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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? (2315 Views)
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Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 3:38pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
achorladey:■ Clearly, the first there that there is taken from the Constitution of the Nation of Israel which God gave to the people of Israel in the Land of Canaan meaning that the foreigners living in the land will benefit from some of what offer — the dogs will eat from that which falls from the master's table. If you to the next chapter of Deuteronomy 30 beginning from verse 1, you will where God address specifically those of the stock of Israel, indicating that the promises in fact belong only to them. ![]() ■ Well, that is taken from the same Gospel where Jesus Christ also indicated that the world He came to save is that which comprises only of the Lost sheep of Israel, the sinners of the world — Sin is defined by God's Law. God never gave any other nation His Law so the other nations were not sinners against God. The only segment of the world that was under God's Law at the time was Israel and so they were the sinners of the world at that time whose sin Jesus Christ came to take away, just as He Himself said. ![]() ■ Here's what Jesus Christ Himself told you in His Gospel to you. ![]() 16 “Listen! I am sending you, and you will be like sheep among wolves. So be smart like snakes. But also be like doves and don’t hurt anyone.So, nothing new. ![]() ■ Actually, in God, everything seems pretty much black and white. ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by BornKiller: 4:08pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Of all the blunders and failures of logic I have ever seen in Biblical interpretation, yours is as tragic as it is painfully bereft of intelligence. No wonder scholarship is dead in Nigeria if this is what it means to be a scholar. Of course if you want to prove you are right, produce the Biblical evidence that Cornelius who is explicitly referred to as an Italian in Acts 10, was of Jewish or Israelite ancestry. To show how dimwitted your view is, all you had to do, was read down to Acts 10:45 where it is made even more explicit that Cornelius was a Gentile because the Jewish people who went with Peter to meet with Cornelius were astonished because the Gift of the Holy Ghost was poured on a Gentile. Here Cornelius is explicitly referred to as a Gentile. If he had been a Jew, there would have been no astonishment on the part of the other Jews who witnessed the outpouring of the Spirit on Cornelius. Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. So let us see your confused answer to Acts 10:45 Kobojunkie: 1 Like |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 4:11pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
BornKiller:I already more than addressed your confusion in a previous comment. ![]() Jew is a term used to reference the subset of Israel born of either of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, or some of the Levi clans. Another term of equal importance is the term Samaritan. Samaritans were descendants of the tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim, sons of Joseph, hence Israelites as well. The others, also Israelites, had, at the time of Jesus Christ, been cursed and scattered by God to the four winds meaning they were living and breeding among the Gentiles hence they were, and still are considered Gentiles by their Jewish brethren. Now then we come to those who were referred to by Jesus Christ in His gospel as dogs. The dogs are non-Israelites meaning they are not descendants of Jacob, and according to Jesus Christ, God's Law, they were excluded from God's plan and agreement. So when during the sermon on the mouth where Jesus Christ warned His followers not to give that which is holy to the dogs in Matthew 7 vs 6, Jesus Christ in fact meant that they were not to offer salvation by the Gospel to the non-Israelites. So in Matthew 15 vs 24, Jesus Christ was simply reaffirming what He had taught to His followers which is that agreement was made by God only with those who are lost of Israel, a fact that affirms the Word of God as given through His Law of Moses and the prophets. . ![]() Cornelius was not a Jew but he was an Israelite who also happened to be a gentile. ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 4:17pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: This is what I need..... 1. meaning that the foreigners living in the land will benefit from some of what offer — the dogs will eat from that which falls from the master's table. 2. God never gave any other nation His Law so the other nations were not sinners against God. Regarding the bold consider this.......... The word of the Lord came to Jonah son of Amittai: “Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me.” This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” Actually, in God, everything [b]seems pretty much black and white.[/b] Had everything be in black and white King David won't survive adultery and murder the penalty should be based on the ten commandments. Black and white it is? Correct? ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Here is what Jesus Christ told one of his disciples 15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” Atleast you can see the distinction there. Or Jesus is not knowledgeable enough to know what he meant by gentile and people of Israel? ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 4:25pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
achorladey:Try making your questions more explicit cause it is hard trying to pick your brain from just the above. 1. Nineveh was a city in the Land of Canaan, was it not? And that is the same land of Canaan that God gave to the Israelites, yes? ![]() 2. God, in His Covenant, promised to fight the enemies of Israel on behalf of Israel, did He not? ![]() 3. God didn't punish the others who repented either, so why should David's case have been any different? ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 4:36pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Nineveh was a city in the Land of Canaan, was it not? And that is the same land of Canaan that God gave to the Israelites, yes? 1. Did God give NINEVEH his laws or made covenant with them? 2. God, in His Covenant, promised to fight the enemies of Israel on behalf of Israel, did He not? How do they become the enemies of Israel? God didn't punish the others who repented either, so why should David's case have been any different Now you talk about repentance ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Here is what Jesus Christ told one of his disciples 15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” Atleast you can see the distinction there. Or Jesus is not knowledgeable enough to know what he meant by gentile and people of Israel long after his resurrection? |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 4:45pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
achorladey:1. God gave the Land of Canaan to the Israelites meaning all peoples — foreigners in the land — were under the Constitution that was given to Israel. In 1 Kings 19 vs 15 - 18, for example, God sent Elijah to anoint a King over Aram. Even the Moabites were under Israeli rule at one point until they broke away. 2 King 3 vs 1 - 5 ![]() 2. You would have to read the Law and the stories for yourself to understand how each became enemies of Israel. ![]() 3. Now, I talk about repentance. David wasn't the only king who committed adultery in the land. God Himself dealt with the Kings as He saw fit. So, if penitence is not good enough for you as God stated in scripture, then I suggest you take it up with God. ![]() 4. And I already showed you what Jesus Christ Himself said in Matthew 10 of such appearances to be made by all of His followers. ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 4:47pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Cornelius was not a Jew but he was an Israelite who also happened to be a gentile Case closed. Differentiate the words using your own definition above....... Jew is a term used to reference the subset of Israel born of either of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, or some of the Levi clans. Another term of equal importance is the term Samaritan. Samaritans were descendants of the tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim, sons of Joseph, hence Israelites as well. The others, also Israelites, had, at the time of Jesus Christ, been cursed and scattered by God to the four winds meaning they were living and breeding among the Gentiles hence they were, and still are considered Gentiles by their Jewish brethren. Now then we come to those who were referred to by Jesus Christ in His gospel as dogs. The dogs are non-Israelites meaning they are not descendants of Jacob, and according to Jesus Christ, God's Law, they were excluded from God's plan and agreement. See your use of words here..... been cursed and scattered by God to the four winds meaning they were living and breeding among the Gentiles hence they were, and still are considered Gentiles by their Jewish brethren The question becomes Are the GENTILES aka the DOGS aka NON - ISRAELITES? Yes/No? |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by BornKiller: 4:47pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kindly explain what these two scripture passages mean: Romans 10.12 This includes everyone, because there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles; God is the same Lord of all and richly blesses all who call to him. Colossians 3.11 As a result, there is no longer any distinction between Gentiles and Jews, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarians, savages, slaves, and free, but Christ is all, Christ is in all. God was really speaking the truth when He said that He will use foolishness to confound those who are wise in their own eyes! ![]() ![]() ![]() Kobojunkie: 1 Like |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 4:56pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: I have given you clues but going by the way you love to posit yourself here you won't see it or readily admit. Not everything is black and white, we do have grey areas haba! You don't have to go extremes to explain this haba! So, if penitence is not good enough for you as God stated in scripture, then I suggest you take it up with God. When someone ask is everyone equal under the law? The standard response is YES but when standing before a judge to plead your case and the judge decides to bring the circumstances or grey areas into play regarding the case brought before the judge the judgement varies and it will look as everyone is not equal under the law. God gave the Land of Canaan to the Israelites meaning all peoples — foreigners in the land — were under the Constitution that was given to Israel Sweet, what I need is the word foreigners. Simple ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 4:56pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
BornKiller:I see you are not even paying attention at all. Again, I already more than addressed your confusion in a previous comment. ![]() ■ Jew is a term used to reference the subset of Israel born of either of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, or some of the Levi clans. ■ Another term of equal importance is the term Samaritan. Samaritans were descendants of the tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim, sons of Joseph, hence Israelites as well. ■ The others, also Israelites — those from the other 6 tribes of Israel —, had, at the time of Jesus Christ, been cursed and scattered by God to the four winds meaning they were living and breeding among the Gentiles hence they were, and still are considered Gentiles by their Jewish brethren. ■ Now then we come to those who were referred to by Jesus Christ in His gospel as dogs. The dogs are non-Israelites meaning they are not descendants of Jacob, and according to Jesus Christ, God's Law, they were excluded from God's plan and agreement. ■ So during the sermon on the mount when Jesus Christ warned His followers not to give that which is holy to the dogs in Matthew 7 vs 6, Jesus Christ in fact meant that they were not to offer salvation by the Gospel to the non-Israelites. So in Matthew 15 vs 24, Jesus Christ was simply reaffirming what He had taught to His followers which is that agreement was made by God only with those who are lost of Israel, a fact that affirms the Word of God as given through His Law of Moses and the prophets. . ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 4:59pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
BornKiller: I only hope you won't get this his usual response regarding Paul's words sometimes ![]() ![]() 1 Like |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 5:01pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
achorladey:1. I suggest you clearly express in clear text your claimed clues instead to help remove all ambiguity here. ![]() 2. Again, with God, you either confirm to His Law or you are a sinner. I would say that is pretty much black and white for anyone to reason with. ![]() 3. As the examples with the Moabites and the Aramaic — all of them foreigners in the Land of Canaan which was given by God to Israel—, everyone is not equal under God's Law. ![]() 4. OK! ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by BornKiller: 5:04pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
The guy is a first class dullard and he has been so successful in making a fool of himself that he thinks he can apply his formula to everyone else. achorladey: 1 Like |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 5:05pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: I want to see your black and white now? Did God made covenant or give his laws to the foreigners as well? |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by HezAdeagbo(m): 5:06pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Biblical truth is eternal. However, men in their wisdom have tried to adulterate it, howbeit to their fall. If you want to listen to sound teachings and doctrine of Christ, please subscribe and watch out for upcoming videos via this link; https://youtube.com/@akinwandephilipokikijesu |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 5:06pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
achorladey:Do you understand what a Constitutional Law is ? ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by BornKiller: 5:08pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Who is God referring to here? Acts 15.17 And so all the rest of the human race will come to me, all the Gentiles whom I have called to be my own. When God says that all the rest of the human race will come to Him, who is He referring to? Kobojunkie: |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 5:14pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
BornKiller:You also shouldn't ignore the second part of that statement which indicate that only those He calls are expected to come to Him and who are they called from every tribe, every tongue, and every nation, back to God? The lost sheep of Israel whom God Himself cursed and scattered to all the four winds of the earth - Deuteronomy 30 vs 1 - 16 & Isaiah 66 vs 18 - 22 & Revelations 5 vs 9 - 10 & Exodus 19 vs 6. ![]() Not everyone is called... ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 5:16pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Listen to yourself well well ■ The others, also Israelites — those from the other 6 tribes of Israel —, had, at the time of Jesus Christ, been cursed and scattered by God to the four winds meaning they were living and breeding among the Gentiles hence they were, and still are considered Gentiles by their Jewish brethren. ■ Now then we come to those who were referred to by Jesus Christ in His gospel as dogs. The dogs are non-Israelites meaning they are not descendants of Jacob, and according to Jesus Christ, God's Law, they were excluded from God's plan and agreement. From your explanation above we have 1. Gentiles aka Israelites who had completely mixed up with the people of other nations aka (the real GENTILES) 2. Gentiles aka the people of other nations not Israelites 3. The dogs aka not descendants of Jacobs aka people of other nations not descendants of Jacob aka foreigners ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() So when Jesus was passing the information in Acts to Ananias about Saul But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” The gentiles here is referring to who? |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 5:17pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: You returned with a question. I wanted to see black and white? |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 5:21pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
achorladey:Is one who breaks any of God's laws not regarded as a sinner of the Law? Is this fact of the Law not black and white enough or what? ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 5:26pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.” Does this promise made to Abraham include the dogs aka gentiles aka non Israelites aka not descendants of Jacob ![]() ![]() Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. 26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. I revert back to this scriptures one more time...... Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God Keep in your diary NOT OF NATURAL DESCENT OR DESCENDANTS as it were. |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 5:27pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
achorladey:Here again is what Jesus Christ told you in Matthew 10 16 “Listen! I am sending you, and you will be like sheep among wolves. So be smart like snakes. But also be like doves and don’t hurt anyone.Surely, you do not believe that Jesus Christ meant that you will only be brought before Kings and Governors of Israelite descent, right? And only the Israelite subjects will hear about Jesus Christ? ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 5:31pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: See the below again.... I revert back to this scriptures one more time...... Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God Keep in your diary NOT OF NATURAL DESCENT OR DESCENDANTS as it were. |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 5:32pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Don't colour my question? I want to see your black and white now? Did God made covenant or give his laws to the foreigners as well? |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 5:34pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Paul was brought before who? ![]() ![]() You are beginning to entangle yourself in the questions you are asking now ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 5:39pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
achorladey:1. Take the case of the Canaanite woman whose daughter was healed by Jesus Christ in Matthew 15 vs 21 - 28, though she was excluded from the agreement that was Jesus Christ, she benefitted from it, did she not? ![]() 2. I am not sure what you want me to do with this passage here. ![]() 3. Again, I am not sure what you wish for me to do with this here. ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 5:42pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
achorladey:As I explained to you earlier... the black and white is not mine to make but God's. And His Law makes it so for us. ![]() Kobojunkie: |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by Kobojunkie: 5:45pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
achorladey:I am afraid I am not a mind reader. If you have a question regarding the statements you keep reposting please clearly express them to remove all ambiguity. ![]() |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 5:49pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: At least you admit your limitations. That's enough for me. Isaiah 55: 8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. |
Re: If Church Doctrines And Dogmas Are Biblical, Why Do They Change? by achorladey: 5:51pm On Jan 03, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Those scriptures remain in the realms of your Jews Gentiles and dogs saga. |
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