LordReed:


Exodus 1:18-20
New International Version

15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah,

16 “When you are helping the Hebrew women during childbirth on the delivery stool, if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live.”

17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live.

18 Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, “Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?”

19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, “Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive.”

20 So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous.

21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.

EDIT: Added ver 21

If you want to criticise, at least criticise intelligently and with open mind.

You quoted verses yet you can't see where you contradicted yourself.

Here is my point!

1. The King of Egypt who is Pharaoh gave a command according to verse 17
2. The midwives feared God and didn't follow the command of Pharaoh (this is not a deception)
3. Pharaoh himself found out and called them for interrogation (if it's a deception Pharaoh could have taken action on them and eventually executed the boy)
4. God blessed the midwives for fearing Him not for deception that's never happened in the first place.

So I don't know where an open-minded person see deception in a case like this.

LordReed:


Have you gotten that your god is kool with deception yet? LMFAO!

I believe you have been cleared about the midwife and Abraham.

Now let me take the 2 Thess 2 you have emphasized. Truly i would have loved it if you are into Christian hermeneutics, it would make things easy for me to explain because of the route i will take now.

Now the problem in 2 Thess 2 isnt your own but the way the translators addressed it. And this is the reasons most times in hermeneutics you have to examine the original writings to conclude.

---

Now this is what you quoted.
2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: KJV

I can authoritative tell you this is wrong considering the context and usage of words.

1. The word delusion there is taken from the word planē, it means error or to stray away.

KJV captured it better in James 5
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The word error (planē) here is what 2 Thess 2:11 captured as delusion.

---

This is even simpler mistake by most of the translation, the key mistake from the translation is in expressing the whole verse different from the original writing stated.

If you pay attention, it already showed you that this people are disobedient and neglected God.

Verse 10
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So, these ones already rejected the truth, its not about God sending them away or bringing lies to them. They have seen the truth and rejected it. That must be carried in explaining verse 11.

With this, it is wrong translation to state that God will send delusion for them to believe a lie. These ones already believed lies, they are children of lies. Hence, that wasnt the translation. If you want i will send you the way the original was constructed for you to the the translators mistakes. But let me give you the closest to the original intent.


YLT Translation
10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,
11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,

A key elements, is that God didnt send them deception to believe a lie but, left them in what they already believed.



See the Message Translation (This is contextual)
9-12 The Anarchist’s coming is all Satan’s work. All his power and signs and miracles are fake, evil sleight of hand that plays to the gallery of those who hate the truth that could save them. And since they’re so obsessed with evil, God rubs their noses in it—gives them what they want. Since they refuse to trust truth, they’re banished to their chosen world of lies and illusions..

Please read this again.

That is the read interpretation if you examine the original text and also context.

LordReed:


Have you gotten that your god is kool with deception yet? LMFAO!

Let me repost again in simple note the translation of 2 Thess 2:11

YLT Translation
10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,
11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,

They believe the lies, not God sending them the lies. They believe the lies of the Antichrist.



Message Translation (This is contextual)
9-12 The Anarchist’s coming is all Satan’s work. All his power and signs and miracles are fake, evil sleight of hand that plays to the gallery of those who hate the truth that could save them. And since they’re so obsessed with evil, God rubs their noses in it—gives them what they want. Since they refuse to trust truth, they’re banished to their chosen world of lies and illusions..

Hence, they were left to their own. That is what is seen in the original.

hupernikao:


I believe you have been cleared about the midwife and Abraham.

Now let me take the 2 Thess 2 you have emphasized. Truly i would have loved it if you are into Christian hermeneutics, it would make things easy for me to explain because of the route i will take now.

Now the problem in 2 Thess 2 isnt your own but the way the translators addressed it. And this is the reasons most times in hermeneutics you have to examine the original writings to conclude.

---

Now this is what you quoted.
2 Thess 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: KJV

I can authoritative tell you this is wrong considering the context and usage of words.

1. The word delusion there is taken from the word planē, it means error or to stray away.

KJV captured it better in James 5
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The word error (planē) here is what 2 Thess 2:11 captured as delusion.

---

This is even simpler mistake by most of the translation, the key mistake from the translation is in expressing the whole verse different from the original writing stated.

If you pay attention, it already showed you that this people are disobedient and neglected God.

Verse 10
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So, these ones already rejected the truth, its not about God sending them away or bringing lies to them. They have seen the truth and rejected it. That must be carried in explaining verse 11.

With this, it is wrong translation to state that God will send delusion for them to believe a lie. These ones already believed lies, they are children of lies. Hence, that wasnt the translation. If you want i will send you the way the original was constructed for you to the the translators mistakes. But let me give you the closest to the original intent.


YLT Translation
10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,
11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,

A key elements, is that God didnt send them deception to believe a lie but, left them in what they already believed.



See the Message Translation (This is contextual)
9-12 The Anarchist’s coming is all Satan’s work. All his power and signs and miracles are fake, evil sleight of hand that plays to the gallery of those who hate the truth that could save them. And since they’re so obsessed with evil, God rubs their noses in it—gives them what they want. Since they refuse to trust truth, they’re banished to their chosen world of lies and illusions..

Please read this again.

That is the read interpretation if you examine the original text and also context.

Already said you cleared nothing before. Is it that you don't pay attention to what I write and you instead just like to talk at me. If that is the case I won't be responding to you henceforth because I detest such conversations. If you simply want to write what you feel without taking cognisance of what I write then you might as well have the conversation with yourself.

Once again the summation of my point is your god is kool with deception, nothing you wrote has countered that simple fact.

Emusan:


If you want to criticise, at least criticise intelligently and with open mind.

You quoted verses yet you can't see where you contradicted yourself.

Here is my point!

1. The King of Egypt who is Pharaoh gave a command according to verse 17
2. The midwives feared God and didn't follow the command of Pharaoh (this is not a deception)
3. Pharaoh himself found out and called them for interrogation (if it's a deception Pharaoh could have taken action on them and eventually executed the boy)
4. God blessed the midwives for fearing Him not for deception that's never happened in the first place.

So I don't know where an open-minded person see deception in a case like this.

Simple question, did they tell the Pharoah the truth?

LordReed:


Simple question, did they tell the Pharoah the truth?

Lol.... So you know more than Pharaoh himself

It's evident you couldn't read deception into those verses

Emusan:


Lol.... So you know more than Pharaoh himself

It's evident you couldn't read deception into those verses

It was a simple question, a yes or no would have sufficed.

LordReed:


Already said you cleared nothing before. Is it that you don't pay attention to what I write and you instead just like to talk at me. If that is the case I won't be responding to you henceforth because I detest such conversations. If you simply want to write what you feel without taking cognisance of what I write then you might as well have the conversation with yourself.

Once again the summation of my point is your god is kool with deception, nothing you wrote has countered that simple fact.

Well, I want to believe that your wrong conclusion was based on what you read from the Bible howbeit, wrongly. This is the basis for my writings. I can only use that same scriptures where you are pointing to, to play back to you how wrongly you have interpreted it. So, I am fully reading and paying attention to what you wrote.


But you are the one who have not taken into cognizance what I am saying to proofread the scriptures again. If not we will only be in circles. If you take your decision from the scriptures, then proper examination of the text is important to know who is giving the right meaning.

But you aren't ready for that. Except maybe your conclusion about God is from another source then I will have nothing to say but if it's from the Bible text, proper examination of the text is what will reveal who is saying the truth.

hupernikao:


Well, I want to believe that your wrong conclusion was based on what you read from the Bible howbeit, wrongly. This is the basis for my writings. I can only use that same scriptures where you are pointing to, to play back to you how wrongly you have interpreted it. So, I am fully reading and paying attention to what you wrote.


But you are the one who have not taken into cognizance what I am saying to proofread the scriptures again. If not we will only be in circles. If you take your decision from the scriptures, then proper examination of the text is important to know who is giving the right meaning.

But you aren't ready for that. Except maybe your conclusion about God is from another source then I will have nothing to say but if it's from the Bible text, proper examination of the text is what will reveal who is saying the truth.

Once again nothing you have written has addressed the simple fact that your god is kool with deception and uses it to his own ends. Instead you've run the gamut of all these other things, why would I need to address the things that don't address my point. You are the one beating about the bush. If you fail to address my point I have no obligation to respond to your strawmen.

LordReed:


It was a simple question, a yes or no would have sufficed.

After I made it clear that there's nothing like "DECEPTION" in what the midwives did based on those verses you quoted, you can still go ahead to ask "did they tell the Pharoah the truth?"

Atheists actually have high IQ than religious people indeed.

Image123:


i'm not sure i got the temptation properly here? The slot is covered up by an agreed internal arrangement. The duty is done, not abandoned. Maybe i didn't get the scene properly though.

It's a common occurrence in Nigeria so one has forgotten what is right and wrong. However, this happened over here in the UK amongst African security men, where it is deemed dishonest to be paid for a job you did not do.

PastorM:


It's a common occurrence in Nigeria so one has forgotten what is right and wrong. However, this happened over here in the UK amongst African security men, where it is deemed dishonest to be paid for a job you did not do.

So were the guys who did the extra shift paid?
BTW, i know of places outside Africa where they do internal arrangements without any problems. A covers for B today or this week and vice versa. Well, what do i know.

Image123:


So were the guys who did the extra shift paid?

The one who went home to sleep was paid a full night's wage. Even if the site was covered, no manager/supervisor would allow that over here. It would be an instant dismissal.

PastorM:


The one who went home to sleep was paid a full night's wage. Even if the site was covered, no manager/supervisor would allow that over here. It would be an instant dismissal.

The OP video said the supervisor was aware, abi? If it is against management or company policy, that's different. But it doesn't seem like a moral issue or deception.

Image123:


i'm not sure i got the temptation properly here? The slot is covered up by an agreed internal arrangement. The duty is done, not abandoned. Maybe i didn't get the scene properly though.

Yeah same here. I felt it was efficient and the work was still done giving them extra hours to themselves. Why is that a bad thing?

kimco:


Yeah same here. I felt it was efficient and the work was still done giving them extra hours to themselves. Why is that a bad thing?

i tire o brother.

Image123:


The OP video said the supervisor was aware, abi? If it is against management or company policy, that's different. But it doesn't seem like a moral issue or deception.

I'm the OP and I did not say that. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

The other security men covered for the missing one so the supervisor thought he was around somewhere.

kimco:


Yeah same here. I felt it was efficient and the work was still done giving them extra hours to themselves. Why is that a bad thing?

It's difficult to pack a lot into a 1-minute video

The supervisor DID NOT know.

PastorM:


I'm the OP and I did not say that. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

The other security men covered for the missing one so the supervisor thought he was around somewhere.

Okay i see, when i heard that they'll cover with the supervisor, i suppose that's where the issue comes. In that case, i believe it's a management/company issue or policy, not a moral one. There are places where workers do cover for each other based on arrangement. That is not deception, but if your conscience is not okay with it, don't bother. People are different. Like kimco mentioned, i have been in similar situations where it was even efficient and i sanctioned it. i had some guys doing next to nothing at the period, one of them covered effectively instead.

Image123:


Okay i see, when i heard that they'll cover with the supervisor, i suppose that's where the issue comes. In that case, i believe it's a management/company issue or policy, not a moral one. There are places where workers do cover for each other based on arrangement. That is not deception, but if your conscience is not okay with it, don't bother. People are different. Like kimco mentioned, i have been in similar situations where it was even efficient and i sanctioned it. i had some guys doing next to nothing at the period, one of them covered effectively instead.

Over here, if they know that one person can cover the post sufficiently, they'll make the others redundant They'll NEVER keep them on so it'll have to be hidden from management.

hupernikao:


No i dont Sir because your response is away from reality of discussion.

Your comment never address anything but just what we can call a roadside gist. This is the reason i am helping to know how to interfere into discussions. The discussion here isnt like market gist or scene, that you just give a road side exclamation and continue facing your road. What i mean is be serious when you are interfering into discussions.

You are quite haughty.

Emusan:


After I made it clear that there's nothing like "DECEPTION" in what the midwives did based on those verses you quoted, you can still go ahead to ask "did they tell the Pharoah the truth?"

Atheists actually have high IQ than religious people indeed.

LMAO! Read 17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live.

and then 19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, “Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive.”

How can you say there was no deception? The Hebrew midwives lied to the Pharaoh that they never observed the births in ver19 when ver17 says they did. BTW so you mean Hebrew midwives would disobey the Pharaoh this way and he would spare their lives, really?

I never made the claim that atheists have a higher IQ than religious people but from these posts I do have a higher IQ than you.

hupernikao:



Let me give you a full text of what you quoted.

Exodus 1
16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

To understand this scenario well you must observe key issues.

1. Observe the instruction given to them. To kill the male child.

2 Observed what the midwife feared God for.
They feared God and not kill the male child.


Now what was God pleased with.
You must read context.

Verse 16 pharaoh wanted children killed
Verse 17 midwife saved the children because THEY FEARED GOD.

God's satisfaction is in that action.

But you have read the later discussion of Pharoah and midwife as an action that God was pleased with.

Read verse 21 and 17 together, you will get it.

THERE IS AN EMPHASIS OF THEY FEARED GOD in verse 17 and 21 which you have neglected. That's where your answer is.

To understand well,
Read verse 21 together with verse 17 you will get the context.

17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive
21 And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

God's action was premised on this. It's clear in the context.

They feared God and didn't kill, then God was pleased with it.

I guess this is clear?

Brilliant!

PastorM:


It's difficult to pack a lot into a 1-minute video

The supervisor DID NOT know.

1. Its not an issue if the job is being done and done well

2. The plan is possible because of their numbers. If they are fired due to redundancy then the plan goes to hell. Would you rather these people work full hours for the same work done?

kimco:


1. Its not an issue if the job is being done and done well

2. The plan is possible because of their numbers. If they are fired due to redundancy then the plan goes to hell. Would you rather these people work full hours for the same work done?

I think my video wasn't meant for people who live in Nigeria Our sense of morals differ. I rest on this matter. Have a blessed day.

LordReed:
LMAO! Read 17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live.

and then 19 The midwives answered Pharaoh, “Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive.”

How can you say there was no deception? The Hebrew midwives lied to the Pharaoh that they never observed the births in ver19 when ver17 says they did.

So shameful how you just choose to be deliberately lying.

Pharaoh knows the midwives didn't KILLED THE BOYS, so if the midwives lied to Pharaoh, how come Pharaoh still know that they spared the BOYS (plural)?

It's evident that you're the one who want to force deception into those verses.

BTW so you mean Hebrew midwives would disobey the Pharaoh this way and he would spare their lives, really?

So what is your point?

I never made the claim that atheists have a higher IQ than religious people but from these posts I do have a higher IQ than you.

I can see that!

Emusan:


So shameful how you just choose to be deliberately lying.

Pharaoh knows the midwives didn't KILLED THE BOYS, so if the midwives lied to Pharaoh, how come Pharaoh still know that they spared the BOYS (plural)?

It's evident that you're the one who want to force deception into those verses.



So what is your point?

The point is that the midwives absolved themselves by lying. They deceived the Pharaoh by telling him they weren't present for the births when they were. And of course the Pharaoh believed them or else he'd have had them executed or jailed. There is no forcing of anything, the thing is clearly written or you're just being obtuse.

I can see that!

Glad you can.

Ola17:


You are quite haughty.

When you calm yourself down to start reading me well and also asking question from a noble heart, you wont see haughtiness but truth and help.

LordReed:


Once again nothing you have written has addressed the simple fact that your god is kool with deception and uses it to his own ends. Instead you've run the gamut of all these other things, why would I need to address the things that don't address my point. You are the one beating about the bush. If you fail to address my point I have no obligation to respond to your strawmen.

Then it is obvious your standpoint is not from the scriptures but person opinion and decision irrespective of what you read or see from the bible. Honesty will mean to judge someone with what he said or wrote not judge by our own opinion.

But no issues, we all see differently whenever we hold personal opinion about things and people.

hupernikao:


Then it is obvious your standpoint is not from the scriptures but person opinion and decision irrespective of what you read or see from the bible. Honesty will mean to judge someone with what he said or wrote not judge by our own opinion.

But no issues, we all see differently whenever we hold personal opinion about things and people.

You can say whatever you like but what is written in the Bible is clear, your god uses deception to his own ends. Whatever excuse you give for why that is the case will not erase that simple fact. LoL.

LordReed:


You can say whatever you like but what is written in the Bible is clear, your god uses deception to his own ends. Whatever excuse you give for why that is the case will not erase that simple fact. LoL.

So we can conclude, that your personal opinion is what you hold but not Bible view.

Final.

hupernikao:



So we can conclude, that your personal opinion is what you hold but not Bible view.

Final.

Your personal opinion is to not hold your god responsible, you are very much welcome to that. However it won’t erase what is clearly written, your god uses deception for his own ends.