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Re: Honest Question To The Christians by 1000WaysToLive(m): 9:23pm On Oct 01, 2022 |
Objective morality doesn't depend on any novel set of premises, let alone the novelty of a singular and cosmic being. -it depends on the same set of premises we use to make any number of (purportedly) factual statements all day every day - which we appear to believe to be reasonable premises, that lead to statements we then affirm as both truth apt and either true or false. Even arguing that a moral statement is untrue and thus not objective......explicitly accepts and leverages those same premises. Objectivists will simply tell you that..surprise, those moral statements are wrong, inaccurate, non facts - as a fact. I would argue, though, whether naturalism stretchs ethics by anyones accounting. The (nutbar)faithful say god decreed x y or z and this is morality - but they still give naturalists reasons for -why- it did that. Is homosex bad because god said so, full stop (and did god say so.....)? Or is it bad because it -harms society and destroys the family, etc etc etc...and that's why god said nyet? The trouble with our historic godly moralities..from the point of view of contemporary moral realism..is not that they got the truth aptness wrong, they just got the specific facts wrong. Their harms fail to be present or materialize. Gods have had a nasty habit of knowing less about reality than we do - or maybe people are just bullshitting each other about what gods are saying? A real stumper. Tamaratonye1: 2 Likes |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by chryssanthe(f): 3:19am On Oct 02, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: Morals do not change.What large sand dune have you stuck your head in? Holy shit, go read your Bible. Your god condones slavery. It's in Leviticus! Leviticus 25:44-46 is the very definition of slavery. 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, AND THEY WILL BECOME YOUR PROPERTY. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as INHERITED PROPERTY and make them SLAVES FOR LIFE, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. Look up the parts I bolded. So this god doesn't want his special tribe owning other Israelites and making slaves out of them but he's A-OK to enslave everyone else. The hypocracy of this god getting all pissed about Israelites being slaves in Egypt but is fine if the Israelites enslave others - is not lost on most thinking, discerning people! Furthermore, the Biblical god slaughters several thousand "first born Egyptian sons" in order to get his favorite people out of Egypt! Here's an ommipotent all powerful god who you probably believe created the universe and everything in it, but he cannot think of a better way of getting Israelites out of Egypt without mass genocide of innocent Egyptian babies and children! And you find this moral? You don't think morals have changed in 2000 to 2400 years? International Human Rights organizations would have a few choice words with your Biblical god!! You need to pull you head out of the damned sand! Geesh! 3 Likes |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Judas1X: 4:09am On Oct 02, 2022 |
Endtimer:You're damn right, stupid. The world will damn well be a better place if the September 11 hijackers had been detained BEFORE they carried out their moral imperative, based on their god belief You are not offering us any assurance whatsoever that you won't ravage some portion of society because your god told you to do it. Your highest moral aspiration is to do god's will. You've said that repeatedly. With a mindset like that you are a dangerous little cunt. You're a ticking time-bomb. So I fully support that they should lock you up and put your ass away, out of reach of society so you don't hurt people, or a whole plaza of people. Or prove once and for all, irrefutably, that you won't follow any command by your god that would wreak lethal destruction. That the world is safe from you even if it isn't safe from your god. Do you even have the guts? The audacity to tell your god NO? Prove it. 3 Likes |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Judas1X: 4:14am On Oct 02, 2022 |
midnight378:That billy goat you quoted is Nairaland's resident illiterate. Lawyer wey no sabi anything. Prepare yourself for more psychotic mumblings and lunatic claims that have no evidence anywhere Hahahahahahaha. Sonmvayina come see your mumu guy. Dem wan roast am alive for this thread |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Judas1X: 4:17am On Oct 02, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: I know your 2kb brain will not realize that you just shot yourself in the foot with a double barrel You're using a THING in your explanation too. You're calling it GOD. So you are just using special pleading under a different guise. If you have any bit of decorum you would bury your ugly head in shame. You're too mentally depleted for any sort of rational discussion. 1 Like |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by afficionado7: 8:26am On Oct 02, 2022 |
The amount of knowledge I've gleaned from this thread is unreal 1 Like |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Dtruthspeaker: 9:51am On Oct 02, 2022 |
Judas1X: Fall of Switching the burden of proof. I made no allegation. But she did. And she has reasonably properly acknowledged the Truth of my Objection so this is over. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Endtimer: 10:29am On Oct 02, 2022 |
Tamaratonye1: We both used a lot of words, but I actually made a point. If you’re intellectually honest you’ll accept that you’ve got nothing to smart to write, so you wax philosophical about meta-ethics and what not. At bottom your response was an admission that your position is based on assumptions (which you are reluctant to explicate) of “morals as they exist in the real world”. Isn’t that objective morality you’ve got there or are you just trying to say that whatever people do in today’s Christianity-influenced world is what you consider “morals as they exist in the real world”. I’d say you were wickedly ignorant of history, but you are the same girl who talks about abhorrent practices in the Old Testament. Doesn’t that count as the real world? Couldn’t someone use your logic to justify those actions by using them as starting assumptions? Not to mention that you state your points as conclusions rather than provide evidence for outlandish claims or explanations as to how I deserve to be detained for my evil and how you are now the sole arbiter of all that is good and lawful in the land. To be frank, I laugh when atheists like you think that you’re ushering in a new Age of Enlightenment. I concede that most Christians (people in general actually) are not smart, but neither are you. You are atheists of convenience, going along with a trend, self-righteous about your superior “understanding” and knowledge of the TruthTM. Ignorant masses smug that they excel ignorant masses of another persuasion in the magnanimity of their ignorance. Other than that, your point is, once again an admission of what I’ve been saying all along, as you sheepishly admit here: Tamaratonye1: In other words, you want us to both be right as none of our positions has “specifically...been demonstrated to be necessarily inconsistent with ethics”. I agree that I am right. You, on the other hand will do well to not assume that anyone agrees with you and prove your points with examples and analogies like the rest of us educated folks do. When you attempt that (you won’t, you will instead dodge the question); you will see how easy it will be to tear down the fallacies of someone who simultaneously believes that good should be done because “we. want. to”, that good doesn’t exist and that somehow 9/11 bombers and Endtimer are bad people for doing what they want to do. You can choose to demonstrate how your nonsense is rational (other than by repeating it), or continue at the womanly, tongue-in-cheek, play at words you’ve employed until now. Until then sis, don’t talk when big folks are talking. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Endtimer: 10:45am On Oct 02, 2022 |
FemiAjani: I respect your measured approach.However your hypothesis doesn’t mimic reality. We are social animals but the problem is that we identify with smaller groups than one would hope. Those groups go to war with one another. That’s how it’s always been. WWII for example was the axis forces vs the allies. Nigeria has constant ethnic tensions as one group battles another. This is the way it is among most primates: small groups form and protect their own interests even at the expense of other groups. Notice, however that powerful nations send aid to countries in need and armies march to protect people on the other side of the world. This is not “natural” human behavior. It is benevolence borne by the ghost of Christianity in the western world. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Endtimer: 10:48am On Oct 02, 2022 |
Judas1X: Ok. I promise not to kill you. Pinky swear even. Doesn’t change the fact that I believe God died for people like you to live forever and she believes that people who don’t do what she decides is good should be jailed. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think it is good planes into buildings. I have a set of things that I think are good (getting married, giving to poor people, helping those in need for example). She thinks that whatever she wants to do is good. Can’t you see who’s more dangerous here? |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Endtimer: 11:40am On Oct 02, 2022 |
Good of you to explain what you mean when you use the term meta ethics. Maybe we can come to understand one another and have a discussion. Understanding one another is the entire point of these things. First, I do not want to harm or kill anyone. That is just absurd: this is the internet so I can’t and more importantly, I don’t want to. Concerning what you wrote, the important part is that “we” decided that harm arbitrarily constitutes immorality. There is nothing intrinsic in harm that can make it bad without appealing to unspoken first principles. We could have as well decided that anything that doesn’t cause harm is immoral and that harm is the highest good. I also agree that if x is good, then it is good. In addition to that I only believe that x is good because it is in God’s nature. That it is imitative of God’s nature makes it moral. From what I can tell meta ethics simply decides that something is good or bad based on personal taste. For instance, harm is bad because we the people say it is; while it was good to vikings as they said it wasn’t. I’m not endorsing their terrorism, but it was also personal taste that flew those planes into those buildings back in 2001. I believe I started this discussion by stating that most here are making the mistake of looking at our ultra-civilized Christianish world and concluding that if we decide to make up good and bad as we go it’ll be alright. Perhaps those people would like to read about the ancient samurai tradition to sodomize little boys (and only little boys) to see what happens in the absence of the Christian morals they think are natural. I look forward to your response. 1000WaysToLive: |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Dtruthspeaker: 11:58am On Oct 02, 2022 |
chryssanthe: Isn't this you living in a grave? This is a Change of Post! The issue you raised was that Moral Law Changes which I showed you that it is people who change and not The Law. So you have gone off point to talk of something else. Leviticus 25:44-46 is the very definition of slavery. But to answer just a short and quick one, first change your Bible to KJV and see that Leviticus 25 deliberately said "bondsmen and bondsmaid" AND NOT SLAVES. AND BOND ARJSES FROM A CONTRACT ISSUE WHICH IS WHY BONDSMEN IS DEFINED AS bondsman /ˈbɒn(d)zmən/ 1. a person who stands surety for a bond... It is an evil man as you already know people are, who will turn a bondsman to the wickedness of a slave as you people do to houseboats and housegirls and even your family's poor child who they gave you thinking that you would be good to them only for you people to turn them into slaves. So this one has nothing to do with God's Law. For more discussions on it raise a thread for this a derailment of the thread. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Dtruthspeaker: 12:13pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
midnight378: The mere fact that you do not know does not mean others do not know something more than you do. Legal Means means man made laws. But Moral Laws aka Natural Laws are not made by men. THEY ARE EVEN THE LAWS WHICH MADE MAN AND EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD. https://www.nairaland.com/7019584/lawyers-every-body-not-deceit https://www.nairaland.com/6989896/lawyers-not-deceit So legal can change because man is the god of legal, so therefore he can do as he likes with it. But he can not change Moral Laws (Natural Laws) for that one is beyond his reach. Which is why the only thing he can do is to either obey or disobey them according to his power. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Dtruthspeaker: 12:25pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Judas1X: Yes! That is what I am saying. . Which is what we all see happens when a criminal who has been evading "just is" gets a compounded allegations (aggravated charges) with its accompanying aggravated punishment like "2 Life time imprisonment". Or like in Contract eg demurrage,/damages "Every day of default". Even your CAC have it in their laws. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Dtruthspeaker: 12:40pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Judas1X: So among all your abundance of insults, this is the only thing you said which attempted to address my post? And in the end, it was a response that IS NOT THE ISSUE. COMPLETELY OFF POINT! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by sonmvayina(m): 1:44pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Judas1X: No mind the guy.. Nah really nutcase |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Tamaratonye1(f): 2:51pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Endtimer:Well, you're wrong. If you don't know the meaning of a term being used, please either ask or look it up. Internet Encyclopedia Of Philosophy || Metaethics The entry at the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy is another resource (link). 4 Likes
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Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Tamaratonye1(f): 2:57pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Tamaratonye1: Endtimer:True, one does well not to simply assume, which is why I generally prefer, to instead base my overall assessment on a reading of the literature of those people who, for lack of a better description, are experts in the area. My point is that you can't rule out these other meta-ethical frameworks as substantive any more than I can rule out the possible existence of God. Not only haven't you done so, with your analogies and examples, I have good reason to suspect that you are incapable of doing so, as having read the literature, I know the difficulty of the task. You seem to think you have something novel to contribute which would set the great philosophers on their heels if they were to hear it, but so far, you do not. You simply have some tired, worn-out chestnuts, a heaping helping of ignorance, and the arrogance which leads you to tread recklessly where angels fear to do so, lol. 3 Likes |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by chryssanthe(f): 3:07pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Endtimer:Quite a non-answer! Would you hurl planes into buildings, if your god told you so? This is a question about you! Not about your god. So please dont try the "my god never would" evasion. Ok. Why? 3 Likes |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by chryssanthe(f): 3:11pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker:Look what your religion has made you do: Defending to own other human beings as property! Unbelievable! In medias res: Nope. Why? Because it says what you want it to say? What was the word used in the original texts? Do you even know? and see that Leviticus 25 deliberately said "bondsmen and bondsmaid" AND NOT SLAVES. How convenient/dishonest of you to ignore the bold part and go on a tangent, trying to slap a somewhat "better" label on Slavery. Firstoff: Even indentured servitude, your and every bad apologists evasion is called, is immoral! Second: The text says you can buy people and that they are your property. I have bolded the parts in capital letters, because you seemed to "overlook" them. DO YOU THINK BUYING PEOPLE AND OWNING THEM AS YOUR PROPERTY IS MORALLY PERMISSIBLE(in any given context)? Oh, come on! Do you really want to pretend you have "overlooked" the "pass them down to your children as property" and "keep them for life" part? Really? It is an evil man as you already know people are, who will turn a bondsman to the wickedness of a slave Please elaborate on the difference between someone you can #1 buy #2 own as property #3 for life #4 pass down to your children as property As commanded, by your god in Leviticus (and elsewhere), and a slave. ...and i am not even talking how your god provided an inhumane loophole to enslave fellow Israelites too! Really, please have a look in the mirror, and understand that your religion has made you defend slavery! 1 Like |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by midnight378: 3:14pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: Wrong again . What are considered "natural laws" varies from culture to culture. The mere fact that you do not know does not mean others do not know something more than you do.LOL .....and when my daddy gets home, he's gonna beat up your daddy. How incredibly childish . You have no evidence, (and you have presented nothing sensible) for this unfounded assertion : "They are the laws which made man and everything in this world." LOL ... and what are these "laws" and exactly where did they come from ? What are these laws which you *claim* "made man and everything in this world", and what are you even talking about ? Provide the evidence. I checked out your posts in the links. They're hot TRASH and I find it hard to believe that a thinking adult created such posts . But he can not change Moral Laws (Natural Laws) for that one is beyond his reach. Prove it with 5 examples. i would propose that modern science disproves this bs claim countless times every day of the week . Let me try to help you. https://iep.utm.edu/natlaw/ 1 Like |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by midnight378: 3:27pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker: You really need to get back to Sunday School and pay attention this time. The entire premise of your religion is that the law changed, and that EVERYTHING changed when your religion started. How is it you are unaware of what your religion teaches ? The ENTIRE set of your religion's "laws" changed. St Paul tried to teach you that the law changed. The New Covenant . 2 Corinthians 3: 7-11 : "Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!" "This new covenant brings a new and complete forgiveness of sins through a better sacrifice (Heb. 7:27; 9:26). In other words , God's new covenant is God's perfect and complete answer to our age-old problem of sin." you should learn about what your cult claims about moral changes. https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q...-abolished. the Old Testament had about 612 things (sorry it's 613) "There are 613 mitzvot in the Torah and they guide Jews on how to live a good life. Jews believe that God gave the mitzvot to Moses and that they formed part of the covenant at Mount Sinai ." your god required of the Chosen People. SIX HUNDRED and THIRTEEN . They all changed. I bet you don't even know 20 of them . I bet Jews don't even know 20 of them. (LOL) 1 Like |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by chryssanthe(f): 3:33pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Dtruthspeaker:You think it is still morally permissible to own human beings as property, to buy them, to inherit them to your children, and keep them for life? ....and, of course, beat them, unless they die within 3 days. That goes without saying. You are either wrong, according to atheists, or immoral, according to yourself. Which one is it? 1 Like |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by chryssanthe(f): 3:52pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Endtimer:Why? 3 Likes |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by 1000WaysToLive(m): 4:00pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
YOU SAID: Good of you to explain what you mean when you use the term meta ethics. Maybe we can come to understand one another and have a discussion. Understanding one another is the entire point of these things. First, I do not want to harm or kill anyone. That is just absurd: this is the internet so I can’t and more importantly, I don’t want to. You're right there in the same boat with the vast majority of the rest of us. However...there are any number of things we might believe we have a moral duty to act on, that we may not -want- to act on. Insomuch as a persons "moral" system is satisfying the whims of a command issuer, if they're truly committed to that, it's unclear whether their wants will be operative. Go kill all the fuckin amalekites you scrubs! "Well..shit, I'd rather not..but if you say so G-man". etc. Amusingly, we find it related to us in magic book that some people did fail with respect to this command issuers orders..that they may have felt obligated towards...just couldn't pull the trigger. They failed to kill, or failed to kill every single x..and for this...they were punished. Do you imagine you'd have been one of those people, on account of how you don;t want to harm or kill anyone? As another poster has asked, would you have the courage to tell a god no? I'd add another question. Would you feel like a -bad- person if you refused to kill a man or a woman or a child on the whims of some god? YOU SAID: Concerning what you wrote, the important part is that “we” decided that harm arbitrarily constitutes immorality. There is nothing intrinsic in harm that can make it bad without appealing to unspoken first principles. We could have as well decided that anything that doesn’t cause harm is immoral and that harm is the highest good. Well, IDK if that's true. If it were up to us to decide what's harmful... then..self interested creatures that we are, we'd decide that nothing would be harmful to us. That's not the world we appear to live in, we don't appear to have any such power or ability. As far as principles..there's nothing we can say about anything..logically, without employing principles. We could have decided that anything that doesn't cause harm is what we'll call immoral, but we'd clearly be talking about something else if we did so. YOU SAID: I also agree that if x is good, then it is good. In addition to that I only believe that x is good because it is in God’s nature. That it is imitative of God’s nature makes it moral. From what I can tell meta ethics simply decides that something is good or bad based on personal taste. For instance, harm is bad because we the people say it is; while it was good to vikings as they said it wasn’t. I’m not endorsing their terrorism, but it was also personal taste that flew those planes into those buildings back in 2001. All well and good..but that's not an objective morality. That's subjective (or even noncognitive) morality. The good or bad making properties are not accurately reported facts of the properties of x, but asserted properties of some gods particular nature. Metaethics is just how we classify the nature of morality under different understandings. Is it based on reporting facts about a matter x? Is it based on reporting facts about a society x? Is it based on reporting facts about a subject x? These are the cognitive positions. Objectivism, relativism, subjectivism. Then there are non cognitives like being based on a persons emotional response. On their sense of taste. Hovering all around all of these things is error theory - which comes in as many flavors as there are metaethical theories. My favorite being the notion that there is an objective moral truth, but human beings always get it wrong for some or no reason. Your own position falls into a metaethical camp....and I do have to point out that it's odd to see a person who thinks that morality is subjective, (inaccurately) criticizing metaethics....for being subjective. Is subjectivism a problem? YOU SAID: I believe I started this discussion by stating that most here are making the mistake of looking at our ultra-civilized Christianish world and concluding that if we decide to make up good and bad as we go it’ll be alright. Perhaps those people would like to read about the ancient samurai tradition to sodomize little boys (and only little boys) to see what happens in the absence of the Christian morals they think are natural. I probably wouldn't put christianity and sodomizing little boys in the same sentence..if I was trying to criticize some -other- thing. Any rate, I don't think that it would be good if we just made up good and bad as we went along either And that's why this christian "morality" of yours fails, in point of fact. It's not based on facts of these matters. It's based on fairy tales we come up with about what god says or does I understand that you really super duper believe in gods, but that won't rescue the ethical system even so. If we don't think it's good to base our morals off what all moral agents are making up, why would it be any better to base our morals off of what a single moral agent made up? Why not facts, instead? Endtimer: 2 Likes |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Dtruthspeaker: 4:07pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
midnight378: That is not True! You are confusing customary law with Natural Law. Natural Law is the same everywhere exactly as there isn't any culture where stealing and adultery is not frowned upon. midnight378: Aren't you the one being childish here saying this? Just say you do not have any reasonable to thing to say further. midnight378: As I said, you don't know! If men made laws is the question not then "Did they not have Law before they made their law? Where they not under Law which they obeyed and were obeying before they made their own version? When the man or people who manufactured their law, was born did they bring the law with them? Secondly, All the laws men make have a time when they made them which the records showed started only around the 12th century Eg The Law of the 12 Tables (Year 449BC) British Treason Act (Year 1351) Suppression Act Year (1414). And Roman legal is the oldest of all man made laws and all other places copied from them. Meanwhile, at that time Roman Law was based on 'Natural Law" which Cicero and other Natural Law,ers influenced and formulated. the state exists to uphold laws which are in harmony with the universal principles of nature. If a state does not uphold right reason in agreement with nature, it is not a state. Cicero. And it is still that same place you people get all those things you call rights from eg Audi altered partem, Nemo judex in causa Sua etc All these coming from Natural Law and not from your man made law called legal. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Tamaratonye1(f): 4:15pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Endtimer:I actually would like to read about this. Can you suggest some reading which would help inform me better regarding this episode in history? |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Dtruthspeaker: 4:20pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
chryssanthe: That is for The God of Moral to Judge! But it is sufficient to know that The God of Morals did command that "that which is good, should be done and that which is not good/evil, should not be done" And we all know those things which are good to do or not do as separate from those things which are not good/evil, to do or not do. So knowing this, "We each walk the path, that we've chosen" Dmx. (And shall be judged by it) |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by 1000WaysToLive(m): 4:37pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Cool...and how did this god of morals know which was which? Dtruthspeaker: |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Dtruthspeaker: 4:42pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
midnight378: Paul did not say they changed he said "they have been brought back afresh since Isreal had continuously and extensively disobeyed bastardized them and changed them For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the Righteousness of God" Romans 10:3 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me,.. Malachi 3:7 So, Isreal too, like the rest of the world made their own laws (legal) and had cast aside God's Laws. Which Christ brought back hence "New Covenant" because it is now new to all of us who are familiar with the legal and have technically never seen those Laws before! That is what Paul was saying, but of course it is expected that criminals would bend it into a way that they can make it comfortable for themselves. |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by Dtruthspeaker: 4:44pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
1000WaysToLive: If you can tell which things are good from those things which are evil, then He Too can. The Creator and Giver of Discernment must surely have plenty of Discernment in Store, exactly like a jobless man cannot give you a job! |
Re: Honest Question To The Christians by 1000WaysToLive(m): 5:00pm On Oct 02, 2022 |
Ostensibly, sure...though I'm not sure gods many allegedly moral proclamations speak to it's moral competence.... But the question merely repeats itself with both of us as the subject. How is it that this god of morals, or I, know which is which? Perhaps I should be more explicit. Are there things that are good or bad as a fact, so that we can know what is good, and what is bad? Or, more accurately, is gods commandment not fact based at all, and adjusted for accuracy, would read something more like "Do whatever I tell you to do, and don't do whatever I tell you not to" Or "Do what I like, don't do what I hate" ..........? Dtruthspeaker: 1 Like |
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