If God is d creator of everything, how can d devil he created be his adversary?
��

EgenaT:
If God is d creator of everything, how can d devil he created be his adversary?
��

Good question.

BluntTheApostle:
But evil has made him fail countless times.

God has never experienced failure

BluntTheApostle:
It is in the Bible.

The flood story, and his almost daily squabbles with the Israelites.

The flood story, and the situation with the Israelites in the Bible are not failures, attributed to God (i.e. are not caused by God)

BluntTheApostle:
I am trying to imagine the wisdom in being all-powerful, and yet weak in character.

Smh, what did I just read here said about God

BluntTheApostle:
Perhaps, God did not make a perfect plan.

Why dont you put forward and present a better plan

BluntTheApostle:
There would have been no need for Jeaus Christ at all.

That is my point.

Your point is not worthy for any discussion, simply because without God, in the person of Jesus Christ, stepping forward, then the act of atonement wont happen, and consequently the plan of redemption, salvation and reconciliation too wouldn't have been possible.

BluntTheApostle:
Since Adam did not choose to be created, it is only fair to treat him with some consideration.

Creativity is encouraged. Ut doesn't wait for that perfect moment and so Adam, a creativity, formulated from an innovative and creative in thinking mind, was given every right, bar one, same as God's. What could be more fairer than doing that. Huh?

The kind of choice you arguing here about stifles creativity. The moment you recognise that rule(s) are set for a purpose(s), the better you'll see all these matters clearly under that light

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

americanigga:
If what you say is true. Why did Adam and Eve not pass the temptation?

Machiavellian manoeuvres?
Underperformance?
Squandered their potential?
Indifference?
Treachery?
Faithlessness?
Backstabbing?
Twisted ambition?
Dishonesty?

The list goes on

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

LordReed:
Maybe you don't understand what I am addressing. This should clue you in after a 2nd look:

Again, your question does not make any sense given the topic and discussion.

EgenaT:
If God is d creator of everything, how can d devil he created be his adversary?��

God is creator of everything means God also created that which we call Evil. God is sovereign means God uses Evil in accomplishing His Will.

God offered Adam a choice between obedience(good) and disobedience(evil) and Adam chose the way of disobedience(evil).

americanigga:
If what you say is true. Why did Adam and Eve not pass the temptation?

First of all, why do you assume they did not pass the temptation?

If you consider it carefully, what we call temptation is usually not a pass or fail issue, but a choice. You are typically presented with two options- good and evil - and you weigh both to decide which you believe is best for you, and then register your choice using by the action that follows. In your mind, you are typically aware which is the "good" and "evil" of the choices before you, so at the point where your choice is registered, you are already fully aware of what you have done. So, really it isn't a pass of fail with all temptation.

From the story, Adam and Eve made a choice to disobey God. They were overwhelmed in any way or form by the choice they had to make. They decided of their own to go it alone, against God..

Kobojunkie:


Again, your question does not make any sense given the topic and discussion.

That means the 2nd part of your initial response made no sense then. thanks for clearing that up. LoLz.

LordReed:
That means the 2nd part of your initial response made no sense then. thanks for clearing that up. LoLz.

Ok

Before anyone think of evils, God already know so why didn't he stopped the sapient from deceiving Eve?

Rufii:
Before anyone think of evils, God already know so why didn't he stopped the sapient from deceiving Eve?

Convenient excuse there, right?

BluntTheApostle:



So, sending someone to eternal damnation for a lifetime of sin is just?

You have all forgotten that Adam and Eve did not even know good from evil until they ate of that tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

God does not send ppl to eternal hell.

That's Bible misinterpretation.


https://www.nairaland.com/6326489/understanding-facts-truth-hellfire

blueAgent:


God does not send ppl to eternal hell.

That's Bible misinterpretation.


https://www.nairaland.com/6326489/understanding-facts-truth-hellfire

I am not talking about hell fire, but DAMNATION (the second death).

Rufii:
Before anyone think of evils, God already know so why didn't he stopped the sapient from deceiving Eve?

Better don't mind these people.

BluntTheApostle:


I am not talking about hell fire, but DAMNATION (the second death).

I don't understand,
You mean God should let sinners go without punishment?

blueAgent:
God does not send ppl to eternal hell.
That's Bible misinterpretation.
https://www.nairaland.com/6326489/understanding-facts-truth-hellfire

Interesting claim!

You are saying that the greek manuscripts got it entirely wrong that the fire would be eternal - eonian?

BluntTheApostle:
I am not talking about hell fire, but DAMNATION (the second death).

The second Death is Eternal Damnation. The First Death as described in Genesis 3 vs 19 -22 insists that unbelievers perish in the grave. That First death is not eternal in nature since clearly those who cease to exist have no eternal life/trail.

Kobojunkie:
The second Death is Eternal Damnation. The First Death as described in Genesis 3 vs 19 -22 insists that unbelievers perish in the grave. That First death is not eternal in nature since clearly those who cease to exist have no eternal life/trail.

Did you read my post?

Hope you all notice we going back to the Naked Era??

Child of the world's

BluntTheApostle:
Did you read my post?

You mean the one below?

BluntTheApostle:
I am not talking about hell fire, but DAMNATION (the second death).

Well, Hellfire is the Second Death, and it is Eternal Damnation.

Rufii:
Before anyone think of evils, God already know so why didn't he stopped the sapient from deceiving Eve?

Why should God have stopped Eve from making the choice that Eve wanted?

blueAgent:


I don't understand,
You mean God should let sinners go without punishment?

Supposing a man leads a sinful life for 70 years, and you punish him eternally, is that a fair judgement?

It is like killing a man for stealing maggi.

One important characteristic of good judgement is FAIRNESS.

Judgement must fit the crime. Not too much for the crime, and not negligible with respect to the crime.

And God is a JUST God. His punishment ought to be JUST.

Kobojunkie:
You mean the one below?
Well, Hellfire is the Second Death, and it is Eternal Damnation.

Hell fire is used to kill the soul.

When the soul is dead, the fire goes out.

The death of the soul is the SECOND DEATH.

Hell fire is just a tool.

Hell is the place (or STATE) of the dead (those who have died eternally).

BluntTheApostle:
1. Hell fire is used to kill the soul. When the soul is dead, the fire goes out.

2. The death of the soul is the SECOND DEATH. Hell fire is just a tool. Hell is the place of the dead (those who have died eternally).

1. Where in scripture did you get this idea of yours from?

2. You need to use scripture to expand on these claims of yours because I have no clue where in scripture these ideas you spew come from.

BluntTheApostle:
1. Supposing a man leads a sinful life for 70 years, and you punish him eternally, is that a fair judgement? It is like killing a man for stealing maggi. One important characteristic of good judgement is FAIRNESS.

2. Judgement must fit the crime. Not too much for the crime, and not negligible with respect to the crime. And God is a JUST God. His punishment ought to be JUST.

1. Was the man born-again? I mean how did the man obtain eternal life which would go towards eternal punishment?

2. Judgment must fit the crime? How? In Adam's case, for instance, the punishment for the crime was already made known to Him before he supposedly committed the crime meaning he accepted the consequence the moment he made the choice.

By the way, Adam did not have eternal life... you were clearly informed of this from the beginning, were you not? What that means is that adam ceased to exist the moment when he died. i.e. his mind, body, and soul was returned to the dust from which it was made - no eternal trace of the man exists since he did not have eternal life, to begin with.

Only those who have eternal life can go on to spend it either in eternal reward or eternal damnation. Those who don't have eternal life cannot do any of that. They simply cease to exist when they die.

Kobojunkie:
1. Was the man born-again? I mean how did the man obtain eternal life which would go towards eternal punishment?

2. Judgment must fit the crime? How? In Adam's case, for instance, the punishment for the crime was already made known to Him before he supposedly committed the crime meaning he accepted the consequence the moment he made the choice.

By the way, Adam did not have eternal life... you were clearly informed of this from the beginning, were you not? What that means is that adam ceased to exist the moment when he died. i.e. his mind, body, and soul was returned to the dust from which it was made - no eternal trace of the man exists since he did not have eternal life, to begin with.

Only those who have eternal life can go on to spend it either in eternal reward or eternal damnation. Those who don't have eternal life cannot do any of that. They simply cease to exist when they die.

My good friend, I will come and answer all your questions soon.

I actually came to Nairaland to check on some news updates.

I don't have much free time.

But I shall come back soon.

Take care, my good friend.

Kobojunkie:
Interesting claim!

You are saying that the greek manuscripts got it entirely wrong that the fire would be eternal - eonian?

Jude 1:7 ►

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal
fire.

Is Sodom and Gomorraha still burning today?

blueAgent:
Jude 1:7 ►
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal
fire.

Is Sodom and Gomorraha still burning today?

Are you seriously attempting to argue against Jesus Christ, God's very Law in the Kingdom of God, by using an abstract reference to the punishment that God visited on the people of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha by a man called Jude?

The following comparisons were made by Jesus Christ in His Gospel, so, they are worth considering first.

A. Judgment for Sodom and Gomorrah happened when the people were destroyed

14 And if the people in a home or a town refuse to welcome you or listen to you, then leave that place and shake the dust off your feet.
15 I can assure you that on the judgment day it will be worse for that town than for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. - Matthew 10 vs 14 - 15

B. The people of Sodom were not given signs before they were destroyed

23 “And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to heaven? No! You will be thrown down to the place of death. I did many miracles in you. If these same miracles had happened in Sodom, the people there would have stopped sinning, and it would still be a city today.
24 But I tell you, it will be worse for you in the day of judgment than for Sodom.” - Matthew 11 vs 23 - 24

C. Judgment for the poeople of Sodom happened in the past

10 “But if you go into a town and the people don’t welcome you, then go out into the streets of that town and say,
11 ‘Even the dirt from your town that sticks to our feet we wipe off against you. But remember that God’s kingdom is coming soon.’
12 I tell you, on the judgment day it will be worse for the people of that town than for the people of Sodom. - Luke 10 vs 10 - 12

D. At the time God judged and destroyed Sodom, the people were going about their normal routines unaware of what was about to befall them.

28 “It will be the same as during the time of Lot, when God destroyed Sodom. Those people were eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, and building houses for themselves.
29 They were doing these things even on the day when Lot left town. Then fire and sulfur rained down from the sky and killed them all.
30 This is exactly how it will be when the Son of Man comes again. - Luke 17 vs 28 - 30

If Jude was attempting here to make a comparison similar to that formally spoken by Jesus Christ in regards to the judgment which waits for those who refuse to heed His warnings, then, the comparison made by Jude of those individuals to the plight that befall Sodom and Gomorrah takes on new light...

5 I want to help you remember some things you already know: Remember that the Lord saved his people by bringing them out of the land of Egypt. But later he destroyed all those who did not believe.
6 And remember the angels who lost their authority to rule. They left their proper home. So the Lord has kept them in darkness, bound with everlasting chains, to be judged on the great day.
7 Also, remember the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and the other towns around them. Like those angels they were full of sexual sin and involved themselves in sexual relations that are wrong. And they suffer the punishment of eternal fire, an example for us to see. - Jude 1 vs 5 - 7

.... only since Jude's audience is of sinners who have eternal life, the punishment of eternal life is what awaits them at the end, instead of a fire like the one that destroyed the people of Sodom on its day of judgment.

See attached from the greek extract of Jude 1 vs 7

Kobojunkie:
Are you seriously attempting to argue against Jesus Christ, God's very Law in the Kingdom of God, by using an abstract reference to the punishment that God visited on the people of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha by a man called Jude?

Following comparisons where made by Jesus Christ in His Gospel, so, they are worth considering first.

A. Judgment for Sodom and Gomorrah happened when the people were destroyed
B. The people of Sodom were not given signs before they were destroyed
C. Judgment for the poeople of Sodom happened in the past
D. At the time God judged and destroyed Sodom, the people were going about their normal routines unaware of what was about to befall them.


If Jude was attempting here to make a comparison similar to that formally spoken by Jesus Christ in regards to the judgement which waits those who refuse to heed His warnings, then, the comparison made by Jude of those individuals to the plight that befall Sodom and Gomorrah takes on new light....
.... only since Jude's audience is of sinners who have eternal life, the punishment of eternal life is what awaits them at the end, instead of a fire like the one that destroyed the people of Sodom on its day of judgment.

See attached from the greek extract of Jude 1 vs 7

What are you even saying?

Who said humans have eternal life?
So Sodom and Gomorrha ppl had eternal life?

Stop teaching heresies.

BluntTheApostle:


Supposing a man leads a sinful life for 70 years, and you punish him eternally, is that a fair judgement?

It is like killing a man for stealing maggi.

One important characteristic of good judgement is FAIRNESS.

Judgement must fit the crime. Not too much for the crime, and not negligible with respect to the crime.

And God is a JUST God. His punishment ought to be JUST.

I should be asking you that.

Check my topics, I never believed in eternal hell fire or everlasting fire.

blueAgent:
1. What are you even saying? Who said humans have eternal life?
2. So Sodom and Gomorrha ppl had eternal life? Stop teaching heresies.

1. Those who are born-again have eternal life which they then go on to spend in either of eternal reward(Heaven) or eternal damnation(Hellfire). That is what Jesus Christ Himself taught His followers. Only those who enter into the Kingdom of God . i.e. are born-again, can have a part in the Kingdom of God where Heaven and Hell are born domained - John 3 vs 1 - 8 & Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 27 & Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46. All other ideas are heretical.

2. Jude clearly didn't say the people of Sodom and Gomorrah have eternal life as you seem to assume. Read carefully what he instead said as in the image below.

Kobojunkie:
1. Those who are born-again have eternal life which they then go on to spend in either of eternal reward(Heaven) or eternal damnation(Hellfire). That is what Jesus Christ Himself taught His followers. Only those who enter into the Kingdom of God . i.e. are born-again, can have a part in the Kingdom of God where Heaven and Hell are born domained - John 3 vs 1 - 8 & Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 27 & Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46. All other ideas are heretical.

2. Jude clearly didn't say the people of Sodom and Gomorrah have eternal life as you seem to assume. Read carefully what he instead said as in the image below.

You are confused.

How can born again ppl have eternal life and still spend it in Hell fire?

Stop twisting God's word.