Igboid:
Nope. The Nubians are a highly organized people capable of great technological and artistic feats.
Ijaws lack these two traits. They were not good in technology ( no metallurgy, construction, etc skills) and arts( no known Ijaw arts), the ones they claim are the Ibibio arts of proto Ibibiod people like Andoni, Ogbia, Abureni, Obulom, and proto Edo people like Udekeme, Engenni and Epie-Attisa.
The real and not Political Ijaw people in Kolokuma Opokuma homeland, are not known for another productive venture beyond rudimentary fishing.

In conclusion. The Ijaws cannot be Nubians.

Same way you said no historical mention of Ijos anywhere until you I presented them to you.If I show you Ijo arts now,you'll ascribe it to other tribes like you've just done to diminish our achievements.

Keep fooling yourself.

mrvitalis:

50% Igbo 50% ijaw

Oh nice.

Of the Ijos Dr. Talbot wrote:

"The population of (Southern Nigeria) is divided into three main groups: Sudanese, Semi-Bantu and Bantu... The Sudanese occupy west and central portions of the country. The most important of their tribes are the Yoruba, Edo-speaking people, the Ijaw, who lived in the Niger Delta, and the Ibo who inhabit the regions between the Niger and the Cross Rivers. . .The most ancient of all are the Ijaws, descendants perhaps of the earliest Negroes who penetrated the West Africa forest"

The linguist Prof. Key Williamson wrote:
". . .Ijoid is highly differentiated from all its neighbors; it is spoken only within the delta. A long period of differentiation from its neighbors must have taken place, and in considerable isolation. It is therefore highly likely that it took place within the Delta. We may assume that the ancestors of the Ijoid moved into Delta at least 7000 years ago and lived in sufficient isolation from their neighbors to develop considerable changes in their own language and remain unaffected by the changes influencing those neighbors"

ccAlabo7876

mrvitalis:

50% Igbo 50% ijaw

Can i see the proof please.

SlayerForever:
Ijaw keep claiming the word Oru but yet they have no tangible explanation as regards the term Oru.

Let me tell you what I think. I think the Orus were actually Riverine Igbos that were in existence from the beginning of the Igbo race. Oru is more evenly spread and established across Igbo society that in Ijaw society. Oru appears a foreign concept in ijaw origin.

The Oru would be joined by the Ijaw people in a migration much later, and over generations the two became thoroughly mixed. Hence, Ijaw superimposed or more probably eroded the practices of the riverine Oru Igbos they came upon, leaving only the name Oru as survivor from that era, and from then the ijaw we know today continued in existence.

That is my explanation of Oru's awkward existence in Ijaw today.

The fool said he thinks � � �

JANK23H:

Same way you said no historical mention of Ijos anywhere until you I presented them to you.If I show you Ijo arts now,you'll ascribe it to other tribes like you've just done to diminish our achievements.

Keep fooling yourself.

What?

I said no historical mention of Ijaw in Bonny, and you never provided any evidence to prove that.
We all knew that the teeth filling Jos men terrorized Waters in and around Bonny, but were never recorded as inhabitants of Bonny.

Igboid:


What?

I said no historical mention of Ijaw in Bonny, and you never provided any evidence to prove that.
We all knew that the teeth filling Jos men terrorized Waters in and around Bonny, but were never recorded as inhabitants of Bonny.

Mhen!

Go rest with that recycled bullshi.t!

JANK23H:
Of the Ijos Dr. Talbot wrote:

"The population of (Southern Nigeria) is divided into three main groups: Sudanese, Semi-Bantu and Bantu... The Sudanese occupy west and central portions of the country. The most important of their tribes are the Yoruba, Edo-speaking people, the Ijaw, who lived in the Niger Delta, and the Ibo who inhabit the regions between the Niger and the Cross Rivers. . .The most ancient of all are the Ijaws, descendants perhaps of the earliest Negroes who penetrated the West Africa forest"

The linguist Prof. Key Williamson wrote:
". . .Ijoid is highly differentiated from all its neighbors; it is spoken only within the delta. A long period of differentiation from its neighbors must have taken place, and in considerable isolation. It is therefore highly likely that it took place within the Delta. We may assume that the ancestors of the Ijoid moved into Delta at least 7000 years ago and lived in sufficient isolation from their neighbors to develop considerable changes in their own language and remain unaffected by the changes influencing those neighbors"

ccAlabo7876

What page of Talbot book did he write that.
I have the book available with me and I'm still looking for the part where he wrote that.

This is what Talbot wrote.
Notice he attached "Great" to Igbo!

Talbot even finished Ijaw in his book.
He straight up noted that Engenni, Abua, Odual, Degema, are not Ijaw people.
He quickly linked Engenni and co to Isoko(Edoid) and Degema/Abua to Efiks ( Ibibiod).

You just scored an own goal bro.
I will now use this Talbot book and finish you.

By the way, Talbot still quoted Captain Crow that give you lots shivers when it comes to Bonny Igbo origin.

On Engenni and Degema Edoid origin and language by Talbot.
Never in history were these people counted as Ijaws.

Abua linked to Efiks and Cross River tribes.

History is sweet o

Igboid:
This is what Talbot wrote.
Notice he attached "Great" to Igbo!

The peoples of Southern Nigeria by P A Talbot.1926

Igboid:
Talbot even finished Ijaw in his book.
He straight up noted that Engenni, Abua, Odual, Degema, are not Ijaw people.
He quickly linked Engenni and co to Isoko(Edoid) and Degema/Abua to Efiks ( Ibibiod).

You just scored an own goal bro.
I will now use this Talbot book and finish you.

By the way, Talbot still quoted Captain Crow that give you lots shivers when it comes to Bonny Igbo origin.

Stop jumping all over the place

Igboid:


What?

I said no historical mention of Ijaw in Bonny, and you never provided any evidence to prove that.
We all knew that the teeth filling Jos men terrorized Waters in and around Bonny, but were never recorded as inhabitants of Bonny.

Notes on the Ibo country and the Ibo People, Southern Nigeria by George Basden,Pg 243

Alabo7978
Putinthebutt

JANK23H:

Notes on the Ibo country and the Ibo People, Southern Nigeria by George Basden,Pg 243

Alabo7978
Putinthebutt

Nice one JANK23H
Igboid howfar na... You got what you wanted abi?

JANK23H:

It's jealousy Alabo.They think so highly of themselves that they wouldn't accept that some other ethnicities are/did greater things than they've done.

Similar way whites stole the achievement of some black people, simple because they can't accept that a black man can do anything great.Hence a lot of black history was wiped out and some revised to their favour.

As for your thread,I can't speak authoritatively on our link to ancient Egypt.What I do know is that several European scholars, especially Portuguese and Dutch have described the Ijos as one of the most ancient tribes in Africa.

You're on point bro, but I have believed the account of deities dropping from the sky as accounted in the Bible, book of Enoch, book of jubilee, sacred texts and so many ancient manuscript.

Even african oral tradition spoke of people who dropped from the sky.
The Bible call them fallen angels or nephilim, and since they dropped during the days of Noah, and abrahamic period,, I am thinking it wasn't long they were casted down that people migrated to the area.
All accounts states and proves life to begin somewhere around the East and then people spread out, so we being very ancient, it is evident we came from those region.
Look at our carvings, look at the worship of Orus, look at the affinity to the delta's.

There's a researcher who claimed to have linked close to a thousand of our words to the medu neter of kemet(Egypt)

I respected his decision on wanting to publish and not letting anyone to get the information prior to publishing.

Alabo7978:

Nice one JANK23H
Igboid howfar na... You got what you wanted abi?

I want to read how he'll spin this one.

SlayerForever:




Here's exactly what he wrote :
From the part of the river nun up till this point Taylor creek, the country on either side is called Oru. The people are of the same tribe of those who inhabit the tract of the country up on to the RIO fermoso where however they are called Ejo or ojo by which name they are known at aboh, brass and Bonny,

This two statements actually show there's a slight distinction between the Oru and the Jos of the Fermosa. Mind you Brass where you come, according to that statement called the people of the Fermosa Ijaw while those in the nun were called Oru. They carefully kept a separate name for the people in the Fermosa which they called Ejo. Can you clearly see the distinction?

That Baikie said "is of the same tribe" is likely due to acculturation. That's why that distinction of Oru and Ejo was an important addition.

No.

The Brits traded only where they had interest, and it was only in that place they were concerned about (Bonny, brass, calabari) that was why they didn't regard or care about the other ijoid clans.
So what baikie was trying to say was that he had come to realise they share the same dialect with slight difference.

Do you now understand?

It was also during the time they wanted to bring the goodnews, that John Clarke had to now pay attention to our other brothers they called JO MEN, he then realized they actually spoke similar Language, that gave rise to following expeditions and so it was finally known that the Oru or ijoid Language was something wide and huge.

Alabo7978:

You're on point bro, but I have believed the account of deities dropping from the sky as accounted in the Bible, book of Enoch, book of jubilee, sacred texts and so many ancient manuscript.

Even african oral tradition spoke of people who dropped from the sky.
The Bible call them fallen angels or nephilim, and since they dropped during the days of Noah, and abrahamic period,, I am thinking it wasn't long they were casted down that people migrated to the area.
All accounts states and proves life to begin somewhere around the East and then people spread out, so we being very ancient, it is evident we came from those region.
Look at our carvings, look at the worship of Orus, look at the affinity to the delta's.

There's a researcher who claimed to have linked close to a thousand of our words to the medu neter of kemet(Egypt)

I respected his decision on wanting to publish and not letting anyone to get the information prior to publishing.

I do agree with you,but in science nephilims and angels can not be proven.

The accounts as to the migration from Eygpt did posit that the migration was from the Upper Nile to Lake Chad and through the waters to the Niger Delta.Again there isn't any concrete proof.

JANK23H:

The peoples of Southern Nigeria by P A Talbot.1926

Do you understand the meaning of the word "Perhaps" ?
Talbot was making an isolated guess there, not founded on any oral or scientific research, hence the use of the word "Perhaps".

Alabo7978:

No.

The Brits traded only where they had interest, and it was only in that place they were concerned about (Bonny, brass, calabari) that was why they didn't regard or care about the other ijoid clans.
So what baikie was trying to say was that he had come to realise they share the same dialect with slight difference.

Do you now understand?

It was also during the time they wanted to bring the goodnews, that John Clarke had to now pay attention to our other brothers they called JO MEN, he then realized they actually spoke similar Language, that gave rise to following expeditions and so it was finally known that the Oru or ijoid Language was something wide and huge.

On what basis did you come to this conclusion?

Igboid:


Do you understand the meaning of the word "Perhaps" ?
Talbot was making an isolated guess there, not founded on any oral or scientific research, hence the use of the word "Perhaps".

Just like some of your excerpts have also "perhaped".Slayerforever even when on to "think".

Since your new preoccupation is to learn about Ijo history, Google these:

Professor J.S, Coleman in his book titled Nigeria: Background to Nationalism (Los Angeles, 1963, p. 28) describes the Ijaws as "perhaps the most ancient in West Africa whose Language has little or no affinity with any other in Nigeria ". In similar vein Professors Stride and Ifeka submit: "Some of the oldest inhabitants of the Atlantic Coast are the Jola, Pepeh and Sorer of the Senegambia, and Sherbro and Bulom of Sierra Leone. Along the Guinea Coast, the Lagoon folk of Ivory Coast, the Guan of Southern Ghana and the Ijaws of the Niger Delta (underlining ours) must be included among the most ancient of the coastal dwellers." (.G.T Stride and C. Ifeka, peoples and empires of West Africa 1000-1800, 1971, P.S).
8. Dr. P.A Talbot, once acting Resident of Benin Division (1920), calls the Ijaws "this strange people- a survival from the dim past beyond the dawn of history- whose language and customs are distinct from those of their neighbors and without trace of any tradition of time before they were driven-southwards into these regions of sombre mangroves." (Tribes of the Niger Delta, 1932, p.5). In another context, Dr. Talbot submits firmly; "their (Ijaws) origin is wrapped in mystery. The people inhabit practically the whole Coast, some 250 miles in length, stretching between the Ibibio and Yoruba. The Niger Delta therefore, is…occupied by this strange people." (Ibid)
9. Professor Wilfrid D. Hambly testifies: " Beliefs held by the Ijaws are of particular interest because these people are probably the oldest inhabitants of Nigeria."(Serpent Worship in Africa, (Chicago, U.S.A. 1931, p.16). In another context, Professor Wilfrid Hambly declares firmly: "Pythons are held sacred throughout the region of Marsh lands and waters inhabited by the most ancient tribe of all, the Ijaws." "(underlining ours Ibid).
10. These and more are objective and honest historians and writers who have no ulterior motive for their work. They are unanimous in their submission that the Ijaws are the indigenous and most ancient people of the Delta and the riverine, coastal areas of Nigeria

JANK23H:

Notes on the Ibo country and the Ibo People, Southern Nigeria by George Basden,Pg 243

Alabo7978
Putinthebutt

Basden mission was never on the origin of Bonny.
Basden never interviewed his so called Bonny chiefs to ask them of their Origin,if he did , perhaps he would have gotten the same history of migration from Igboland through Azumini creeks, like Talbot and Captain and Arthur Glynn and Baike all got!
He was writing on assumptions, just as he assumed that because Ijaws stuck out like aliens they are in the Southern NIGERIA, that they must have been the most Ancient since they don't have history of origin from the North, when a better hypothesis would have been that they were late arrivals who came through the seas to the Niger Delta, at a time the Edoid, Igboids, Ibibiods and Yoruboid had already taken position.

Meanwhile, here is what Talbot said about Bonny.
Of course, he had to requote Captain Crow.

Igboid:


Basden mission was never on the origin of Bonny.
Basden never interviewed his so called Bonny chiefs to ask them of their Origin,if he did , perhaps he would have gotten the same history of migration from Igboland through Azumini creeks, like Talbot and Captain and Arthur Glynn and Baike all got!
He was writing on assumptions, just as he assumed that because Ijaws stuck out like aliens they are in the Southern NIGERIA, that they must have been the most Ancient since they don't have history of origin from the North, when a better hypothesis would have been that they were early arrivals who came through the seas to the Niger Delta, at a time the Edoid, Igboids, Ibibiods and Yoruboid had already taken position.

Meanwhile, here is what Talbot said about Bonny.
Of course, he had to requote Captain Crow.

Lol..Go and read Basden's book.It was specifically about Igbos,and the areas they occupy in Nigeria, and the research was thorough.He was emphatic!

That book destroys all you assertions.Crows work isn't a research but a poorly written memoir.Dump that in the trash.

JANK23H:

Just like some of your excerpts have also "perhaped".Slayerforever even when on to "think".

Since your new preoccupation is to learn about Ijo history, Google these:

Professor J.S, Coleman in his book titled Nigeria: Background to Nationalism (Los Angeles, 1963, p. 28) describes the Ijaws as "perhaps the most ancient in West Africa whose Language has little or no affinity with any other in Nigeria ". In similar vein Professors Stride and Ifeka submit: "Some of the oldest inhabitants of the Atlantic Coast are the Jola, Pepeh and Sorer of the Senegambia, and Sherbro and Bulom of Sierra Leone. Along the Guinea Coast, the Lagoon folk of Ivory Coast, the Guan of Southern Ghana and the Ijaws of the Niger Delta (underlining ours) must be included among the most ancient of the coastal dwellers." (.G.T Stride and C. Ifeka, peoples and empires of West Africa 1000-1800, 1971, P.S).
8. Dr. P.A Talbot, once acting Resident of Benin Division (1920), calls the Ijaws "this strange people- a survival from the dim past beyond the dawn of history- whose language and customs are distinct from those of their neighbors and without trace of any tradition of time before they were driven-southwards into these regions of sombre mangroves." (Tribes of the Niger Delta, 1932, p.5). In another context, Dr. Talbot submits firmly; "their (Ijaws) origin is wrapped in mystery. The people inhabit practically the whole Coast, some 250 miles in length, stretching between the Ibibio and Yoruba. The Niger Delta therefore, is…occupied by this strange people." (Ibid)
9. Professor Wilfrid D. Hambly testifies: " Beliefs held by the Ijaws are of particular interest because these people are probably the oldest inhabitants of Nigeria."(Serpent Worship in Africa, (Chicago, U.S.A. 1931, p.16). In another context, Professor Wilfrid Hambly declares firmly: "Pythons are held sacred throughout the region of Marsh lands and waters inhabited by the most ancient tribe of all, the Ijaws." "(underlining ours Ibid).
10. These and more are objective and honest historians and writers who have no ulterior motive for their work. They are unanimous in their submission that the Ijaws are the indigenous and most ancient people of the Delta and the riverine, coastal areas of Nigeria

Nope!
Glynn , Baike, Crow notes on Bonny origin were not perhaps.
They were gotten direct from the natives!

Talbot made an erroneous suggestion that Ijaw by the virtue of not having migrated from further North and being totally divergent from Ibibio, Edo, Ibibio, Yoruba and Igbos who form continuum in terms of relationship, must have been the most Ancient of all the groups.

This is a wrong guess. Because Talbot never considered the fact that Ijaws were late arrivals in the area who didn't need to have come from Northern direction, since they were "boat people" who paddled from somewhere around Ghana-Togo to the Niger Delta.

Talbot was making a guess, hence the use of "Perhaps".
And it's a wrong and irrational guess because he closed his mind off from the possibility of Ijaws migrating through sea to the area. He based his guess solely on Ijaw not migrating from a Northern direction and hence should have been in their current southern location before all other southern groups.
Nothing else could be farther from the truth.
Only Igbo Ukwu artifacts shows that Igbos are scientifically older than Ijaws, and we have not even talked about Lejje iron ores.

Igboid:


Basden mission was never on the origin of Bonny.
Basden never interviewed his so called Bonny chiefs to ask them of their Origin,if he did , perhaps he would have gotten the same history of migration from Igboland through Azumini creeks, like Talbot and Captain and Arthur Glynn and Baike all got!
He was writing on assumptions, just as he assumed that because Ijaws stuck out like aliens they are in the Southern NIGERIA, that they must have been the most Ancient since they don't have history of origin from the North, when a better hypothesis would have been that they were early arrivals who came through the seas to the Niger Delta, at a time the Edoid, Igboids, Ibibiods and Yoruboid had already taken position.

Meanwhile, here is what Talbot said about Bonny.
Of course, he had to requote Captain Crow.

How would an Igbo man give a country an Ijo name.That should tell you there are holes in that account.You've all tried to spin that Okoloama meaning and it still doesn't stick.

JANK23H:

Lol..Go and read Basden's book.It was specifically about Igbos,and the areas they occupy in Nigeria, and the research was thorough.He was emphatic!

That book destroys all you assertions.Crows work isn't a research but a poorly written memoir.Dump that in the trash.

Basden at no point asked of Bonny origin from Bonny chiefs!
He assumed that because Igbo slaves dominated the town, they must have influenced the non existent non Igbos there.

Well we know he is wrong.
Because through the well researched works of Baike and Glynn, even Talbot ( who quoted Captain Crow as well), we have a direct documented oral history of Bonny and the list of their early kings and we know they were all Igbo!

JANK23H:

How would an Igbo man give a country an Ijo name.That should tell you there are holes in that account.You've all tried to spin that Okoloama meaning and it still doesn't stick.

It's Okoloma.
Not Okoloama.
And it has no meaning in Ijaw.
It's an Igbo word!

Igboid:


Nope!
Glynn , Baike, Crow notes on Bonny origin were not perhaps.
They were gotten direct from the natives!

Talbot made an erroneous suggestion that Ijaw by the virtue of not having migrated from further North and being totally divergent from Ibibio, Edo, Ibibio, Yoruba and Igbos who form continuum in terms of relationship, must have been the most Ancient of all the groups.

This is a wrong guess. Because Talbot never considered the fact that Ijaws were late arrivals in the area who didn't need to have come from Northern direction, since they were "boat people" who paddled from somewhere around Ghana-Togo to the Niger Delta.

Talbot was making a guess, hence the use of "Perhaps".
And it's a wrong and irrational guess because he closed his mind off from the possibility of Ijaws migrating through sea to the area. He based his guess solely on Ijaw not migrating from a Northern direction and hence should have been in their current southern location before all other southern groups.
Nothing else could be farther from the truth.
Only Igbo Ukwu artifacts shows that Igbos are scientifically older than Ijaws, and we have not even talked about Lejje iron ores.

You seemed to pick out only Talbot from the list of authors there.I had quoted Kay Williamson's 'Linguistics evidence for the prehistory of the NigerDelta'

Igboid:


Basden at no point asked of Bonny origin from Bonny chiefs!
He assumed that because Igbo slaves dominated the town, they must have influenced the non existent non Igbos there.

Well we know he is wrong.
Because through the well researched works of Baike and Glynn, even Talbot ( who quoted Captain Crow as well), we have a direct documented oral history of Bonny and the list of their early kings and we know they were all Igbo!

A town dominated by Igbo slaves would definitely have people claiming to be Igbos.That's what Crow and co didn't factor in initially.Besides Basden's research work extended to Bonny.

Igboid:


It's Okoloma.
Not Okoloama.
And it has no meaning in Ijaw.
It's an Igbo word!

Okolo-Curlew
Ama-town

Just like other Ijo towns with 'ama',the first 'a' is usually taken out.So if you say Okoloma you won't be wrong,just like Finiama is called Finima.