Kobojunkiee:
1. You claim the strangers were angels so where in the passage of Genesis 18 is it stated that these angels of yours refused to eat, and they did so because spirits don't eat or drink?

2. Your challenge is nonsensical. You are the one who claims spirits do not eat or drink so you should be the one here proving your statement by way of a reference to a passage that in fact provides backing to what you claim. .

qwertyboss:
■ You just lack knowledge of the scriptures.
■ You have been twisting and bending my questions back to me since because you couldn't make any reasonable point.
■ I rest my case because no one can argue with a decapit

Sand2022:
■ Fair question. Let's consider the timing for the great crowd. They are shown AFTER the Great Tribulation. If this GT refers to final consummation (which JW agree), it then means that John is still seeing this same 144000, but this time AFTER the Great Tribulation while verses 4-8 see the same group before the Great Tribulation.
■ Your comment however, clearly shows the unlikelihood of the JWs understanding. Because as the great crowd is not sealed, according to JWs, then they will be harmed. That's why that understanding has an issue. If you did understand my position, you will know that I was not saying that only a literal 144000 will be saved.

qwertyboss:

Do you know what is seal of God on their foreheads?
It's the prayer mark on those who prostrate...
In essence Muslims.
Your research is leading you somewhere.
Kudos

MightySparrow:



They are talking of christian heaven, Muslim dey put mouth.

qwertyboss:
Wahala
So the heavens many? Am not arguing with anyone... You have your religion and I have my religion... All the best, I wish you well in yours hope you are wishing me well too ... Na me and you here I dey talk o No be one mumu somewhere wey no understand religion and do anyhow there they claim religion... I live in peace

Kobojunkie:
You didn't even realize by now that Allah is not the God of Israel and Mohammed's heaven is not the same Kingdom of God that Jesus Christ offered only to His followers, the Lost sheep of Israel?

No wonder you were spewing nonsense about spirits not being able to eat or drink.

qwertyboss:
I thought you are sane

Aemmyjah:
■ The 144,000 will go to heaven They are not literal Jews and Jehovah had already rejected the Jews who rejected the Jesus and killed him but theses ones will form a 'spiritual Israel'. They will go to heaven
■ Those who go to heaven have a responsibility- ruling with Jesus Christ as kings and priests over the Earth. They'll form a kind of cabinet.
■ Every cabinet has a leader and the leader here is Jesus Every cabinet has a source of authority, here, it is Jehovah God. Every cabinet has a seat of power,here,it is in heaven. Every cabinet members are few in relation to the subjects. Here, we have 144000 Spirit anointed christians picked from mankind and ruling over a great crowd, an unspecified number of people who have the hope of living Forever in a Paradise earth

Kobojunkie:
1. This is a lie as it is clearly stated by John that his 144,000 are all Israelites.

2. Again, this is wrong! Instead, the 144,000 along with the multitudes in white robes are those who will make up God's Nation of Priests and Kings over the earth - Exodus 19 vs 6. The promise was made by God when He conscripted Israel — God's plan for Israel has never been dependent on Israel obeying Him or not and so your assertion that the Jews did not believe in Jesus Christ means absolutely nothing.

3. Unfortunately for you, the 144,000 were selected and sealed by God and sent out from His Jerusalem almost 2000 years ago, so they are all of them in their graves at this point in time — they were the first fruits of the Lamb, recall the parable of the gardener and the olive tree. There were no such cabinets, leaders, and leaders as that idea is instead born of your particular cult. All that is instead bullsheet from your religion and not of scripture.

Aemmyjah:
■ Ok As if the revelation was not series of events John received that will happen in 'the Lord's day'
■ Na you go de shout say heaven na your home
■ You are free to believe anything you want to believe

Kobojunkie:
1. John instead wrote of things that had happened, where to take place during his time, and also others to come in the future.

2. I don't need to shout it since Jesus Christ is the one who taught His followers that He would come back to take them to His father's place where He made a home for them. I understand you don't believe in Jesus Christ nor take Him at His Word but try to pay attention at least.

3. Scripture is at least the standard for all who claim to be of God to cling to and clearly Scripture is against your claims. I simply pointed out that fact.

Sand2022:


If you're saying that the 144000 are Israelites, and that these Israelites are the marked ones sent out to gather their brothers, Israelites. Hmm.

Verse 18 says:

18For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 19 “I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who escape to the nations—to Tarʹshish, Pul, and Lud, those who draw the bow, to Tuʹbal and Jaʹvan, and to the faraway islands—who have not heard a report about me or seen my glory; and they will proclaim my glory among the nations.

From that verse, it is clear that those who get the message are people of the nations, not Jews. Am I missing something?

Secondly, remember that those exempted from the "hurt" of Rev 9:4 are those having the mark only. Meaning that others get hurt. Our interpretation should therefore encompass all through christians as God can't smite His own faithful people right?

From your understanding those whom the message is declared to as in verse 19, will be hurt.

Aemmyjah:
1. Mention one thing John wrote in his book of revelation that had happened and what was to take place during his time. I am waiting
2. See how you are contradicting yourself. You said they were to be Jews. Now you are saying another thing entirely. Confused atheist
3. What did John wrote in his book that were to take place during his time?

Kobojunkie:
1. The churches mentioned by John as well as some of the 144,000 who were to eventually be sent out from Jerusalem by God already existed at the time of the writing.

2. Am I to take it that you don't understand the correct application of the term contradicting? I didn't say anything different from what I stated before so I am not certain why you feel throwing around the term changes the facts as taught in Scripture. And yes, all those who are in the Kingdom of God — all born-agains are also all born of the blood of Jacob/Israel. Jesus Christ told you that over 2000 years ago.

3. John supposedly wrote his book around the same time when God's Judgement began in the land of Judah, almost 2000 years ago, when God cursed and scattered the remnants of Israel, the Jews all over the world like the others before them.

Sand2022:

Jehovah's witnesses think the group literally are those going to heaven. They feel that the number started to be gathered from first century and would continue to the end of this world.

Aemmyjah:
■Scriptures pls about your claims of the 144000. Besides, Jerusalem was already destroyed. It was no longer God's city. This one does not know anything

2. Are they literal jews or not? Was Cornelius, Timothy, israelites. The gentiles that Paul preached to and became disciples were also born again and they were not jews. Jesus'himself foretold these

3. It was written and circa 98-100CE in the island of Patmos and that is 28 years after Jerusalem had been destroyed.
■He was writing to the CHRISTIANS and his visions affect us especially as we are in the Lord's day and seeing much of the fulfillment of the Revelation. U wey de read back of Bible

Kobojunkie:
1. In Revelations 7 vs 1 - 6, John wrote of God staying the turbulence to be visited on the earth and sea until after the 144,000 had been sealed. That destruction of Jerusalem came after, not before, they were sealed.

2. There is only one way for a person to be an Israelite and that is by having the blood of Jacob coursing through his or her veins. Those of you who claim some spiritual jew are simply filled with spiritual bullsheet you need to discard before you claim you can be of Jesus Christ.

As for those you mentioned, the stories clearly tell you Cornelius, and Timothy were Israelites. The gentiles that Paul preached to were certainly not dogs — nonIsraelites — this since Jesus Christ warned His followers never to give that which is Holy — God's offer of Salvation to the nonIsraelites — dogs— in Matthew 7 vs 6, and He is Matthew 10 vs 1 - 5 - 8 & Matthew 15 vs 22 - 24 reaffirmed that the Gospel belonged only to the house of Jacob — those who have the blood of Jacob coursing through their veins.

3. Wow... I hope you don't actually think the destruction, cursing, and scattering of Jerusalem happened over night. What is "Lord's day"? Is that like some sort of cult thing that only a certain group knows about?

Aemmyjah:
■ You mentioned turbulence to come upon the EARTH and the Sea but you limited that revelation only to an event that had already happened over 20 years ago? My dear, you don't know anything.
■The first group of the 144000 was the 120 that received the holy spirit in the day of Pentecost...
■ Besides, Jesus Christ did not begin ruling after he ascended to heaven as he stood by his father waiting for the day his enemies will be destroyed. John received other revelation talking about Jesus rulership that will occur in the future. You better go back to bed
■ Those non jewish Christians that received the holy spirit and born again in the first century with the Hope of going to heaven were just deceiving themselves right?
■ What did Jesus Christ say about the non Jews who will put faith in him and the fleshly Jews who will reject him. You DELIBERATELY ignore Matthew 8:10-12. Go and read it
■ Go and study English cos I do read your comments and sometimes they are very smart and others are just stupid. Day does not always mean a 24 hour period. T[b]he Lord's day describe events that happens during Jesus Christ reign.[/b] For example, I may say that 'Life was better during Lord Lugards day',. 'Women wore no undies during shakespeare day', 'During, my grandfather day, life used to be peaceful', 'Tomorrow starts the day of harvest'
So dear, day could not always mean a 24 hour period but an extensive period of time which could take days, weeks, years, centuries, etc... That is one problem that creationist and evolutionist have when they say that God created the universe in 6, 24 hours day.

qwertyboss:

Wahala
So the heavens many?
Am not arguing with anyone...
You have your religion and I have my religion...
All the best, I wish you well in yours hope you are wishing me well too ...
Na me and you here I dey talk o
No be one mumu somewhere wey no understand religion and do anyhow there they claim religion...
I live in peace

MaxInDHouse:

Number already complete, newly chosen ones now serves as replacements for those who lost the privilege!

Kobojunkie:
1. I am afraid you are mistaken. The turbulence that was meant to take place after the 144,000 were sealed by God went on for a period of over 1 century if my history serves me right. So, I am not the one who limited anything here, instead, that would be you by your assumptions.

2. There is no such thing as the first group of the 144,000. God said He would mark His special people and send them out from Jerusalem into the world. That is what God said He would do in Isaiah 66 vs 18 - 23 and that is what happened.

3. I am not sure what you are talking about at all. Jesus Christ is meant to rule over the world beginning at the time of the resurrection when He will return and raise the 144,000 including the multitudes who will all then gather back to Jerusalem where His government is established.

4. Let me help you with understanding. It is impossible for anyone who does not have the blood of Jacob coursing through his/her veins to become born-again. That is literally what Jesus Christ explained to you right there in His Gospel. If you are not an Israelite, you cannot become born-again — you can fool yourself that you are by mouth but you will never enter into the Kingdom of God nor receive His Holy Spirit. That is the Gospel Truth of Jesus Christ right there. Of course, if you think you know better than Jesus Christ —, many of you assume you do anyways — go ahead and waste your life pretending that you are of Him when you aren't.

5. All these are ramblings to me at this point. Again, no non-Israelite can enter the Kingdom of God, unless, of course, you believe instead that Jesus Christ is a liar.

6. One of the very first things to happen at the beginning of the 1000 years — a 1000 years is like 1 day in the presence of God — when Jesus Christ is to reign over the world is that all the dead Israelites — the righteous dead, including the first Christians and subsequent — will be raised from the dead and gathered back to Jerusalem. We are talking of the resurrection of the 144,000 along with the multitudes described in Revelations 7. Are you seriously wanting me to believe that you are already living in that reality today?

Kobojunkie:
1. In Revelations 7 vs 1 - 6, John wrote of God staying the turbulence to be visited on the earth and sea until after the 144,000 had been sealed. That destruction of Jerusalem came after, not before, they were sealed.

2. There is only one way for a person to be an Israelite and that is by having the blood of Jacob coursing through his or her veins. Those of you who claim some spiritual jew are simply filled with spiritual bullsheet you need to discard before you claim you can be of Jesus Christ.

As for those you mentioned, the stories clearly tell you Cornelius, and Timothy were Israelites. The gentiles that Paul preached to were certainly not dogs — nonIsraelites — this since Jesus Christ warned His followers never to give that which is Holy — God's offer of Salvation to the nonIsraelites — dogs— in Matthew 7 vs 6, and He is Matthew 10 vs 1 - 5 - 8 & Matthew 15 vs 22 - 24 reaffirmed that the Gospel belonged only to the house of Jacob — those who have the blood of Jacob coursing through their veins.

3. Wow... I hope you don't actually think the destruction, cursing, and scattering of people of Judah, and Jerusalem happened overnight. Again, John wrote of things that had taken place, things that were taking place even at the time, and things to come.

By the way, the tribulation that took place at the time continued on to the next century or so.

4. What is "Lord's day"? Is that some sort of cult thing that only a certain group knows about?

Aemmyjah:



I just saw what you wrote about the Great tribulation
Jesus christ describe it that it will affect THE ENTIRE INHABITED EARTH and some of the signs are global wars, pestilences (or epidemics), food shortage, earthquakes,etc. These things did not happen in the first century


Young woman, go sleep
For me
I'm going preaching. My best activity.
Hopefully, I take up the full-time ministry
Come join me
You'll love it

Maynman:

Aemmyjah:


There was a war that happened in 1914. Can you compare that war with any other wars in the past? See person wey wan reference Bible

What about the pestilences (pandemics), can you recall the ones that happened in 1918?

The Bible did not mention earthquake. It says GREAT EARTHQUAKES

Have you not used your eyes to see that from the image you shared that there was no famine? Is 300CE part of the first century. The Bible says that there will be global food shortage, not necessarily famine

Maynman:

What’s the definition of famine?

Aemmyjah:


Matthew 24:7
 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be FOOD SHORTAGES and earthquakes in one place after another.

Maynman:


What’s is the definition of FAMINE?

Aemmyjah:


From the image, you are free to believe what you WANT to believe for your blind understanding

Sand2022:

The research I have done on this subject produced me with different understanding as to whom this group refers to. This post is not to mock any differing view, since the bible didn't explicitly provide the answer as to who this group is, one doesn't need to be dogmatic on this issue.

scholars are divided as to the identity of this group. Some say it literally refers to the Jews while others say it refers to all genuine christians. Deeper Life sees this group as referring to Israelites at the time of the end.

Jehovah's witnesses think the group literally are those going to heaven. They feel that the number started to be gathered from first century and would continue to the end of this world.

There is a good reason to see this 144000 as referring to all true christians at the time of the end.

First, the timing of the event.

Rev 7:3
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrise, having a seal of the living God; and he called with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea,
3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we shall have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.

This shows that the event was still future, it will happen before the final destruction of this world. This shows that the 144000 will be available on earth close to the end of this age. So the understanding by JWs that the counting starts from the first century is wrong.

2. Execution of those not marked.

This will help us put a meaning to whom this 144000 refers to. At Rev 9:4, we read:

"And it was said unto them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only such men as have not the seal of God on their foreheads."

Here shows that those to be spared are only those with the mark on their foreheads. This refers to the 144000 mentioned at Rev 7:3,4. This would mean that the 144000 are all true christians, because it would be unthinkable that only a literal 144000 would be spared from the wrath and the rest of the faithful christians punished.

My submission is that the 144000 evidently refers to all true christians during the period close to consummation of this age.