Rosement:

I'm still waiting! Where are the philosophers on nairaland?

Rosement:

Thanks a lot for participating.

You are welcome And that answer relates to the known universe because theories points to multiverse.

MaxInDHouse:

I am Maximus one of Jehovah's Witnesses, i'm not a philosopher but a fully competent and completely equipped Bible student.
Would you like me to prove why i choose option 3 as an indisputable fact?

Thanks for participating. What is important is your option.

C.

Only a fool will say no one created the universe, or that the universes just exploded and became what we know of today.

There are intelligent signs everywhere for us to discern the truth...

Do we all agree that Option B is impossible. Only Option A and C is possible because logically, something that does not exist cannot create itself but if it has already existed prior to its creation, it can create other things or other aspects of itself.

So, it is either the universe has always existed or a creator existed before the universe and created the universe.

We are left with Option A and C. If you pick any of these options, you have to explain logically why you prefer that option to the other option. Please give your explanation without using Biblical principles.

Jokerman:
C.

Only a fool will say no one created the universe, or that the universes just exploded and became what we know of today.

There are intelligent signs everywhere for us to discern the truth...

Thanks for participating.

Rosement:

Thanks for participating. What is important is your option.

Rosement:
A. The universe does not need to be created because it has always existed.
B. The universe created itself.
C. The universe must have a creator because it cannot create itself.

A.

The Universe has always existed because existence has no beginning and end. All things in the universe, including we humans, have always existed in one form or another and even after death, they'll continue to exist in other forms.

A001:

A.

The Universe has always existed because existence has no beginning and end. All things in the universe, including we humans, have always existed in one form or another and even after death, they'll continue to exist in other forms.

Thanks for participating.

Rosement:
A. The universe does not need to be created because it has always existed.
B. The universe created itself.
C. The universe must have a creator because it cannot create itself.

I don't know as there's no evidence for any of these argument

Rosement:

Since scientists doesn't have a definite answer to the creation of the universe and they keep debating among themselves, we cannot rely on scientific theories but we can think of a logical answer ourselves. So which of these options, do you think is possible?

logic without evidence is unrealible. You can reach objective conclusions that may start a self-delusional mind frame.

The smartest way to learn is always be truthful to yourself that you don't know but you are going to find out instead of making stuffs up in the name of logic.

Rosement:
In classical antiquity, there was no real ancient analog of a modern scientist. Instead, philosophers engaged in the philosophical study of nature called natural philosophy, a precursor of natural science.

A lot of people have been debating theories and forming philosophers on this forum but now they are mute.

In a way, we are philosophers because
philosopher is a person who seeks wisdom or enlightenment : SCHOLAR, THINKER.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/philosopher

Classical antiquity couldn't even figure that the earth isn't flat with their logic.
That's what logic does, it makes sense objectively but can be misleading if there's no evidence to work with.
Logic works better when evidence to test it is available else you may create wrong inferences.

Jokerman:
C.

Only a fool will say no one created the universe, or that the universes just exploded and became what we know of today.

There are intelligent signs everywhere for us to discern the truth...

only a fool says things without evidence.
The universe aslo has all the trademark that nothing created it

Rosement:
Do we all agree that Option B is impossible. Only Option A and C is possible because logically, something that does not exist cannot create itself but if it has already existed prior to its creation, it can create other things or other aspects of itself.

So, it is either the universe has always existed or a creator existed before the universe and created the universe.

We are left with Option A and C. If you pick any of these options, you have to explain logically why you prefer that option to the other option. Please give your explanation without using Biblical principles.

If you think option B is not possible then you don't understand basic physics.
Things have been seen to come out of nothing in quantum physics. That's why I am telling you that you need evidence first and not solely logic.

We have tonnes of evidence that something can come from nothing in quantum physics. This is even a study niche to understand how the universe started

Workch:
If you think option B is not possible then you don't understand basic physics.
Things have been seen to come out of nothing in quantum physics. That's why I am telling you that you need evidence first and not solely logic.

We have tonnes of evidence that something can come from nothing in quantum physics. This is even a study niche to understand how the universe started

Thanks for participating. Which is your preferred option? Please simplify, are you picking Option B or you don't know the answer?

Rosement:

Thanks for participating. Which is your preferred option? Please simplify, are you picking Option B or you don't know the answer?

My option is not there.

I don't know

Workch:
My option is not there.

I don't know

Okay, thanks for participating.

These are the only possible options
A. The universe does not need to be created because it has always existed.
B. The universe created itself.
C. The universe must have a creator because it cannot create itself.

We cannot exclude Option B anymore because Workch explained that it is scientifically possible, so let's accept that any of the three options is correct but there is no other possible options aside from these ones.

Since some scientists accept that Option C is also possible. Why do some set of people on nairaland including Seun believe a creator cannot exist?

I created this tread to also learn. If you have a reason for believing Option C is impossible, please give your reasons. Some people keep asking that apart from Bible and Quran, what other evidence proofs that there is a creator?

Since Option C is scientifically possible, what are the evidence that proofs that there is no creator? What led to your conclusion. If you can't proof your claim, it means your claim is bias.

Rosement:
These are the only possible options
A. The universe does not need to be created because it has always existed.
B. The universe created itself.
C. The universe must have a creator because it cannot create itself.

If these are the only options then please quit dragging philosophy into it. The very essence of philosophy is born out of curiosity and a desire to find answers to major existential questions and dilemmas,keeping bias to a bare minimum. So,if you created this thread to actually "learn", then these shouldn't be the only options.

EmperorHarry:
If these are the only options then please quit dragging philosophy into it. The very essence of philosophy is born out of curiosity and a desire to find answers to major existential questions and dilemmas,keeping bias to a bare minimum. So,if you created this thread to actually "learn", then these shouldn't be the only options.

Thanks for participating.
I created this thread to share my knowledge and also learn. I only shared what I know, I feel it is either something is created or it has always existed. If you know other options, please share. Share your own philosophy.

Rosement:

Thanks for participating.
I created this thread to share my knowledge and also learn. I only shared what I know, I feel it is either something is created or it has always existed. If you know other options, please share. Share your own philosophy.

"I don't know" or "I don't know,yet" should be equally valid responses to your shared knowledge.Anyways, here's a few other options that don't quite fit into your model of what's possible or not.
1.This universe is a result of the destruction of a previous universe?
2.This universe is a result of the destruction or death of a higher dimension or being?
3.This universe is the byproduct of things happening in a higher dimension?

All these would be seemingly closer to your option 2,but not quite because these options propose that our universe was not directly created nor create itself like options 2&3 and did not always exist like in option 1.

EmperorHarry:
"I don't know" or "I don't know,yet" should be equally valid responses to your shared knowledge.Anyways, here's a few other options that don't quite fit into your model of what's possible or not.
1.This universe is a result of the destruction of a previous universe?
2.This universe is a result of the destruction or death of a higher dimension or being?
3.This universe is the byproduct of things happening in a higher dimension?

All these would be seemingly closer to your option 2,but not quite because these options propose that our universe was not directly created nor create itself like options 2&3 and did not always exist like in option 1.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
You are right the options you provided is similar to Option B, the difference is, it came from something that already existed prior to the time of its creation. I think it is also similar to Option A.
Those options I wrote simplifies any other existing options. It is just like saying, can or can't. All I did was simplify other options and make it easier to comprehend.

KnownUnknown:
The question itself is a leading question. A more valid philosophical question is how the universe came to be. The notion that it was “created” is myopic. Even if there is a creator, what makes you think you can fathom it. I think the biggest problem with religion and how it confuses its adherents is the geocentric nature of the mythologies i.e. “heaven and earth” with everything revolving around our “pale blue dot”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha00PdKdIJ0

There is nothing wrong with religion. I cannot choose for others but personally I pick Option C, I believe there is a Creator because the creation of the universe looks like a well thought out plan and some evidence are pointing to it.

I needed answers to my questions, that was what led to my search for the Creator.
Who am I? Why am I here? How did I get here? Where did I come from? What is the purpose of my existence? Where am I going? How was I made and how am I functioning? Who is behind the intelligence of all that is in the universe?

I discovered I am part of the creator's plan, so I was eager to know His reason for creating me.

If I believe there is a Creator and I ignore Him, it means I am ungrateful and narrow-minded. He gave life to me as a gift without me even requesting for it, He planned, designed and created this great and lovely universe for our convenience.

Each time, I wake up to see my love ones, I am always very grateful to the Creator. I am still alive dreaming of tomorrow and trying to achieve great things. I am setting goals and planning for the future and I am able to work hard to secure a future for myself and my unborn children, thanks to Him. Even if He refuse to step forward to take the credit, I would have personally searched for Him to show Him my gratitude.

Rosement:


There is nothing wrong with religion. I cannot choose for others but personally I pick Option C, I believe there is a Creator because the creation of the universe looks like a well thought out plan and some evidence are pointing to it.

I needed answers to my questions, that was what led to my search for the Creator.
Who am I? Why am I here? How did I get here? Where did I come from? What is the purpose of my existence? Where am I going? How was I made and how am I functioning? Who is behind the intelligence of all that is in the universe?

I discovered I am part of the creator's plan, so I was eager to know His reason for creating me.

If I believe there is a Creator and I ignore Him, it means I am ungrateful and narrow-minded. He gave life to me as a gift without me even requesting for it, He planned, designed and created this great and lovely universe for our convenience.

Each time, I wake up to see my love ones, I am always very grateful to the Creator. I am still alive dreaming of tomorrow and trying to achieve great things. I am setting goals and planning for the future and I am able to work hard to secure a future for myself and my unborn children, thanks to Him. Even if He refuse to step forward to take the credit, I would have personally searched for Him to show Him my gratitude.

something is wrong with religion.
Religion is a fallacy of appealing to ignorance in this regard. It's a fallacy of appealing to ignorance in the sense that, it assumes that because we have don't have the answer to a specific phenomenon, there havd to be a supernatural being responsible for it.
In philosophy and logic, this kind of reasoning s flawed and unacceptable. The best philosophical stand point is to say "we don't know yet". By doing this, you avoid every form of fallacies and give room for curiosity to thrive.

Workch:
something is wrong with religion.
Religion is a fallacy of appealing to ignorance in this regard. It's a fallacy of appealing to ignorance in the sense that, it assumes that because we have don't have the answer to a specific phenomenon, there havd to be a supernatural being responsible for it.
In philosophy and logic, this kind of reasoning s flawed and unacceptable. The best philosophical stand point is to say "we don't know yet". By doing this, you avoid every form of fallacies and give room for curiosity to thrive.

There is a difference between philosophy and science. Philosophy generates knowledge through thinking but science generates knowledge by observing and experimenting. Philosophy is not as deep as science, it is not capable of providing definite answers, we can only use philosophy to provide new ideas and questions for us to ponder over. For me, science has failed.

Science started a very long time ago, a lot of my ancestors met science but till today scientists are yet to conclude, I cannot keep waiting till I am out of this world. Since those three options have been proving to be possible by scientists, what is wrong with picking the one I am convinced is right? Option C cannot hurt me, whether it is right or not.

Freedom of decision is one of those things that made this world interesting. What makes me happy, might not make you happy because our choices are different and we don't think or act the same way. If religion is banned today, a lot of people might become unhappy and get tired of life.

God is the source of happiness for some of us. If religion is causing harm to me or making me unhappy, nobody will tell me before I reject it, God has helped me a lot. If you don't believe in religion, you don't have to accept it but please don't call it fallacy. If you don't like my food, instead of putting sand in it for me, go and eat your own food.

Is there a punishment for accepting God or is it a crime? If ignorance is the problem? Then allow me to be ignorant because this type of ignorance gives happiness and hope and it is very harmless. I don't even need too much knowledge because I am still doing to die one day and those knowledge will be worthless, what matters is my happiness. If everybody decides to reject God, what good will that do?

Rosement:

There is a difference between philosophy and science. Philosophy generates knowledge through thinking but science generates knowledge by observing and experimenting. Philosophy is not as deep as science, it is not capable of providing definite answers, we can only use philosophy to provide new ideas and questions for us to ponder over. For me, science has failed.

Science started a very long time ago, a lot of my ancestors met science but till today scientists are yet to conclude, I cannot keep waiting till I am out of this world. Since those three options have been proving to be possible by scientists, what is wrong with picking the one I am convinced is right? Option C cannot hurt me, whether it is right or not.

Freedom of decision is one of those things that made this world interesting. What makes me happy, might not make you happy because our choices are different and we don't think or act the same way. If religion is banned today, a lot of people might become unhappy and get tired of life.

God is the source of happiness for some of us. If religion is causing harm to me or making me unhappy, nobody will tell me before I reject it, God has helped me a lot. If you don't believe in religion, you don't have to accept it but please don't call it fallacy. If you don't like my food, instead of putting sand in it for me, go and eat your own food.

Is there a punishment for accepting God or is it a crime? If ignorance is the problem? Then allow me to be ignorant because this type of ignorance gives happiness and hope and it is very harmless. I don't even need too much knowledge because I am still doing to die one day and those knowledge will be worthless, what matters is my happiness. If everybody decides to reject God, what good will that do?

I am philosophically telling that religion is a fallacy of ad ignoratiam (appealing to ignorance). I have not even brought science here.

Religion peddles the premise: since we can't explain this hence God. It's a fallacy in philosophy, because we don't know yet doesn't mean that a god is responsible.
I'm not telling you now to appeal to ignorance but if you get to a renowned logical class, you will realize that "God did it" is fallacious. Religion is "God of the gaps" fallacy and that's why it doesn't require sound logic for you to uphold religion. You only need faith because relgion defies logic and reason.

Rosement:


There is nothing wrong with religion. I cannot choose for others but personally I pick Option C, I believe there is a Creator because the creation of the universe looks like a well thought out plan and some evidence are pointing to it.

What is the evidence you speak of?

Jokerman:
C.

Only a fool will say no one created the universe, or that the universes just exploded and became what we know of today.

There are intelligent signs everywhere for us to discern the truth...

So what created the creator?

Workch:
Classical antiquity couldn't even figure that the earth isn't flat with their logic.

This is false.

Many ancients knew the Earth was a sphere
Pythagoras, Plato, Aristotle, Achimedes, all taught that the Earth was a sphere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth#History.

https://www.olivehackney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Year-5-Science-Spherical-Bodies-Shape-of-the-Earth-Evidence-Cards.pdf

It was so well known that even the Bible alludes to it.

That's what logic does, it makes sense objectively but can be misleading if there's no evidence to work with.
Logic works better when evidence to test it is available else you may create wrong inferences.

All logic must have a reference point. There is no logic in a vacuum.

Workch:

We have tonnes of evidence that something can come from nothing in quantum physics.

This is also false. There is no such evidence in quantum physics (not to speak of "tonnes of evidence" ) because the prime example which is used to defend this assumption is that of virtual particles in a quantum vacuum.

It is false, and fails because there is no perfect vacuum observed anywhere and the said vacuums contain law gaseous pressure, thus it is wrong to say that the so called virtual particles emerge from "nothing."