here's a religious test.... Hope you all studied hard...

1. which of the following is the most compelling evidence for the existence of an intelligent and loving Designer ?

a. a Caribbean sunset
b. the screams of a baby seal as it is torn apart by a shark
c. the first time your perfect new baby smiles at you
d. the speed of the Ebola virus converting an African child's organs into liquid..


2.. a deeply devout Catholic couple has just returned from their fiftieth anniversary celebration , when suddenly the husband falls to the ground, clutching his chest. What is the most productive action for the wife to take ?

a. call 911
b. put him in the car and race to the hospital herself
c. administer CPR
d. fall on her knees and pray to the Lord to spare his life


3. You are a product tester and frequently bring your work home . Yesterday, while dressed in a flame resistant suit (up to 3,000 degrees) and carrying the latest model fire extinguisher , you discover your neighbor's house is on fire . As the flames quickly spread, you stand and watch your neighbor's new baby burn to death. .which of the following best describes your behavior?

a. All-powerful
b. All-knowing
c. All-loving
d. Mysterious


4. one day while jogging in the park, you see a maniac with a butcher knife about to attack a six-year old girl . Which would be the most morally proper action to take?

a. grab the nearest rock and beat off the attacker
b. call the police on your cell phone
c. shout "POLICE!" and run toward the attacker in a threatening manner
d. calmly walk away, because God works in mysterious ways, and what appears "evil" to our finite human mind , may in fact be part of a vaster plan in God's infinite mind , so it's best not to interfere...


5. you are the incarnated Son of the all-powerful and all-loving Creator of the universe . what would be a good way to demonstrate your compassion and power?

a. cure cancer forever
b. cause all the earth's deserts to bloom with food crops
c. unite the world with a common language and an end to poverty
d. kill a fig tree, conjure up a jug of wine and follow it up by walking on water


6. since we can never "know" whether or not a God exists .... it is fundamentally a matter of "faith"... it's best to be a believer since you have nothing to lose, but everything to lose if your disbelief is incorrect . Keeping in mind that the fate of your soul depends on the right choice, in which God should you place your belief? for extra credit...., include a brief essay justifying your choice, along with the reasons why you reject the other three...

a. Zeus
b. Quetzalcoatl
c. Vishnu
d. The Holy Trinity*

(*note: Choice D assumes you were born around 400 ad. or later, after the invention of the Trinity)


7. you are the Creator of the universe . your chosen people are a tribe of nomadic herdsmen , presently in bondage on one of the millions of your planets . Their ruler is being quite obstinate. Keeping in mind that you possess not only infinite power but also infinite love , your best course of action would be to:

a. cause the ruler to drop dead of a heart attack
b. cause the ruler to fall off a cliff
c. visit the ruler in a dream and persuade him to let your people go
d. slaughter a great number of innocent babies who had nothing to do with the ruler's policies


8. you are a Starfleet Federation explorer in the process of cataloging two newly discovered planets . The majority of the inhabitants of each planet believe in a deity..., but they are two different deities. Deity "X" is said to be not only all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing, but the designer of a marvelously complex and ordered world . Deity "Y" is said to be indifferent , absent, unconcerned with the affairs of his planet, and some even say evil...... Which god rules over which planet....?

PLANET A: has apparently achieved a state of advanced benign equilibrium in which there are no viruses or diseases , and only a very small number of natural disasters, which, when they do strike., always eliminate only the sinful and evil . The inhabitants, both plant and animal, have learned to maintain their existence through photosynthesis , and thus do not have to kill and eat each other in order to survive.. There are no "birth defects;" every inhabitant comes into existence perfectly formed and equipped for a long and productive life.
Deity X_____
Deity Y_____

PLANET B: adorned with many examples of beauty and order , it is also constantly beset by hurricanes, earthquakes,, tsunamis, floods, volcanoes, lightning bolts, viruses, disfiguring diseases, parasites, leeches , flies, crop destroying pests and many other phenomena which afflict both the innocent and the evil.. Every life form on the planet can only sustain its existence through the destruction and consumption of other life forms. some of the inhabitants are born with a crippling condition called a "birth defect",.... which condemns them to living extremely limited , short or painful lives.
Deity X_____
Deity Y_____


9. what is the number of children born without arms or legs that have been miraculously restored by a visit to the shrine at Lourdes, France ?

a. too many to count
b. over 1,000
c. several dozen
d.zero, but only because their faith was not strong enough


10. as we all know, there is only one true religion ... what is the one true religion in each of the following circumstances ?

a. you are born in Karnak in 3000 b.c .
b. you are born in Bombay in 300 b.c.
c. you are born in Baghdad in 900 a.d
d. you are born in Mexico City in 1956 a.d.

11 . although you are new at golf.., you have just hit a beautiful 200yard drive
and your ball has landed on a blade of grass near the cup at Hole 3. the green contains ten million blades of grass . the odds of your ball landing on that blade of grass are 10,000,000 to one against, too improbable to have happened by mere chance . What is the explanation

a. the wind guided it
b. your muscles guided it
c. there is no need for an explanation
d. you consciously designed your shot to land on that particular blade


12. which of the following is most likely to be true , and why ?

a. Romulus was the son of God...., born to a mortal human virgin
b. Dionysus turned water into wine
c. Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from the dead.
d. Jesus Christ was the son of God , born to a mortal virgin, turned water into wine , and raised a man from the dead


13. conceding that torture is permissible under certain conditions....., which of the following would be the best justification ?

a. your prisoner is the only one who knows the date and time of an assassination attempt on the Pope
b. your prisoner is the only one who knows where a nuclear device has been planted in Washington dc
c. your prisoner is the only one who knows where a vial of nerve gas has been placed in the London water supply system
d. your prisoner has announced that the earth revolves around the sun


14. we know that Christianity is true because the Gospel writers, inspired by God who can make no error.... recorded the founding events.... for example , on the first Easter morning , the visitors to the tomb were greeted by which of the following:

a. a young man (Mark 16:5)
b. no, no, it was no man, it was an angel (Matthew 28:2-5)
c. you're both wrong , it was two men (Luke 24:4)
d. damn it, there was nobody there ! (John 20 :1-2)


15. according to inerrant Scripture , the Savior prayed alone in the garden while the three disciples who accompanied him had fallen asleep . how did the gospel writer know the words of that prayer ?

a. Jesus left them written down under a rock
b. they were recorded on a primitive taping device
c. the gospel writer was psychic
d. the three disciples were later hypnotized and asked to recall the prayer


16. according to at least one sainted church father,.. one of the pleasures of the saved will be to behold the agony of the damned . what would be the best time of day in heaven for a mother to behold the agony of her only son...

a. early in the morning before it gets too crowded
b. mid day when she can compare notes and share the celebration with other mothers
c. late at night when she can enjoy the flames in starker contrast


17. in the Judeo-Christian tradition , we always look to the Bible as a guide .. in this example , your teenage son has returned home from the prom intoxicated . The Bible's instruction is:

a. sit him down for a heart to heart talk
b. enroll him in AA
c. take away his driving privilege for one month
d. smash his head in with rocks..

18. in this example , your son-in-law, returned from his honeymoon , has just told you he suspects your daughter was not a virgin on their wedding night... wishing to abide by God' s holy rules as laid out in the Bible..., you should:

a. ask him if he was a virgin before you do anything
b. advise him to forgive her
c.talk to your daughter
d. go find those rocks !!!


19. you are eating lunch at a crowded fast food restaurant , occupied mostly by children , when suddenly a gunman bursts in , screams "..do not question or test me!," .....and sprays the room with bullets. Ten people are killed instantly, many more grievously wounded , but somehow you escape unharmed. His ammunition expended , the gunman collapses to the floor . what should you do ?

a. call the police and wait for them to arrive
b. call the police and leave
c. risk death by asking the gunman why he did it, even though he told you not to
d. fall on your knees and give thanks and praise to the gunman for sparing your life


20. why did God show his backside to Moses ,like as described in Holy Scripture, Ex.33:23?

a. he invented everything , and this was simply the first mooning
b. he was really ticked off when Moses dropped the tablets...
c. he was piqued , having just discovered his almighty powers were useless against chariots of iron (Judges 1:19)
d. Moses was too serious and needed to lighten up a little


21. Jesus was God , and God knows all things.., including all the medical knowledge that will ever be known...why did Jesus blame demons for the case of epilepsy he cured ?

a. he was suffering from a temporary case of "brain freeze"
b. the Aramaic word for "demon" is the same as the word for "cranial malfunction"
c. Neurology was not his specialty
d. in first-century Palestine , demons really did cause epilepsy . this affliction only began to be caused by anomalous electrochemical brain activity after about 1850 a.d.


22. this morning's paper carries a story about a suburban father who became so enraged with his disobedient children that he carried them both to the backyard pool where he drowned them, along with their puppy,..... their kitten,... and their hamster . how should this father be treated ?

a. he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law
b. he should be banished from the town
c. h should be lynched to save the taxpayers money
d. the townspeople should gather together to sing hymns of praise to him


23. this morning I started my day by insulting my mother in public, then punched out my father, my brother, and my sister ..then I gathered up all my clothes, sold them to a second-hand store, and with the proceeds bought a used Uzi and 50 rounds of ammunition. Next.... , I went down to the animal shelter and injected all the dogs with a drug that caused them to go insane and dive into the nearby canal where they all drowned . by this time I was hungry , so I went over to my neighbor's apple orchard and burned it down , because I wanted an orange and there weren't any. On the way home , I stopped at the local steel mill to discuss my philosophy of life with some of the guys . they laughed at me and said to stow it , so I tossed them all into the blast furnace. that night I discovered my son looking at a copy of Playboy. concerned for his future welfare , I cut off his right hand. What historical character did my activities today most resemble ?

a. Genghis Khan
b. Charles Manson
c. Adolph Hitler
d. Jesus Christ


24. down through the ages, who has been most responsible for the medical discoveries that have relieved untold amounts of suffering and pain...., and extended the length of that most sacred of creations, human life ?

a. Medical doctors
b. Research biologists
c. Chemists
d. The Catholic Church


25. a great sadness has come into your life which you feel you cannot bear.... a friend informs you of a free counseling service which has never failed to aid and comfort many others...you call the counselor , the phone rings and rings with no answer , you finally hang up ...what is the most likely explanation ?

a. the counselor is sitting by the phone but not answering in order to test your faith in him
b. the counselor always stands ready to hear your pleas for help, but sometimes the answer is "no"
c. the counselor will not answer because he wants you to profit by the spiritual strength that only comes through suffering..
d. the counselor is not home



ESSAY QUESTION

while it is true that there have been and still are many different gods and many different religions , they are really just the various names by which various cultures approach the same God . Explain how and why each of the following is the same God:

Quetzalcoatl, who wants you to skin a young virgin alive, then put on the skin and dance....
Shiva, who wants you to pray over his peniss ,
Allah , who wants you to fly airliners into buildings ,
Catholic God who speaks directly through the Pope ,..
Baptist God..who most definitely does not..
Jesus ,who wants you to castrate yourself to ensure arrival in heaven...
Jehovah , who any day now... is going to kill everyone on the earth except for his Witnesses...

Here's my question. Where do atheists get their morality from?

midnight378:
11 . although you are new at golf.., you have just hit a beautiful 200yard drive
and your ball has landed on a blade of grass near the cup at Hole 3. the green contains ten million blades of grass . the odds of your ball landing on that blade of grass are 10,000,000 to one against, too improbable to have happened by mere chance . What is the explanation

a. the wind guided it
b. your muscles guided it
c. there is no need for an explanation
d. you consciously designed your shot to land on that particular blade


12. which of the following is most likely to be true , and why ?

a. Romulus was the son of God...., born to a mortal human virgin
b. Dionysus turned water into wine
c. Apollonius of Tyana raised a girl from the dead.
d. Jesus Christ was the son of God , born to a mortal virgin, turned water into wine , and raised a man from the dead


13. conceding that torture is permissible under certain conditions....., which of the following would be the best justification ?

a. your prisoner is the only one who knows the date and time of an assassination attempt on the Pope
b. your prisoner is the only one who knows where a nuclear device has been planted in Washington dc
c. your prisoner is the only one who knows where a vial of nerve gas has been placed in the London water supply system
d. your prisoner has announced that the earth revolves around the sun


14. we know that Christianity is true because the Gospel writers, inspired by God who can make no error.... recorded the founding events.... for example , on the first Easter morning , the visitors to the tomb were greeted by which of the following:

a. a young man (Mark 16:5)
b. no, no, it was no man, it was an angel (Matthew 28:2-5)
c. you're both wrong , it was two men (Luke 24:4)
d. damn it, there was nobody there ! (John 20 :1-2)


15. according to inerrant Scripture , the Savior prayed alone in the garden while the three disciples who accompanied him had fallen asleep . how did the gospel writer know the words of that prayer ?

a. Jesus left them written down under a rock
b. they were recorded on a primitive taping device
c. the gospel writer was psychic
d. the three disciples were later hypnotized and asked to recall the prayer


16. according to at least one sainted church father,.. one of the pleasures of the saved will be to behold the agony of the damned . what would be the best time of day in heaven for a mother to behold the agony of her only son...

a. early in the morning before it gets too crowded
b. mid day when she can compare notes and share the celebration with other mothers
c. late at night when she can enjoy the flames in starker contrast


17. in the Judeo-Christian tradition , we always look to the Bible as a guide .. in this example , your teenage son has returned home from the prom intoxicated . The Bible's instruction is:

a. sit him down for a heart to heart talk
b. enroll him in AA
c. take away his driving privilege for one month
d. smash his head in with rocks..

18. in this example , your son-in-law, returned from his honeymoon , has just told you he suspects your daughter was not a virgin on their wedding night... wishing to abide by God' s holy rules as laid out in the Bible..., you should:

a. ask him if he was a virgin before you do anything
b. advise him to forgive her
c.talk to your daughter
d. go find those rocks !!!


19. you are eating lunch at a crowded fast food restaurant , occupied mostly by children , when suddenly a gunman bursts in , screams "..do not question or test me!," .....and sprays the room with bullets. Ten people are killed instantly, many more grievously wounded , but somehow you escape unharmed. His ammunition expended , the gunman collapses to the floor . what should you do ?

a. call the police and wait for them to arrive
b. call the police and leave
c. risk death by asking the gunman why he did it, even though he told you not to
d. fall on your knees and give thanks and praise to the gunman for sparing your life


20. why did God show his backside to Moses ,like as described in Holy Scripture, Ex.33:23?

a. he invented everything , and this was simply the first mooning
b. he was really ticked off when Moses dropped the tablets...
c. he was piqued , having just discovered his almighty powers were useless against chariots of iron (Judges 1:19)
d. Moses was too serious and needed to lighten up a little


21. Jesus was God , and God knows all things.., including all the medical knowledge that will ever be known...why did Jesus blame demons for the case of epilepsy he cured ?

a. he was suffering from a temporary case of "brain freeze"
b. the Aramaic word for "demon" is the same as the word for "cranial malfunction"
c. Neurology was not his specialty
d. in first-century Palestine , demons really did cause epilepsy . this affliction only began to be caused by anomalous electrochemical brain activity after about 1850 a.d.


22. this morning's paper carries a story about a suburban father who became so enraged with his disobedient children that he carried them both to the backyard pool where he drowned them, along with their puppy,..... their kitten,... and their hamster . how should this father be treated ?

a. he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law
b. he should be banished from the town
c. h should be lynched to save the taxpayers money
d. the townspeople should gather together to sing hymns of praise to him


23. this morning I started my day by insulting my mother in public, then punched out my father, my brother, and my sister ..then I gathered up all my clothes, sold them to a second-hand store, and with the proceeds bought a used Uzi and 50 rounds of ammunition. Next.... , I went down to the animal shelter and injected all the dogs with a drug that caused them to go insane and dive into the nearby canal where they all drowned . by this time I was hungry , so I went over to my neighbor's apple orchard and burned it down , because I wanted an orange and there weren't any. On the way home , I stopped at the local steel mill to discuss my philosophy of life with some of the guys . they laughed at me and said to stow it , so I tossed them all into the blast furnace. that night I discovered my son looking at a copy of Playboy. concerned for his future welfare , I cut off his right hand. What historical character did my activities today most resemble ?

a. Genghis Khan
b. Charles Manson
c. Adolph Hitler
d. Jesus Christ


24. down through the ages, who has been most responsible for the medical discoveries that have relieved untold amounts of suffering and pain...., and extended the length of that most sacred of creations, human life ?

a. Medical doctors
b. Research biologists
c. Chemists
d. The Catholic Church


25. a great sadness has come into your life which you feel you cannot bear.... a friend informs you of a free counseling service which has never failed to aid and comfort many others...you call the counselor , the phone rings and rings with no answer , you finally hang up ...what is the most likely explanation ?

a. the counselor is sitting by the phone but not answering in order to test your faith in him
b. the counselor always stands ready to hear your pleas for help, but sometimes the answer is "no"
c. the counselor will not answer because he wants you to profit by the spiritual strength that only comes through suffering..
d. the counselor is not home



ESSAY QUESTION

while it is true that there have been and still are many different gods and many different religions , they are really just the various names by which various cultures approach the same God . Explain how and why each of the following is the same God:

Quetzalcoatl, who wants you to skin a young virgin alive, then put on the skin and dance....
Shiva, who wants you to pray over his peniss ,
Allah , who wants you to fly airliners into buildings ,
Catholic God who speaks directly through the Pope ,..
Baptist God..who most definitely does not..
Jesus ,who wants you to castrate yourself to ensure arrival in heaven...
Jehovah , who any day now... is going to kill everyone on the earth except for his Witnesses...

SlayerofSatan:
Here's my question. Where do atheists get their morality from?

Same place that you do, your intuition guided by reason. If God said something was moral, but your intuition told you otherwise, you might grudgingly accept that, but deep down you'd still think it's not moral. Gods only rule by our assent.

Morality by its very nature is supposed to be objective, which means it exists outside of intuition which is entirely subjective. If morality was determined by each individual's moral intuition then we would have thousands of different moral standards because not everyone shares the same intuition.

So I repeat, where does the atheist get his morality from?

Near1:


Same place that you do, your intuition guided by reason. If God said something was moral, but your intuition told you otherwise, you might grudgingly accept that, but deep down you'd still think it's not moral. Gods only rule by our assent.

SlayerofSatan:
Here's my question. Where do atheists get their morality from?

First, the ops questions are silly. Christianity, for instance, teaches to help one's neighbour instead of calling on gods to help them. It is the lesson of the Good Samaritan.

Regarding your question, from knowledge and life experience.

Atheist parents teach their children the morals of please and thank you, and society will teach the benefit of loving your neighbour, just that as some Christains find it impossible to morally turn the other cheek do some atheists struggle too.

Even Gods find it hard to be moral always, so aren't always the best to emulate.

You still haven't answered my question. Morality is by its very nature objective. In other words, it exists outside of us. It didn't come into existence because we brought it into existence.

If morality is entirely subjective as you claim, then it would not be fair to sentence criminals to serve a jail term or even have them executed because they can simply say that they commit crimes because their own moral standards are different from everyone else.

So where do atheists get their morality from?

budaatum:


First, the ops questions are silly. Christianity, for instance, teaches to help one's neighbour instead of calling on gods to help them. It is the lesson of the Good Samaritan.

Regarding your question, from knowledge and life experience.

Atheist parents teach their children the morals of please and thank you, and society will teach the benefit of loving your neighbour, just that as some Christains find it impossible to morally turn the other cheek do some atheists struggle too.

Even Gods find it hard to be moral always, so aren't always the best to emulate.

SlayerofSatan:
Here's my question. Where do atheists get their morality from?

..certainly not from your fücking "god," man .

budaatum:


First, the ops questions are silly. Christianity, for instance, teaches to help one's neighbour instead of calling on gods to help them. It is the lesson of the Good Samaritan.

Actually, Christianity teaches that if you don't accept Jesus and believe he's the son of a god you're going to burn in everlasting hell.
It's a religion based on physical threats and bodily harm if you don't comply with the rules.
Basically it's extortion.

Hi, SlayerofSatan

SlayerofSatan:
Here's my question. Where do atheists get their morality from?

Answers will vary. It's like asking where non-Lagosians live. Where do non-Lagosians live? Lots of places. Just not Lagos. Where do atheists get their morality? Lots of places. Just not from theism. Also, you're in broken-record territory here. This is apologist boiler plate and it's really low-quality stuff. Rarely you'll find an atheist who hasn't thought through this, usually because they're too young or have only recently deconverted and so haven't had much opportunity to learn about the topic. Early twenties is about where its limited efficacy drops from "rarely works" to "almost never works". Most of us are pretty sick of theists implying or outright shouting that we can't be moral just because we don't share your belief in the specific religious doctrine of a god existing. We hear it a lot and experience has taught us that the people saying it do so mostly out of ignorance (believing, wrongly, that it's true) or active malice (knowing better, but slandering us anyway because theists don't have to abide by basic human decency, I guess).

If you're taking this approach out of ignorance rather than malice, Wikipedia's articles on secular morality and secular ethics are decent (if abbreviated) starting points for learning about the topic. But your question felt more rhetorical than inquisitive, so maybe you're not interested in learning the answer. This trick is most effective for preaching to other theists who don't know better, in an attempt to get them to hate their atheist neighbors and so... I dunno, not talk to us so they don't start questioning the faith? See us as a common enemy and thereby unify the ranks? Harass us in an extortionary attempt to force us to convert? Make object lessons of us and so menace those who might otherwise leave? Stochastic terrorism? Motives for using it vary, and any particular instance of saying it out of malice can include any or all of these motives. But it's only really effective when talking to theists, and specifically theists who don't know better. Trying this trick on us (or on theists who do know better) will just alienate your audience and drag your religion's reputation through yet more muck. If you want to be an effective apologist, rather than a performative one, you need to up your game far past the bar set by Ray Comfort.

@budaatum

Point of correction. Christianity PROFESSES that one should help one's neighbors rather than calling on God to help them, in theory. In practice, Christianity often teaches Christians to (instead of helping) offer thoughts, prayers, and critiques about how whatever hardship the neighbor has been going through is a sign the neighbor's not right with God and they should be miserable about that in addition to being miserable due to the hardship.

SlayerofSatan:
Morality by its very nature is supposed to be objective, which means it exists outside of intuition which is entirely subjective. If morality was determined by each individual's moral intuition then we would have thousands of different moral standards because not everyone shares the same intuition.

So I repeat, where does the atheist get his morality from?

Morality may indeed lie outside our subjectivity, but we only have access to it through our subjectivity. And we do have thousands of different moral standards.

I answered your question. You asked where my morality came from. My subjectivity is the only endpoint that I can know. As to its ultimate origin, I don't know. It could be a god, it could just be baked into the laws of the universe, it could be dependent upon our nature as a specific type of animal, or it could come from society, or a number of other options. It may not even be a real thing, as various error theories suggest.

At the end of the day, we all get our morals the same way at this point, from our subjectivity, using reason to guide our intuitions. You may believe otherwise, but that and N2,000 will get you a cup of coffee at your local coffee shop.

The fact that you were looking for me to answer in a different way is not a problem with my answer.

FemiAjani:
Hi, SlayerofSatan



Answers will vary. It's like asking where non-Lagosians live. Where do non-Lagosians live? Lots of places. Just not Lagos. Where do atheists get their morality? Lots of places. Just not from theism. Also, you're in broken-record territory here. This is apologist boiler plate and it's really low-quality stuff. Rarely you'll find an atheist who hasn't thought through this, usually because they're too young or have only recently deconverted and so haven't had much opportunity to learn about the topic. Early twenties is about where its limited efficacy drops from "rarely works" to "almost never works". Most of us are pretty sick of theists implying or outright shouting that we can't be moral just because we don't share your belief in the specific religious doctrine of a god existing. We hear it a lot and experience has taught us that the people saying it do so mostly out of ignorance (believing, wrongly, that it's true) or active malice (knowing better, but slandering us anyway because theists don't have to abide by basic human decency, I guess).

If you're taking this approach out of ignorance rather than malice, Wikipedia's articles on secular morality and secular ethics are decent (if abbreviated) starting points for learning about the topic. But your question felt more rhetorical than inquisitive, so maybe you're not interested in learning the answer. This trick is most effective for preaching to other theists who don't know better, in an attempt to get them to hate their atheist neighbors and so... I dunno, not talk to us so they don't start questioning the faith? See us as a common enemy and thereby unify the ranks? Harass us in an extortionary attempt to force us to convert? Make object lessons of us and so menace those who might otherwise leave? Stochastic terrorism? Motives for using it vary, and any particular instance of saying it out of malice can include any or all of these motives. But it's only really effective when talking to theists, and specifically theists who don't know better. Trying this trick on us (or on theists who do know better) will just alienate your audience and drag your religion's reputation through yet more muck. If you want to be an effective apologist, rather than a performative one, you need to up your game far past the bar set by Ray Comfort.

Superfluous adverb removed.

Tamaratonye5:

Superfluous adverb removed.

I take your point. I figure it's at least 90% odds that he's not interested in learning, if only based on how the average theist tends to act and how he's not yet deviated far from that mold. But how politely or rudely the links are proffered to him might (low odds, but it's possible) change whether he reads up on the subject, and even if it doesn't it's still honest to distinguish between what I suspect and what I know. So "maybe" isn't superfluous here.

chryssanthe:

Actually, Christianity teaches that if you don't accept Jesus and believe he's the son of a god you're going to burn in everlasting hell.

Sow me where Christianity teaches "that if you don't accept Jesus and believe he's the son of a god you're going to burn in everlasting hell" please. I must have missed that.

FemiAjani:
Hi, SlayerofSatan

@budaatum

Point of correction. Christianity PROFESSES that one should help one's neighbors rather than calling on God to help them, in theory. In practice, Christianity often teaches Christians to (instead of helping) offer thoughts, prayers, and critiques about how whatever hardship the neighbor has been going through is a sign the neighbor's not right with God and they should be miserable about that in addition to being miserable due to the hardship.

I guess you need to choose between "in theory" and "in practice". I personally do not think Christianity is a in theory.

SlayerofSatan:
You still haven't answered my question. Morality is by its very nature objective. In other words, it exists outside of us. It didn't come into existence because we brought it into existence.

If morality is entirely subjective as you claim, then it would not be fair to sentence criminals to serve a jail term or even have them executed because they can simply say that they commit crimes because their own moral standards are different from everyone else.

So where do atheists get their morality from?

First, I have not claimed morality is subjective. That said, morality is somewhat subjective, which is why some countries do not find homosexuality to be immoral while some do. And yes human beings did bring morality into existence, unless you want to claim the Bible was not written by humans.

Societies objectify morality by introducing laws, and that's why a criminal serves a jail sentence. We the people have subjectively decided that certain acts, like stealing your neighbours goods, is immoral and a crime, and we have objectified this fact by writing laws punishing those who commit the acts we have decided are crimes.

As for where atheists get their morals from, please read the below again slowly if you need to. The tl:dr version is, we learn it from our parents and from our experiences. It is immoral for me to stab you with a knife because I would not like being stabbed with knives.

budaatum:


First, the ops questions are silly. Christianity, for instance, teaches to help one's neighbour instead of calling on gods to help them. It is the lesson of the Good Samaritan.

Regarding your question, from knowledge and life experience.

Atheist parents teach their children the morals of please and thank you, and society will teach the benefit of loving your neighbour, just that as some Christains find it impossible to morally turn the other cheek do some atheists struggle too.

Even Gods find it hard to be moral always, so aren't always the best to emulate.

budaatum:


Sow me where Christianity teaches "that if you don't accept Jesus and believe he's the son of a god you're going to burn in everlasting hell" please. I must have missed that.

In many passages

The entire concept of "salvation" is about not winding up eternally tortured by burning sulphur. So called "salvation" is only possible by believing the Jesus doctrines. You could end global hunger and eradicate aging and make unlimited ice cream available to everyone 24/7 and still spend eternity impaled on a spit for failing to believe in Jesus.

Any actual "salvation" of humanity will only be realized by the complete eradication of religion.

budaatum:

I guess you need to choose between "in theory" and "in practice". I personally do not think Christianity is a in theory.

Neither do I. My attitude is that the religion is what the religious do, and what the book says is just words on a page unless people actually adhere to it. The practice is the religion, and everything else is just spin, trivia, or abstractions. And Christians who will refuse to help their neighbors and, for that matter, actively hate their neighbors (homophobes and transphobes, for example) because that's what the religion teaches them? They're part of the practice, and so how they practice the religion is part of the religion. Is that every last Christian? No. I'm not pretending that Christianity is consistently about abandoning and hating your neighbors. But let's also not pretend that it's consistently about helping and loving them, either.

midnight378:

..certainly not from your fücking "god," man .

If your morality is not from a SUPREME BEING do you expect your neighbour to develop his own or comply with yours?
If each person just have to develop his or her own morality how do we cohabit peacefully?

MaxInDHouse:

If your morality is not from a SUPREME BEING do you expect your neighbour to develop his own or comply with yours?
If each person just have to develop his or her own morality how do we cohabit peacefully?

Say some actual objective morality exists. Is the entirety of humanity in compliance with it? No. Is that a problem? Say that it is. Can it be fixed? Whatever remedies have been attempted thus far have been failures. All of them. We only have to look at the last 10 minutes to find 100,000,000 or so violations around the world.

The closest any human culture has been able to achieve is to establish a body of law and the means to enforce it. But it's very spotty. That we have such trouble with "morality" across our whole history of existence indicates that we don't actually know what morality even is - much less how to always be in accord with it.

People like you keep insisting religion holds the remedy, but religious "remedies" have been the most spectacularly counter-productive of any of them.

To my mind "morality" isn't the problem. The problem is competing and conflicting self interests will always hamper the cooperation that is the heart of a successful social species. As individuals, learning to cope with disappointments and find compromises, and seek fair outcomes leaves the least bloodshed.

But that assumes bloodshed is undesirable. One of the most defining aspects of human nature is its love of bloodshed. A remote observer could conclude, looking at all of human history, that absence of bloodshed constitutes the most grave violation of "morality" of all.

Instead of this lengthy write-up why not allow the OP to address the two questions if you can't?

Tamaratonye5:

Say some actual objective morality exists. Is the entirety of humanity in compliance with it? No. Is that a problem? Say that it is. Can it be fixed? Whatever remedies have been attempted thus far have been failures. All of them. We only have to look at the last 10 minutes to find 100,000,000 or so violations around the world.

The closest any human culture has been able to achieve is to establish a body of law and the means to enforce it. But it's very spotty. That we have such trouble with "morality" across our whole history of existence indicates that we don't actually know what morality even is - much less how to always be in accord with it.

People like you keep insisting religion holds the remedy, but religious "remedies" have been the most spectacularly counter-productive of any of them.

To my mind "morality" isn't the problem. The problem is competing and conflicting self interests will always hamper the cooperation that is the heart of a successful social species. As individuals, learning to cope with disappointments and find compromises, and seek fair outcomes leaves the least bloodshed.

But that assumes bloodshed is undesirable. One of the most defining aspects of human nature is its love of bloodshed. A remote observer could conclude, looking at all of human history, that absence of bloodshed constitutes the most grave violation of "morality" of all.

MaxInDHouse:
Instead of this lengthy write-up why not allow the OP to address the two questions if you can't?

LOL. Same old clueless Maximus. I'd have had more respect for you if could admit that the crux of my submission flew past your over-sized head.

Tamaratonye5:

LOL. Same old clueless Maximus. I'd have had more respect for you if could admit that the crux of my submission flew past your over-sized head.

Thanks for the compliment Sir, but perhaps you still feel like addressing the questions here they are once again!

MaxInDHouse:

[1]If your morality is not from a SUPREME BEING do you expect your neighbour to develop his own or comply with yours?


[2]If each person just have to develop his or her own morality how do we cohabit peacefully?

Thanks!

MaxInDHouse:

If your morality is not from a SUPREME BEING do you expect your neighbour to develop his own or comply with yours?
If each person just have to develop his or her own morality how do we cohabit peacefully?

We could ask the same about theism-based morality. If you base your morality on the Christian Bible and your two neighbors base theirs on the Muslim Koran and the 10 precepts of Buddhism, respectively, then how do you live side by side peacefully? If you base your morality on (let's say) a Catholic take on Christian morality, and your two neighbors base theirs on Orthodox and Protestant Christianity, then how do you get along peacefully? If objectivity is defined as something that different, disparate people can look at and generally agree on what they see (literally or figuratively), then no morality rooted in theism can be objective, because the theistic dogmas underlying theistic morality are not generally agreed upon. The Hindu will not agree that Moses came down the mountain bearing God's commandments to humanity, any more than the Christian will agree that the Vishnu is watching over us.

What we CAN agree on is secular morality. Not necessarily morality by only secular people, or morality that hinges on disbelieving in the existence of a god, but morality that doesn't NEED a god for us to agree with it. We start by asking basic questions -- what kind of world do we want to live in? What kind of people do we want to surround ourselves with? -- and when we do that, we arrive at some pretty similar answers with most of the people around us. We want to live in a world where we feel safe and secure, which means a world where people don't beat and rape and murder each other willy-nilly. So we work to discourage and prevent that in various ways. We won't agree that the 10 commandments are divinely-written, but we will agree that murder isn't something we want in our communities. We want to live in a world where, if something bad were to happen to us, people will support us, and so we build up social norms in which people are expected to help others in trouble. We might not agree that Confucius had any particular authority when he commanded "Do not impose on others what you do not wish for yourself," but we can evaluate it as a sensible rule for living in a peaceful world rather than a violent one and adopt it as good advice, rather than a religious commandment. All of these preferences are common, and all of these rules are sensible and obvious steps towards those preferences, and so societies as a whole (with some individual holdouts) tend to adopt them. Regardless of whether that's objective or subjective, it happens, and it does so even if some parts of society think the morality in question comes from the dictates of the Christian God, and others think it comes from the necessities of transcending the Dharmic cycle to achieve Nirvana, and others just value human happiness and agency and think it's a good way to advance those causes. At the end of the day, secular morality works, regardless of whether we agree on the existence of a god. Not perfectly and not without friction, but it works. (And it works a far sight better than religion-based morality does, if the long trail of religious conflict stretching back into human prehistory is any indicator.) You might ask how it could work and imply that it couldn't, but the bottom line is that it does. Whether or not we explain to your satisfaction HOW it works won't change that fact.

FemiAjani:

We could ask the same about theism-based morality. If you base your morality on the Christian Bible and your two neighbors base theirs on the Muslim Koran and the 10 precepts of Buddhism, respectively, then how do you live side by side peacefully? If you base your morality on (let's say) a Catholic take on Christian morality, and your two neighbors base theirs on Orthodox and Protestant Christianity, then how do you get along peacefully? If objectivity is defined as something that different, disparate people can look at and generally agree on what they see (literally or figuratively), then no morality rooted in theism can be objective, because the theistic dogmas underlying theistic morality are not generally agreed upon. The Hindu will not agree that Moses came down the mountain bearing God's commandments to humanity, any more than the Christian will agree that the Vishnu is watching over us.

What we CAN agree on is secular morality. Not necessarily morality by only secular people, or morality that hinges on disbelieving in the existence of a god, but morality that doesn't NEED a god for us to agree with it. We start by asking basic questions -- what kind of world do we want to live in? What kind of people do we want to surround ourselves with? -- and when we do that, we arrive at some pretty similar answers with most of the people around us. We want to live in a world where we feel safe and secure, which means a world where people don't beat and rape and murder each other willy-nilly. So we work to discourage and prevent that in various ways. We won't agree that the 10 commandments are divinely-written, but we will agree that murder isn't something we want in our communities. We want to live in a world where, if something bad were to happen to us, people will support us, and so we build up social norms in which people are expected to help others in trouble. We might not agree that Confucius had any particular authority when he commanded "Do not impose on others what you do not wish for yourself," but we can evaluate it as a sensible rule for living in a peaceful world rather than a violent one and adopt it as good advice, rather than a religious commandment. All of these preferences are common, and all of these rules are sensible and obvious steps towards those preferences, and so societies as a whole (with some individual holdouts) tend to adopt them. Regardless of whether that's objective or subjective, it happens, and it does so even if some parts of society think the morality in question comes from the dictates of the Christian God, and others think it comes from the necessities of transcending the Dharmic cycle to achieve Nirvana, and others just value human happiness and agency and think it's a good way to advance those causes. At the end of the day, secular morality works, regardless of whether we agree on the existence of a god. Not perfectly and not without friction, but it works. (And it works a far sight better than religion-based morality does, if the long trail of religious conflict stretching back into human prehistory is any indicator.) You might ask how it could work and imply that it couldn't, but the bottom line is that it does. Whether or not we explain to your satisfaction HOW it works won't change that fact.

Why you do atheists often confuse yourselves?

If you don't have the answer just say so instead of giving a lengthy epistle without the answers!

Once again the two questions!

Note that this questions is for both atheists, agnostics and religionists so do not think such important questions are posed to demean atheism.
It's just a means of knowing how intelligent we are!

MaxInDHouse:

[1]If your morality is not from a SUPREME BEING do you expect your neighbour to develop his own or comply with yours?


[2]If each person just have to develop his or her own morality how do we cohabit peacefully?

Thanks!

MaxInDHouse:

Why you do atheists often confuse yourselves?...

Unfortunately, it's not a matter of confusion, Maximus. It's your reading and comprehension skills that seems to have you stuck and befuddled. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

This isn't Kingdom Hall. You're out of your depth here.

Tamaratonye5:

Unfortunately, it's not a matter of confusion, Maximus. It's your reading and comprehension skills that seems to have you stuck and befuddled. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

The questions are for both atheists, agnostics and religionists so if you don't have the answer please let intelligent people speak!

MaxInDHouse:


Why you do atheists often confuse yourselves?

If you don't have the answer just say so instead of giving a lengthy epistle without the answers!

He gave you a very comprehensive reply.. but you decided to ignore everything and come here and type this. Alright. Let me have a go at this.

MaxInDHouse:

If your morality is not from a SUPREME BEING do you expect your neighbour to develop his own or comply with yours?
If each person just have to develop his or her own morality how do we cohabit peacefully?

A lot of problems with your statements here

1. The existence of said supreme being, hasn't been made clearly evident to us.
2. Even if this supreme being existed, the proposed morality, has also, not in any way, been made evident to us.

The title of supreme being is one being claimed by a number of different gods. None of which have done anything to prove their claim. But I don't want to make this about whether or not a god exists. This is about morality

We do not need to get our morality from a higher power in order to coexist peacefully with each other. Your statement implies that a higher power, or supreme being, if it existed, would necessarily want us to coexist peacefully. You've yet to prove the existence of said being, talk less of whether or not that being has our best interest at heart.

Moving on, if we want to make peaceful coexistence our goal, then our morality has to be "human-centered" and not "God-centered". It has to be based on principles that take well into account, the human condition, and human nature, rather than simply what a god wants.

I'd like to add that the question of morality has never been an easy one to address. Hinging morality on a God still doesn't solve the problem. It only further extends it.

If a God asked you to do something terrible, like kill your child, or set people on fire for being blonde, would you do it? Does that make it okay?

If you have problems with doing these things even if a God told you to do so, then your morality is definitely not hinged on a God, no matter how well you try to play it.

Moral questions can be difficult to answer. But shifting the burden on to a God doesn't make it easier. If anything, it complicates it even further.

Wilgrea7:

Morality doesn't solve the problem. It only further extends it.

What PROBLEM is MORALITY expected to solve?

I believe it's until we know the PROBLEM that we can work out a SOLUTION!