truthbetold22:


Three takeaways from this

1- 10 545w panels and 5 650w panels cannot be on a 5kw mppt and you assume you got good service. That is just the installer maxing out the cc and leaving the rest to waste.

2- no one is spreading falsehood here, a copy of your chat was uploaded and you clearly said, from 15 holes, it is now only 2 that is leaking. If more holes of more leakage turn up, you have to reach out again and allow Zeestone fix it even though I realize that it is not entirely his fault and I ll explain below.

3- I am a building engineer. Wen working with aluminum roofing sheets, anything less than actual 0.45mm gauge is total rubbish and will create issues like this whenever anyone climbs the roof no matter how many. The sheets are so weak that even if you are very careful where you place your legs, wherever you walk on depresses and then shrinks and will not rise as it should. A proper 0.45mm-0.55mm gauge will not give this issues from my experience.

I am certain that @firethesun’s roof was installed by people who likely went for lower gauge aluminum thereby making Zeestone’s install way more difficult. I have experienced this many times. Roofers sell 0.35mm low quality as 0.45mm and the average home owner doesn’t know.

If you doubt me, @firethesun can get another roofer with a caliper to measure the gauge, he should then post pictures here.

You really should check your roof quality before accusing anyone.

Don't mind him. He's bored. Imagine after everyone going their separate ways you wake up after 11months to spread rubbish talks. He didn't even reach out to me.

He's a full blown exaggerator, I didn't even see any 15 holes which I'm very sure he was exaggerating. Someone that can confidently say my people were running on the roof with heavy 535w panels.
All I did was send a professional to take care of it. What more does he expect.

Tell him to send pictures of the installation I did, he won't because he knows it is a professional installation and would make him sound stupid for calling me names.

Not everyone can be saved. Good luck with his installer that installed 8.5kw mismatched panels on 80a cc

ojeysky:
230AH New Eve cells available can sell in minimum of 8 units @75k each. Comes with Busbar, nuts and screws

Call/WhatsApp: 08035233535

Still available for sale

FEGEITOK:
What are viable alternatives to roof installation of Solar panels?

Just in case I am not willing to reroof the house

If you have a big compound, set it up at ground level or you can build a car port with the panels as the roof.

earthrealm:


Lolz, sentiments aside, pls disprove scientifically all that i typed there, are the lies or truths?.

Now back to the posters question, it really has no answer, if you use the battery outside the limits i stated.

A leadacid battery can be dead in 8months to 1 yr, if owner goes against some of the rules i posted...same battery can do 5yrs..if owner obeys all the rules.....

I believe in showing people, life and death...so they can make informed choices

If someone comes to ask you, if a motorcycle can take him to London from Lagos...,instead of taking a 6hr flight...what would you answer him?.......i guess you would tell him Yes, end of story.....

Well, the way am wired, i would educate him on the pros and cons of his plans.....so he can arrive at a decision by himself

We all know why your leadacid bank lasted 8yrs+....you have a big warchest, wch enables you to consciously or subconsciously keep to all the rules i posted.
The average user doesnt hv the resources to copy your style.other than telling people your leadacid bank lasted 8yrs, i dont recall coming across where you informed people, the secret to your batterys longevity?...which is what i exactly xrayed in my earlier post

Lastly, if u are truthful n engage installers or users of leadacid battery, the usual denominator is premature battery failure, usually under 2urs..or 3yrs max

You have only used 1 type of battery chemistry--leadacid, many of us pro lithium folks hv used both leadacid and lithium.....so naturally we are in a better position to compare the 2 batteries, from firsthand experience....which you dont have .
Its night and day., Like comparing Lagos and London

You say you have used both lead and lithium. Fine George has a given a life span of his agm use 8yrs. Let us have the life span or how long you have gone lithium.
Or you just started using lithium.is the use up to 5yrs now .please I want to know.

samnaija:


You say you have used both lead and lithium. Fine George has a given a life span of his agm use 8yrs. Let us have the life span or how long you have gone lithium.
Or you just started using lithium.is the use up to 5yrs now .please I want to know.

Let me try, I just started using lithium , but will you wait for me for
5 years experience before you believe that lithium is a superior chemistry and infact will do at least 3x lifespan of leadacid under similar operating conditions?
For a lithium enthusiast like me, I still bought lead acid this month on situation beyond my sole control, so.LA is a technology that will still be with us for a while. However anyone who has been on this thread and has the means but is still chasing on lead acid over lithium is only deceiving himself. A newbie here has enough information to make their independent opinion. Ultimately one man's food will continue to remain another man's poison

ojeysky:


Let me try, I just started using lithium , but will you wait for me for
5 years experience before you believe that lithium is a superior chemistry and infact will do at least 3x lifespan of leadacid under similar operating conditions?
For a lithium enthusiast like me, I still bought lead acid this month on situation beyond my sole control, so.LA is a technology that will still be with us for a while. However anyone who has been on this thread and has the means but is still chasing on lead acid over lithium is only deceiving himself. A newbie here has enough information to make their independent opinion. Ultimately one man's food will continue to remain another man's poison

You don't get where I am going. Most people here are like you just starting lithium.all of a sudden you have vast experience.

My brother check the threads and the dates people have real life experience with lead acid going into decades.

It is from this experience and I mean through Nigerian eyes not (oyinbo YouTube videos) that people like me gain from.
So yes I can wait, when your lithium reach the 5 years life span. Then you can beat your chest and say I told you so. Till that team lead acid.

@Firethesun, I withdraw my assumption then. You know your "building". May God replenish your pocket as you replace these steptiles, amen.

I have used both Lead Acid and Lithium.

Lead Acid I started off with the typical sealed Luminous, Genus, Sinergy which all dissappointed then moved on to Flooded US Battery which also dissappointed then ultimately went for Lithium. When I say dissappointed, I mean they did not all make the promised cycle life despite being used within charge and discharge specs and best practices. For customer installations I used Quanta AGM which did better but mostly still fell short of the expected cycle life.

I ported to Lithium 2018/2019 ish, lived offgrid exclusively off 16 units of Pylontech US2000 - 3 years and several hundred cycles later they are still going strong and no discernible performance degradation, also Lithium allowed me to move from dreading customer calls (once you hear backup time is reducing you know lead acid don dey near end of life) to answering them with my full chest and only getting calls for capacity and feature upgrades and referrals for new business.

There are some use cases where lead acid may be sufficient - when a newbie asks me for advise I always tell them to stay with 12v systems because it gives more stability and longevity. Lithium is almost always a better option but needs a lot more bells and whistles (BMS and balancer circuitry) - I daresay the BMS and balancer is one key reason why Lithium tends to do so well and if one could make a Lead Acid BMS that could balance individual cells, the lead acid story might change a lot.

Really the bane of all battery systems is how to keep cells in series well balanced - whoever solves that problem will greatly extend his battery service life. The Lithium chemistries are mostly superior to lead acid but also a lot less forgiving of mistakes (overcharge/discharge)

samnaija:


You say you have used both lead and lithium. Fine George has a given a life span of his agm use 8yrs. Let us have the life span or how long you have gone lithium.
Or you just started using lithium.is the use up to 5yrs now .please I want to know.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I have used both Lead Acid and Lithium.

Lead Acid I started off with the typical sealed Luminous, Genus, Sinergy which all dissappointed then moved on to Flooded US Battery which also dissappointed then ultimately went for Lithium. When I say dissappointed, I mean they did not all make the promised cycle life despite being used within charge and discharge specs and best practices. For customer installations I used Quanta AGM which did better but mostly still fell short of the expected cycle life.

I ported to Lithium 2018/2019 ish, lived offgrid exclusively off 16 units of Pylontech US2000 - 3 years and several hundred cycles later they are still going strong and no discernible performance degradation, also Lithium allowed me to move from dreading customer calls (once you hear backup time is reducing you know lead acid don dey near end of life) to answering them with my full chest and only getting calls for capacity and feature upgrades and referrals for new business.

There are some use cases where lead acid may be sufficient - when a newbie asks me for advise I always tell them to stay with 12v systems because it gives more stability and longevity. Lithium is almost always a better option but needs a lot more bells and whistles (BMS and balancer circuitry) - I daresay the BMS and balancer is one key reason why Lithium tends to do so well and if one could make a Lead Acid BMS that could balance individual cells, the lead acid story might change a lot.

Really the bane of all battery systems is how to keep cells in series well balanced - whoever solves that problem will greatly extend his battery service life. The Lithium chemistries are mostly superior to lead acid but also a lot less forgiving of mistakes (overcharge/discharge)

Niyi thanks for information, no doubt lithium or lead have different chemistry. But both are batteries and can fail..

Noted thanks.

Juror:


I can confirm JA Solar and Jinko.
On different installations and they give optimum harvest.

Noted thanks.

kiekie1:


They're are all efficient

Available are:
Jinko solar
365 .... 100,000
545w .. 150,000

Era Solar
330w "poly" ... 89,000

JA Solar
415 .... 115,000
455w .. 124,000

Contact,
Smartcell global services
CALL ONLY:: 081-350-31951
WHATSAPP::: http://.us/w/?c=a46ea5

So based on the above discussion on Lithium versus Lead Acid Batteries.

Here are my choices

1. Quanta AGM 12V 200AH x 16
2. Deka AGM 12V 200AH x 16

3. Lithium - which brands do you recommend? I just saw Pylontech mentioned

In fairness to the thread, I have not really read past posts on this issue, I know I will need to do that.

My questions are:

1.Which brands do you recommend and why?
2. What is the difference in cost between 1 and 2 above and the 3 that you recommend.

Thanks.

samnaija:


If you have a big compound, set it up at ground level or you can build a car port with the panels as the roof.

Thank you

Oshomo12:


Ground mounting, provided u get space, the best way.

I appreciate

olopan:
You can have it installed in your compound on a shed for animal or storage room or the most common option of carport

I am beginning to lean towards this instead of a roof install.

Your input is appreciated.

samnaija:


You say you have used both lead and lithium. Fine George has a given a life span of his agm use 8yrs. Let us have the life span or how long you have gone lithium.
Or you just started using lithium.is the use up to 5yrs now .please I want to know.

My lithium bank isnt upto 5yrs.
Na from smell, dem dey sabi soup wey go sweet.

I can deduce from your statement/question that you hvnt really bothered to research these 2 chemistries.nor understand the physics behind it.
1C vs 0.1C comparison alone.....this debate is dead in the water


Lolz, anyway wetin be own sef.....
Am not talking about this shi,t again..person wey wan buy leadacid, mek im go ahead..person wey wan buy lithium...mek im go ahead....after all 1 kobo no dey enter my account which ever way.

FEGEITOK:
So based on the above discussion on Lithium versus Lead Acid Batteries.

Here are my choices

1. Quanta AGM 12V 200AH x 16
2. Deka AGM 12V 200AH x 16

3. Lithium - which brands do you recommend? I just saw Pylontech mentioned

In fairness to the thread, I have not really read past posts on this issue, I know I will need to do that.

My questions are:

1.Which brands do you recommend and why?
2. What is the difference in cost between 1 and 2 above and the 3 that you recommend.

Thanks.

I won't do 16 lead acids due to the following reasons
They can be prone to failure if not sized and balanced properly.
Lead acids are limited to either C10 or c20
If one battery has issues you will be forced to replace the whole 16.
You have to worry about your battery getting float charge everyday.
You will drain only 50 percent
Occupy space etc

You can try pylontec or other cheaper lifepo4 brands

If you have the funds to soak on 16 pieces of 12v batteries then sincerely LA is not your best bet. I will work on some assumptions, so bear with me and correct me anywhere l presumed wrongly
1) Capacity for money: 12v /200ampsx16 will give about 38kwh POTENTIALLY. At 50% DOD, that will be 19kwh of available energy for about 3 million .
At @ 700k/ 6kwh of lithium you will likely get 24 to 28kwh of Lithium considering Lithium's 90% plus DOD capability.
2) Charge and discharge rate tolerance favours Lithium
3) Lifespan: I am even presuming the same lifespan of 5years for both. However, If 5 years is my tolerance limit, I won't go for Pylontech with it's bells and whistles. I will go for a local assembly with some warranty/guarantee cover for some few years. The balance I will pass on getting more Capacity BECAUSE the main KOKO BE SAY : how much energy can I make use of now!!

NB: I started using Lithium in 2020. I have 5 different battery packs now including Pylon Tech US 3000. Total capacity of my packs is 24kwh. Prior to that I had more than 10 years experience of LA ( from AGM to tubular) . I still have some LA in service- total of 6 200amps 12vs, but likely NOT to procure new ones

FEGEITOK:
So based on the above discussion on Lithium versus Lead Acid Batteries.

Here are my choices

1. Quanta AGM 12V 200AH x 16
2. Deka AGM 12V 200AH x 16

3. Lithium - which brands do you recommend? I just saw Pylontech mentioned

In fairness to the thread, I have not really read past posts on this issue, I know I will need to do that.

My questions are:

1.Which brands do you recommend and why?
2. What is the difference in cost between 1 and 2 above and the 3 that you recommend.

Thanks.

why worry urself. when ur CC registers 28.8v, i want u to remember the unit serves ur loads and well as ur batteries thus ur bms is also correct because that is what it can get under loads. however, am a bit confused it still register lower voltage while charging with mains.

sharks776:
Hello everyone and professionals in this thread. Am having a problem with my setup and need help

My equipment
CC - Fangpusun 60a
Inverter - Felicity ivps3524 combined with charger
Battery - 2 wakatek 5kw lithium in parallel

Problem:
Both cc and inverter are set to charge at
Abs 28.8v
Flt 28.8v

However, during the day whenever the cc reads 28.8v, the bms of the battery will read 26.7v at most. This shows a difference of 1.1v in charging.

During the night, when the inverter is charging via grid and reads 28.8v the bms of the battery will be 27.3 or 4 max
I am thinking of going with the bms reading and adding at least 1v to the cc and inverter charger setting. I also came across this on YouTube

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxoY4QXwrIJw9Va7P_grNiSQdZuhwT66at

Help me pls, I really don't want to fry this new expensive batteries

samnaija:


You say you have used both lead and lithium. Fine George has a given a life span of his agm use 8yrs. Let us have the life span or how long you have gone lithium.
Or you just started using lithium.is the use up to 5yrs now .please I want to know.

honestly, i think George is right when he said each battery technology has it's merit and demerit. we all choose what works for us.
if am going to london, i can decide to fly electric plane or more conventional plane. each airplane technology differs as long as it gets the job done as desired. it a win-win situation here being off grid and its renewable.
am happy both of you recognised guiding rules of leadacid. that does not mean lithium has no guiding rules too.

as a DIY, i have broken almost every guiding rules, mix mono panels with poly, mixed and parallel 150w with 300w, mixed Gel batteries with AGM which infact still serves me 7yrs counting.
i am not saying it is the best practice anyway but so far it works for me from DIY view am ok. because i know the rule of 50% DOD which makes me double my lead acid to 48kwh bank. as it is am seeing 10yrs already from my lead acid and remember i may still make some cash as scrap later. so it is win win so far.

earthrealm:


My lithium bank isnt upto 5yrs.
Na from smell, dem dey sabi soup wey go sweet.

I can deduce from your statement/question that you hvnt really bothered to research these 2 chemistries.nor understand the physics behind it.
1C vs 0.1C comparison alone.....this debate is dead in the water


Lolz, anyway wetin be own sef.....
Am not talking about this shi,t again..person wey wan buy leadacid, mek im go ahead..person wey wan buy lithium...mek im go ahead....after all 1 kobo no dey enter my account which ever way.

My brother don't go there with research, this is a forum where people rub minds about their experience through alternative energy. Everyone does their research their own way, just like what I am doing now. Do you have 5yrs use of lithium let us sample from your journey. I don't think so .

efuro:


honestly, i think George is right when he said each battery technology has it's merit and demerit. we all choose what works for us.
if am going to london, i can decide to fly electric plane or more conventional plane. each airplane technology differs as long as it gets the job done as desired. it a win-win situation here being off grid and its renewable.
am happy both of you recognised guiding rules of leadacid. that does not mean lithium has no guiding rules too.

as a DIY, i have broken almost every guiding rules, mix mono panels with poly, mixed and parallel 150w with 300w, mixed Gel batteries with AGM which infact still serves me 7yrs counting.
i am not saying it is the best practice anyway but so far it works for me from DIY view am ok. because i know the rule of 50% DOD which makes me double my lead acid to 48kwh bank. as it is am seeing 10yrs already from my lead acid and remember i may still make some cash as scrap later. so it is win win so far.

My brother you hit the nail on the head. Everyone has his story on this journey, you are like me .people will say don't mix batteries of different ages, well guess I have been there and survived for years.
My very first set of batteries where (2v 500ah ) 6 in number lasted me 5yrs. They were gel. No regrets.

samnaija:


You don't get where I am going. Most people here are like you just starting lithium.all of a sudden you have vast experience.

My brother check the threads and the dates people have real life experience with lead acid going into decades.

It is from this experience and I mean through Nigerian eyes not (oyinbo YouTube videos) that people like me gain from.
So yes I can wait, when your lithium reach the 5 years life span. Then you can beat your chest and say I told you so. Till that team lead acid.

We have different mode of operation, your approach is to wait to hear from user update, mine is to read about the chemistry of the batteries and yes those YouTube experience as well. None of these should remove the fact that lithium is way better chemistry than lead acid, it's just a fact and you don't need a 5 years user experience for that. Nevertheless go team lead acid

PS am sure there are people here using lithium for over 5 years already....by next year you can ask me questions as I should be in that category by then

I just saw now that you wanted 38.4kWh lead acid bank? The money you would put down here would be better invested in a solid LFP battery I would say.

16 units of Quanta 200Ah would cost between 2.7 to 3.2million Naira - it is very doubtful that you will use those batteries beyond the 4 year mark esp in a 48v config. The same expenditure would fetch you 28.6kWh of DIY EVE LFP with some change to spare and you will certainly go over 5 years with those.

To compare like for like 28.6kWh of EVE will give you about 23kWh useable capacity which is about the max (60% DoD) useable capacity you could safely pull from the 16 Quantas and at that discharge level for lead acid they may not make the promised life span.

I would avoid Deka because although a solid battery, field experience here in Naija shows that most installers cannot set the correct temperature compensated charge parameters and the battery therefore dies quickly from abuse - GEL batteries of which Deka is one are very intolerant of overcharge.

If you must go with Quanta, then use it with a 12v inverter - lead acid does amazingly well when you don't put them in series beyond how the battery came from manufacture. This advise will be hard to implement if you are incorporating solar so you may be forced to go 24v or 48v - in that case you must pay great attention to how to keep the batteries in series balanced else calamity will quickly result - do not be deceived by the el cheapo balancers that make the rounds on this thread - very likely they will fail you.

Pylontech vs DIY LFP - things have evolved now to the point where you can achieve thesame performance as Pylontech at perhaps half of the price when you pickup a quality prismatic LFP battery and couple with a good BMS. The DIY builds are also more serviceable if ever there is a warranty claim.

FEGEITOK:
So based on the above discussion on Lithium versus Lead Acid Batteries.

Here are my choices

1. Quanta AGM 12V 200AH x 16
2. Deka AGM 12V 200AH x 16

3. Lithium - which brands do you recommend? I just saw Pylontech mentioned

In fairness to the thread, I have not really read past posts on this issue, I know I will need to do that.

My questions are:

1.Which brands do you recommend and why?
2. What is the difference in cost between 1 and 2 above and the 3 that you recommend.

Thanks.

Perciy:
Hello Gurus,

Please what can a 2kva/24V inverter, 60A PMW solar charge controller, 4 280watts solar panels and 2 220AH/12V tubular batteries power?

And please are the following reliable?

Aquablue inverter,
Success Power PMW solar charge controller,
Tiger solar panels,
Genus invomax tubular battery.

Been used for 2 years, It's on relocation sales, will it be a good buy and how much will be considerate to offer.

I appreciate your inputs. Thanks

Please I need your advises. Thanks

ojeysky:


We have different mode of operation, your approach is to wait to hear from user update, mine is to read about the chemistry of the batteries and yes those YouTube experience as well. None of these should remove the fact that lithium is way better chemistry than lead acid, it's just a fact and you don't need a 5 years user experience for that. Nevertheless go team lead acid


PS am sure there are people here using lithium for over 5 years already....by next year you can ask me questions as I should be in that category by then

Till then bro.....

We sell charge controller and solar panels at Solar depot, kindly send us a message on Whatsapp or call 09069125453 or visit our website @ www.solardeptng.com ...Thank you.

konami001:
Are there any noteworthy sellers of the charge controller and solar panels around in naija? Would love to know prices of each compo,

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zeestone99:


I won't do 16 lead acids due to the following reasons
They can be prone to failure if not sized and balanced properly.
Lead acids are limited to either C10 or c20
If one battery has issues you will be forced to replace the whole 16.
You have to worry about your battery getting float charge everyday.
You will drain only 50 percent
Occupy space etc

You can try pylontec or other cheaper lifepo4 brands

I am rethinking.

Thanks to this thread and your input.

durodee:
If you have the funds to soak on 16 pieces of 12v batteries then sincerely LA is not your best bet. I will work on some assumptions, so bear with me and correct me anywhere l presumed wrongly
1) Capacity for money: 12v /200ampsx16 will give about 38kwh POTENTIALLY. At 50% DOD, that will be 19kwh of available energy.
At @ 700k/ 6kwh of lithium you will likely get 24 to 28kwh of Lithium considering Lithium's 90% plus DOD capability.
2) Charge and discharge rate tolerance favours Lithium
3) Lifespan: I am even presuming the same lifespan of 5years for both. However, If 5 years is my tolerance limit, I won't go for Pylontech with it's bells and whistles. I will go for a local assembly with some warranty/guarantee cover for some few years. The balance I will pass on getting more Capacity BECAUSE the main KOKO BE SAY : how much energy can I make use of now!!

NB: I started using Lithium in 2020. Has 5 different battery packs now including Pylon Tech US 3000. Total capacity of my packs is 24kwh. Prior to that I had more than 10 years experience of LA ( from AGM to tubular) . I still have some LA in service- total of 6 200amps 12vs, but likely NOT to procure new ones

Going back to the drawing board.

Thanks for sharing your personal experience.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I just saw now that you wanted 38.4kWh lead acid bank? The money you would put down here would be better invested in a solid LFP battery I would say.

16 units of Quanta 200Ah would cost between 2.7 to 3.2million Naira - it is very doubtful that you will use those batteries beyond the 4 year mark esp in a 48v config. The same expenditure would fetch you 28.6kWh of DIY EVE LFP with some change to spare and you will certainly go over 5 years with those.

To compare like for like 28.6kWh of EVE will give you about 23kWh useable capacity which is about the max (60% DoD) useable capacity you could safely pull from the 16 Quantas and at that discharge level for lead acid they may not make the promised life span.

I would avoid Deka because although a solid battery, field experience here in Naija shows that most installers cannot set the correct temperature compensated charge parameters and the battery therefore dies quickly from abuse - GEL batteries of which Deka is one are very intolerant of overcharge.


If you must go with Quanta, then use it with a 12v inverter - lead acid does amazingly well when you don't put them in series beyond how the battery came from manufacture. This advise will be hard to implement if you are incorporating solar so you may be forced to go 24v or 48v - in that case you must pay great attention to how to keep the batteries in series balanced else calamity will quickly result - do not be deceived by the el cheapo balancers that make the rounds on this thread - very likely they will fail you.


Pylontech vs DIY LFP - things have evolved now to the point where you can achieve thesame performance as Pylontech at perhaps half of the price when you pickup a quality prismatic LFP battery and couple with a good BMS. The DIY builds are also more serviceable if ever there is a warranty claim.

I will go DIY but it is clear I have got a lot to learn.

Will first double the capacity of the current system based on LA, then take the time to study LFP so I that I can be sure I am taking the right steps as I plan the switch.

Thank you very much for this level of detail in responding.

Yes I am going solar, I am going for 8.5 KW PV.

I will be running a 48V setup.

I will investigate the part in italics.

As for the bolded, does this also apply to a setup of just 2 batteries? I mean in particular the statement: "how to keep the batteries in series balanced", do I need to that to a 2 battery setup?

By the way my current setup is 24V.