I can’t help but wonder why the changes in church doctrines and dogmas if they are biblical?

The Bible hasn’t changed since I was young Sunday student and in primary 3. But I can’t count the numbers of church doctrines and dogmas that have changed over the years.

When these doctrines and dogmas were been proposed and propounded, we were meant to understand that they were biblical.

The propounders often quoted biblical passages to support their position and threatened hell fire in the absence of compliance.

Few years down the road, these doctrines and dogmas have either been modified or changed completely.

The devil’s box that was devilish and one thing that could send people to hell, no longer sends people to hell.

And this makes me wonder what happened?

Did the church management simply misrepresented facts using Bible passages as a back up?

Are these doctrines and dogmas actually biblical?

Are they just psychological conditioning tools and not biblical per se?

What do you think?

litigator:
I can’t help but wonder why the changes in church doctrines and dogmas if they are biblical?

The Bible hasn’t changed since I was young Sunday student and in primary 3. But I can’t count the numbers of church doctrines and dogmas that have changed over the years.

When these doctrines and dogmas were been proposed and propounded, we were meant to understand that they were biblical.

The propounders often quoted biblical passages to support their position and threatened hell fire in the absence of compliance.

Few years down the road, these doctrines and dogmas have either been modified or changed completely.

The devil’s box that was devilish and one thing that could send people to hell, no longer sends people to hell.

And this makes me wonder what happened?

Did the church management simply misrepresented facts using Bible passages as a back up?

Are these doctrines and dogmas actually biblical?

Are they just psychological conditioning tools and not biblical per se?

What do you think?

Because their former lies have gone stale with time, so they need new ones or
They have seen that they were wrong before.

litigator:
1.I can’t help but wonder why the changes in church doctrines and dogmas if they are biblical? The Bible hasn’t changed since I was young Sunday student and in primary 3. But I can’t count the numbers of church doctrines and dogmas that have changed over the years. When these doctrines and dogmas were been proposed and propounded, we were meant to understand that they were biblical. The propounders often quoted biblical passages to support their position and threatened hell fire in the absence of compliance. Few years down the road, these doctrines and dogmas have either been modified or changed completely. The devil’s box that was devilish and one thing that could send people to hell, no longer sends people to hell. And this makes me wonder what happened?

2. Did the church management simply misrepresented facts using Bible passages as a back up? Are these doctrines and dogmas actually biblical? Are they just psychological conditioning tools and not biblical per se? What do you think?

1. You find the same pattern wherever you find religion. So, this isn't in any way unique to the Christian religion. Religion is a system that is built on doctrines and traditions conjured up in the minds of men and designed by men with the intention of wielding authority and power over the minds and lives of their fellow men. So naturally, it follows that there will be many interpretations as each sect will work to dominate its own base using its own version of the template.

2. By church management do you mean the men who set themselves up as leaders over a particular sect, tribe, denomination, etc in the religion? Well, duh! Again, this pattern here is in no way unique to any one religion as every religion out there is implicated. So long as it is headed by humans or humans install themselves as leaders or authorities over others, the same exact pattern is to be expected.

What is commonly called church doctrine is more of church administration. Church administration, tradition and mode of operation can change. Bible doctrine doesn't change, understanding can improve. We don't all have equal understanding.

It's hard to assess the credibility of your claims since you haven't actually mentioned any dogma or doctrine of Christianity which has changed.

litigator:
I can’t help but wonder why the changes in church doctrines and dogmas if they are biblical?

The Bible hasn’t changed since I was young Sunday student and in primary 3. But I can’t count the numbers of church doctrines and dogmas that have changed over the years.

When these doctrines and dogmas were been proposed and propounded, we were meant to understand that they were biblical.

The propounders often quoted biblical passages to support their position and threatened hell fire in the absence of compliance.

Few years down the road, these doctrines and dogmas have either been modified or changed completely.

The devil’s box that was devilish and one thing that could send people to hell, no longer sends people to hell.

And this makes me wonder what happened?

Did the church management simply misrepresented facts using Bible passages as a back up?

Are these doctrines and dogmas actually biblical?

Are they just psychological conditioning tools and not biblical per se?

What do you think?

IslamIsIdiotic:
It's hard to assess the credibility of your claims since you haven't actually mentioned any dogma or doctrine of Christianity which has changed.

What doctrine of Christianity do you know of? Name one and I can help you see what you pretend not to see there.

You're the one who claims that doctrines and dogmas of Christianity keep changing, but failed to give just one example to prove your point.
The most important doctrine of Christianity is that Christ died for the sins of mankind. I'm not aware that this doctrine has changed any time recently.

Kobojunkie:
What doctrine of Christianity do you know of? Name one and I can help you see what you pretend not to see there.

IslamIsIdiotic:
You're the one who claims that doctrines and dogmas of Christianity keep changing, but failed to give just one example to prove your point.
2. The most important doctrine of Christianity is that Christ died for the sins of mankind. I'm not aware that this doctrine has changed any time recently.

1. I didn't fail! Instead, I asked that you state one we could run with.

2. That doctrine contravenes Jesus Christ as it selects just the teachings that speak of Jesus Christ for the world while conveniently ignoring Jesus Christ's other teachings which then clearly define the world for which He came to die for in more detail. In His teachings, Jesus Christ indicates that He was sent by the Father only to the lost sheep of Isreal - Matthew 15 vs 24 - the sinners amongst them and not the righteous amongst them - Luke 5 vs 27 - 39 - the sick who are in need of a physician - Mark 2 vs 17. For this reason, Jesus Christ sent His disciples only to the lost sheep of Israel - Matthew 10 vs 5 - 7 - instructing them not to give to the dogs that which is Holy - Matthew 7 vs 6. So, you see, it is false to claim that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all of mankind without pointing out that mankind in this case refers to the lost sheep of Israel.

Understanding of issues does improve.
It like a science or engineering student who has lost mark in time past rejecting advances in those principles he or she was examined in in order to build a foundation for a challenge of his lost marks and grades.

The world that Jesus died for is the entire of mankind, otherwise John 3:16 makes no sense:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

In Isaiah 42:6 we are explicitly told that the Gentiles are included in Messiah's salvation plan for mankind:

I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, And will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,
And give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

So clearly, Christ's rescue mission wasn't solely for the Jews but for everyone who believed on His Name. (Acts 2:21)

Kobojunkie:
1. I didn't fail! Instead, I asked that you state one we could run with.

2. That doctrine contravenes Jesus Christ as it selects just the teachings that speak of Jesus Christ for the world while conveniently ignoring Jesus Christ's other teachings which then clearly define the world for which He came to die for in more detail. In His teachings, Jesus Christ indicates that He was sent by the Father only to the lost sheep of Isreal - Matthew 15 vs 24 - the sinners amongst them and not the righteous amongst them - Luke 5 vs 27 - 39 - the sick who are in need of a physician - Mark 2 vs 17. For this reason, Jesus Christ sent His disciples only to the lost sheep of Israel - Matthew 10 vs 5 - 7 - instructing them not to give to the dogs that which is Holy - Matthew 7 vs 6. So, you see, it is false to claim that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all of mankind without pointing out that mankind in this case refers to the lost sheep of Israel.

IslamIsIdiotic:
1. The world that Jesus died for is the entire of mankind, otherwise John 3:16 makes no sense:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

2. In Isaiah 42:6 we are explicitly told that the Gentiles are included in Messiah's salvation plan for mankind: I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, And will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, And give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

3. So clearly, Christ's rescue mission wasn't solely for the Jews but for everyone who believed on His Name. (Acts 2:21)

1. Repeating the errors contained in the doctrinal messages you have been fed does not resolve this at all. You cannot pick what is stated in John 3 vs 16, and other verses that make reference to a world, while abandoning all other verses that break down the definition of that world — also using search filters as a way of resolving the Gospel teachings of Jesus Christ is seriously a joke.

The same Jesus Christ that gave you John 3 vs 16 also gave you all the other teachings I indicated in my previous post and more. So, when you pick only those verses that resolve your previously determined belief of choice, you disconnect your doctrine from Jesus Christ and His Gospel entirely.

2. I am afraid you misconstrue what is written in Isaiah 42.

6 “I, the Lord, was right to call you. I will hold your hand and protect you. You will be the sign of my agreement with the people. You will be a light for the other nations.
7 You will make the blind able to see. You will free those who are held as captives. You will lead those who live in darkness out of their prison.
8 “I am Yahweh. That is my name. I will not give my glory to another. I will not let statues take the praise that should be mine.
9 In the past, I told you what would happen, and it happened! Now I am telling you something new, and I am telling you now, before it happens.” - Isaiah 42 vs 6 - 9

What Isaiah 42 instead says is that God's agreement is to a particular people, not to all the other nations apart from the one people with whom the agreement was made with. The agreement will however be a light for other nations. So, this passage clearly does not support the claim that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all of mankind.

3. Well, as He said to you, you should not give that which is Holy(the agreement from God) to the dogs — those who are not of the lost sheep of Israel — so you have to decide if Jesus Christ Himself lied or if your theory is what is not of Jesus Christ.

P.S. By the way, a Jew is one descended from the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, or Levi. they are only a subset of the tribes of Israel. So, do not assume then that all non-Jews are also non-Israelites.

What does Jesus mean in Matthew 24:14 when Jesus says as follows

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

Kobojunkie:
1. Repeating the errors contained in the doctrinal messages you have been fed does not resolve this at all. You cannot pick what is stated in John 3 vs 16, and other verses that make reference to a world, while abandoning all other verses that break down the definition of that world — also using search filters as a way of resolving the Gospel teachings of Jesus Christ is seriously a joke.

The same Jesus Christ that gave you John 3 vs 16 also gave you all the other teachings I indicated in my previous post and more. So, when you pick only those verses that resolve your previously determined belief of choice, you disconnect your doctrine from Jesus Christ and His Gospel entirely.

2. I am afraid you misconstrue what is written in Isaiah 42.
What Isaiah 42 instead says is that God's agreement is to a particular people, not to all the other nations apart from the one people with whom the agreement was made with. The agreement will however be a light for other nations. So, this passage clearly does not support the claim that Jesus Christ died for the sins of all of mankind.

3. Well, as He said to you, you should not give that which is Holy(the agreement from God) to the dogs — those who are not of the lost sheep of Israel — so you have to decide if Jesus Christ Himself lied or if your theory is what is not of Jesus Christ.

P.S. By the way, a Jew is one descended from the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, or Levi. they are only a subset of the tribes of Israel. So, do not assume then that all non-Jews are also non-Israelites.

IslamIsIdiotic:
What does Jesus mean in Matthew 24:14 when Jesus says as follows "And this gospel of [b]the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."[/b]

Jesus Christ did send His disciples out into the world to teach the Gospel to those who are in the world, those who are of the lost sheep of Israel of course. And each one of them was instructed to let the light of Jesus Christ inside of them shine so that all the world will see it - Mark 16 vs 15 & Matthew 24 vs 14. Basically, pretty much what is written in Isaiah 42 vs 6 which you quoted earlier.

So what did Jesus mean when He said:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”

(Matt. 28:16–20.)

Who are ALL NATIONS?

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ did send His disciples out into the world to teach the Gospel to those who are in the world, those who are of the lost sheep of Israel of course. And each one of them was instructed to let the light of Jesus Christ inside of them shine so that all the world will see it - Mark 16 vs 15 & Matthew 24 vs 14. Basically, pretty much what is written in Isaiah 42 vs 6 which you quoted earlier.

IslamIsIdiotic:
So what did Jesus mean when He said:Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matt. 28:16–20.) Who are ALL NATIONS?

Just so you are clear on who God promised Jesus Christ, just as Jesus Christ made clear to you in HIs Gospel.

1. “Everything that I have mentioned will happen to you—both the blessings and the curses. And you will remember these words when the Lord your God sends you away to other nations.
2 Then you and your descendants will turn back to the Lord your God. You will follow him with all your heart and completely obey all his commands that I have given you today.
3 Then the Lord your God will be kind to you. The Lord your God will make you free again! He will bring you back from the nations where he sent you.
4 Even if you were sent to the farthest parts of the earth, the Lord your God will gather you from there and bring you back.
5 The Lord your God will bring you into the land your ancestors had, and the land will become yours. He will do good to you, and you will have more than your ancestors had. You will have more people in your nation than they ever had.
6 The Lord your God will make you and your descendants want to obey him.[a] Then you will love the Lord your God with all your heart. And you will live! - Deuteronomy 30 vs 1 - 6

God warned Israel from the beginning that He will end up cursing them all and scattering them all over the earth for their disobedience, to eventually gather them back again at His appointed time.

21 “The people of Israel ruined my holy name wherever they went, and I felt sorry for my name.
22 So tell the family of Israel that this is what the Lord God says: ‘Family of Israel, you ruined my holy name in the places where you went. I am going to do something to stop this. I will not do it for your sake, Israel. I will do it for my holy name.
23 I will show the nations how holy my great name really is. You ruined my good name in those nations! But I will show you that I am holy. I will make you respect my name, and then those nations will know that I am the Lord.’” This is what the Lord God said.
24 “I will take you out of those nations, gather you together, and bring you back to your own land.
25 Then I will sprinkle pure water on you and make you pure. I will wash away all your filth, the filth from those nasty idols, and I will make you pure.
26 I will also put a new spirit in you to change your way of thinking. I will take out the heart of stone from your body and give you a tender, human heart.
27 I will put my Spirit inside you[c] and change you so that you will obey my laws. You will carefully obey my commands.
28 Then you will live in the land that I gave to your ancestors. You will be my people, and I will be your God.
29 Also, I will save you and keep you from becoming unclean. I will command the grain to grow. I will not bring a famine against you.
30 I will give you large crops of fruit from your trees and the harvest from your fields so that you will never again feel the shame of being hungry in a foreign country.
31 You will remember the bad things you did. You will remember that those things were not good. Then you will hate yourselves because of your sins and the terrible things you did.”
32 The Lord God says, “I want you to remember this: I am not doing these things for your good! I am doing them for my good name. Family of Israel, you should be ashamed and embarrassed about the way you lived!” - Ezekiel 36 vs 21 - 32

That is God's message— one of several entries found in the book of Ezekiel— to the Family of Israel promising Jesus Christ — God's New Covenant — with which His intention is to clean and transform them, the Family of Israel, into that which He desires for the sake of His Holy Name.

31 This is what the Lord said, “The time is coming when I will make a new agreement with the family of Israel and with the family of Judah.
32 It will not be like the agreement I made with their ancestors. I made that agreement when I took them by the hand and brought them out of Egypt. I was their master, but they broke that agreement.” This message is from the Lord.
33 “In the future I will make this agreement with the people of Israel.” This message is from the Lord. “I will put my teachings in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
34 People will not have to teach their neighbors and relatives to know the Lord, because all people, from the least important to the most important, will know me.” This message is from the Lord. “I will forgive them for the evil things they did. I will not remember their sins.”
35 He makes the sun shine in the day, and he makes the moon and the stars shine at night. He stirs up the sea so that its waves crash on the shore. The Lord All-Powerful is his name. This is what the Lord says:
36 “The descendants of Israel will never stop being a nation. That would happen only if I lost control of the sun, moon, stars, and sea.”
37 The Lord says, “I will never reject the descendants of Israel. That would happen only if people could measure the sky above, and learn all the secrets of the earth below. Only then would I reject them for the bad things they have done.” This message is from the Lord.- Jeremiah 31 vs 31- 37

Above is just one of the many entries in the book of Jeremiah confirming God's agreement promised only to the Family of Israel.

18 “They have evil thoughts and do evil things, so I am coming to punish them. I will gather all nations and all people. Everyone will be gathered together to see my Glory.[c]
19 I will put a mark on some of the people. I will send some of these saved people to the nations of Tarshish, Libya,[d] Lud[e] (the land of archers), Tubal,[f] Greece, and all the faraway lands. Those people have never heard my teachings. They have never seen my Glory. So the saved people will tell the nations about my glory.
20 And they will bring all your brothers and sisters from those other nations to my holy mountain[g] Jerusalem as an offering to the Lord. Your brothers and sisters will ride on horses, mules, camels, and in chariots and wagons. They will be like the gifts that the Israelites bring on clean plates to the Temple of the Lord.
21 I will also choose some of these people to be priests and Levites.” The Lord himself said this. - Isaiah 66 vs 18 - 21

This excerpt from the book of Isaiah is to confirm the actual mission for which God sent the disciples out to accomplish in the rest of the world, and that is to bring back their brothers and sisters— all of the Israelite descent— from the ends of the earth, back to Israel as God promised He would back in His Old Law which He gave to Israel.

40 After Jesus told them this, he showed them his hands and his feet.
41 The followers were amazed and very, very happy to see that Jesus was alive. They still could not believe what they saw. He said to them, “Do you have any food here?”
42 They gave him a piece of cooked fish.
43 While the followers watched, he took the fish and ate it.
44 Jesus said to them, “Remember when I was with you before? I said that everything written about me must happen—everything written in the Law of Moses, the books of the prophets, and the Psalms.”
45 Then Jesus helped the followers understand these Scriptures about him.
46 Jesus said to them, “It is written that the Messiah would be killed and rise from death on the third day.
47-48 You saw these things happen—you are witnesses. You must go and tell people that they must change and turn to God, which will bring them his forgiveness. You must start from Jerusalem and tell this message in my name to the people of all nations.
49 Remember that I will send you the one my Father promised. Stay in the city until you are given that power from heaven.” - Luke 24 vs 40 - 49

So, when Jesus Christ stated that He was the one written of in the Law of Moses, the books of the prophets, and even the Psalms, He did not mean just the bits and pieces here and there, He meant that He was the one to bring back God's scattered Israel promised from the beginning.

You still haven't answered my question. Who are the people referenced as ALL THE NATIONS in Matthew 28:19:

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Who are ALL THE NATIONS?

Kobojunkie:
Just so you are clear on who God promised Jesus Christ, just as Jesus Christ made clear to you in HIs Gospel.
God warned Israel from the beginning that He will end up cursing them all and scattering them all over the earth for their disobedience, to eventually gather them back again at His appointed time.
That is God's message— one of several entries found in the book of Ezekiel— to the Family of Israel promising Jesus Christ — God's New Covenant — with which His intention is to clean and transform them, the Family of Israel, into that which He desires for the sake of His Holy Name.
Above is just one of the many entries in the book of Jeremiah confirming God's agreement promised only to the Family of Israel.
This excerpt from the book of Isaiah is to confirm the actual mission for which God sent the disciples out to accomplish in the rest of the world, and that is to bring back their brothers and sisters— all of the Israelite descent— from the ends of the earth, back to Israel as God promised He would back in His Old Law which He gave to Israel.
So, when Jesus Christ stated that He was the one written of in the Law of Moses, the books of the prophets, and even the Psalms, He did not mean just the bits and pieces here and there, He meant that He was the one to bring back God's scattered Israel promised from the beginning.

IslamIsIdiotic:
You still haven't answered my question. Who are the people referenced as ALL THE NATIONS in Matthew 28:19:Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Who are ALL THE NATIONS?

As explained in my previous post to you, God scattered Israel to all the nations of the earth —every tribe, every tongue, and every Nation of the earth —and promised He would gather them all back to Himself at His appointed time. Jesus is the good shepherd whom God sent to gather them, and so He sent His disciples out as fishers of men to go into All the Nations — every tribe, every language, and every Nation — to fish out from amongst the Gentiles and give His teachings to every one of Israel that was scattered by God.

Your interpretation may work for some other parts of Scripture (such as the copy paste ones you've been bandying around) but it makes absolutely no sense when applied to Matthew 28:19.

In order for your theory to be right, certain facts would have to be accepted which fall outside the boundaries of basic intelligence and common sense. For example, if the Scripture was only meant for the lost children of Israel and if these lost children are (according to you) scattered amongst ALL THE NATIONS, then who are the lost Israelites among the Yorubas, Efiks, Amazonian Indians, Eskimos, Zulus, Cherokees, Aztecs, Scandinavians etc?

Kobojunkie:
As explained in my previous post to you, God scattered Israel to all the nations of the earth —every tribe, every tongue, and every Nation of the earth —and promised He would gather them all back to Himself at His appointed time. Jesus is the good shepherd whom God sent to gather them, and so He sent His disciples out as fishers of men to go into All the Nations — every tribe, every language, and every Nation — to fish out from amongst the Gentiles and give His teachings to every one of Israel that was scattered by God.

IslamIsIdiotic:
Your interpretation may work for some other parts of Scripture (such as the copy paste ones you've been bandying around) but it makes absolutely no sense when applied to Matthew 28:19.

2. In order for your theory to be right, certain facts would have to be accepted which fall outside the boundaries of basic intelligence and common sense. For example, if the Scripture was only meant for the lost children of Israel and if these lost children are (according to you) scattered amongst ALL THE NATIONS, then who are the lost Israelites among the Yorubas, Efiks, Amazonian Indians, Eskimos, Zulus, Cherokees, Aztecs, Scandinavians etc?

1. I am not interpreting any of this as I am instead letting scripture speak for itself as it does as-is-written. The copy-&-paste as you can see is of passages from most of the major prophets clearly telling you exactly what Jesus Christ told you of who the agreement that He embodies is meant for. Jesus Christ and all the prophets, including Moses, couldn't all have been lying to you, could they?

2. I don't understand your question. Are you asking me how the disciples identify those who they are sent out to gather from every tribe, every tongue, and every nation i.e. all nations?

For your theory that ALL NATIONS means Israelites in all nations to work, there would have to be identified communities of lost Israelites living in every Nation on the face of the earth. So give me the historical and archaeological for the existence of communities of persons known as lost Israelites living in nations like the Yoruba Nation or the tiv Nation or the Igala Nation or the Junkun nation etc.

Kobojunkie:
1. I am not interpreting any of this as I am instead letting scripture speak for itself as it does as-is-written. The copy-&-paste as you can see is of passages from most of the major prophets clearly telling you exactly what Jesus Christ told you of who the agreement that He embodies is meant for. Jesus Christ and all the prophets, including Moses, couldn't all have been lying to you, could they?

2. I don't understand your question. Are you asking me how the disciples identify those who they are sent out to gather from every tribe, every tongue, and every nation i.e. all nations?

IslamIsIdiotic:
For your theory that ALL NATIONS means Israelites in all nations to work, there would have to be identified communities of lost Israelites living in every Nation on the face of the earth. So give me the historical and archaeological for the existence of communities of persons known as lost Israelites living in nations like the Yoruba Nation or the tiv Nation or the Igala Nation or the Junkun nation etc.

Oh, I am afraid you would need to ask God Himself — the one who said through His Prophets, and Jesus Christ, that He scattered His Israel to every tribe, every tongue, and every nation and would gather them all back at His appointed time — for the evidence of which you seek.

Well, you've just talked yourself into a bind because the sheer stupidity of everything you said cannot be supported by either Christian or Secular history.

The meaning of ALL THE NATIONS in Matthew 28 :19 is clear both to those with a discernible IQ and those who don't have an agenda.

Kobojunkie:
Oh, I am afraid you would need to ask God Himself — the one who said through His Prophets, and Jesus Christ, that He scattered His Israel to every tribe, every tongue, and every nation and would gather them all back at His appointed time — for the evidence of which you seek.

IslamIsIdiotic:
1. Well, you've just talked yourself into a bind because the sheer stupidity of everything you said cannot be supported by either Christian or Secular history.
2. The meaning of ALL THE NATIONS in Matthew 28 :19 is clear both to those with a discernible IQ and those who don't have an agenda.

1. I have done no such thing! That you reject what is made clear, not only by Jesus Christ Himself but even by the prophets, has nothing to do with me or what I have said.
2. Like I said, you are free to reject God Himself since that is pretty much what Religion is all about.

I'm just going to leave this Scripture from Revelations 5:9, after which I won't waste anymore of my time on a perditissimi such as you have proven yourself to be:

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation

Kobojunkie:
1. I have done no such thing! That you reject what is made clear, not only by Jesus Christ Himself but even by the prophets, has nothing to do with me or what I have said.
2. Like I said, you are free to reject God Himself since that is pretty much what Religion is all about.

IslamIsIdiotic:
I'm just going to leave this Scripture from Revelations 5:9, after which I won't waste anymore of my time on a perditissimi such as you have proven yourself to be:

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation

Here's a tip in this New year, never quote a verse of context!

A. As the one who received the vision explained to you, beginning in verse 9 every one of those who are gathered from every tribe and every tongue and every nation will in turn be made by God into a KIngdom of Priests with which He, God, will rule the whole world with.

5 But one of the elders said to me, “Don’t cry! The Lion from the tribe of Judah has won the victory. He is David’s descendant. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
6 Then I saw a Lamb standing in the center near the throne with the four living beings around it. The elders were also around the Lamb. The Lamb looked as if it had been killed. It had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God that were sent into all the world.
7 The Lamb came and took the scroll from the right hand of the one sitting on the throne.
8 After the Lamb took the scroll, the four living beings and the 24 elders bowed down before the Lamb. Each one of them had a harp. Also, they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s holy people.
9 And they all sang a new song to the Lamb: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were killed, and with your blood sacrifice you bought people for God from every tribe, language, race of people, and nation.
10 You made them to be a kingdom and to be priests for our God. And they will rule on the earth.” - Revelations 5 vs 1 - 10

B. Now, what people did God in fact promise to build His Kingdom of priests with?

5 So now I tell you to obey my commands and keep my agreement. So if you do this, you will be my own special people. The whole world belongs to me, but I am choosing you to be my own special people.
6 You will be a special nation—a kingdom of priests.’ Moses, you must tell the Israelites what I have said.”
7 So Moses climbed down the mountain and called the elders of the people together. Moses told the elders everything the Lord had commanded him to tell them. - Exodus 19 vs 5 - 7

So, here you have it, God Himself, again, telling you that the people who He will gather back from every tribe, every tongue, and every nation — all Nations— are the descendants of Israel i.e. the Lost sheep of Israel whom He, God, cursed and scattered to all the four winds.

As it dey so, it's high time we have a third testament. Some doctrines changed to conform with the times and happenings of the present.
On a more serious notes, doctrines are just means with which many enforce their lifestyles on others, and the moment it does not go well with the target audience, adjustments are made so as not to lose followerships especially when it comes to new generation youths.

litigator:
I can’t help but wonder why the changes in church doctrines and dogmas if they are biblical?

The Bible hasn’t changed since I was young Sunday student and in primary 3. But I can’t count the numbers of church doctrines and dogmas that have changed over the years.

When these doctrines and dogmas were been proposed and propounded, we were meant to understand that they were biblical.

The propounders often quoted biblical passages to support their position and threatened hell fire in the absence of compliance.

Few years down the road, these doctrines and dogmas have either been modified or changed completely.

The devil’s box that was devilish and one thing that could send people to hell, no longer sends people to hell.

And this makes me wonder what happened?

Did the church management simply misrepresented facts using Bible passages as a back up?

Are these doctrines and dogmas actually biblical?

Are they just psychological conditioning tools and not biblical per se?

What do you think?

Even though I am not in support of the devil box thing, but the essence of some doctrine is to help reduce sin not because having it is a sin even though most of them thought so, as at then the church could control it by their doctrine but as technology increases and you can actually watch films with phone then they came to realise it can no longer be controlled of which they decide to use it as a means to preach the gospel since it can no longer be controlled. So change is constant and as technology changes some things has to unless they want to relocate to the Bush. There is a place in the bible that it was stated that if your left hand will make you commit sin cut it off. But when you cut it off and there is still another way sin comes in then the place in the bible that talks about applying wisdom comes in to play.

I've been following this thread and nothing you have said can be justified by Scripture.
The very fact that Paul was chosen by the Lord Himself to be an Apostle to the Gentiles is more than enough to discredit your opinion.

Paul calls himself “the apostle to the Gentiles” in Romans 11:13. It’s not as though Paul never preached to the Jews—on the contrary, his custom was to preach first in the synagogue when entering a new city (Acts 17:2). And it’s not as though the other apostles never preached to Gentiles (see Acts 10)


But in a real sense, Paul’s ministry among the Gentiles was unique. Paul’s mission was to proclaim the gospel to the Gentiles as shown in Romans 15:16:

“He chose me to be a servant of Christ Jesus for the Gentiles and to do the work of a priest in the service of his good news. God did this so that the Holy Spirit could make the Gentiles into a holy offering, pleasing to him”

No Israelite or Jew would EVER be referred to as a Gentile in Scripture. That term is always used to describe people who are non Israelites or non Jews.


So clearly your opinions are wrong and make no sense either doctrinally or factually.

Kobojunkie:
Here's a tip in this New year, never quote a verse of context!

A. As the one who received the vision explained to you, beginning in verse 9 every one of those who are gathered from every tribe and every tongue and every nation will in turn be made by God into a KIngdom of Priests with which He, God, will rule the whole world with.
B. Now, what people did God in fact promise to build His Kingdom of priests with?
So, here you have it, God Himself, again, telling you that the people who He will gather back from every tribe, every tongue, and every nation — all Nations— are the descendants of Israel i.e. the Lost sheep of Israel whom He, God, cursed and scattered to all the four winds.

AvailethNone:
1. I've been following this thread and nothing you have said can be justified by Scripture.

2. The very fact that Paul was chosen by the Lord Himself to be an Apostle to the Gentiles is more than enough to discredit your opinion.
Paul calls himself “the apostle to the Gentiles” in Romans 11:13. It’s not as though Paul never preached to the Jews—on the contrary, his custom was to preach first in the synagogue when entering a new city (Acts 17:2). And it’s not as though the other apostles never preached to Gentiles (see Acts 10) But in a real sense, Paul’s ministry among the Gentiles was unique. Paul’s mission was to proclaim the gospel to the Gentiles as shown in. No Israelite or Jew would EVER be referred to as a Gentile in Scripture. That term is always used to describe people who are non Israelites or non Jews. So clearly your opinions are wrong and make no sense either doctrinally or factually.

1. WOW... you mean all the scriptural references I posted, many of which speak for themselves, are not scriptural enough for you?

2. Jew is a term used to reference the subset of Israel born of either of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, or some of the Levi clans. Another term of equal importance is the term Samaritan. Samaritans were descendants of the tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim, sons of Joseph, hence Israelites as well. The others, also Israelites, had, at the time of Jesus Christ, been cursed and scattered by God to the four winds meaning they were living and breeding among the Gentiles hence they were, and still are considered Gentiles by their Jewish brethren. Now then we come to those who were referred to by Jesus Christ in His gospel as dogs. The dogs are non-Israelites meaning they are not descendants of Jacob, and according to Jesus Christ, God's Law, they were excluded from God's plan and agreement. So when during the sermon on the mouth where Jesus Christ warned His followers not to give that which is holy to the dogs in Matthew 7 vs 6, Jesus Christ in fact meant that they were not to offer salvation by the Gospel to the non-Israelites. So in Matthew 15 vs 24, Jesus Christ was simply reaffirming what He had taught to His followers which is that agreement was made by God only with those who are lost of Israel, a fact that affirms the Word of God as given through His Law of Moses and the prophets. .

So, when Paul, a Jew, spoke of the Gentiles to which he was sent by Jesus Christ, he, Paul, was in fact speaking of the lost sheep of Israel — those of Israelite descent who are in the Gentile population — and not of the dogs —non-Israelite population of the Gentiles. To, however, assert instead that Paul meant the non-Israelites is to accuse Paul of being a liar for claiming that he was sent by the person of Jesus Christ, after all a servant can never be greater than the Master - John 13 vs 16 and John 15 vs 20

So, explain Acts 10: 1 to 9. In that Scripture, God gives a vision to a Roman Soldier and instructed him to send for Simon Peter to come and preach to him and his household. Why would God send one of the disciples to go and minister unto a Roman soldier?

Acts 10:1 to 9

[1] There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
[2] A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always.
[3] He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
[4] And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
[5] And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
[6] He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.
[7] And when the angel which spake unto Cornelius was departed, he called two of his household servants, and a devout soldier of them that waited on him continually;
[8] And when he had declared all these things unto them, he sent them to Joppa.

Kobojunkie:
1. WOW... you mean all the scriptural references I posted, many of which speak for themselves, are not scriptural enough for you?

2. Jew is a term used to reference the subset of Israel born of either of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, or some of the Levi clans. Another term of equal importance is the term Samaritan. Samaritans were descendants of the tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim, sons of Joseph, hence Israelites as well. The others, also Israelites, had, at the time of Jesus Christ, been cursed and scattered by God to the four winds meaning they were living and breeding among the Gentiles hence they were, and still are considered Gentiles by their Jewish brethren. Now then we come to those who were referred to by Jesus Christ in His gospel as dogs. The dogs are non-Israelites meaning they are not descendants of Jacob, and according to Jesus Christ, God's Law, they were excluded from God's plan and agreement. So when during the sermon on the mouth where Jesus Christ warned His followers not to give that which is holy to the dogs in Matthew 7 vs 6, Jesus Christ in fact meant that they were not to offer salvation by the Gospel to the non-Israelites. So in Matthew 15 vs 24, Jesus Christ was simply reaffirming what He had taught to His followers which is that agreement was made by God only with those who are lost of Israel, a fact that affirms the Word of God as given through His Law of Moses and the prophets. .

So, when Paul, a Jew, spoke of the Gentiles to which he was sent by Jesus Christ, he, Paul, was in fact speaking of the lost sheep of Israel — those of Israelite descent who are in the Gentile population — and not of the dogs —non-Israelite population of the Gentiles. To, however, assert instead that Paul meant the non-Israelites is to accuse Paul of being a liar for claiming that he was sent by the person of Jesus Christ, after all a servant can never be greater than the Master - John 13 vs 16 and John 15 vs 20

AvailethNone:
So, explain Acts 10: 1 to 9. In that Scripture, God gives a vision to a Roman Soldier and instructed him to send for Simon Peter to come and preach to him and his household. Why would God send one of the disciples to go and minister unto a Roman soldier?

The story contains several clues that explain the roots of the man Cornelius.

■ At that time, Peter, a Jew, harbored the idea that God cared only for the Jewish nation and not for the non-Jewish aspects of Israel that God had previously cursed and scattered among the Gentiles.
■ Cornelius was regarded as a just man — the only standard of righteousness at the time he could have been justified by was God's Old Law of Moses which, again, binds only those who are of the blood of Jacob.
■ Cornelius's charity to the poor was said to have been, by the angel, recognized by God — again the standard that his giving would have been accorded such recognization was the standard set by God in His Old Law, which, again, is binding to only those who are of the blood of Jacob - Ezekiel 18 vs 1 - 32 & Ezekiel 33 vs 9 - 20.
■ Recall, from the Gospels, that the Holy Spirit aka the Spirit of Truth is subject only to Jesus Christ. What this means is that the Spirit of Truth only reveals to the followers of Jesus Christ that which pertains to Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God — John 14 vs 25 - 27 & John 15 vs 26 - 27 & John 16 vs 4 - 15. As such since He, the Spirit of Truth was the guide who sent Peter to Cornelius, this means that Cornelius was definitely not a dog — a non-Israelite — but instead of Israelite roots since Peter gave that which is Holy to him, Cornelius. Jesus Christ, in Matthew 7 vs 6, instructed His followers not to give that which are Holy to the dogs, dogs being a reference for those who are not of the House of Israel - Matthew 15 vs 20 - 26.
■ Lastly, Cornelius became born-again after he was baptized by Peter— given that Jesus Christ was sent by the Father only to those who are of the blood of Jacob, Cornelius had to have been an Israelite for him to have been granted entry into the Kingdom of God.

Here's a roundabout way of thinking of this. If Cornelius had been a dog — a non-Israelite— then it would mean that the Spirit of Truth is a lie, Jesus Christ who said that the Spirit was subject only to Him lied, and God, the Father who promised through the prophets that He would make an agreement with the House of Jacob probably was in on the lie as well.

@Kobojunkie

What is your take on this scriptures below....

Deuteronomy 29: 9 - 15 Carefully follow the terms of this covenant, so that you may prosper in everything you do. 10 All of you are standing today in the presence of the Lord your God—your leaders and chief men, your elders and officials, and all the other men of Israel, 11 together with your children and your wives, and the foreigners living in your camps who chop your wood and carry your water. 12 You are standing here in order to enter into a covenant with the Lord your God, a covenant the Lord is making with you this day and sealing with an oath, 13 to confirm you this day as his people, that he may be your God as he promised you and as he swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 14 I am making this covenant, with its oath, not only with you 15 who are standing here with us today in the presence of the Lord our God but also with those who are not here today.



John 1: 6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.


John 1:29.....The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Acts 9: 10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”“Yes, Lord,” he answered.11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”

15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”


Not everything is black and white, we do have grey areas haba! You don't have to go extremes to explain this haba!