samnaija:


Micro inverters are not common in Nigeria. Besides hybrid inverter has taken over Nigeria basically does the same converts dc to ac .

Thanks for the feedback

adrusa:


I will personally not recommend microinverters for several reasons.
1. Cost. It is likely to be more expensive as each panel will have its own inverter. If you add more panels you need to buy more microinverters.
2. You end up with more failure points.
3. It is more technically involving and I doubt that our local installers have experience with it.

Thanks so much. So are hybrid inverters really the substitute for micro inverters? Trying to avoid the case where the inverter develops a fault and all systems shut down.

TechGeek777:


Appreciate bro for the numerous responses.

With a charge controller that accepts inputs, for equalization purpose, is the balancer still needed or does the equalization also acts as balancer?

Hope you are googling the answers to these your questions as well, so combined with the info you get here, you would end up with a broader
Knowledge base.

For flooded/tubular batteries, from experience...the act of regular equalization keeps the batteries balanced, so a balancer isnt critical for such setups

toyeoye:


Thanks so much. So are hybrid inverters really the substitute for micro inverters? Trying to avoid the case where the inverter develops a fault and all systems shut down.

Hybrids have more electronics, hence are more sensitive and prone to failures from a variety of factors. Dirty Ac voltage, lightning strikes, poor earthing, current leakage etc.install protective devices and ur hybrids will last a long time.
Also good to hv a smaller back up inverter...just in case,

TechGeek777:


Appreciate bro for the numerous responses.

With a charge controller that accepts inputs, for equalization purpose, is the balancer still needed or does the equalization also acts as balancer?

Equalization is a process that is carried out once a month, to ensure all your batteries are adequately over charged. Even up to a point the distilled water may reach boiling point.

This is to ensure that your batteries don't sulphate, from inadequate charging .

And the batteries, within a battery bank all reach or past the bulk voltage set by your charge controller.

Now during this period of equalization the battery whose voltage has always been higher than the others will always be Infront during equalization and after equalization.

The balancer job essential is to redistribute charges from batteries that always get more charge, to the batteries that need it hence the balance. The equalization process is not sensitive to individual battery needs within a bank.

I followed this convo with great interest but kept quiet so as not to court controversy

I was going to say originally that you do not need balancers if your batteries are flooded - monthly equalization charges are typically sufficient to ensure battery balance provided your batteries came together already balanced in the first place (you charge each to full individually before putting them in series)

The primary method for keeping lead acid batteries balanced is a 'controlled overcharge' - for flooded where you can 'overvolt' the batteries and top up water the periodic equalizations work best.

For AGM and GEL you cannot equalize but you can take a 12v charger to each 12v battery string and ensure a full charge by spending time at or close to the peak absorb voltage the batteries are rated for.

I have done some extensive work/testing on balancers and my conclusion is that they are mostly ineffective except for very tiny differences in 'seriesed' battery capacity or state of charge.

The best method is to employ smart 12v chargers for each 12v battery so that you can deliver a full charge - if you have a 48v system - 4 chargers, 24v system 2 chargers and so on allow you to do this easily and quickly without breaking up your battery string - even when equalizing flooded batteries, it is best to do it on a per battery basis (12v) vs in series.

So in the diagram so usefully provided, replace the HA02 balancers with standalone 12v chargers and you may witness an extreme boost in battery longevity.

Lastly using chargers to ensure battery balance may require use of grid/gen vs solar as you need to spend some time at the balancing voltage. If you must use solar then a mechanism to only activate the chargers after the batteries are up to/above absorb voltage and deactivate the once solar drops too low to keep things up.

At this point, the scheme begins to look very complicated but this is not very different from the setup needed to keep Lithium packs balanced (the BMS balance circuit) and certainly a worthwhile investment for the user who has a a large lead acid pack (8 or more batteries)

TechGeek777:


Appreciate bro for the numerous responses.

With a charge controller that accepts inputs, for equalization purpose, is the balancer still needed or does the equalization also acts as balancer?

This your write up is gold! Always good to read someone who gets it!

I wanted to add some perspective about balancers.

HA02 balancers rated to move 5a of current but does so only so very briefly (stops as soon as the voltages converge but then voltage convergence is not SoC convergence!!!) and then drops to just tiny amounts much less than 1a which are insufficient to effect real SoC convergence in a real life moderate to large size battery bank.

Victron balancers and Fangpusun clones activate the balance only at high voltages and move about 0.7a (1a max) - the issue here is the amount of balance current is too small to help large differences in battery capacity and needs the batteries to spend a long time above the balance voltage for the balance to complete (impractical with solar charging and again only possible with a lot of time spent on grid/gen)

Net result - you want each 12v battery to get a full charge and spend some time soaking this charge in - it is unlikely to happen if the batteries are in series (one battery will always tend to overcharge) and so the only way to achieve good results is dedicate a 12v charger to each 12v battery string and let them do a thorough battery charge - whether you are equalizing flooded battery or 'controlled overcharging' GEL or AGM, this is the way to go - battery maintenance is best done at the single battery level and not in series.

The question then comes what to do with 2v and 6v standalone batteries. I have left that to the more vibrant new generation of enthusiasts to figure out

samnaija:


.....

Now during this period of equalization the battery whose voltage has always been higher than the others will always be Infront during equalization and after equalization.

The balancer's job essentially is to redistribute charge from batteries that always get more charge, to the batteries that need it hence the 'balance'. The equalization process is not sensitive to individual battery needs within a bank.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
This your write up is gold! Always good to read someone who gets it!

I wanted to add some perspective about balancers.

HA02 balancers rated to move 5a of current but does so only so very briefly (stops as soon as the voltages converge but then voltage convergence is not SoC convergence!!!) and then drops to just tiny amounts much less than 1a which are insufficient to effect real SoC convergence in a real life moderate to large size battery bank.

Victron balancers and Fangpusun clones activate the balance only at high voltages and move about 0.7a (1a max) - the issue here is the amount of balance current is too small to help large differences in battery capacity and needs the batteries to spend a long time above the balance voltage for the balance to complete (impractical with solar charging and again only possible with a lot of time spent on grid/gen)

Net result - you want each 12v battery to get a full charge and spend some time soaking this charge in - it is unlikely to happen if the batteries are in series (one battery will always tend to overcharge) and so the only way to achieve good results is dedicate a 12v charger to each 12v battery string and let them do a thorough battery charge - whether you are equalizing flooded battery or 'controlled overcharging' GEL or AGM, this is the way to go - battery maintenance is best done at the single battery level and not in series.

The question then comes what to do with 2v and 6v standalone batteries. I have left that to the more vibrant new generation of enthusiasts to figure out

Niyi what you suggested is very true about 12v charger on individual battery, my previous 24v system this configuration worked very well for it.

But with the bank I have now, to incooperate such will be tasking . So what I deployed were each 48v 200ah bank has a dedicated 48v charger.

Thank you for keeping an open mind boss.

The only sure way to do battery maintenance is at the unit/indiviidual battery level - a man of your advanced skill level can surely figure out a scheme that works.

Even if you have multiple 48v banks in parallel - just 4pcs of 12v chargers will do the work - anyone who has mastered the physics of battery interconnect will see that there is a 12v parallel line between some sets of batteries in a bank whether setup as 24v or 48v or more in series.

Of course the working assumption in all my examples is that you have 12v standalone batteries to make up the battery bank. Just to keep the example simple

What I tell people with small systems is to do 12v lead acid - it is simple, stable and the batteries last amazingly long even for average quality or already used batteries.

24v for moderate sized banks and this keeps your risks of capacity drift and efforts to ensure a true full charge to a minimum - although 48v nominal is simpler from the point of view of efficiency, wiring costs and maxing out solar production at lowest costs, you sacrifice a lot in battery stability and longevity unless you got very well matched batteries or you have a scheme to keep them well matched.

Series connections are the bane of all battery systems! The more you have batteries in series, the higher the risks of imbalance that will reduce available energy and shorten service life.

samnaija:


Niyi what you suggested is very true about 12v charger on individual battery, my previous 24v system this configuration worked very well for it.

But with the bank I have now, to incooperate such will be tasking . So what I deployed were each 48v 200ah bank has a dedicated 48v charger.

i finally got a tubular battery and an inverter but the inverter makes a hissing high pitched noise that is very irriitating to me. is that how it is supposed to sound? will i get used to the sound?

Donbigi2:
i finally got a tubular battery and an inverter but the inverter makes a hissing high pitched noise that is very irriitating to me. is that how it is supposed to sound? will i get used to the sound?

name of inverter? Don't think it is supposed to do that.

Do you want Original Gaston Battery in Large Quantity , you can call/Watsapp us on 08066332919. We are located in Lagos and Abuja & we do Nationwide Delivery

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Thank you for keeping an open mind boss.

The only sure way to do battery maintenance is at the unit/indiviidual battery level - a man of your advanced skill level can surely figure out a scheme that works.

Even if you have multiple 48v banks in parallel - just 4pcs of 12v chargers will do the work - anyone who has mastered the physics of battery interconnect will see that there is a 12v parallel line between some sets of batteries in a bank whether setup as 24v or 48v or more in series.

Of course the working assumption in all my examples is that you have 12v standalone batteries to make up the battery bank. Just to keep the example simple

What I tell people with small systems is to do 12v lead acid - it is simple, stable and the batteries last amazingly long even for average quality or already used batteries.

24v for moderate sized banks and this keeps your risks of capacity drift and efforts to ensure a true full charge to a minimum - although 48v nominal is simpler from the point of view of efficiency, wiring costs and maxing out solar production at lowest costs, you sacrifice a lot in battery stability and longevity unless you got very well matched batteries or you have a scheme to keep them well matched.

Series connections are the bane of all battery systems! The more you have batteries in series, the higher the risks of imbalance that will reduce available energy and shorten service life.

Did you study Electronics?

Thanks for this epistle!

damilonya:


Please check your email. Thanks, Sir

Ok, will revert

toyeoye:


Thanks so much. So are hybrid inverters really the substitute for micro inverters? Trying to avoid the case where the inverter develops a fault and all systems shut down.

You ask about Micro inverters , like everyone mentioned the cost and availability is a no in Nigeria.

As for the hybrid inverter, some will give same operations as the micro inverter.
Now it has ironed before in the forum, if you are going for this , it is always good to have a back up , inverter in case the main hybrid is gone for repairs. Like someone suggested that all necessary precautions in protecting your inverter,
In fact both hybrid and standalone inverters.

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Good morning professionals... Please I've decided to go for tubular batteries for my solar power systems... Which brand of the tubular battery is the best?

dbshaywhy:
Good morning professionals... Please I've decided to go for tubular batteries for my solar power systems... Which brand of the tubular battery is the best?

Check back a few pages where we have listed the names of authorized dealers of original battery brands and their addresses for you to purchase from. Cheers.

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toyeoye:


Thanks so much. So are hybrid inverters really the substitute for micro inverters? Trying to avoid the case where the inverter develops a fault and all systems shut down.

Inverter is often the most catastrophic failure point. Once it goes down, you are in the dark. My trick is to always have a spare inverter. About 2 months ago, I was to travel to Abuja and night before the day of my flight, my inverter packed up. A thunderstrike took out the inverter. I had to set up the spare that night or my people will have no reliable electricity till I return.

So, have a backup inverter if your system is critical to you.

WE BUY DEAD/SCRAP BATTERIES!!!

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earthrealm:


Hope you are googling the answers to these your questions as well, so combined with the info you get here, you would end up with a broader
Knowledge base.

For flooded/tubular batteries, from experience...the act of regular equalization keeps the batteries balanced, so a balancer isnt critical for such setups

Yes boss, but some/most of the answers got me more confused, hence I decided to ask experts here.

Assuming I use the CC to set higher voltage for equalization purpose and two hours within the process, the sun is no longer bright or it starts raining, how can I use Gen to complete the 4 - 6 hours of equalization recommended per month?

samnaija:


Equalization is a process that is carried out once a month, to ensure all your batteries are adequately over charged. Even up to a point the distilled water may reach boiling point.

This is to ensure that your batteries don't sulphate, from inadequate charging .

And the batteries, within a battery bank all reach or past the bulk voltage set by your charge controller.

Now during this period of equalization the battery whose voltage has always been higher than the others will always be Infront during equalization and after equalization.

The balancer job essential is to redistribute charges from batteries that always get more charge, to the batteries that need it hence the balance. The equalization process is not sensitive to individual battery needs within a bank.

Thanks, does it mean balancer is still needed irrespective of equalization via CC?

TechGeek777:


Thanks, does it mean balancer is still needed irrespective of equalization via CC?

Has long has your battery bank is in series, the voltage will eventually drift from each.
It is advisable right from the beginning.

Penuelseun:
name of inverter? Don't think it is supposed to do that.

Microtek

TechGeek777:


Yes boss, but some/most of the answers got me more confused, hence I decided to ask experts here.

Assuming I use the CC to set higher voltage for equalization purpose and two hours within the process, the sun is no longer bright or it starts raining, how can I use Gen to complete the 4 - 6 hours of equalization recommended per month?

ITS NOT SET IN STONE, there is some flexibility to the equalization thingy.....the 4hrs...the 30 day frequency...all are recommended, but nuthin catastrophic will happen if u don't follow it religiously....just free your mind and try to follow it as best as you could. if u are unable to achieve 4hrs equalization with your solar.....wch is almost impossible..unless you have a n oversized array. if you don't, you can leave the equalization voltage on the CC for 2 to 3 days...so u are sure within that period 1hr here, 30 mins there...the cumulative would be enough to achieve a good level of equalization

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I followed this convo with great interest but kept quiet so as not to court controversy

I was going to say originally that you do not need balancers if your batteries are flooded - monthly equalization charges are typically sufficient to ensure battery balance provided your batteries came together already balanced in the first place (you charge each to full individually before putting them in series)

The primary method for keeping lead acid batteries balanced is a 'controlled overcharge' - for flooded where you can 'overvolt' the batteries and top up water the periodic equalizations work best.

For AGM and GEL you cannot equalize but you can take a 12v charger to each 12v battery string and ensure a full charge by spending time at or close to the peak absorb voltage the batteries are rated for.

I have done some extensive work/testing on balancers and my conclusion is that they are mostly ineffective except for very tiny differences in 'seriesed' battery capacity or state of charge.

The best method is to employ smart 12v chargers for each 12v battery so that you can deliver a full charge - if you have a 48v system - 4 chargers, 24v system 2 chargers and so on allow you to do this easily and quickly without breaking up your battery string - even when equalizing flooded batteries, it is best to do it on a per battery basis (12v) vs in series.

So in the diagram so usefully provided, replace the HA02 balancers with standalone 12v chargers and you may witness an extreme boost in battery longevity.

Lastly using chargers to ensure battery balance may require use of grid/gen vs solar as you need to spend some time at the balancing voltage. If you must use solar then a mechanism to only activate the chargers after the batteries are up to/above absorb voltage and deactivate the once solar drops too low to keep things up.

At this point, the scheme begins to look very complicated but this is not very different from the setup needed to keep Lithium packs balanced (the BMS balance circuit) and certainly a worthwhile investment for the user who has a a large lead acid pack (8 or more batteries)

It's noted boss. The battery will either be 2 * 150ah tubular OR 2 * 200ah tubular.

Considering both batteries, which of the charger brand would you recommend and how many Amp?

toyeoye:


Thanks for the feedback

How can I be of help to you??

You sent me an email, but I cannot access the email linked to my nairaland account

NiyiOmoIyunade:
This your write up is gold! Always good to read someone who gets it!

I wanted to add some perspective about balancers.

HA02 balancers rated to move 5a of current but does so only so very briefly (stops as soon as the voltages converge but then voltage convergence is not SoC convergence!!!) and then drops to just tiny amounts much less than 1a which are insufficient to effect real SoC convergence in a real life moderate to large size battery bank.

Victron balancers and Fangpusun clones activate the balance only at high voltages and move about 0.7a (1a max) - the issue here is the amount of balance current is too small to help large differences in battery capacity and needs the batteries to spend a long time above the balance voltage for the balance to complete (impractical with solar charging and again only possible with a lot of time spent on grid/gen)

Net result - you want each 12v battery to get a full charge and spend some time soaking this charge in - it is unlikely to happen if the batteries are in series (one battery will always tend to overcharge) and so the only way to achieve good results is dedicate a 12v charger to each 12v battery string and let them do a thorough battery charge - whether you are equalizing flooded battery or 'controlled overcharging' GEL or AGM, this is the way to go - battery maintenance is best done at the single battery level and not in series.

The question then comes what to do with 2v and 6v standalone batteries. I have left that to the more vibrant new generation of enthusiasts to figure out

Knowledge too much for this place oh, I have to read some comments 5 times before I understand the message.

But am happy I am learning from experts.

1. Does this dedicated charger replace the inbuilt charger with 18A that came with Luminous 1600va inverter?

2. Do I always need to charge the batteries with this dedicated charger or it is only needed when balancing/equalization is required?