TenQ:

Am I correct to assume that your position for the two questions posed was LITERAL!?

Literal People from the tribes of Israel Literal number 12,000 per tribe!
Am I correct?

I should add at this point, that the idea that only the 144,000 will be in Heaven is a lie. Instead, the 144,000 Israelites are the elects who were sealed most likely at the time of Jesus Christ as God's special people and are expected to reign with Jesus Christ over the 12 tribes of Israel, this before the judgment day, and the second resurrection which is of those who are of the Kingdom of God.

So, the description of them is in regards to Israel and the first resurrection, and not the Kingdom of God and the second resurrection which comes right before Judgment day for those of the Kingdom of God.

Lukuluku69:
Don't even bother to understand this, they are a confused lot. Watch as they come up with different theories and exegesis on the fabled 144,000.
The answer to this confusion is in the Gospel of Barnabas.

Here is what is stated in the Gospel of Barnabas of the 144,000,

Philip answered: 'Master, what sayest thou? It is surely written in Isaiah that God is our father; how, then, hath he no sons?'

Jesus answered: 'There are written in the prophets many parables, wherefore thou oughtest not to attend to the letter, but to the sense.

For all the prophets, that are one hundred and forty-four thousand, whom God hath sent into the world, have spoken darkly. But after me shall come the Splendour of all the prophets and holy ones, and shall shed light upon the darkness of all that the prophets have said, because he is the messenger of God.' And having said this, Jesus sighed and said: 'Have mercy on Israel, O Lord God and look with pity upon Abraham and upon his seed, in order that they may serve thee with truth of heart. His disciples answered: 'So be it, O Lord our God!'

There are several issues with the claims attributed to Jesus Christ in the above.

1. He didn't answer the question asked by Philips, and this seems to be a common occurrence throughout this Gospel of Barnabas.

2. The claim that all the prophets that God had sent into the world up until Jesus Christ had all spoken darkly are from a point of ignorance since almost all of the messages - the judgments against Israel included - proclaimed by the Prophets can be traced back to God's Old Covenant Law which He gave to Israel. So, a person not aware of this is likely to assume that judgments come from just the current situation in the land at the time of the pronunciation.

3. The claim that another will come after Jesus Christ makes no sense considering God never promised another agreement apart from the one He would deliver Himself to Israel.

4. Now to the claim that all the prophets that God sent only a total of 144,000 prophets to the world, well it is ludicrous, and silly at best, considering this same book claimed that Jezebel murdered over 10,000 prophets in just her short time in office.

Kobojunkie:
I should add at this point, that the idea that only the 144,000 will be in Heaven is a lie. Instead, the 144,000 Israelites are the elects who were sealed most likely at the time of Jesus Christ as God's special people and are expected to reign with Jesus Christ over the 12 tribes of Israel, this before the judgment day, and the second resurrection which is of those who are of the Kingdom of God.

So, the description of them is in regards to Israel and the first resurrection, and not the Kingdom of God and the second resurrection which comes right before Judgment day for those of the Kingdom of God.

For the first time I must confess that we are mostly in agreement!

1. The 12,000 males per tribe of Israel is literal
Rev 7:4:
"And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

2. These are specially chosen by Christ Himself.
They sing a new song BEFORE the throne of Christ
Rev 14:3:
"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

3. They are Righteous human males (Redeemed amongst men) also called Servants of God from the 12 tribes of Israel
Rev 14:4:
"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits to God and to the Lamb."

Rev 7:3-4:
"Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

4. Apart from these special 144,000 Children of Israel are multitudes of people from all Nations, Tribes and Languages ALSO before the THRONE of God
Rev 7:9-11:
"After this I beheld, and, see, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sits on the throne, and to the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,"


Where the JW and Maximus came to the idea that only 144,000 would be in heaven is a mystery.

The question is:
Where is the Tabernacle and Throne of God situated?
I will say in both heaven and on earth
On earth:
Rev 21:3:
"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

Rev 22:3-4:
"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads."


In Heaven:
Rev 4:1-2:
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up here, and I will show you things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne."


Rev 5:9-10:
"And they sung a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for you were slain, and have redeemed us to God by your blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And have made us to our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

The phrase "we shall reign on earth" means that they are still in heaven at this particular instance

Cc: MaxInDHouse

The above contradicts what the JW organisation has taught Maximus hence his inability to say if the number is literal and the people are literal.

MaxInDHouse:

Jesus never went arguing with Pharisees rather it's Pharisees that's stalking Jesus just as you're doing now.
The other guy asked me a question and i answered but since you're not teachable i will direct you to go and meet your pastors!

It is good you know that I am not teachable by false prophets!
I. Above your brainwashing and demonic controls! Praise be to Christ!


What am I doing?

Exposing the darkness masquerading as light.
Eph 5:11,13:
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. … But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatever does make manifest is light."


Acts 19:8-9:
"And he went into the synagogue, and spoke boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spoke evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus."

TenQ:
1. The 12,000 males per tribe of Israel is literal

2. These are specially chosen by Christ Himself. They sing a new song BEFORE the throne of Christ

3. They are Righteous human males (Redeemed amongst men) also called Servants of God from the 12 tribes of Israel

4. Apart from these special 144,000 Children of Israel are multitudes of people from all Nations, Tribes and Languages ALSO before the THRONE of God

The question is:
Where is the Tabernacle and Throne of God situated?
I will say in both heaven and on earth
The phrase "we shall reign on earth" means that they are still in heaven at this particular instance

1. I don't believe gender was a factor in the sealing, so, to suggest them all males is not in accordance with any of what God Himself said of His special people.

2. Not necessarily, since Jesus Christ in His Gospel made it known that only those selected by the Father can be His. So, they weren't chosen per se by Jesus Christ, but by the Father.

3. What was said about them not being defiled by women does not necessarily indicate they are all males. And certainly does not mean none of them were ever married nor does it necessarily mean they were literal virgins at the time of their conversion. Remember that at the time that Jesus Christ chose His disciples, they were all of them sinners, and a few of the disciples were married - at least Peter was, and he was among the first of those chosen to rule over Israel with Jesus Christ when He returns.

4. All those people were listed as being here on earth during the millennial reign whereas the Throne of God is listed as being in Heaven though.

5. Throne of God is in Heaven while His tabernacle/Temple is situated here on earth during the Millenial reign in Jerusalem, God's Holy City, this is according to the records of the prophets - Isaiah and Jeremiah for one.

And those who will reign on earth, during the millennial reign, are those who are of Israel, God's Nation of priests... they are the kings to reign over the kingdoms of the earth.

You're just blabbing so i don't have your time when you're ready say what you were taught instead of asking me, i have spoken in volume what that Bible book means it's your turn to say yours!

TenQ:

For the first time I must confess that we are mostly in agreement!
1. The 12,000 males per tribe of Israel is literal
Rev 7:4:
"And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."
2. These are specially chosen by Christ Himself.
They sing a new song BEFORE the throne of Christ
Rev 14:3:
"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

3. They are Righteous human males (Redeemed amongst men) also called Servants of God from the 12 tribes of Israel
Rev 14:4:
"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits to God and to the Lamb."
Rev 7:3-4:
"Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."
4. Apart from these special 144,000 Children of Israel are multitudes of people from all Nations, Tribes and Languages ALSO before the THRONE of God
Rev 7:9-11:
"After this I beheld, and, see, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sits on the throne, and to the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,"

Where the JW and Maximus came to the idea that only 144,000 would be in heaven is a mystery.
The question is:
Where is the Tabernacle and Throne of God situated?
I will say in both heaven and on earth
On earth:
Rev 21:3:
"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."
Rev 22:3-4:
"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads."

In Heaven:
Rev 4:1-2:
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up here, and I will show you things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne."

Rev 5:9-10:
"And they sung a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for you were slain, and have redeemed us to God by your blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And have made us to our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."
The phrase "we shall reign on earth" means that they are still in heaven at this particular instance
Cc: MaxInDHouse
The above contradicts what the JW organisation has taught Maximus hence his inability to say if the number is literal and the people are literal.

Kobojunkie:
1. I don't believe gender was a factor in the sealing, so, to suggest them all males is not in accordance with any of what God Himself said of His special people.

2. Not necessarily, since Jesus Christ in His Gospel made it known that only those selected by the Father can be His. So, they weren't chosen per se by Jesus Christ, but by the Father.

3. What was said about them not being defiled by women does not necessarily indicate they are all males. And certainly does not mean none of them were ever married nor does it necessarily mean they were literal virgins at the time of their conversion. Remember that at the time that Jesus Christ chose His disciples, they were all of them sinners, and a few of the disciples were married - at least Peter was, and he was among the first of those chosen to rule over Israel with Jesus Christ when He returns.

4. All those people's were listed as being here on earth whereas the Throne of God is listed as being in Heaven though.

5. Throne of God is in Heaven while His tabernacle/Temple is situated here on earth during the Millenial reign in Jerusalem, God's Holy City, this is according to the records of the prophets - Isaiah and Jeremiah for one.

And those who will reign on earth are those who are of Israel, God's Nation of priests... they are the kings to reign over the kingdoms of the earth.

I will speak only about 1.

1. I can only state what the bible plainly teaches with no interpolation or extrapolations.

Rev 14:4-5:
"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

I. They were not defiled by women. Meaning that they could be married, but if they are married, they can't be virgins. Therefore, it refers to non-married male virgins!
If the bible had said they were not sexually defiled, both genders would have been involved
2. They were not only sexually pure, they were morally pure
3. Even though, they were called first fruit, It seemed they were chosen during the period of tribulation. Therefore, the apostles names could not be present. BTW, All Christians are referred to as FIRSTFRUIT and Jesus Christ is also called the FIRSTFRUIT . The word firstfruit could be used in a special sense here.

Secondly, with the 144,000 were multitudes FROM the great tribulation!
Rev 7:9:
"After this I beheld, and, see, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
Rev 7:14:
"And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

TenQ:
I will speak only about 1.
1. I can only state what the bible plainly teaches with no interpolation or extrapolations.

Rev 14:4-5:
"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits to God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

I. They were not defiled by women. Meaning that they could be married, but if they are married, they can't be virgins. Therefore, it refers to non-married male virgins!
If the bible had said they were not sexually defiled, both genders would have been involved
2. They were not only sexually pure, they were morally pure
3. Even though, they were called first fruit, It seemed they were chosen during the period of tribulation. Therefore, the apostles names could not be present. BTW, All Christians are referred to as FIRSTFRUIT and Jesus Christ is also called the FIRSTFRUIT . The word firstfruit could be used in a special sense here.

Secondly, with the 144,000 were multitudes FROM the great tribulation!
Rev 7:9:
"After this I beheld, and, see, a great multitude,[/h
ighlight] which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
Rev 7:14:
"And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, [highlight]These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

1. Again, the claims made by your person. though you seem to draw solely from that written in the dream/visions of John, are not corroborated by the Prophets and by Jesus Christ who we know had even prostitutes and married men among the ranks of His followers before His death.

Also, the claim that all Christians are among the first fruits of Jesus Christ - I don't know where you get that from.

2. As for the 144,000, they are not the multitude referred to in Revelations 7 at all. Instead, the multitude refers to the returned sons and daughters of Israel gathered from all corners of the earth. The 144,000 are the special people God sent out to gather them back to Jerusalem.

Kobojunkie:
1. Again, the claims made by your person. though you seem to draw solely from that written in the dream/visions of John, are not corroborated by the Prophets and by Jesus Christ who we know had even prostitutes and married men among the ranks of His followers before His death.

Also, the claim that all Christians are among the first fruits of Jesus Christ - I don't know where you get that from.

2. As for the 144,000, they are not the multitude referred to in Revelations 7 at all. Instead, the multitude refers to the returned sons and daughters of Israel gathered from all corners of the earth. The 144,000 are the special people God sent out to gather them back to Jerusalem.

There is no need for arguments and I never that the 144,000 are the multitudes. The bible is clear
1. The 144,000 are of the children of Israel
2. With them are multitudes from every tongue, tribe and nation

MaxInDHouse:
You're just blabbing so i don't have your time when you're ready say what you were taught instead of asking me, i have spoken in volume what that Bible book means it's your turn to say yours!

Only the spiritually blind will not see!

TenQ:

Only the spiritually blind will not see!

I wonder why you can't present the group that can see what you're seeing at least to prove that you have many who can see spiritually like you! Matthew 12:46-50

Pls. listen to this video by clicking the topic below [url=https://www.nairaland.com/7332273/helped-convert-over-1000-pastors]

TenQ:

There is no need for arguments and I never that the 144,000 are the multitudes. The bible is clear
1. The 144,000 are of the children of Israel
2. With them are multitudes from every tongue, tribe and nation

Just being clear that they are two different groups of people addressed there is all.

MaxInDHouse:

I wonder why you can't present the group that can see what you're seeing at least to prove that you have many who can see spiritually like you! Matthew 12:46-50

That's why only the spiritually blind would not see because your comment came just AFTER I put my position down AND copied you.

But I'm not surprised that as a spiritually blind person, seeing, you see not even with your two eyes.

TenQ:

That's why only the spiritually blind would not see because your comment came just AFTER I put my position down AND copied you.
But I'm not surprised that as a spiritually blind person, seeing, you see not even with your two eyes.

OK your position is in that comment shey?
Then you shouldn't have copied me because i'm not interested in what you typed i don't read your comments, i know it's gibberish.
So keep it for people like you!

MaxInDHouse:

OK your position is in that comment shey?
Then you shouldn't have copied me because i'm not interested in what you typed i don't read your comments, i know it's gibberish.
So keep it for people like you!

What you've just done is a manifestation of chronic hypocrisy.

MaxInDHouse:
You're just blabbing so i don't have your time when you're ready say what you were taught instead of asking me, i have spoken in volume what that Bible book means it's your turn to say yours!

Unfortunately, you CHOSE NOT to even read what "I've been taught" as you claim.

You are a big HYPOCRITE sir!
Repent in humility and find the truth.

Simple questions again;
1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?

TenQ:

What you've just done is a manifestation of chronic hypocrisy.
Unfortunately, you CHOSE NOT to even read what "I've been taught" as you claim.
You are a big HYPOCRITE sir!

I don't have any business with you so speak to your kind!

TenQ:

Repent in humility and find the truth.

I have already repented from arguing aimlessly with your type so stick to what you think you know.

TenQ:

Simple questions again;
1. About the 144,000 persons: are they literal people or figurative?
2. About the 144,000 persons: is the figure (144,000) literal or figurative?

So far you believe in your response it should be enough for you there's no need asking for what my own teachers taught me!

MaxInDHouse:

I don't have any business with you so speak to your kind!

I have already repented from arguing aimlessly with your type so stick to what you think you know.

So far you believe in your response it should be enough for you there's no need asking for what my own teachers taught me!

Above says the person who wanted to know what my position is!

Hypocrite!

TenQ:

Above says the person who wanted to know what my position is!
Hypocrite!

Can you quote where i asked for the gibberish you're carrying in your head?
Ọmọ i said tell others what you know about the topic of discussion and quit stalking me i'm not on the same page with you!

MaxInDHouse:


Can you quote where i asked for the gibberish you're carrying in your head?
Ọmọ i said tell others what you know about the topic of discussion and quit stalking me i'm not on the same page with you!

Hypocrite!

TenQ:

Hypocrite!

Stalker!

Kobojunkie:
Here is what is stated in the Gospel of Barnabas of the 144,000,

There are several issues with the claims attributed to Jesus Christ in the above.

1. He didn't answer the question asked by Philips, and this seems to be a common occurrence throughout this Gospel of Barnabas.

2. The claim that all the prophets that God had sent into the world up until Jesus Christ had all spoken darkly are from a point of ignorance since almost all of the messages - the judgments against Israel included - proclaimed by the Prophets can be traced back to God's Old Covenant Law which He gave to Israel. So, a person not aware of this is likely to assume that judgments come from just the current situation in the land at the time of the pronunciation.

3. The claim that another will come after Jesus Christ makes no sense considering God never promised another agreement apart from the one He would deliver Himself to Israel.

4. Now to the claim that all the prophets that God sent only a total of 144,000 prophets to the world, well it is ludicrous, and silly at best, considering this same book claimed that Jezebel murdered over 10,000 prophets in just her short time in office.

Perhaps you need to go buy and read that Gospel of Barnabas again. There is no poser or question from the disciples or anyone that Jesus left unanswered. None

Jesus says "another" will come. Guess you have not read the Gospel of John then? The other three did not write about no Comforter but John heard Jesus asaying he will pray the father to send another abi you missed that part ni?

The Total of 144,000 is ludicrous to you but not Ludicrous when it says that number will be filled with Jews from their twelve tribes? Abi?

Kobojunkie:
1. I don't do interpretations. Instead for me, context is King and the I process what is written as is written.

2. Regardless of whether they are waiting or not, God has already sent another Law giver who also happens to be an embodiment of the Law/agreement promised as well. And He came over 2000 years ago.

3. If you are referring to Deuteronomy 32 vs 21, what God said is that He would use a worthless people who are not even a nation to make Israel jealous and a worthless nation to make Israel angry, not that He would abandon Israel and choose another nation instead.

Surely, you understand very well how a father rarely abandons or disowns his children for being stiffnecked. How much more God who foreknew the sniff-neckedness of the Israelites long before He chose them to be His. For God to abandon/disown Israel amounts to God changing His mind and that is against who God is.

Instead, God promised to curse the children of Israel - Deuteronomy 28 - and scatter them to all the ends of the earth, leaving behind only a remnant each time, if they refused to obey Him and that is exactly what God did to them instead.

4. This isn't about men at all but about God who said that His Word is eternal and unchanging. So, if God's Word falls victim to the schemes of men, it is a dent in God's image and who He claims to be.

5. From among the 12 tribes of Israel.

You said you don't do interpretations? Really really? Then you must have a short memory. Have you forgotten what you said about " Rams of Kedar" about Nabiaoth? About Tema? Do you recollect all the fancy stuff you came up with?

If context is key for you, then what is the context being king for you when Jesus told the Jews that the Kingdom of God shall be taken from them and given to another Nation bringing the right fruits?

I can show you dozens of references where your Yahweh said he will abandon them if they backslides, the question is would you abandon your needle eye view on Israel and dozens of years spent on this indoctrination? Would you?

It is no use wasting time on an opinonated one.

Remember when I told you that the first statement in John Gospel was cribbed from Philo of Alexandria work, you asked me to show you. I did only for you to melt away from that thread tilll date.

Lukuluku69:
1. Perhaps you need to go buy and read that Gospel of Barnabas again. There is no poser or question from the disciples or anyone that Jesus left unanswered. None

2. Jesus says "another" will come. Guess you have not read the Gospel of John then? The other three did not write about no Comforter but John heard Jesus asaying he will pray the father to send another abi you missed that part ni?

3. The Total of 144,000 is ludicrous to you but not Ludicrous when it says that number will be filled with Jews from their twelve tribes? Abi?

1. So you are saying the mention of the 144,000 in the Gospel of Barnabas is not in Chapter 17, right after the question indicated by Philips?

2. If John is the one who said it, then you should have paid attention to understand who exactly it is that John heard would be sent.

15 “If you love me, you will do what I command.
16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper[a] to be with you forever.
17 The Helper is the Spirit of truth. The people of the world cannot accept him, because they don’t see him or know him. But you know him. He lives with you, and he will be in you.
18 “I will not leave you all alone like orphans. I will come back to you.
19 In a very short time the people in the world will not see me anymore. But you will see me. You will live because I live.
20 On that day you will know that I am in the Father. You will know that you are in me and I am in you.
21 Those who really love me are the ones who not only know my commands but also obey them. My Father will love such people, and I will love them. I will make myself known to them.”
22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “Lord, how will you make yourself known to us, but not to the world?”
23 Jesus answered, “All who love me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them. My Father and I will come to them and live with them.
24 But anyone who does not love me does not obey my teaching. This teaching that you hear is not really mine. It is from my Father who sent me.
25 “I have told you all these things while I am with you.
26 But the Helper will teach you everything and cause you to remember all that I told you. This Helper is the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name. - John 14 vs 15 - 26

Also recall that earlier in the same chapter, Jesus Christ had revealed to His disciples that He is God's Truth, the Word out of God's Mouth.

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. The only way to the Father is through me.
7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father too. But now you know the Father. You have seen him.” - John 14 vs 6 - 7

This information is significant since the Helper is indicated as the Spirit of Truth, the very same one who lives inside of Jesus Christ, and the Father. The details regarding the Helper are also found in John 15 vs 26-27 & John 16 vs 4 - 15 where it is explained that the Helper to come is a subject of Jesus Christ meaning He will only teach that which of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God which belongs to Jesus Christ.

3. It is ludicrous to claim that from the time of Moses, up until the time of Jesus Christ that there have been only 144,000 prophets, this is because, the population of prophets in Israel at the time of Jezebel alone, according to the same book, numbered more than 10,000.

Now the claim that the 144,000 special people sealed by God for His mission to return all the lost sheep of Israel back to Israel are all of Israel is not ludicrous this since according to God, He would send Israel to Isreal, and Israel is His nation of Priests, and in Isaiah, the He proclaimed that the "some" special people He would send would be of Israel.

Lukuluku69:
1. You said you don't do interpretations? Really really? Then you must have a short memory. Have you forgotten what you said about " Rams of Kedar" about Nabiaoth? About Tema? Do you recollect all the fancy stuff you came up with?

2. If context is key for you, then what is the context being king for you when Jesus told the Jews that the Kingdom of God shall be taken from them and given to another Nation bringing the right fruits?

3. I can show you dozens of references where your Yahweh said he will abandon them if they backslides, the question is would you abandon your needle eye view on Israel and dozens of years spent on this indoctrination? Would you? It is no use wasting time on an opinonated one.

4. Remember when I told you that the first statement in John Gospel was cribbed from Philo of Alexandria work, you asked me to show you. I did only for you to melt away from that thread tilll date.

1. I didn't interpret even that as what I stated was exactly what was written in clear text in the context to all who have eyes to see.

2. Are you somehow confusing the Kingdom of God with the Kingdom of Canaan which God promised to the people of Israel in His Old Law of Moses - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20?

3. I can point to you where in those same exact passages or later where the same God makes clear that He would not abandon Israel.

4. I also remember continually badgering you for answers to my question on the exact texts which you claim were plagiarized but you flaked on that.

Kobojunkie:
1. So you are saying the mention of the 144,000 in the Gospel of Barnabas is not in Chapter 17, right after the question indicated by Philips?

2. If John is the one who said it, then you should have paid attention to understand who exactly it is that John heard would be sent.
Also recall that earlier in the same chapter, Jesus Christ had revealed to His disciples that He is God's Truth, the Word out of God's Mouth.
This information is significant since the Helper is indicated as the Spirit of Truth, the very same one who lives inside of Jesus Christ, and the Father. The details regarding the Helper are also found in John 15 vs 26-27 & John 16 vs 4 - 15 where it is explained that the Helper to come is a subject of Jesus Christ meaning He will only teach that which of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God which belongs to Jesus Christ.

3. It is ludicrous to claim that from the time of Moses, up until the time of Jesus Christ that there have been only 144,000 prophets, this is because, the population of prophets in Israel at the time of Jezebel alone, according to the same book, numbered more than 10,000.

Now the claim that the 144,000 special people sealed by God for His mission to return all the lost sheep of Israel back to Israel are all of Israel is not ludicrous this since according to God, He would send Israel to Isreal, and Israel is His nation of Priests, and in Isaiah, the He proclaimed that the "some" special people He would send would be of Israel.

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Baba try and read replies and understand what the poster meant by them. I did not say 144,000 is not found in the chapter you cited what I said was that Jesus of Barnabas Gospel never left any poser or queries left unanswered.

Baba Moses was not the First Jewish prophet, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph were Prophets. Moses was the the Law Giver and the one who organized into a Nation. If Jesus says there has been 144,000 Prophets not only for Israel alone but to all Mankind don't you think it makes a bit more sense? Every where in the World, people have believed in a Supreme Being before Abraham. Enock, Noah, and many others came before Moses or are you saying they were Israelites too?

What I find ludicrous, infantile and outright reprehensible is the fact that God The Most Gloroius will leave all others straying without direction and hang to a people He labelled Reprobates, a people He in his wisdom called whores.

Kobojunkie:
1. I didn't interpret even that as what I stated was exactly what was written in clear text in the context to all who have eyes to see.

2. Are you somehow confusing the Kingdom of God with the Kingdom of Canaan which God promised to the people of Israel in His Old Law of Moses - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20?

3. I can point to you where in those same exact passages or later where the same God makes clear that He would not abandon Israel.

4. I also remember continually badgering you for answers to my question on the exact texts which you claim were plagiarized but you flaked on that.

Baba why you dey lie?

Go back to that thread and read what you typed about Kedar.

I flaked on what? I show you what Philo wrote. You saw it only for you to go mute on the thread? The thread is on Nairaland. Make we revisit am?

Lukuluku69:
1. Baba try and read replies and understand what the poster meant by them. I did not say 144,000 is not found in the chapter you cited what I said was that Jesus of Barnabas Gospel never left any poser or queries left unanswered.

2. Baba Moses was not the First Jewish prophet, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph were Prophets. Moses was the the Law Giver and the one who organized into a Nation. If Jesus says there has been 144,000 Prophets not only for Israel alone but to all Mankind don't you think it makes a bit more sense? Every where in the World, people have believed in a Supreme Being before Abraham. Enock, Noah, and many others came before Moses or are you saying they were Israelites too?

3. What I find ludicrous, infantile and outright reprehensible is the fact that God The Most Gloroius will leave all others straying without direction and hang to a people He labelled Reprobates, a people He in his wisdom called whores.

1. OK, So find me then the answer to the question asked by Philips in Chapter 17 of the Gospel according to Barnabas.

2. The Covenant began with Moses, so Moses was indeed the first of the prophets whom God had appointed according to the Covenant aka the Law of Moses. Now, if you are instead insisting that the claim of 144,000 was instead of all the Prophets God has ever sent to the world from the time of Adam, then I declare that the claim is absolute bunkum. Again, this is because according to the very same book, there were about 10,000 prophets in the land of Israel alone that were slain by Jezebel, and this not counting the over 1000 she couldn't.

Is it me or you are not even making an attempt at processing the significance of the claim at all?

3. God didn't do any of what you claim though. You simply assume He did because you don't quite understand Him and what He did using Israel.

Lukuluku69:
1. Baba why you dey lie?

2. Go back to that thread and read what you typed about Kedar.

3. I flaked on what? I show you what Philo wrote. You saw it only for you to go mute on the thread? The thread is on Nairaland. Make we revisit am?

1. That thread is online to bear me witness.

Here again, is what is written in Isaiah 60 regarding your Kedar mention

1. “Jerusalem, get up and shine! Your Light is coming! The Glory of the Lord will shine on you.
2 Darkness now covers the earth, and the people are in darkness. But the Lord will shine on you, and his Glory will appear over you.
3 Then the nations will come to your light. Kings will come to your bright sunrise.
4 Look around you! See all the people gathering around. Those are your sons coming from far away, and your daughters are there beside them.
5 “At that time you will see your people, and your faces will shine with happiness. First, you will be afraid, but then you will be excited. All the riches from across the seas will be set before you . The riches of the nations will come to you .
6 Herds of camels from Midian and Ephah will cross your land. Long lines of camels will come from Sheba. They will bring gold and incense. People will sing praises to the Lord.
7 People will collect all the sheep from Kedar and give them to you . They will bring you rams from Nebaioth. you will offer those animals on my altar, and I will accept them. I will make my wonderful Temple even more beautiful.
8 Look at the people. They are rushing toward you like clouds quickly crossing the sky. They are like doves flying to their nests.
9 The faraway lands are waiting for me. The great cargo ships are ready to sail. They are ready to bring your children from faraway lands. They will bring silver and gold with them to honor the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel. He has done wonderful things for you. - Isaiah 60 vs 1 - 9

2. See #1 above.
3. I asked you what part of Philos work was plagiarized and you answered not.

Kobojunkie:
When you say literal are you somehow saying John's claim is God's Truth in this? If yes, I don't know of that since there's only one witness to this claim. However, if your question is whether John meant that the number he saw is as written, then my answer is yes, since it was after all his dream/vision.

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God absolutely had no expectations of the Jewish people in this - He knew from even before the people that as a people they would refuse to obey Him yet He chose them anyways and made it abundantly clear to them that His choice had nothing to to with any ideas of goodness in them. He even explained to them right in the Law He gave to them His plan to scatter them to the ends of the world over time, a cursed people for their disobedience of Him, promising to bring them back at the end when they are finally ready for Him to.
To then insist that God later changed His mind about the same Israel because they did exactly that which He knew they would from the beginning is ludicrous.

maximus according to JW theology is saying that the men of the tribes of Israel in Revelation is figurative

TenQ:
according to JW theology is saying that the men of the tribes of Israel in Revelation is figurative

Here's the science fiction-seeming aspect of God's plan. The multitude who are then returned from all corners of the earth come back essentially a Noah's Ark of sorts bearing the DNA of people from every language and every tribe from every Nation on earth. They are all of them Israelites since their ancestry of the stock of Jacob(Israel), the base(foundation) of who they are, however, laid atop that is DNA from all over the world. This is the makeup of the multitude of the Kingdom of Priests God plans to rule over the world with. He will have His one-world government comprised of DNA from all ends of the world over which He is ruler over.

TenQ:

maximus according to JW theology is saying that the men of the tribes of Israel in Revelation is figurative

This is why i keep avoiding you {Romans 16:17} why can't you present what you were taught by your teachers in comparison to that of kobojunkie and Maximus?
Why must it be only Maximus that's talking about what he learned and from where he got it? 1Corinthians 4:7

You people just want to say what you feel about the scriptures so each of you want to stand alone {Luke 11:23} just like the religious teachers that you people choose for yourselves {2Timothy 4:3} in order to have multiple options instead of being submissive to the same line of thought! 1Corinthians 1:10 compare to John 17:20-23

That is why i always hammer or emphasize on telling the forum who taught you these things so everyone can consider the FRUIT your teachers have produced {Matthew 7:16-18} and see if their interpretation is reliable! Hebrews 13:7

Henceforth i won't teach you anything unless you tell this forum who taught you but if you're keeping that to yourself then keep your opinion also to yourself!