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Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Tamaratonye1(f): 1:59pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
TenQ:Since I haven't claimed it's possible, I'm not going to attempt to prove that it's possible. As a Christian, you do claim that a necessary being is possible. Can you prove it? And no, you've misunderstood the science of the big bang. It does not say anything about how or when the universe originated. That is simply unknown. 1 Like |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 2:15pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
midnight378:Cool down and learn! Logic is a step above experience and experiments. Logic is very simple If A>B (Postulate 1) and If B>C (Postulate 2) THEN A>C (Conclusion) The conclusion can only be wrong if either of the two postulates are wrong. From the knowledge, we have are the postulates surrounding infinite regress false? Until they are PROVEN FALSE, the CONCLUSION is TRUE You can't beat logic: only if the postulates are wrong can the conclusion be invalidated Show logically or scientifically that infinite regress of cause and effect is possible? Time, Space, Matter and all the laws of Physics occured simultaneously at/after big bang. You know the implication!? It means that however we try Scientifically, we cannot probe beyond (before) the big bang. The Uncaused First cause must of course be beyond (before/ the big bang) meaning that He cannot be subject either to the laws of physics nor be of material/matter origin. The Uncaused First cause is an ENIGMA! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 2:15pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
1000WaysToLive:What a warped mind! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Tamaratonye1(f): 2:21pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
TenQ:He has not asserted any such thing! For crying out loud, are you simply incapable of reading for comprehension? Is English not your first language? Or is there some other handicap that explains your constant misreading? 3 Likes |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 2:27pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
chryssanthe:At least you acknowledge that all the laws of physics, matter, space, energy and time break down at the origin of OUR time, OUR space, OUR energy and OUR matter. The implication is simple:;there is Something that is beyond TIME, SPACE and MATTER that set the Universe rolling that the Laws of Physics and Chemistry cannot unravel. This is the Primary Mover of EVERY thing we know. This can be a Person or a Force (an argument for another day). As Christians we know Him to be a Person. Science cannot even measure or detect Him. Atheists deny what they cannot even comprehend! Does an UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE of EVERYTHING exist (either as a Force or a Personality)? |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 2:30pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
1000WaysToLive:Morality can be God subjective code but it makes it Man's OBJECTIVE code. The Legal age is subjective to the Government (it could have been any age whatsoever). However, whatever age they choose is Objective to the citizens. The frame of reference of definition is important my dear! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 2:36pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
1000WaysToLive:Does it matter if a law is Legal rather than moral? Infraction of God's legal laws is called SIN of which immorality is a subset. Example is legal age in most western cultures set at 18 years old. Even if it changes to 17 years old, it is still an objective standard for citizens. A man who had sex with a 17 years 9 months old girl would be attested for rape. In a community where there is no form of government, do you think Murder, Rape and Cannibalism are okay? |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by chryssanthe(f): 2:37pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
TenQ: "Until they are PROVEN FALSE, the CONCLUSION is TRUE" What world do you come from? A statement has to be proven to be true to have any validity! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 2:47pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
chryssanthe:What I know for certain is that the Universe came into being 13.8billion years ago. Before that time ALL paws of Physics and Chemistry including Times, Space and Matter did NOT exist. If the gravitational singularity was eternal, it would have been a CONSTANT. If it was a constant, it would still remain a constant till today EXCEPT it is perturbed by an external force (that is strange to the present forces in physics and chemistry). Whatever moved the gravitational singularity to inflate is EXTERNAL to it and not the kind of force we know in Physics and Chemistry. You as an Atheist deny this all together, me as a Christian call the primary mover my God. What then is your problem about that |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by 1000WaysToLive(m): 2:51pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
YOU SAID: "Morality can be God subjective code but it makes it man's OBJECTIVE code." Still not how that works, not even in all caps. YOU SAID: "The legal age is subjective to the Government (it could have been any age whatsoever). However, whatever age they choose is Objective to the citizens." If the legal age were subjective, they'd ask you how old you thought she looked, or how old she seemed. Bad at words. There is no immorality, according to you..sin or otherwise. You already explained that if morality was subjective nothing is really good or bad, and insist again here that gods moral code is subjective. TenQ: |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by 1000WaysToLive(m): 2:55pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
Complexity is not the hallmark of design, simplicity is. We also do not recognize design by assessing complexity, but by contrasting it to nature. Are you going to trot out all the other well known, vapid, stupid and fallacious arguments of most uninformed christians as well? A 5second google search would disabuse you of all of this ignorant BS. Are you able to google? Bros are you ok? TenQ: |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by midnight378: 3:04pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
Tamaratonye1: his argument from personal incredulity is a well known fallacy he doesn't know what is a scientific impossibility . there are many theories in abiogenesis (by Nobel winners) of how life began. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis he can provide no scientific reference for his false (ignorant) claim. there is nowhere science says that, AND yes it is a possibility. Chaos Theory ... he should check it out. Order arises in this universe spontaneously. (Has he told us yet which of the many gods created everything ?) (Of course it's his personal god. It always is.) |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by midnight378: 3:09pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
1. "Thou shalt not kill." 2. "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." there is no objective moral system in religion. in the Bible , it totally depends on the circumstances, which is the definition of "subjective". |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by chryssanthe(f): 3:13pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
TenQ: Yet your god impregnates 13 or 14 year old little Mary without her fathers consent! The age of consent in Hebrew culture 2000 years ago was 12 or sometime after her first period! She was subject to the rule and legal control of her father which was based on the laws of the Talmud which was based on the laws handed down by their god, the same god you believe in. According to Christian myth Jesus is the result of impregnating a child which today would be consider statitory rape! As a secular society we've decided that a 12 year old girl is still a child yet in objective religious standards set up by your god it's perfectly fine to deposit magical sperm in a child. Tell me again about these objective moral standards! Morality developes and changes through time and experience. We don't stone children today as is condoned in the bible. Anyone stoning a child today would be in prison! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 3:13pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
1000WaysToLive:A System is the hallmark of intelligent design. No wonder you couldn't answer a single question I post. Google: Everything can be found on Google including falsehood and misinformation. Will you answer my questions!? |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 3:17pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
1000WaysToLive:Shame on you: I said there is no morality!? And I am a Christian!? Everyone irrespective of government or no government laws know that Murder, Rape is wrong because we have been programmed to know that these are wrong. I just punchured you argument that morality is subjective to God therefore also subjective to man. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by midnight378: 3:19pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
chryssanthe: the holy child predator owed marys dad a lump sum, and poor little mary a support payment...biblically speaking. they let you do it when you're a god though. Do anything . Grab em by the uterus. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 3:19pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
chryssanthe:How many planets do we have in our solar system? It used to be NINE before Pluto was downgraded |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 3:21pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
Tamaratonye1:Speak to my response if you can, and if you can't, it's not compulsory as you don't understand what is written |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 3:22pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
Tamaratonye1:Then you have no business with my claim! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 3:24pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
Tamaratonye1:How: Big Bang or Inflation of gravitational singularity When: 13.8billion years ago You're wrong |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 3:26pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
chryssanthe:Murder=Killing!? Always amusing! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by 1000WaysToLive(m): 3:26pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
That's true. You can find true or false information on the internet because facts are objective, unlike your gods morality, according to you TenQ: |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 3:29pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
1000WaysToLive:So you know that and you refer me to the almighty Google!? Like you just started using the internet! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 3:34pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
chryssanthe:See how when their defences are the disarray they start finding just anything to grapple on like a drowning man. Mary was so young and she has a Fiancé!? See how reprobate your heart is:!? At least it's commendable that you recognize it as a myth! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by 1000WaysToLive(m): 3:35pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
People like you scare the crap out of me sometimes. I'm never sure when people like you are just deliberately stupid for some religious belief or naturally dumb as bricks. Most modern law is based on human-oriented ethics, which are entirely different from religion. And religious morality is mostly based on pre-religious human experience learning to live together. Most of the rational stuff in religious texts comes from pre-existing common sense. Don't covet your neighbor's goods is kind of obvious. Same with wife back when women were considered property. Respect your elders is a good idea too. They knew stuff. The rest of the stuff in religious texts is a bunch of crap. Why Sunday? Why not any other day? Thorsday seems as rational. "In a community where there is no form of government, do you think Murder, Rape and Cannibalism are okay?" Of course not. I can only laugh at people who think atheists have no ethics just because they don't fear a deity. Atheists are about 15% of the general population, but about 1% of the prison population. I have never found a morew ethical and law-abiding group than atheists. We just don't do that stuff because we understand that, from an ethical human POV, it is wrong. That is a big difference. Atheist don't normally do bad things because they understand they are wrong to other humans. Theists are ordered by god not to do those things bad things because they might be punished. Think about that. TenQ: 1 Like |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by 1000WaysToLive(m): 3:40pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
You said exactly that. That there is no morality. Did you want to talk about it? I guess some of us only think things are wrong because they've been programmed to..and not because there is anything really wrong with those things. That would certainly be the case if morality were subjective, as you believe, or if morality were relative, as many atheists believe. I'm a moral realist. I don't think and don't argue that morality is subjective -at all-. You, on the other hand, have insisted in this thread that if morality were subjective, then there wouldn't be anything really wrong with things like rape, murder, incest, necromancy....(still lol-ing). In this same thread...you have insisted that gods moral code is subjective. Did you want to talk about that? TenQ: |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by midnight378: 3:42pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
TenQ: nope. She is not wrong . YOU are wrong. you're taken the typical hijacking of the theory by Christian apologists as true. It is not. the Big Bang Theory says that something(s) which ALREADY EXISTED, which was at high temperature and density, (no one knows what that was .... but it ALREADY EXISTED, ie it was NOT a "creation event" ) and it expanded ... the Big Bang was the EXPANSIOARY phase, not a beginning of anything. "Nothing" is not at high temperature and density. SOMETHING was (already) at high temperature and pressure. The Big Bang Theory says NOTHING about the creation or "beginning" of anything. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by midnight378: 3:45pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
TenQ: governments put people to death all the time , many times in error. many people think capital punishment is wrong , many do not. many people say abortion is murder, many do not. it used to be legal for husbands to rape their wives. you punctured nothing. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 3:46pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
1000WaysToLive:It's good I scare you bad! May all your demons ever be scared of my mention! No wonder, response to simple questions throw you off the bridge. I'm sure you've never heard of the word conscience: let me explain. It's the little sentinel program God wrote into you to be your first tutor to doing good. It doesn't matter if you are Buddhist, Hindi, Hare Krishna, Muslim or Christian, you have a conscience (an instinct) that rewards you with peace and joy when you do good and withdraws peace and joy from your heart when you do evil. Even when you finally decided for Atheism, you remember how EMPTY you felt!? Even in your Atheism, if you've not completely overwritten your programming, you still have a conscience. Don't you!? |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by TenQ: 3:51pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
midnight378:Governments can be wrong. In fact government can make laws against morals. Whatever their subjective opinion of laws are become binding and objective to the citizen. As a member of the communist party in China, tell them you are a Christian or Muslim and see what will happen to you. The Chinese or North Korean Communist Party is exclusively ATHEISTIC! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by midnight378: 3:52pm On Sep 19, 2022 |
TenQ: you can post no example of intelligent design which does not have at least a purported explanation, or which cannot be shown to be piss-poor design. Wow. Is this garbage all you have ? Intelligent Design is actually an argument AGAINST the gods. A real god could make things work the way she wants it to work, no matter what the design was. 3 Likes |
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