or certifying deception, but working through man's action to restore his will.

Think of this. If Moses has rejected God, whatever actions of the midwife will count for nothing. So, in the process of this stories, many decisions of man contributed to the endpoint. It means, a man may have bad past, but still used of God in his plan.

hupernikao:


I think the picture you painted, we may need to separate God's actions from man's actions.

In the case of Moses as you examined.

God didn't instruct the midwife to do what they did. They only acted based on what they felt is right to do at that time. Infact with Bible narrative, they never knew that is the boy God will use. No Bible verse showed they were acting by God's instruction. They only knew that one day God will raise a deliverer for them. Who is the person? They never knew.

So what's God's action
God's action here is to work through man's circumstances to achieve his purpose. The reality is, following Moses story and education, we will know why he was chosen by God, likewise, his training by his mother. He was taught to know the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and also his promises. Every Hebrew child was taught that.
This is the reason Moses could communicate it well and write about it.


So, did God make the midwife to deceive pharaoh? No. That is man's decision to preserve Moses, a child.

Did God use the situation to still work out his plan? Yes. As seen in history of God/man relationship documented by the scriptures. God will work through, the weakness, disobedience, deceptions, challenges, rejection of man to still work out his plan.

If they didn't succeed in their action, would God had still achieve his plan?

Yes, this is the essence of being sovereign. To be able to work through human circumstances to work out your plans without distorting man's will.


You will see this in Jacob's story, man trying to use his knowledge to solve problem ahead of God. In the same story of Jacob you will still that its man's action that took them to Egypt not God. Yet God worked through those circumstances to restore his plan for man.

So, in this case, God wasn't employing or certifying deception, but working through man's action to restore his will.

Think of this. If Moses has rejected God, whatever actions of the midwife will count for nothing. So, in the process of this stories, many decisions of man contributed to the endpoint. It means, a man may have bad past, but still used of God in his plan.

So basically when your god approves of deception it is good or when he uses deception as in the case of Ahab it is good. LMAO!

LordReed:


So basically when your god approves of deception it is good or when he uses deception as in the case of Ahab it is good. LMAO!

No, he never approve any deception.

Can you point to his approval of deception in that Story?

hupernikao:


No, he never approve any deception.

Can you point to his approval of deception in that Story?

He blessed the midwives with no reprimand for their use of deception. He gave permission to a lying spirit to deceive Ahab. In the new testament he will send a strong delusion in the end times. Your god is very kool with deception, your bible makes it clear.

LordReed:


He blessed the midwives with no reprimand for their use of deception. He gave permission to a lying spirit to deceive Ahab. In the new testament he will send a strong delusion in the end times. Your god is very kool with deception, your bible makes it clear.

I will keep our discussion within the first illustration for now.

Can you point me to exactly where God blessed the midwife deception or even her action. You know wr are speaking about what is documented not what we think.

Point to the place so that I can read.

.

hupernikao:


I will keep our discussion within the first illustration for now.

Can you point me to exactly where God blessed the midwife deception or even her action. You know wr are speaking about what is documented not what we think.

Point to the place so that I can read.

Exodus 1:18-20
New International Version

15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah,

16 “When you are helping the Hebrew women during childbirth on the delivery stool, if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live.”

17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live.

18 Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, “Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?”

19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, “Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive.”

20 So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous.

21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.

EDIT: Added ver 21

hupernikao:


I think the picture you painted, we may need to separate God's actions from man's actions.

In the case of Moses as you examined.

God didn't instruct the midwife to do what they did. They only acted based on what they felt is right to do at that time. Infact with Bible narrative, they never knew that is the boy God will use. No Bible verse showed they were acting by God's instruction. They only knew that one day God will raise a deliverer for them. Who is the person? They never knew.

So what's God's action
God's action here is to work through man's circumstances to achieve his purpose. The reality is, following Moses story and education, we will know why he was chosen by God, likewise, his training by his mother. He was taught to know the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and also his promises. Every Hebrew child was taught that.
This is the reason Moses could communicate it well and write about it.


So, did God make the midwife to deceive pharaoh? No. That is man's decision to preserve Moses, a child.

Did God use the situation to still work out his plan? Yes. As seen in history of God/man relationship documented by the scriptures. God will work through, the weakness, disobedience, deceptions, challenges, rejection of man to still work out his plan.

If they didn't succeed in their action, would God had still achieve his plan?

Yes, this is the essence of being sovereign. To be able to work through human circumstances to work out your plans without distorting man's will.


You will see this in Jacob's story, man trying to use his knowledge to solve problem ahead of God. In the same story of Jacob you will still that its man's action that took them to Egypt not God. Yet God worked through those circumstances to restore his plan for man.

So, in this case, God wasn't employing or certifying deception, but working through man's action to restore his will.

Think of this. If Moses has rejected God, whatever actions of the midwife will count for nothing. So, in the process of this stories, many decisions of man contributed to the endpoint. It means, a man may have bad past, but still used of God in his plan.

Being the Christian god got to be the coolest job ever! I mean, you don’t get to be held to any standard whatsoever and when you fvck things up or fail to hold up to your own part of the bargain, your adherents either willfully explains it away somehow or blame the fall guy of all time; satan.

May god help us.

Ola17:


Being the Christian god got to be the coolest job ever! I mean, you don’t get to be held to any standard whatsoever and when you fvck things up or fail to hold up to your own part of the bargain, your adherents either willfully explains it away somehow or blame the fall guy of all time; satan.

May god help us.

Are you sure you wanted to quote my comment or it's a mistake. I can't find how your respond address my comment.

hupernikao:


Are you sure you wanted to quote my comment or it's a mistake. I can't find how your respond address my comment.

I totally wanted to quote you.
Sorry if you don’t get it.

LordReed:


Exodus 1:18-20
New International Version

15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah,

16 “When you are helping the Hebrew women during childbirth on the delivery stool, if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live.”

17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live.

18 Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, “Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?”

19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, “Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive.”

20 So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous.

21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.

EDIT: Added ver 21

Let me give you a full text of what you quoted.

Exodus 1
16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

To understand this scenario well you must observe key issues.

1. Observe the instruction given to them. To kill the male child.

2 Observed what the midwife feared God for.
They feared God and not kill the male child.


Now what was God pleased with.
You must read context.

Verse 16 pharaoh wanted children killed
Verse 17 midwife saved the children because THEY FEARED GOD.

God's satisfaction is in that action.

But you have read the later discussion of Pharoah and midwife as an action that God was pleased with.

Read verse 21 and 17 together, you will get it.

THERE IS AN EMPHASIS OF THEY FEARED GOD in verse 17 and 21 which you have neglected. That's where your answer is.

To understand well,
Read verse 21 together with verse 17 you will get the context.

17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive
21 And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

God's action was premised on this. It's clear in the context.

They feared God and didn't kill, then God was pleased with it.

I guess this is clear?

Ola17:


I totally wanted to quote you.
Sorry if you don’t get it.

Okay, I guess you need to know a proper way of quoting and interfering into a discussion. What you wrote seems like a complain. I prefer when you intelligently pose your concerns and submission than trailing emotional tangent to express yourself.

hupernikao:



Let me give you a full text of what you quoted.

Exodus 1
16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

To understand this scenario well you must observe key issues.

1. Observe the instruction given to them. To kill the male child.

2 Observed what the midwife feared God for.
They feared God and not kill the male child.


Now what was God pleased with.
You must read context.

Verse 16 pharaoh wanted children killed
Verse 17 midwife saved the children because THEY FEARED GOD.

God's satisfaction is in that action.

But you have read the later discussion of Pharoah and midwife as an action that God was pleased with.

Read verse 21 and 17 together, you will get it.

THERE IS AN EMPHASIS OF THEY FEARED GOD in verse 17 and 21 which you have neglected. That's where your answer is.

To understand well,
Read verse 21 together with verse 17 you will get the context.

17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive
21 And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

God's action was premised on this. It's clear in the context.

They feared God and didn't kill, then God was pleased with it.

I guess this is clear?

And they employed deception in their act for god so deception for god is good and your god approved by blessing them without reprimand.

Same thing happened when Abraham deceived 2 different kings there was no reprimand from the god instead your god punishes the kings. Very clear your god is very kool with deception.

LordReed:


And they employed deception in their act for god so deception for god is good and your god approved by blessing them without reprimand.

You were the one trying to read deception into their actions. It wasn't there.

There action was to save the babies. And it wasn't deception. Even Pharoah knew that the kids were alive.


The deception you mentioned was in their words to Pharoah. That is a different thing here. The writer never said God blessed that.

Read verse 17 and 21 again.

You must know that the writer of the scriptures are very meticulous with words and expressions. Time may have passed, but they fully represent God well in their writings to the best of their knowledge. And we only need to read well to know what they wrote. This is one of the case.


Put this scenario as this (though this won't fully explain it)

Of a man who saved children from the hands of bokoharam because he feared and want to obey the government.

Then the Nigeria government was pleased and honored his action.

Yet in his defence when bokoharam caught him, he lied that the children escaped by themselves.

What the government honored wasn't the lie but the action of saving.

The action that led to saving is that they know God and feared him, (verse 17) then verse 21 told you that is what God actually honored. Their fear of God to save the kids.

My question in the short video is, "What would you do?"

You are the one complicating matters.

hupernikao:


You were the one trying to read deception into their actions. It wasn't there.

There action was to save the babies. And it wasn't deception. Even Pharoah knew that the kids were alive.


The deception you mentioned was in their words to Pharoah. That is a different thing here. The writer never said God blessed that.

Read verse 17 and 21 again.

You must know that the writer of the scriptures are very meticulous with words and expressions. Time may have passed, but they fully represent God well in their writings to the best of their knowledge. And we only need to read well to know what they wrote. This is one of the case.


Put this scenario as this (though this won't fully explain it)

Of a man who saved children from the hands of bokoharam because he feared and want to obey the government.

Then the Nigeria government was pleased and honored his action.

Yet in his defence when bokoharam caught him, he lied that the children escaped by themselves.

What the government honored wasn't the lie but the action of saving.

The action that led to saving is that they know God and feared him, (verse 17) then verse 21 told you that is what God actually honored. Their fear of God to save the kids.

LMAO! How am I reading deception into what is not there? They clearly told the king a falsehood since they were the ones who saved the babies and not the tales they told the king. And what of all the other places I have mentioned where your god actively employs deception by his own self? Your bible makes it clear your god is kool with deception, take off those rose tinted glasses man. Bwahahahahaha!

PastorM:
My question in the short video is, "What would you do?"

You are the one complicating matters.

And I asked you one in return. I know it's hard to accept that these stories can be contradictory to what you wanna believe but thems the breaks. LMAO!

Oh btw I would absolutely join them and if I was their employer and found out I would make their rota a policy, they showed ingenuity that accomplished the task while increasing human wellbeing.

hupernikao:


Okay, I guess you need to know a proper way of quoting and interfering into a discussion. What you wrote seems like a complain. I prefer when you intelligently pose your concerns and submission than trailing emotional tangent to express yourself.

How about you quit complaining and intelligently teach me how to properly “interfere” in a discussion on the internet?

hupernikao:


You were the one trying to read deception into their actions. It wasn't there.

There action was to save the babies. And it wasn't deception. Even Pharoah knew that the kids were alive.


The deception you mentioned was in their words to Pharoah. That is a different thing here. The writer never said God blessed that.

Read verse 17 and 21 again.

You must know that the writer of the scriptures are very meticulous with words and expressions. Time may have passed, but they fully represent God well in their writings to the best of their knowledge. And we only need to read well to know what they wrote. This is one of the case.


Put this scenario as this (though this won't fully explain it)

Of a man who saved children from the hands of bokoharam because he feared and want to obey the government.

Then the Nigeria government was pleased and honored his action.

Yet in his defence when bokoharam caught him, he lied that the children escaped by themselves.

What the government honored wasn't the lie but the action of saving.

The action that led to saving is that they know God and feared him, (verse 17) then verse 21 told you that is what God actually honored. Their fear of God to save the kids.

When would you come to the decision that Reed is as Satan?

Knowing the Truth, he presents the evil version.

You are just arguing with Satan himself!

LordReed:


And I asked you one in return. I know it's hard to accept that these stories can be contradictory to what you wanna believe but thems the breaks. LMAO!

Oh btw I would absolutely join them and if I was their employer and found out I would make their rota a policy, they showed ingenuity that accomplished the task while increasing human wellbeing.

And that's absolutely fine if you want to join them. I'm not here to judge

PastorM:


And that's absolutely fine if you want to join them. I'm not here to judge

Because you already judged. LMAO!

Ola17:


How about you quit complaining and intelligently teach me how to properly “interfere” in a discussion on the internet?

What I have started with you is already lessons on how to handle discussion. I am very much available for you.

The next lesson is for you to know how to ask questions on what you don't know so as to avoid rush conclusion. This will help you to understand well.

Dtruthspeaker:


When would you come to the decision that Reed is as Satan?

Knowing the Truth, he presents the evil version.

You are just arguing with Satan himself!

LMFAO! Your god approves of the use of deception, its right there in your bible. Bwahahahahahahaha!

hupernikao:


What I have started with you is already lessons on how to handle discussion. I am very much available for you.

The next lesson is for you to know how to ask questions on what you don't know so as to avoid rush conclusion. This will help you to understand well.

Why do you make excuses for your god whenever it perpetuate or condone lies and deception?