MaxInDHouse:


Oh i see, it's not about an order but authority conferred on a person to do and undo!
Thanks for the correction!

DeepSight:

Authority to do, yes, but to undo, I know know for that one oh.

fredwill1357:

The president has given you the approval to use it anytime you deem fit, he doesn't care if you use it or not. Will you use it?

MaxInDHouse:
he doesn't care if you use it or not.

What Jehovah's Witnesses taught me is that it's better not to build weapons at all because we can divert such resources into the production of food and information materials that will benefit the entire human race! Isaiah 2:2-4

DeepSight:

Not using it is not the same thing as undoing your use of it.
This is an idealistic notion that would work in an ideal world, and certainly not in a world where there is the imperative of self-defense.
And what is hypocritical about the JW position on war is that sometimes when your country and people are attacked, you must defend your country: JWs will refuse to take part in such defensive action but will enjoy the fruits of peace when the country is successfully defended. That is the worst kind of cowardice and hypocrisy combined.

MaxInDHouse:


That's the more reason why you need to ask us questions politely like a gentleman and intellectual instead of concluding without asking!

There's no reason to DEFEND any country but the case is more complicated than the way people like you view things.
Before an army could invade your country a ruler must have issued the order, and mind you the only reason for that is to expand his domain. So the question you're to ask yourself before picking up weapons in support of either side is:

What do i stand to benefit if A or B becomes the one ruling my territory?

Remember that for anyone to have become a commander in chief or president of any country, people under him must be loyal to him. Therefore he/she is nice to an extent to those under his/her domain that's why they're obedient to him/her. So what do i stand to gain or loose if A or B becomes the one ruling my territory?


I've served as a soldier for years and for your information the aim of any army is not to kill people but to make opposers surrender to the bid of our commander. It's against our rule to aim at people who have surrendered to our bid, that's why in most cases the word "harmless civilians" often suffice during wars.

Whether A becomes the ruler or B none can be fully trusted to improve the lives of citizens, all they're after is just the position.
So Jehovah's Witnesses taught me that instead of picking up weapons in support of A or B why not let them resolve the issue between themselves? If people the world over reason like Jehovah's Witnesses there will be no more wars.

We are all the same as in one human race, let us reason like intelligent beings not ants.

Thank you!

DeepSight:

This is benumbingly shallow and escapist, aside from the fact that it doesnt address the question of enjoying the peace secured with the blood of brave compatriots.

MaxInDHouse:


What is patriotic about stupidly picking up weapons in support of some useless miscreants who are just power drunk?
Vladimir Putin banned Jehovah's Witnesses in his country five years ago because this group will never raise weapons in support of wars, and today he's sending humans like you to go and kill people in another country but because he knew it could escalate into something unpredictable he sent his own family away to a safe place so that after zombies who are ready to die for him (PATRIOTIC) may be killed for his own glory.
So what about to his own family?
Shouldn't they also be PATRIOTIC citizens of Russia?
Who is fooling who?

Well your grammar doesn't change the fact that we humans can make the world a better place by shunning violence or picking up weapons in support of WARS!

You and your fellow atheists are here deliberating on wiping out the entire human race and you guys are sure that some good for nothing guys can insanely do it but now that i raised the idea of reasoning together to eradicate war, all you can think of is artificial peace that will soon end within few decades after many have died instead of using our brains intelligently to end it once and for all times.

Well that's the brain behind FAITH even though you guys hate hearing about it despite the fact that you can find any solution to social conflicts.

May you have PEACE!

DeepSight:

You deliberately ignore the fact that I specifically mentioned defensive action: defending your country and people when attacked by an aggressor. Abi there is something wrong with that? Am I also to assume that is assassins and armed robbers attack your family, under JW doctrine, it is wrong to defend them?

And when others defend the space with their lives, you will come afterwards and happily use the peace to carry on disturbing people's front doors with your gibberish right?
Kwantinu.

MaxInDHouse:


What you failed woefully to grasp is the fact that assassins and armed robbers are not recognized as a group under the authority of any elected leader so constitutionally they are not authorized in any way and that's why even you can fight back because if they are caught the society in which you live will subject them to the rules binding on citizens and they will be severely dealt with according to the laws.

But in the case of any army under the control of a constitutionally elected leader is not to be viewed as criminals because they're following the orders from the President elect under a democratic rule.
So even when they are caught no country will support you to kill them rather the worst you can do is jail them because they were acting in line with the orders from an elected leader under DEMOCRATIC rule which is globally accepted.

Do you now see the difference?

DeepSight:

You deliberately mentioned Putin attacking just for vain glory, why did you go silent on Ukraine defending, is that for vain glory too? Or would you recommend that Ukraine, following JW teaching, should simply lay down all arms and permit Russia to have their violent way?

MaxInDHouse:


Now you're asking intelligent question!

Assuming all the people in Ukraine are JWs nobody will raise an objection as Vladimir Putin chooses to extend his domain to that part, we will leave the place for him in peace so neither Russians or Ukrainians will have to die.

But then you're avoiding the real cause of the trouble: NATO
Ukraine cut away from Russia decades ago so they were formerly Russians, NATO wants Ukraine to join their group and that will expose Russia to danger as the enemies of Russia have been seeking a way to weaken their defense system.
So both Ukraine and Russia have something to protect but then as Jehovah's Witnesses we are neither in support of Vladimir Putin or Volodymyr Zelenskyy, anybody can rule after all we don't trust any politician.

DeepSight:

Such will not only be cowardly and irresponsible but also evil to the extent that it encourages tyranny and aggression.
It is also a big betrayal of your descendants.
All this is political analysis which has nothing to do with the subject - pacifism.

MaxInDHouse:


Your problem is atheism!

You don't believe (trust) in God

so you just feel like doing things the same way people around you does. The greatest betrayal is you putting your family at risk by going on a journey that you're not certain of coming back to take good care of your family: WAR!

DeepSight:

I am not an atheist.
My position is that God, which I define as the source of all existence, is incomprehensible and unknowable. I believe IT exists, but as I also believe IT is too transcendental to be comprehended or known, I cannot trust it either. I cannot trust an element I cannot understand or know.

DeepSight:

So a belligerent invader attacks your country and your solution is to leave the country for them right? Where will you carry 40 million people to, in the case of Ukraine. You wish to render your people stateless, homeless refugees on account of your appalling cowardice?

MaxInDHouse:

It's the same thing my friend!
As long as you can't TRUST (BELIEVE) in any being as supreme what you're saying is "i trust my own understanding" so whether you brandish it by giving it another name it doesn't change the fact that you won't obey any word from any invisible being that you can't see in order to TRUST completely. So you're an atheist!

DeepSight:

That is not the definition of atheism.

MaxInDHouse:


Who defined it for you?

My friend, use your own brains instead of waiting for the white man to come setting the standard for how you should think!

You had a father, you only knew his dad but never saw his grandpa so if your dad is doing something that you've observed your grandpa also does during his lifetime and he (your dad) now told you how it all started with his own grandpa will you debunk it since you never met the man alive?

The definition white men gave atheism doesn't really matter Sir, it's the opinion that they won't obey orders from an invisible being that's all.

You have confirmed it by saying you will carry weapons in support of a visible ruler with sugarcoated mouth to fight and die for his glory instead of peacefully evacuating the premises the guy is trying to retain for his own glory!

DeepSight:

I don't think Charles Taze Russell was a black man.

DeepSight:

Will you stop this foul mendacity at once. You know very well I have spoken about self defense and not involvement in any aggressive war of invasion or expansion for anyone's vanity.

MaxInDHouse:

And who told you he's the one who defined my faith?

If truthfully the purpose is for SELF DEFENSE and the ruler of the invaders has given me the ultimatum to evacuate the premises he's eyeing, the best form of defense i can think of is taking my families away from that place safely instead of picking up weapons against the invaders!
So it's your opinion against mine, you don't tell me i'm wrong for choosing another option to save the lives of my love ones!

DeepSight:

Oh please.
And where will forty million cowards run to?
Now lets imagine it's Nigeria that's attacked, where would 200 million cowards run to ? ?
Now lets imagine it's India or China that's attacked, where would one billion cowards run to? ? ?
You are a joker.

fredwill1357:
If you are a citizen and high ranking military general of a powerful country like USA, Russia, China, etc. You are married and have a comfortable life, your job commands respect, you earn in thousands or Millions of your local currency, with prospects of earning more through the backdoor. The president entrusts you and your unit with a very powerful weapon of mass destruction that can kill billions of people, with a 60-100 chance of wiping out the whole human race and all other lives.

The president has given you the approval to use it anytime you deem fit, he doesn't care if you use it or not. Will you use it?

CC: hardMirror, johnydon22, Martinez39s, DeepSight, HopefulLandlord, CAPSLOCKED.

NairalandSARS:


Yes, of course. I see life as unnecessary.

CAPSLOCKED:


I ATTACH NO IMPORTANCE TO LIFE WHATSOEVER, BUT IF I'M EVER GIVEN THE CHANCE TO END ALL FORMS OF LIFE ON EARTH I WON'T TAKE IT. WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU?

fredwill1357:
Why won't you end all forms of life? especially the human specie?

NairalandSARS:


Yes, of course. I see life as unnecessary.

NairalandSARS:


Yes, of course. I see life as unnecessary.