And how much is embezzled daily? Sum it up and it won’t amount to the subsidies funds.

Beremx:
Average Nigerians like me will not benefit from subsidy removal because the money will be looted instead of using it to better the life of Nigerians. Also, fuel will be very expensive which will affect the price of goods in the market.

Nigeria is maintaining subsidy simply because of the North.
Do you know that electricity tariff is subsidised up there.
Currently, it's only the North that's benefitting from subsidy or are you benefitting?
We all know what's going on. It's political cos it will make an average northerner sit up nd ask questions which their elite don't want.

Subsidy money still goes into the hands of few who control this country so how are we benefiting?
Inflation rises astronomically every month. Maybe, it wil make use start spending wisely cos an average Nigerian spends foolishly.

descarado:

Nigeria is maintaining subsidy simply because of the North.
Do you know that electricity tariff is subsidised up there.
Currently, it's only the North that's benefitting from subsidy or are you benefitting?
We all know what's going on. It's political cos it will make an average northerner sit up nd ask questions which their elite don't want.

Subsidy money still goes into the hands of few who control this country so how are we benefiting?
Inflation rises astronomically every month. Maybe, it wil make use start spending wisely cos an average Nigerian spends foolishly.

Actually, every Nigerian benefits from power tarrif subsidies. It's why every DISCO cannot make a profit.

The subsidy monies they are paid barely covers their losses, and sometimes they don't even get paid.

Without subsides, we would be paying above N80 per kwh for power. (See the PwC report on the liquidity challenges in the power sector, available online, link below). As it is, depending on your band, everyone pays for power between N49-71 per kwh.


Link of the report


P.S One of the Northern discos YEDC declared force maejure, and collapsed because low income meant they could no longer run a business. Government is looking for new buyers now.

Below: tarrif regimes

subsidywise18:


Well, it isn't government that would produce the consumer items, it is people. And as someone said here elsewhere...people aren't interested in setting up industries.

Also, for industries to run well, you have to set up small scale industries that would build the components...for the big industries.

But when people aren't interested in doing that, buteither want to import or to get government job.....

What you failed to factor in is the cost of production of goods in Nigeria: it is far much higher than most countries of the world.
The cost of diesel per litre is aost N800
Multiple taxes you pay will close up your industries unless you know how to settle FIRS and other agencies.
You generate your own power, produce your own water, provide your own security etc All in a country where insurance is a scam and lending rates of banks are up to 30%.

Tell me why it is more profitable to manufacture pencils that import pencils from China at half the cost and not more stress?

subsidywise18:


Also, power supply is poor because power has been subsidised to the point where it cannot make a profit.

Power generation had been poor because we depend on importation to service and maintain the Turbines and the Alternators!

Our technological poverty is destroying this nation but our economic experts seem not to understand.

Take for instance, transformer steel is the bedrock of electrical engineering. You cannot manufacture Transformers, Alternators, Electric Motors, Generators etc. Without these there is NO development.

subsidywise18:



Subaidy removals in the past, are partial removals (It took me some time to understand this, so I am not defending government...I had the same question over 12 years ago).

At some point it becomes difficult for government to maintain petrol at price A, so, they reduce the amount they spend subsidising petrol , and this manifests as a rise in prices to price B., which government subsidises to. Once it becomes diffiuclt to stay at price B, rinse and repeat.

That's been happening since the 1970's. It's why petrol no longer costs 15 kobo per liter, like it did in 1981.

So long as government sets the price, there is a subsidy.

Subsidy removal is subsidy removal whether full or partial. The problem is that they keep destroying the fundamental indeces of our economy and Rob citizens to pay up for the damages

TenQ:

What you failed to factor in is the cost of production of goods in Nigeria: it is far much higher than most countries of the world.
The cost of diesel per litre is aost N800
Multiple taxes you pay will close up your industries unless you know how to settle FIRS and other agencies.
You generate your own power, produce your own water, provide your own security etc All in a country where insurance is a scam and lending rates of banks are up to 30%.

Tell me why it is more profitable to manufacture pencils that import pencils from China at half the cost and not more stress?

Because

1Tax income is too low to produce good enough supporting infrastructire..we rely on oil money which is not enough (and the looting makes things worse).

2.Power is subsidised to a point it is not profitable ...and thus they cannot pay for things that would improve generation, and suchlike.

3.We import. And it stifles job creation

4.Police has one tenth of what the NYPD uses to police 25 million people to police 200 million people.

Power generation had been poor because we depend on importation to service and maintain the Turbines and the Alternators!

Our technological poverty is destroying this nation but our economic experts seem not to understand.

Take for instance, transformer steel is the bedrock of electrical engineering. You cannot manufacture Transformers, Alternators, Electric Motors, Generators etc. Without these there is NO development.

Either way, government cannot set prices below the cost of producing power....and expect the companies to have the money to buy turbines..whether produced at home or abroad.

Oga, you don;t get it. Government is setting the price of power at a price the sector cannot afford. As a result they lose money.


Compare with GSM...GSM companies can set whatever price they want...and they have enough profit to import all their equipment, which they use to provide service.


WOULD YOU WANT GOVERNMENT TO SET YOUR PRICE AS A BUSINESSPERSON (and I insist you answer this question).?

Subsidy removal is subsidy removal whether full or partial. The problem is that they keep destroying the fundamental indeces of our economy and Rob citizens to pay up for the damages

[/quote]

So long as government sets the price, there is a subsidy.

Don;t live in denial. I know



And yes, the government is bad. I am telling you why they are bad. Setting prices for business is not good economic practice




You want cheap, without any thought for how it is paid for. That is wishful thinking. Sorry, but it is wishful thinking.


Good e'en.

subsidywise18:


Because

1Tax income is too low to produce good enough supporting infrastructire..we rely on oil money which is not enough (and the looting makes things worse).

2.Power is subsidised to a point it is not profitable ...and thus they cannot pay for things that would improve generation, and suchlike.

3.We import. And it stifles job creation

4.Police has one tenth of what the NYPD uses to police 25 million people to police 200 million people.








Either way, government cannot set prices below the cost of producing power....and expect the companies to have the money to buy turbines..whether produced at home or abroad.

Oga, you don;t get it. Government is setting the price of power at a price the sector cannot afford. As a result they lose money.


Compare with GSM...GSM companies can set whatever price they want...and they have enough profit to import all their equipment, which they use to provide service.


WOULD YOU WANT GOVERNMENT TO SET YOUR PRICE AS A BUSINESSPERSON (and I insist you answer this question).?






So long as government sets the price, there is a subsidy.

Don;t live in denial. I know



And yes, the government is bad. I am telling you why they are bad. Setting prices for business is not good economic practice




You want cheap, without any thought for how it is paid for. That is wishful thinking. Sorry, but it is wishful thinking.


Good e'en.

I will answer you by siting just one example you yourself raised.

1. Is Nigeria truely making profit from MTN, Airtel and 9mobile telecom industry? (I delibratly excluded Globacom)
2. Why is the Naira getting devalued everyday since independence?

Hmmmm

TenQ:

I will answer you by siting just one example you yourself raised.

1. Is Nigeria truely making profit from MTN, Airtel and 9mobile telecom industry? (I delibratly excluded Globacom)
2. Why is the Naira getting devalued everyday since independence?

1.Nigeria is not supposed to make profit from MTN and company. MTN and company are making enough profit to operate here...because they are not subsidised.

In return we get jobs, direct and indirect, tax revenue, etc.

2.Because we are a resource dependent economy. Have been since independence. We sell raw materials whose prices we do not control. As a result we don't earn enough money, and have to borrow to make the difference. Associated looting...since most of our money comes from revenue from selling raw materials, not from taxes....looting is made easier...makes the matter worse.

And yes, it annoys me to no end that Nigeria does not want to get off oil, and industrialize.

I'm done here.

subsidywise18:


1.Nigeria is not supposed to make profit from MTN and company. MTN and company are making enough profit to operate here...because they are not subsidised.

In return we get jobs, direct and indirect, tax revenue, etc.

2.Because we are a resource dependent economy. Have been since independence. We sell raw materials whose prices we do not control. As a result we don't earn enough money, and have to borrow to make the difference. Associated looting...since most of our money comes from revenue from selling raw materials, not from taxes....looting is made easier...makes the matter worse.

And yes, it annoys me to no end that Nigeria does not want to get off oil, and industrialize.

I'm done here.

1.MTN virtually collects money in Naira and the government has to convert the Naira to dollars which end up in South Africa economy! It's a net loss relationship even though we gain services and fringe jobs
2. I agree perfectly with you.
However,
Only the government can kickstart this industrial revolution.
The business environment has to be made right.

subsidywise18:


Subsidy chatter actually started during the millitary regime. It was there from 1973, and the first chatter about removing it was in the 1980's and 1990's. In 1993, IBB was advised by the World Bank and company to remove fuel subsides.

Also we import for the simple reason that subsides means that you sell fuel at a price below what it costs to make it, and you get paid a subsidy that barely covers refining costs. That's a big part of the reason why our refineries collapsed....no profit, dependent on government subventions which in turn fuelled corruption and sabotage...since whether refinery worked or not, ye get paid. And more money comes in from repairing 'breakdowns'

We have been subsidising fuel since 1973. This is the end result.

But you haven't addressed the crux of my point. Why wasn't the subsidy shit so much of a problem during the military regime. As we speak even the uneducated now know of a subsidy thing and if anything happens to the fuel prices they know oh one subsidy crap must be involved. If we have been subsidising fuel since 1973 why wasn't it a killer phenomenon all through till 1999? Obasanjo entered and boom "subsidy" became a word used to terrorize people. I still say it. Democracy is absolute nonsense. No wonder the founding fathers of the US relied more on the collegiate system because pure representative democracy is just nonsense. Power will never reside with the people rather it will always reside in the hands of the few powerful who can make dumb decisions at will. We have the raw materials but we choose to export the raw material and import refined products based on a raw we have in abundance. Nothing spells madness more than what our leaders do with oil.

efficiencie:


But you haven't addressed the crux of my point. Why wasn't the subsidy shit so much of a problem during the military regime

.

It was a big deal back then.

Eg in 1993, when IBB was told by Baroness Lynda Chalker to remove subsides. And Nigerians protested well well. Also back in the 1980'S there were campaigns for 'appropriate pricing of petrol'.

Same arguments used then are being used now against it.

As we speak even the uneducated now know of a subsidy thing and if anything happens to the fuel prices they know oh one subsidy crap must be involved. If we have been subsidising fuel since 1973 why wasn't it a killer phenomenon all through till 1999?

It was. That's why there were partial removals throughout. In 1981, fuel cost 15 kobo, by 1994 it cost N5. It was putting pressure on the economy then. as it is now. (SEE BELOW image for a history of such partial removals)

Obasanjo entered and boom "subsidy" became a word used to terrorize people.

Because the chickens were comming home to roost.

By 1999, it was costing us money to subsidise fuel, plus the refineries were not getting maintained on schedule...and that was from the 1990's...something was up.

I still say it. Democracy is absolute nonsense. No wonder the founding fathers of the US relied more on the collegiate system because pure representative democracy is just nonsense. Power will never reside with the people rather it will always reside in the hands of the few powerful who can make dumb decisions at will. We have the raw materials but we choose to export the raw material and import refined products based on a raw we have in abundance. Nothing spells madness more than what our leaders do with oil.

Well, right now it costs over N300 to refine one liter of fuel. Assuming we refine it here, subsidy means that liter has to be sold below N170 naira to the marketers.

Would you build a refinery or own a refinery under those circumstances?

That is what we have been doing for decades...and we are reaping what we sowed.


BONUS READ

Has the government tried to remove them?
Various administrations have unsuccessfully tried to remove fuel subsidies since the transition to civilian rule in 1979.

President Shehu Shagari’s government – from 1979 to 1983 – increased the price of petrol in 1982, from 15.3 kobo a litre to 20 kobo. This happened without the government making reference to easing subsidies.

Then in 1986 President Ibrahim Babangida announced a partial removal of oil subsidies, which saw petrol price rise from 20 kobo to 39 kobo per litre. This followed his implementation of the Structural Adjustment Program as set out by the International Monetary Fund.

There was a huge uproar against the decision, which reached a crescendo when workers, students and civil society groups embarked on massive demonstrations across the country. Massive and sustained protests against Babangida’s economic policies played a big role in his hurried exit from power. The administrations that followed left subsidies in place.

It wasn’t until 2012 that action was taken again. President Goodluck Jonathan parred down fuel subsides and used the savings to invest in education and infrastructure. But he encountered virulent pushbacks from labour unions, students, and civil society groups. He was subsequently forced to cut the fuel price by 30%.

Last year in June, President Muhammadu Buhari’s administration announced it was eliminating fuel subsidies. It said it had granted approval to the Petroleum Products Pricing Regulatory Agency to remove the price cap that was in place for petrol.

But by March of this year, the government announced it was keeping the pump price of petrol unchanged despite increasing crude costs. This effectively marked a return to subsidies.

SAUCE

Remove subsidy and increase minimum wage

subsidywise18:
.

It was a big deal back then.

Eg in 1993, when IBB was told by Baroness Lynda Chalker to remove subsides. And Nigerians protested well well. Also back in the 1980'S there were campaigns for 'appropriate pricing of petrol'.

Same arguments used then are being used now against it.



It was. That's why there were partial removals throughout. In 1981, fuel cost 15 kobo, by 1994 it cost N5. It was putting pressure on the economy then. as it is now. (SEE BELOW image for a history of such partial removals)



Because the chickens were comming home to roost.

By 1999, it was costing us money to subsidise fuel, plus the refineries were not getting maintained on schedule...and that was from the 1990's...something was up.



Well, right now it costs over N300 to refine one liter of fuel. Assuming we refine it here, subsidy means that liter has to be sold below N170 naira to the marketers.

Would you build a refinery or own a refinery under those circumstances?

That is what we have been doing for decades...and we are reaping what we sowed.


BONUS READ


SAUCE

with all you have been writing, you are saying that government has been paying subsidy and government has all this while been saying that it has been paying subsidy. who has government been paying the subsidy to?

subsidywise18:


Actually, every Nigerian benefits from power tarrif subsidies. It's why every DISCO cannot make a profit.

The subsidy monies they are paid barely covers their losses, and sometimes they don't even get paid.

Without subsides, we would be paying above N80 per kwh for power. (See the PwC report on the liquidity challenges in the power sector, available online, link below). As it is, depending on your band, everyone pays for power between N49-71 per kwh.


Link of the report


P.S One of the Northern discos YEDC declared force maejure, and collapsed because low income meant they could no longer run a business. Government is looking for new buyers now.

Below: tarrif regimes

who is collecting the power tariff subsidies? who and who is government paying the subsidies to?

meanwhile, how many times has buhari increased electricity tariffs and what has been the effect on electricity supply and profit of discos?

with all the estimated billing which is ripping off electricity consumers, how come discos arent making money?

heendrix:


Your point is just as senseless as urself...so cuz you don't move out if money isn't involved, everyone should also stay at home if money is not involved??

how bout advocating for the repair and the proper functioning of our local based refinery?? most dwellers in rural Ijaw region refine fuel themselves and sell at a very cheap price, but what is ur government doing to them?? killing em instead of employing their ideas into making things easy for Nigerians

your uselessness has no remedy

I just don't understand this country as a nation anymore..