Honoredeblazac:
I use to think that these quack engineers were the cause of the many building collapse, but I realize that I was wrong. Nigeria has so many trained engineering graduates walkIng around and speaking big grammar, but once your hire them, you will realize that they are worse than the untrained ones. I can’t tell you the number of times these poorly trained fools is given a project and they will go out and hire experienced none educated folks who they will pay less to do the job.
Most multi story buildings which collapsed had trained engineers, but whenever something wrong happen, they will claim they owners or builders didn’t do as they were told. How come more buildings are collapsing nowadays? Go to Ibadan and other old cities and you will see buildings of over 100 years still standing. Those who built it were not engineers, workmen who learnt from the white man. Just like the average graduate today cannot compete with the average diploma holder of the 1960s, the average engineer today cannot compete with the technicians of 1960s.

you are definitely right on this one

ikezudon:


The Architect is the head of the project and has every right to supervise the building construction.

However, he is not an island of knowledge and can only be successful on the project alongside a qualified engineer.

Yes an architect is the head of the project not the one who should execute the project.

That's where the confusion started. An architect was trained to design, in fact many architects don't know the position of COLUMNS in the building and a structural engineer can introduce beam(s) into the building

Las las, na wetin we design dem go build

You're right but you don't know the working structural members of the building which hold the building in place.

and we gats Dey there till dem build an finish.[quote]

Yes to ensure what you design was what is on ground.

Just as structural engineer will be there too.

That's why architect wasn't the only building Team.

[quote]Sadly, clients love to play a quick one and shortchange us in a bid to save money (so they think). Them no Dey even pay for design.

Well many clients can bypass architect if their taste can be met but the structural parts of the building can never be overlooked by anybody.

rocknation62:
Some brick layers with experience are far better than some Engr.

My brother’s first house was built by so called Engr even me wey study accounting no fit build that outhouse! The house was later brought down after few years before it was given to a better hand

How sure are you he's not an architect or a surveyor,because most people will give their construction works to an architect or a surveyor once he convince them he can handle it,or did he show you his certificate?

rocknation62:
Some brick layers with experience are far better than some Engr.

My brother’s first house was built by so called Engr even me wey study accounting no fit build that outhouse! The house was later brought down after few years before it was given to a better hand

How sure are you he's not an architect or a surveyor,because most people will give their construction works to an architect or a surveyor once he convince them he can handle it,or did he show you his certificate?

Well,it's your choice,a bricklayer will build storey buildings with experience and not conducting the necessary test on materials

ikezudon:


The Architect is the head of the project and has every right to supervise the building construction.

However, he is not an island of knowledge and can only be successful on the project alongside a qualified engineer.

Las las, na wetin we design dem go build, and we gats Dey there till dem build an finish. Sadly, clients love to play a quick one and shortchange us in a bid to save money (so they think). Them no Dey even pay for design.

They’d ask for a sketch and then proceed to build with the sketch. No working drawings, no structural drawings, no M&E, not even a boq that shows them a budget. When e don cast, they’d be running kitikiti.

I don’t do remedial works, neither do I give sketches. Let them solve their problems themselves since they want to play smart. Tomorrow na them go still point say, na architect build that nonsense oo… rubbish

The architect has NO RIGHT whatsoever to supervise any building. What are you supervising? That they should follow the drawing or what?
So what then is the job of the structural engineer? What's the job of a builder?

You guys take a lot of things for granted in Nigeria. If Nigeria was truly working a lot of you would have been jailed.

Holluwatarhyor:
you are not totally right,I've worked with the telecommunication industry to construct a network mast,an average technician can't build a network mast without the assistance of a civil engineer,there's a difference between a civil engineer and a building technician/someone who studied building.


Civil engineering is vast,so some builders,surveyors and architects call themselves engineer also

Among the three you mentioned only BUILDER is an Engineer.

Yes civil engineering is vast but it has been narrow down to just three.

Which are:
1. Structure
2. High way
3. Water

NotKnown:


The architect has NO RIGHT whatsoever to supervise any building. What are you supervising? That they should follow the drawing or what?
So what then is the job of the structural engineer? What's the job of a builder?

You guys take a lot of things for granted in Nigeria. If Nigeria was truly working a lot of you would have been jailed.

You're wrong!

Architect is the head of the building Team!

So he/she must be there to ensure that the building was built as designed.

Just as structural engineer a team member must also be there to ensure that all the structural members are built as designed

No offense OP, but the reason why people engage in these quacks is because many of our so called graduate engineers dont even know how to set blocks , or basic of practical construction, how can you supervise something you know nothing of.

Many of the so called engineers engaged end up contracting the work to the masons.

Now am not saying all our engineers are like that , but the majority dont like getting their hands dirty.

I can never be comfortable with an Engineer who prefers the desk than the field, or the one who prefers suits to chinos.

NotKnown:


The architect has NO RIGHT whatsoever to supervise any building. What are you supervising? That they should follow the drawing or what?
So what then is the job of the structural engineer? What's the job of a builder?

You guys take a lot of things for granted in Nigeria. If Nigeria was truly working a lot of you would have been jailed.

But the structural engineer is the one who is supposed to provide structural plans of the building, but I see many architects doing this in practice, I guess thats one of the dividends of autocad, one can easily copy and paste other peoples jobs.

Emusan:


Among the three you mentioned only BUILDER is an Engineer.

Yes civil engineering is vast but it has been narrow down to just three.

Which are:
1. Structure
2. High way
3. Water

Julius berger is a civil engineering company and they can handle the building of structures,because I'm not getting you,are you a builder or a civil engineer to start with??

Benin especially is a case study, las las na one flat there power reach to do

I lost my house to such kind of people, spent 7m and the house was a mess, I regretted ever using Baba Ijekun. I eventually sold off the property.

Just the same way chemist go talk say dem be doctor and nurse's....See na 9ja we dey jare, notin freak me again....mechanic don dey teach carpenter work for site now adays, even person wey dey clean inside airplane dey call him self pilot.

Honoredeblazac:
I use to think that these quack engineers were the cause of the many building collapse, but I realize that I was wrong. Nigeria has so many trained engineering graduates walkIng around and speaking big grammar, but once your hire them, you will realize that they are worse than the untrained ones. I can’t tell you the number of times these poorly trained fools is given a project and they will go out and hire experienced none educated folks who they will pay less to do the job.
Most multi story buildings which collapsed had trained engineers, but whenever something wrong happen, they will claim they owners or builders didn’t do as they were told. How come more buildings are collapsing nowadays? Go to Ibadan and other old cities and you will see buildings of over 100 years still standing. Those who built it were not engineers, workmen who learnt from the white man. Just like the average graduate today cannot compete with the average diploma holder of the 1960s, the average engineer today cannot compete with the technicians of 1960s.

There nothing, absolutely nothing to add again !!!

You just nailed it !!!

I think the op is just being economical with the truth !

I'm a site man, so I Know the op is just a joker and insincere ;-\ he fails to mention the real culprits which are the half baked graduates parading themselves as engineers, you need to see their yeye on site sometimes, some of them still need to depend on some experienced brickilayers to read through plans .

Pls this points need more emphasis rather than putting all the blames on pay as you go site workers .

Emusan:
Even the so called professionals don't know what Engineering all about especially when it comes to highrise buildings.

They can't generate Structural Data
They can't do simple Structural design
They can't read structural analysis reports

All what you see on site are copy and paste reinforcement arrangements from another design.

Until the industry set the priority straight then we can start to talk of professionalism in construction industry.

NIOB bill that can put all this quacks in their hiding hole has been with National Assembly for years now. What can one say about that?

With this bill, for instance:
Non-building professionals can't set up ordinary Block industry which means all the block industries will be owned by professional that will guarantee standard block.

Does NSE or COREN care about this?? ... No, of course...

NotKnown:


The architect has NO RIGHT whatsoever to supervise any building. What are you supervising? That they should follow the drawing or what?
So what then is the job of the structural engineer? What's the job of a builder?

You guys take a lot of things for granted in Nigeria. If Nigeria was truly working a lot of you would have been jailed.

.... what's NSE or COREN doing about all these anomaly? ..

Oh I know, another eat and drink conference is coming up, and time to award tinubu a fellow...

rocknation62:
Some brick layers with experience are far better than some Engr.

My brother’s first house was built by so called Engr even me wey study accounting no fit build that outhouse! The house was later brought down after few years before it was given to a better hand

Holluwatarhyor:
Julius berger is a civil engineering company and they can handle the building of structures,because I'm not getting you,are you a builder or a civil engineer to start with??

That means Julius Berger can do all the three aspect of civil engineering works i.e structure, highway and water(dam).

I'm a Builder/Structural Engineer.

swissgoldenpro3:
This is very true

There's nothing true about the op, he's just being one-sided, 30% of our experienced bricklayers are better than 65% of our construction-engineers today.

Believe me, many of these poorly constructed buildings are not directly the fault of these people in the op, but the owners of those buildings trying to cut the costs, and going for cheaper materials/ estimates.

Next time, the op should learn to balance things !

quentin06:
But the structural engineer is the one who is supposed to provide structural plans m(drawings) of the building

You're right!

but I see many architects doing this in practice

No architect can do that unless the architect is also a structural engineer, what you see are people who are just doing guess work.

I guess thats one of the dividends of autocad, one can easily copy and paste other peoples jobs.

You can copy people work on autocad especially the architectural drawings but each building has different structural members which need different structural analysis and detailing but what many so called professionals do is to copy and paste any structural drawings they have and do a guess work on the project.

Bros no vex, u no get talk for mouth
What's engineering if construction!!
Those guys you mentioned, what do they do?


Because most of them didn't go to school, they been seen as quack....abeg 4get this talk u saying,


If it's a white man in this positions you mentioned doing this job I guess they be wen as engineer, because na blacks u remember say them be carpenter, brick layer, mason man e.t.c, and not engineers


Let's promote and support one another
God bless Africa
God bless Nigeria

Holluwatarhyor:
Do we even know there's something called soil test before construction of a building,especially high rise buildings..

You need to assess the suitability of the soil for your construction project with vital data for informed decision making and planning. The quality of the soil on your site plays a key role in your construction projects.

But once a bricklayer tells you he's experienced,you are in,even it has to be a three storey building.....

/
And you are sure that the person doing the soil test is qualified? You are sure that the real engineer handling your project didn't "sort" his way through school?

Nigeria is what it is. The people who claim they know what they are doing are not affordable because their is no standardized pricing. Some people snap other people's projects and pass it off as their own. Nigeria is a basket case.

Going to school and getting a degree/certificates is only one of many factors in determining competence.

/

InvertedHammer:

/
And you are sure that the person doing the soil test is qualified? You are sure that the real engineer handling your project didn't "sort" his way through school?

Nigeria is what it is. The people who claim they know what they are doing are not affordable because their is no standardized pricing. Some people snap other people's projects and pass it off as their own. Nigeria is a basket case.

Going to school and getting a degree/certificates is only one of many factors in determining competence.

/

you are right

InvertedHammer:

/
And you are sure that the person doing the soil test is qualified? You are sure that the real engineer handling your project didn't "sort" his way through school?

Nigeria is what it is. The people who claim they know what they are doing are not affordable because their is no standardized pricing. Some people snap other people's projects and pass it off as their own. Nigeria is a basket case.

Going to school and getting a degree/certificates is only one of many factors in determining competence.

/

you are right but there are still few good ones,I've lost some projects because I billed up to the right standard for the said projects and the clients are insisting I should come down with the price,but I don't like sleeping with one eye closed,my peace of mind is paramount

Redpillar:

ikoyi tower fall on you

Emusan:


That means Julius Berger can do all the three aspect of civil engineering works i.e structure, highway and water(dam).

I'm a Builder/Structural Engineer.

Sure,I did my IT with them 2006

Simeonjoe1:

Do even professional engineers carry out such test.
Most of those engineer also make use of the quacks to carry out the project to save cost. Or how many engineers have you seen laying the block or carrying out the concrete work or other works? Na still the quack they do all the works under them...

A professional crook calling a non professional crook.

I don’t know how Engineers are licensed in Nigeria, but graduating with engineering degree doesn’t make someone an engineer. You still have to write fundamental of Engineering exam, go through four years of apprenticeship before being able to write a professional engineering exam.

Honoredeblazac:
I use to think that these quack engineers were the cause of the many building collapse, but I realize that I was wrong. Nigeria has so many trained engineering graduates walkIng around and speaking big grammar, but once your hire them, you will realize that they are worse than the untrained ones. I can’t tell you the number of times these poorly trained fools is given a project and they will go out and hire experienced none educated folks who they will pay less to do the job.
Most multi story buildings which collapsed had trained engineers, but whenever something wrong happen, they will claim they owners or builders didn’t do as they were told. How come more buildings are collapsing nowadays? Go to Ibadan and other old cities and you will see buildings of over 100 years still standing. Those who built it were not engineers, workmen who learnt from the white man. Just like the average graduate today cannot compete with the average diploma holder of the 1960s, the average engineer today cannot compete with the technicians of 1960s.

U are very correct

Emusan:


This is from a type Nigeria Engineer!

How can you say something like this?

Do you know importance of structural analysis and detailing?

Can a bricklayer tell you how each members of the structure behave under loading?

This is what is leading to many building collapse.



You're right on this!



You maybe right here



I disagree!

Most building that collapse lack structural analysis and detailing.

Just as you suggested at the opening of your post. Many structure built in Nigeria are based on ASSUMPTION of this type of foundation can do it, this type of reinforcement will over carry the load or concrete mixing ratio 1:2:4 is for any building.

These are what will be subjected to scrutinity during structural analysis and detailing and the most accurate result will be obtained.

In the UK builders first over Concentrate on Structure reinforcement and foundation fortification for which they often used Steel and A grade Concrete

Because they have already over Fortified the Foundations and Building Support the building has no Problem

It is like training a bricklayer to always build a Foundation and Supports that are always ten times more than what is needed as long as the Foundation and Supports are far above what is needed the builder can build up to 4 Storeys with no Problem

Every floor is supported by Steel bars and Pillars underneath it that is far above what is necessary to support the building

There are actually builders whose only Job it is to build the Steel Support of the building and they drill deep into the Ground like 60-100ft pump reinforced Concrete into the Ground then sink the Steel bars that will hold up the entire Structure even if there is an earthquake it will not Collapse

In the UK people that start out as Site Labourers are trained to be Site Engineers and Managers on the Job all the time and they are among the best in the world

They really understand Construction despite not having any degree only on the Job Training

Engr wey do like Lawyer nah suegbe eee!

NotKnown:
I wonder how the OP skipped mentioning architects cos they're on this same table.

Architect will draw then also collect the contract to supervise the building.

What nonsense is that?

Then when they hook somewhere they'll start calling on of their engineer friends they have to start asking rubbish questions.

Do your job and leave the next professional to take over.

There are exception to this..

Op, the problem permeates every profession in Nigeria! Our leaders are mostly illiterates who can't think properly to see the dangerous effects of quackery and how it contributes to low life expectancy in the country.

Just take the health sector as another instance. Only in Nigeria are school drop outs forming associations (NAPMED or what are they called sef) and parading themselves as "doctors" and administering all manner of drugs to ignorant Nigerians. Tell me why our lifespan will not be low with such quackery in our health sector?!

Check out countries like Ghana, they don't have such practices as patent medicine dealers! They have only qualified pharmacists dispensing drugs. That's a country with sound minds as leaders!

Why do we even send people to schools to go and study those professional courses when we cannot thoroughly checkmate quackery in those professions? Why not just allow everybody become quacks so we can outrightly kill ourselves!