wirinet:


He was not asked to overturn the elections. He was only required to acknowledge the fake alternate electors and refer the matter back to the states, with the excuse that the states presented 2 sets of electors. All Trump wanted was for Pence not to ratify the elections on January 6th. If pence did not ratify the election that day, then the US would have been in a constitutional crisis. Trump just wanted to create chaos to prevent Biden from being ratified.

sanpipita:


Trump would have only caused chaos not constitutional crisis, there only one set of electors each state, which has passed through different processes of certification by approved authorities, Trump's fake electors didn't go through these processes and therefore can't stand, aside chaos I didn't understand the game he was playing though I have fear things like this bring down democracy. he might have failed but also might have created a template for someone crazier than him to try

zendi:
Woketopia is the only dystopia in which a harmless sitting president, with neither military backing nor even a feather as weapon, is accused of making coup against an electoral candidate.

Election contesting/disputing is not insurrection or coupmaking.

feedthenation:
Exclusive: Newly obtained records show Trump and Jim Jordan spoke at length on morning of January 6

The House select committee investigating the Capitol insurrection is now in possession of White House records that provide new details about a phone call Donald Trump made to Republican Rep. Jim Jordan on January 6, 2021 -- as the investigation drills down on the former President's communications that day and questions have long swirled around calls between him and lawmakers.

Two sources who have reviewed the call records tell CNN that Trump spoke on the phone at the White House residence with Jordan for 10 minutes on the morning of January 6. That afternoon, Jordan took to the House floor to object to the certification of President Joe Biden's Electoral College win, and pro-Trump supporters attacked the US Capitol.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/04/politics/jim-jordan-trump-january-6/index.html

zendi:
Woketopia is the only dystopia in which a harmless sitting president, with neither military backing nor even a feather as weapon, is accused of making coup against an electoral candidate.

Election contesting/disputing is not insurrection or coupmaking.

DeepSight:


Thanks for this reasoned response ... I may respond in detail later as I am on the road. But for now you really have to bear in mind that among the "complex social issues" which you raise is the very real "complex" issue that resisting IDs will rightly be seen by many as a desire to rig elections.

IDs are used for virtually everything. Banking. Flying. Even to have an alcoholic drink. How much more to choose decision makers over the future.

There cannot really be any sound argument against IDs. Note that rather than present one, you merely said it's a complex matter. That's a weak response. You should get down to the exact complexities and show what's problematic with it.

DeepSight:


Thanks for this reasoned response ... I may respond in detail later as I am on the road. But for now you really have to bear in mind that among the "complex social issues" which you raise is the very real "complex" issue that resisting IDs will rightly be seen by many as a desire to rig elections.

IDs are used for virtually everything. Banking. Flying. Even to have an alcoholic drink. How much more to choose decision makers over the future.

There cannot really be any sound argument against IDs. Note that rather than present one, you merely said it's a complex matter. That's a weak response. You should get down to the exact complexities and show what's problematic with it.

raumdeuter:


Add that you need a govt issued ID to drive, rent, get married. Or should the officer marrying you and your wife just take your word for it that you are John Smith?

A govt issued Photo ID is simply to tie your name to your face. Like would be required for most activities. Why will anyone without fraudulent motive be against that?

If a bank says they gave out your money to someone because he said his name was Deepsight without any form of govt issued Identification tying his face to the name Deepsight, Will that be acceptable to anyone?

Basically you just need to show up at polling station and say you are James Brown without any form of govt issued ID and voila you get to vote

zendi:
Woketopia is the only dystopia in which a harmless sitting president, with neither military backing nor even a feather as weapon, is accused of making coup against an electoral candidate.

Election contesting/disputing is not insurrection or coupmaking.

Konkoja:


Use of PVC for election in Nigeria only confirms backwardness of Nigeria. Even with PVC, elections are still rigged. Right?

The issue of photo ID is not about leaning left or right. It is mainly whether it disadvantages a group or groups in the society. Put differently, any policy that disproportionately affect a group for whatever reason (beyond election), without mitigation, is discriminatory. Any policymaker in developed countries knows this. Please, stop using Nigeria as a Yardstick of a normal and functional society.

Proponents of photo ID use for election present it as if its the only means of verification when in actual fact one's identity has been verified even before registration. You can ask why 'use of photo ID will disadvantage a group or certain groups? After all it is only ID? Absolutely, that is why it is a complex social issue. But, does that make it a non-issue? Absolutely not! I personally would wish everyone has valid photo ID because I have plenty. But, I also know that is me interpretating the society through my lens to the world.

Let me ask you, why is there absentee voting? Why is there mail balloting? Should everyone not be able to cast their votes on election day?
Government could have said if you can't physically cast your vote, then nothing for you. How would those working away, the sick etc vote? Hence, inclusion and adjustment to accommodate those in these category.

Broadly, state (in a democracy) should be seen to promote increase participation across board. At least, we can agree on this!

ono:


Hmnn...They're here. Election is around the corner and they need to make money. Manipulative, mind-twisting and coercive. Evil, yet subtle. You can deceive only those whose mind have been blinded to the truth. Worry not, people are majorly wiser now. They know the truth!

gambojimeta:
Voter ID Laws Deprive Many Americans of the Right to Vote

Millions of Americans Lack ID. 11% of U.S. citizens – or more than 21 million Americans – do not have government-issued photo identification.

Obtaining ID Costs Money. Even if ID is offered for free, voters must incur numerous costs (such as paying for birth certificates) to apply for a government-issued ID.

Underlying documents required to obtain ID cost money, a significant expense for lower-income Americans. The combined cost of document fees, travel expenses and waiting time are estimated to range from $75 to $175.2

The travel required is often a major burden on people with disabilities, the elderly, or those in rural areas without access to a car or public transportation. In Texas, some people in rural areas must travel approximately 170 miles to reach the nearest ID office.

Voter ID Laws Reduce Voter Turnout. A 2014 GAO study found that strict photo ID laws reduce turnout by 2-3 percentage points, which can translate into tens of thousands of votes lost in a single state.

armyofone:
Well, there is a whole lot of time. People should get the ID required so that nobody will prevent them from their voting right. Talk with your friends, church etc to take you to get the ID.

zendi:
Woketopia is the only dystopia in which a harmless sitting president, with neither military backing nor even a feather as weapon, is accused of making coup against an electoral candidate.

Election contesting/disputing is not insurrection or coupmaking.

Tdotbluejays:

This thread still dey alive?

The truckers are just a few Karen that are mad because Canada took after the US to bring in mandates for truckers. I said a few Karen truckers because almost 90% of truckers are fully vaccinated. The Canadian truckers association has condemned the convoy and called the protest an embarrassment to their industry. Same as their American counterpart. There are other ways of resolving issues instead of causing inconvenience to other road users.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-trucking-alliance-condemns-protests-by-unvaccinated-truckers

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/embarrassment-for-the-industry-not-all-truckers-support-the-freedom-convoy-1.5757952

I do not agree with the truckers mandates, but it is what it is.

In addition, they are just being overhyped by the Cons. They are just a few hundreds and not thousand being parotted on social media account of conservative politicians. Not many people I know take them serious except one religious fanatic lady from my church who joined a trucker friend to make the trip to Ottawa.


As per Trudeau is going? I do not see this happening soon. I predict he is going to get stronger in the next election, even though I voted Con in the last election.

You know why?

1. The conservatives are divided. Votes are being split between the New mad Max's party i.e. PPC - People's Party of Canada (far right) and the Conservative party of Canada. So many seats were lost in the last election for this reason. Same way Alberta (Texas of the North) lost an election to the NDP a few years ago. Votes were divided between the progressive conservative and the wild rose party. NDP had a smooth sail to victory back then.

2. The Cons politicians (idiots) just shot themselves in the foot by aligning with the Karen truckers (minority). Now that some of the truckers have allowed stupid people on their convoy. You know those calling for a January 6 events type in Canada, those flying the Confederate flags on their trucks, those flying Canadian flags upside down. Those wearing the yellow Star of David e.t.c. The Cons have now started to defend themselves on TV, but it's too late, the Liberal, NDP, Bloc Quebecois and other parties will use this to their advantage in the next election.

Those pesky Canadians, one of them just made Spotify lose 4 Billion Dollars.

basilico:


Salford from Canada. Is this protest a right wing thing? Nah don't think so
Seems like protests are sprouting all Finland is laying grounds for a massive protest soon.
I've seen videos of these guys with portable potties, propane cylinders and even cranes. These guys live on the roads, they can be there for the long haul.
I also saw GoFundMe stopped receiving their donations and will not fwd them to the truckers . That's the embodiment of tyranny.

Wonder why leaders forget a simple history lesson that every regime comes to an end,. Sometimes with guillotines.

All over Canada ordinary people are protesting , at least I've seen convoys in Toronto and Edmonton . What do they all want. An end to mandates.
Blackface Trudeau wants them vaxxed so they can get covid like he did.

Guys on horseback are also in attendance.
White supremacists to you I presum

wirinet:


Inspiring your supporters to disrupt a constitutional election process of ratifying elections already ratified at district level, state level (both by executive and legislative) and national level is not contesting/disputing an election, it's an insurrection/coup. Contesting/disputing is done at the courts and not with jungle justice. Else we all close the courts and resort to jungle justice.

Tdotbluejays:

Guess what, Trudeau is having a laugh and cares less as we speak. The mandates are majorly provincial.

The protest so far has sealed the fate of the Conservatives in Canada. The Liberal are now guaranteed to govern for atleast another 10 years.

Canada is a very very Liberal country. Videos of the few Conservative politicians that associated themselves with the protest will be played over and over again along the Nazi Swastika, Confederate flags upside down Canadian flag, burning of the Canadian flag, peeing on war memorials, bullying people wearing mask, pooping on people's pouch and many more vices.

The protest has consumed one of their own already, the leader of the Conservative party of Canada (Erin O'tool) has been kicked out for an Interim leader. The party is currently in a mess.

Doug ford, the Conservative governor of Ontario has condemned the protest and labeled it as an occupation. Same as the Conservative governor of Alberta.

The Ottawa police has classified some of the activities as illegal. Hence, GoFundMe had no choice than to cancel the contributions and offer refunds

Those you see in the protest are what? Loud minority.

The organizers of the protest are well known far right activist. Pat king has a video about the great replacement about how whites have superior bloodlines.
Great replacement video:
https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1159997274900041729?t=gmQ3q-LNTCCXfBrkUaXKTg&s=19

It is now glaring that the protest was not about mandate but just your regular anti-vaxx protest similar to that we have seen in Europe.

Omicron just peaked and we expect to see a decline in hospital admission. Mandates would eventually go when our hospitals can handle the influx of patients sick with Covid. Common sense.

PS..there are already class action lawsuits popping up here and there against the far-right organizers of the protest. They are in for a long ride when the dust settles.

I support the Police. I support Law and Order.

gambojimeta:

[s]Ya ah talk Fram ah prifilege angles. Ya foter ID Isa just ONE out ofu a long lists

Pick ones andi helep ya community ta overcome barriers especialllies da illetrates. Jus ah make sure ya Isa understandin da rules befor ya Isa helep so ya Isa nat end up Ina jail[/s]

kikikikikikiki

Ibime:


Umudike is the only dystopia where a career thief walks around dishing out opinions like the above

Ibime:


Umudike is the only dystopia where a career thief walks around dishing out opinions like the above

armyofone:
Well, there is a whole lot of time. People should get the ID required so that nobody will prevent them from their voting right. Talk with your friends, church etc to take you to get the ID.

DeepSight:


Thanks for this reasoned response ... I may respond in detail later as I am on the road. But for now you really have to bear in mind that among the "complex social issues" which you raise is the very real "complex" issue that resisting IDs will rightly be seen by many as a desire to rig elections.

IDs are used for virtually everything. Banking. Flying. Even to have an alcoholic drink. How much more to choose decision makers over the future.

There cannot really be any sound argument against IDs. Note that rather than present one, you merely said it's a complex matter. That's a weak response. You should get down to the exact complexities and show what's problematic with it.

Konkoja:


Those pushing for use of photo ID said photo ID will be issued free of charge in County or Council offices. So, that should solve it! Not quite!

Because, I know no one size fits all (complexity).

Some will do everything not to deal with government or anything official - lots of them in the US and UK (Gypsy travellers are a good example). Another, group are those who don't trust government, either as a result of historical or current real or perceived injustices. (You will find more Black and other minority groups).

The question then is should people with little or no trust in government be allowed or encouraged to take part in election process? Well, the answer to that is what come first - chicken or egg?

By the way, why fix what is not broken?

Konkoja:


Let's lay down some basics which should help explain the issues with use of photo ID for elections.
1. Try not to see issues through Nigerian perspective. Most developed countries have databases through birth, naturalisation, tax, social welfare systems etc. No one single person registered to vote has not been verified and ID confirmed. Ever wondered, for example, when there is an attacked/accident etc. how quickly victims and perpetrators are identified?
2. You asserted ID is virtually used for virtually everything. I agree totally. But, proof of ID and photo ID are not the same. Photo ID is just one of many means to proof ones ID.
3. I can only try to explain complexities of Social issues on why getting photo ID (as simple as it sounds) could disadvantage one group within society more than others. For example, how do you explain two children from the same family, trained the same way, but have contrasting outcomes in life? Life is not binary, there is a lot shrouded in between - greyed out.

My line of work (in the UK) requires peoples proof of identity. I can tell you some people have never had photo ID. They proof their Identity by birth certificate and official government letter addressed to them such as NINO or DWP letters. They will not travel outside their country - no need for passport. They will never drive, so why driving licence? Millions of people live on the fringes, it does not in anyway unqualify them as citizens of the country. This is what I want you to see.
Even in Nigeria, nomadic education was created to meet educational needs of the Fulanis. That is how society should work - catering for everyone. Not, because I can do it, then everyone should be able to do same.

In some countries mostly in the EU, national ID system is automatic. And they use it for a lot of activities - travel, health care etc. So, the use of photo ID for election in those countries is not a big deal. Its been part and parcel of their system. But that is not the case in the UK and USA. More than ten years ago, I recall, UK Labour government wanted to introduce a national ID system, it was roundly rejected because it was seen as intrusive. I am sure, Americans will also reject such scheme.

Those pushing for use of photo ID said photo ID will be issued free of charge in County or Council offices. So, that should solve it! Not quite! Because, I know no one size fits all (complexity). Some will do everything not to deal with government or anything official - lots of them in the US and UK (Gypsy travellers are a good example). Another, group are those who don't trust government, either as a result of historical or current real or perceived injustices. (You will find more Black and other minority groups).

The question then is should people with little or no trust in government be allowed or encouraged to take part in election process? Well, the answer to that is what come first - chicken or egg?

Personally, I am OK with any form of ID for election. Would use of photo ID disproportionately affect certain groups? Absolutely YES!

My initial post which you reacted to, was my response to a clown who, as usual, dump a white supremacy talking point on this issue without any iota of reasoning.

By the way, why fix what is not broken? How many people have been caught with identity theft at elections because of no photo ID? Claiming to be Joe Bloke whilst they are actually John James? (Again, don't look at it though the lens of what happens in Nigeria).

All the best in your quest for knowledge and information on complexities of society.