IYGEAL:


Never in the world of falacies have I seen one written with so much confidence.

Definition: (Fallacy) A statement or an argument based on a false or invalid inference. (Webster Dictionary)

I asked questions, used the word "How", many times, meaning l wanted the opinion of others.
A QUESTION, is not a Statement and therefore, cannot be a fallacy!
Seems you dont understand the use/meaning of the word "fallacy", in your statement.

And even if you find fallacies in there, you can do well to point them out, instead of this grand-standing.

ojeysky:


Cycle life is one thing, the performance one of the major other reason and remember that typical lifepo4 will still have 80% capacity after it's first cycle round. I have no comment on that particular second Life cells as it all depends on the usage of the initial user.... Some may still be in their initial cycle round sold as used. I have sold my used lifepo4 battery bank before with just about 200 to 300 cycles.

Thank you very much for your above response.
I am trying to grasp this as l dont understand it very well, if at all.

Does this mean that if for example, the number of Cycles (amount of time it can be recharged, after complete draining?) of a LiPo4 is say 5000 and a used / second Life one has been cycled say 3000 times in its first application at 20%, it will stiill function/perform same, as a battery of Cells Cycled, say just 1000 times?
Does this previous usage have any impact on the longevity (how long it lasts, before it packs up) of the battery in its new application, all things being equal?

Please, kindly explain what "initial cycle round" and "first cycle round" menas, so l dont mix things up the more.

Daboomb:


Thank you very much for your above response.
I am trying to grasp this as l dont understand it very well, if at all.

Does this mean that if for example, the number of Cycles (amount of time it can be recharged, after complete draining?) of a LiPo4 is say 5000 and a used / second Life one has been cycled say 3000 times in its first application at 20%, it will stiill function/perform same, as a battery of Cells Cycled, say just 1000 times?
Does this previous usage have any impact on the longevity (how long it lasts, before it packs up) of the battery in its new application, all things being equal?

Please, kindly explain what "initial cycle round" and "first cycle round" menas, so l dont mix things up the more.

Discharge and charge makes a cycle. If a cell is rated 5k cycle, it means that the 100% capacity will be available through that cycle periods, after the 5kcycle the cell will have 80% capacity left and that can go for some more cycles. So if you are able to pull close to a cell capacity then you know it's still in its first cycle life

[quote author=ojeysky post=107640144]

Discharge and charge makes a cycle. If a cell is rated 5k cycle, it means that the 100% capacity will be available through that cycle periods, after the 5kcycle the cell will have 80% capacity left and that can go for some more cycles. So if you are able to pull close to a call capacity then you know it's still in its first cycle life[/quote]

Thanks very much, especially for the above, it helps a lot.
God bless you.

If a cell is rated 5K cycle, it implies that the cell should not have lower than 80% of rated capacity before the 5K cycles are completed. It can have residual capacity in the range 100-80%

Below 80% capacity, a lithium battery is considered End of Life (EOL) but that does not make it bad or unusable. It is just no longer suitable for high demand applications. Such batteries however still have good value for money in home Solar storage especially when sold at scrap value with full disclosure.

ojeysky:


Discharge and charge makes a cycle. If a cell is rated 5k cycle, it means that the 100% capacity will be available through that cycle periods, after the 5kcycle the cell will have 80% capacity left and that can go for some more cycles. So if you are able to pull close to a call capacity then you know it's still in its first cycle life

Daboomb:


Good one from you there.
So, without the 'deception' of semantics, these "Second Life" Lithium batteries are USED, Second-Hand Batteries. Full Stop.

Now, if that is the case, my questions are: How do you guarantee or confirm the amount of Cycles left inside it, bearing in mind that the only reason we go for LiPo4 Cell batteries are because of its reputed 5000+ Cycles?

How do you TEST, that a Buyer is not being given a Used, second-life Cells, for the price of a New Ones, if a buyer requires New, grade A battery Cells.

It could well be that such Cells in a battery are closer to their "End of Life", than a "Second Life", without the new owner being aware, yet having paid top money for them!

I know you are a seller and l should not be asking you a question like that but l have the feeling you are a honest person and will always speak the truth.


Other Experienced/Expert/DIY RE proponents should please weigh-in on my question.
George_D
Ojeysky
Niyi
Trippledot
Valto
Earthrealm
Olopan
Ceaser
Dam5reey
McTrinity
And others whose name l cant remember now.
G

Your fears and reservations are without doubt valid. I also initially thought eWizard1's DIY battery packs are made with brand new Samsung 18650 cells until a few posts back where it became apparent that they are recycled cells. From the pictures, his packs are so neatly assembled in a fine and beautifully machined case that you will argue if you were told the batteries inside are not brand new but "second life" cells (to borrow the words of our friend).

New and reliable 18650 cells are hard to come by in the Nigerian space and even if you do come by it, it is likely to cost you an arm and a leg and still with the question of reliable quality. Even in the developed climes, DIY enthusiasts get by with recycled 18650s and other Li-ion form factors to build their battery packs. You Tube videos is replete with DIYers who source their cells as recycled on "battery hookup dot com" website. Jehu Garcia is one popular you tuber who used 18650s in a lot of ways including making packs for his volkswagen bus that he converted to electric vehicle. He used it in DIY power walls and roller skates. Our own dapsyra here used wafer-shaped Li-on cells to build his own pack and they seem to be very powerful and perform impressively (Li-ons are generally more powerful and are more energy dense than LifePO4, but the greater fire risk is its achille's heel).

Having said that, I want to assume that eWizard1's source for 18650s are the same primary source I get from - this is just an assumption since it seems to be the source of the many "second life" 18650s flying around - this source is MTN lumous. I was made to understand that lumous packs that develop fault after a few months of use are replaced for the user while the faulty returned ones are stored to be discarded. Now most of these lumous packs have only faulty electronics in which case their batteries are still fully intact and functional. They are then auctioned at a token. It seems this is the source of his cells. Although I still implore him for the sake of curious minds needing more disclosure to decide to patronise him, to mention the source of his cells in case my assumptions are wrong.

My experience with cells sourced from this primary point isn't bad at all. The least remaining capacity per cell I have gotten around 2700mah. Most times, I get a capacity reading of 2800mah to 2850mah (this around 95% remaining capacity) . A new unused 3000mah 18650 gives you around 2900 capacity test and each new one costs around 1200 naira. So if you can get a 2700mah caoacity Samsung INR cell for sub 250 naira, I don't think it's a bad deal.

I have been using 48v packs built from this for about 2 months and the experience isn't bad at all. I have LiFeP04 packs too but ventured into 18650 in addition because of its large energy density. I intend to up the packs to around 400ah in about a month's time. So until I'm able to clock one year, I won't be able to give an objective UX view of the "second life" cells. But for now, safe assumptions as I made above are what I can still offer.

Daboomb:


Good one from you there.
So, without the 'deception' of semantics, these "Second Life" Lithium batteries are USED, Second-Hand Batteries. Full Stop.

Now, if that is the case, my questions are: How do you guarantee or confirm the amount of Cycles left inside it, bearing in mind that the only reason we go for LiPo4 Cell batteries are because of its reputed 5000+ Cycles?

How do you TEST, that a Buyer is not being given a Used, second-life Cells, for the price of a New Ones, if a buyer requires New, grade A battery Cells.

It could well be that such Cells in a battery are closer to their "End of Life", than a "Second Life", without the new owner being aware, yet having paid top money for them!

I know you are a seller and l should not be asking you a question like that but l have the feeling you are a honest person and will always speak the truth.


Other Experienced/Expert/DIY RE proponents should please weigh-in on my question.
George_D
Ojeysky
Niyi
Trippledot
Valto
Earthrealm
Olopan
Ceaser
Dam5reey
McTrinity
And others whose name l cant remember now.
G

in addition to what others have said so far, you have to know that charge/discharge cycles is not an exact science.
a battery may be rated for 5000 cycles based on lab tests under standard conditions but in real world terms such
cells could actually put out 6000 or more cycles all depending on amount of current drawn per cycle/ length
of time. regardless of battery chemistry, this is a proven fact although lithium generally handles large draw down
currents better than other common battery technologies, e.g lead acid.
to answer your question, when it comes to second hand cells or batteries, you cannot totally eliminate the risk
of being saddled with almost depleted cells being traded as top grade. that is why the reputation of the seller
becomes key since a seller with a reputation to protect will not want to soil his name by selling junk just to make a
few bucks.

@Ojeysky, @Ceasar, @GeorgeD1, @dapsira:
I have learned a lot in a few hours about Lithium Cells, than l have learned in the past, if any!
I dont know how to express my appreciation to you guys other than to say you guys are Da-Real-boomb!

Gracias Amigos!

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Fapemz:
For those in need of power for small load like laptop, Tv, phones,fan and light. I have portable LiFePo4 battery that can satisfy your basics needs, can be easily carried around or stationary, can be charged by both solar and electricity from PHCN or Generator. Guaranteed to take the stress away and silence your generator. 0.806.5316.307

Hello everyone, i need help with a solar inverter system setup for a table top refrigerator, 15 bulbs, 2 fans, 1.5hp inverter AC, 50 inches smart tv, dstv decoder, iron, blending machine, toaster and sound system. Is a 3.5kva inverter 24volts achievable with a budget of 600k. Thanks

Paulfroshman:
Hello everyone, i need help with a solar inverter system setup for a table top refrigerator, 15 bulbs, 2 fans, 1.5hp inverter AC, 50 inches smart tv, dstv decoder, iron, blending machine, toaster and sound system. Is a 3.5kva inverter 24volts achievable with a budget of 600k. Thanks

How can I put it, No...

Paulfroshman:
Hello everyone, i need help with a solar inverter system setup for a table top refrigerator, 15 bulbs, 2 fans, 1.5hp inverter AC, 50 inches smart tv, dstv decoder, iron, blending machine, toaster and sound system. Is a 3.5kva inverter 24volts achievable with a budget of 600k. Thanks

with all u have listed, u need a 48v 5kva inverter system with good lithium batteries. up your budget to atleast 2.5million.

Paulfroshman:
Hello everyone, i need help with a solar inverter system setup for a table top refrigerator, 15 bulbs, 2 fans, 1.5hp inverter AC, 50 inches smart tv, dstv decoder, iron, blending machine, toaster and sound system. Is a 3.5kva inverter 24volts achievable with a budget of 600k. Thanks

It would be able to carry all comfortably if you know power management.
Just try not to switch all of them on at the same time.
Whatever it is you are doing make sure you are getting lithium ion phosphate cells.

samnaija:

How can I put it, No...

Thanks

Valto:
with all u have listed, u need a 48v 5kva inverter system with good lithium batteries. up your budget to atleast 2.5million.

Thanks for your input

luvlyoracle:
It would be able to carry all comfortably if you know power management.
Just try not to switch all of them on at the same time.
Whatever it is you are doing make sure you are getting lithium ion phosphate cells.

I really appreciate your response. my installer is proposing a setup which consists of Two (2) 12v 200ah AGM Batteries with 3.5kva inverter and Four (4) 200w solar panels. what do you think about this? Thanks in anticipation

Paulfroshman:


I really appreciate your response. my installer is proposing a setup which consists of Two (2) 12v 200ah AGM Batteries with 3.5kva inverter and Four (4) 200w solar panels. what do you think about this? Thanks in anticipation

Paulfroshman:
Hello everyone, i need help with a solar inverter system setup for a table top refrigerator, 15 bulbs, 2 fans, 1.5hp inverter AC, 50 inches smart tv, dstv decoder, iron, blending machine, toaster and sound system. Is a 3.5kva inverter 24volts achievable with a budget of 600k. Thanks

his quote is grossly inadequate if u plan to use the bolded.
remove the bolded items, and maybe either the
fans or the refrigerator, then u are good with that qoute.

Paulfroshman:


I really appreciate your response. my installer is proposing a setup which consists of Two (2) 12v 200ah AGM Batteries with 3.5kva inverter and Four (4) 200w solar panels. what do you think about this? Thanks in anticipation

It is either you did not tell your Installer about all these Appliances you intend to use or he does not know what he is doing.
Just be careful, before you are led into expenses you did not plan for or a situation where you dont get Value for the money spent.

Approximate values:
table top refrigerator = 150W
15 bulbs, (assume energy saving of 10W each) = 150W
2 fans = (2 x 55) = 110W
1.5hp inverter AC = 800W (not sure about this)
50 inches smart tv = 100W
dstv decoder = 25W
iron = 2300W
blending machine = 1800W
toaster = 2000W
Sound System = 75W

Approx Total = 7,510W!
Even a 5KVA Inverter will not allow you to switch on all these Appliances at once.
You will need an 8KVA Inverter.
To Power such Inverter, you will need at least 6000W of Panels or more, in day time (excluding Power needed to charge your batteries ).


Now, let us assume you decide not to Power all these Appliances at the same time.
Just putting on your iron, when your AC is on in the Living Room
Or just using your Toaster when the Iron is on
Or just using your Blender when your Toaster in on, etc
Your Inverter system will shut down, due to overload!

As to batteries, let us assume you want to have Power from 7pm - 5am (10hrs)
Let us say you want your Fridge, 5 External Security Bulbs, TV, Decoder and A.C on for just half of the night (5hrs)

That will be 1,125W x5hrs = 5,625Wh. (from 7pm - 12midnight).
For a 12V battery system, (a 48V System is what you actually need), your battery must be at least be able to produce 468.5 x2 (at 50% DoD)
= Approx 1000Ah.
That is 5Units of 200ah, 12V batteries.
If you want Power throughout the Night (12midnight - 5am), then you double that capacity

Just scale-down your Power needs, so it can fall within your budget.
Take out AC, Iron, Toaster, Blender (run those ones on Nepa) and you may be able to manage a small budget.

LiPo4 battery that will give you that Power sef, na gbeese.

Paulfroshman:


I really appreciate your response. my installer is proposing a setup which consists of Two (2) 12v 200ah AGM Batteries with 3.5kva inverter and Four (4) 200w solar panels. what do you think about this? Thanks in anticipation

It's a good setup but wont carry those loads. my advice get 4 more panels making a total of 8. Loads you can use when sun is at peak 12 and 3pm, briefly iron, pumping machine one after the other.
Your fridge from 9 to 5pm. Blender in between this time frame.
Television get energy saving type, watch in the later morning till evening.
Remember to get appliances that cosume less power like your fan for night sleep. In short you learn how to conserve energy .
Has for your ac , forget it. People will tell you lithium, inverter ac and all. It does not always end well. You go come back to normal ac in the end of the day. Get a mist fan or those cooling box if you must have ice block on your head. ...cheers. if money still dey you can add to the batteries also making it a total of 4 batteries. If not you are okay.
More batteries means more additional panels.

The fact that inverter gives u power does not mean that it will automatically replace PHCN. INVERTERS HAVE THEIR OWN LIMITATIONS. If u want to go beyond such limitations,then be ready to spend several millions to power higher appliances.

Any seller of DC submersible water pump, spec and cost is needed

dollarnaira:
The fact that inverter gives u power does not mean that it will automatically replace PHCN. INVERTERS HAVE THEIR OWN LIMITATIONS. If u want to go beyond such limitations,then be ready to spend several millions to power higher appliances.

Well said... Soup wey sweet na money kill am