Efewestern:


Ogie is not Duke bro. Ogie is king. There's no way you want to twist this hard fact. Quote me anywhere. Ogie means KING.

All name that has Oba attached to it are traced to Bini. No other Edoid group bears any Oba title. They all make use of Ogie. So why should we believe that Oba is the rightful word for King instead of the well accepted Ogie?

Oba of Uvwie 😂

This is were you get it wrong

As a benin man I am telling you

Ogie means Duke

Are the benin not the originator of the word that was later corrupted to Ovie and the other related names by other non benin sub group


The right word is not even ogie for Duke it is called enogie. Ogie means royalty, enogie meaning a royal servant which is known as Duke

The other non benin sees ogie as Duke which is understanding because they are not the originator of the word the word originally is a benin word, the Oba doesn't appoint kings in territores he apoints subordinate which can be liking to as governor

Your explanation is wack just look like you're saying the president should be called a governor because we have 35 state bearing the title governor, then the president should also be called a governor


Is there any other political head in Nigeria that bears President


I showed you a screeshot from Edo north which is not benin but has the word oba as a name

Again the world governor and president do they sound similar so to your own analogy the world president is alien since its not related the word governor that has 35 state governor bearing it as title

The British monarchy
The head is called king
And the chiefs are called = dukes

Is that enough explanation maybe you're just pulling my legs who knows

UGBE634:
quote]Nowhere the Benin monarchy claim 36,it is 40 but then again some had very short reigns eg ezoti, Olua, Uwaifiokun, etc
So anywhere around 35 to 40 is in order as they will not be dying the same period or inform each other they want to die

If you were to ascribe an average of 25 years to those 35 kings, you would get more than 800 years

You're sounding like you went to carry out a research on the field, I just said 36 there I didn't claim that was the correct neither the bullishit fiqure you gave up there


Guy as far the Kinglist is concerned it can never be accurate so oga, just don't use that to draw any stupid conclusion

davidnazee:


Ogie may mean ruler not necessarily King. In all of Edo south no ruler goes by the title Ogie, it's Enogie and their powers/functions are limited to being Dukes.
Outside of Edo south like Delta Ogie may mean King but in Edo south it has a different meaning and function. Oba is king here and Ogie/Enogie are dukes.

I believe the Enogies in Edo North are enthroned by the Oba. Also most of these territories are still very much under the control of the Obaship so no possible way an Ogie title can stand. But outside these zones, there exist independent sub-Edoid group who use Og(v)ie title and it would be a great dishonesty to say the title doesn't exist or it means different thing other than King.

Aside Og(v)ie, most Ovies have their own appellations eg. Orosuen of Okere, Orodje of Okpe etc. But Ogie is still the key word for king in all Edoid languages.

Thebadpolitican:



This is were you get it wrong

As a benin man I am telling you

Ogie means Duke

Are the benin not the originator of the word that was later corrupted to Ovie and the other related names by other non benin sub group


The right word is not even ogie for Duke it is called enogie. Ogie means royalty, enogie meaning a royal servant which is known as Duke

The other non benin sees ogie as Duke which is understanding because they are not the originator of the word the word originally is a benin word, the Oba doesn't appoint kings in territores he apoints subordinate which can be liking to as governor

Your explanation is wack just look like you're saying the president should be called a governor because we have 35 state bearing the title governor, then the president should also be called a governor


Is there any other political head in Nigeria that bears President


I showed you a screeshot from Edo north which is not benin but has the word oba as a name

Again the world governor and president do they sound similar so to your own analogy the world president is alien since its not related the word governor that has 35 state governor bearing it as title

The British monarchy
The head is called king
And the chiefs are called = dukes

Is that enough explanation maybe you're just pulling my legs who knows

Maybe we are saying two different thing.

I'm discussing the use of Ogie, you are talk about Enogie. Enogie has very limited usage compared to Ogie.

Enogies is not equal to Ogies.

Thebadpolitican:



This is were you get it wrong

As a benin man I am telling you

Ogie means Duke

Are the benin not the originator of the word that was later corrupted to Ovie and the other related names by other non benin sub group


The right word is not even ogie for Duke it is called enogie. Ogie means royalty, enogie meaning a royal servant which is known as Duke

The other non benin sees ogie as Duke which is understanding because they are not the originator of the word the word originally is a benin word, the Oba doesn't appoint kings in territores he apoints subordinate which can be liking to as governor

Your explanation is wack just look like you're saying the president should be called a governor because we have 35 state bearing the title governor, then the president should also be called a governor


Is there any other political head in Nigeria that bears President


I showed you a screeshot from Edo north which is not benin but has the word oba as a name

Again the world governor and president do they sound similar so to your own analogy the world president is alien since its not related the word governor that has 35 state governor bearing it as title

The British monarchy
The head is called king
And the chiefs are called = dukes

Is that enough explanation maybe you're just pulling my legs who knows

you people seem to have a shallow explanation to these things
The word Ogie has existed before the Oba dynasty, who were they now subservient to, who were they now under

The word Ogie means king
Enogie -the king

It is Egie that means royalty

For example you can say Oba-mu-egie me meaning Oba has bequeathed royal to me, a chieftaincy title or so

AreaFada2:


One quick correction. Aro and Ero are not same o. They are two different titles in Benin. That Edohen means Odofin is a mere conjecture. Edohen, Oliha, Ero and Eholo are the oldest titles. As old as Ogiso. They are actually village rulers, but now grown to meet Benin. I have read many SW writers' papers and theses with these errors.
Funny that a very good paper published in SW traced Ijesha/Ilesha titles and their origins. It made it clear of their Benin origins. Yet Ife is nearby? Why then?

I don't know if you have both Aro and Ero as separate titles in Benin but in Yorubaland, there is only one Aro.
Odofin is found all over Yorubaland and is not from Benin just setting that straight... It it is not a conjecture, the Odofin title is Odofin in usen and Yorubaland is what you call Edohen. And Usen oral accounts supports this very clearly.
The paper may trace some titles to Benin I am not saying there are no titles in Yorubaland with Benin origin, but not the ones I listed, that's the point.

It is no surprise that many Benin title names actually have their etymologies in the Yoruba language. case in point the Asogbon (Esogban)
, Elukotun/Elukohi of the Ogbe Esasa, the Ariyo (Eriyo), Obajulu (Bazunu), the Asoron (Eson), Asama (Esama) so don't pretend as if influence didn't travel both ways.

But you see that OBA. lol that one is straight out of Yorubaland.

AreaFada2:

Ah! Mr Fifth columnist is here.

You just confirmed what we all already knew. These rulers began as housekeeper, priest, baron or speaker.
Is there any serious student of history who doesn't know these meanings? You talk as if Yoruba is some kind of Sumerian cuneiform or Egyptian hieroglyphic language.

You are still reeling out mythical figures that cannot be proven to have existed as evidence of Oba?

Oga you aren't saying anything. How am I a 5th columnist? lol Fifth columnist to what people Hhahaha.
You didn't even answer the question. Well, I will take it you don't speak Yoruba.

Take Sango as third king of Oyo for example, how reasonable is the timeline and the story? I have read it in many books and saw films on it. No logic at all.

In Benin, we had Oba-godo in Igodomigodo. as an Ogiso. Ogiso meant not god literally from the sky but one heavenly ordained. How could someone whose childhood, parents, family and house and quarter in Benin were known be directly from the sky? It was about divine ordination.

But you still parade mythical figures as evidence of real kingly Obas. Lol.

Obalufon, Sango, Obameri, etc are not mythical figures. AND EVEN IF THEY WERE, you are still missing the point.
The point is the existence of the terminology in the Yoruba lexicon for as far back as anyone can remember. I hope you will get it now, and if not... oh well.

So you had OGIE-ISO OBA-GODO. lol wonderful.
By the way, the earliest written accounts of Benin mentions no Obagodo. Even the earlier written accounts of Benin's history by a native Benin that mentions anything along those lines only mentions an IGUDU/IGODO not OBA-GODO

By the way, I am also familiar with Ifa corpus. I knew the story of Eji Ogbe (Oba Odu) in particular as a kid already.

Very nice, make sure you teach your Edo comrades so that they can also teach other Edo.

Europeans have various names for prime minister: Bundeskanzler, Kanzler, Taoiseach, First Minister, Prime Minister, etc. All don't literally mean Prime minister but became regarded as such because all are heads of government. But all have histories about their genesis and evolution. So king came to be known by various names. Even if not literally but all now mean or imply king in that dialect/culture.

How is a name for the same position in different languages the same as regional identifiers for OBAS in different Yoruba Kingdoms?
You are trying too hard and your examples are not 'exampling'. Oba in Atakpame Togo is the same as Oba in Ijebu Ode because they all speak the same language.

scholes0:


I don't know if you have both Aro and Ero as separate titles in Benin but in Yorubaland, there is only one Aro.
Odofin is found all over Yorubaland and is not from Benin just setting that straight... It it is not a conjecture, the Odofin title is Odofin in usen and Yorubaland is what you call Edohen. And Usen oral accounts supports this very clearly.
The paper may trace some titles to Benin I am not saying there are no titles in Yorubaland with Benin origin, but not the ones I listed, that's the point.

It is no surprise that many Benin title names actually have their etymologies in the Yoruba language. case in point the Asogbon (Esogban)
, Elukotun/Elukohi of the Ogbe Esasa, the Ariuo (Eriyo), Obajulu (Bazunu), the Asoron (Eson), Asama (Esama) so don't pretend as if influence didn't travel both ways.

But you see that OBA. lol that one is straight out of Yorubaland.

stop attributing titles you are not sure of their origin to yorubaland. Asoron to Eson is so laughable, how sure are you it is not the other way round. Edohen and Odofin does not look alike, the family will actually laugh at you for such theories you postulate here,

UGBE634:
stop attributing titles you are not sure of their origin to yorubaland. Asoron to Eson is so laughable, how sure are you it is not the other way round. Edohen and Odofin does not look alike, the family will actually laugh at you for such theories you postulate here,

It might not look very alike on the surface level, but if you know the rules of thumb of how Yoruba lexical articles mutate when they enter the Edo language, you will understand better. For example F in Yoruba many atimes changes to [H] in Edo. Words that begin with A in Yoruba often becomes [E] in Edo. Words that have a rhotic [R] in Yoruba, the R vanishes in Edo... Etc.

davidnazee:


Yoruba man, you can cry me a river

AreaFada2:

Yet, Europeans documented Oba in Benin title in a letter dated 1502, yet nothing about Oba in any Yoruba or "Yoruboid" area like Iwerre?

UGBE634. Just take your side of the divide and defend it bravely. I make no secret of my SW links but also clear about where I stand in the effort to straighten things that others wrote (basically wanting to dictate Benin history) when Britain denied us education. Even refusing us permission to build and fund our own schools.

The story is that Oba of Benin is from Ife. If the story is true, these various titles should have existed in Ife specifically, these guys shouldn't be allowed to give examples from other areas of yoruba land that was influenced by Benin for centuries.

If the argument is that Benin is an offshoot of Ife, then there have to be similarities in both Benin
and Ife traditional institutions, but there are none.

AreaFada2:

Okoro is a breathing and living name in Benin o. Not lost. It even means "prince" as in Oba's son. I explained it in a reply to your post, I believe like 2 years ago. I even cited Oba Erediauwa as a student at Government College Ibadan when his British teacher asked him to have his letters addressed to him as Okoro Solomon Akenzua instead of Prince Solomon Akenzua. The Oyinbo was ignored of course. I know minimum 12 families in Benin called Okoro as surname. Okoro originally meant boy.

Ok, regarding age, before 1480 when Oba Olua sent his son to become Ogiame, there was no high-ranking ruler in Iwerre. How can Oba use in Iwerre become more rooted than in Benin?

What was the rank or title of Awujale of Ijebu and Olowo of Owo, the major places in Yorubaland people migrated from to Iwerre? The problem remains that people sill think that only a large tribe can give culture to a smaller tribe as they are seen today. Yorubas were not one until just 200 years ago. Owo man could not communicate with Oyo man. So they had different names for kings. Only standardised Oyo Yoruba that most now speak brought "unity" of tongue. I have a dialect that is around 90% similar to Iwerre one. Even closer to Usen. So I am not one to be told about it.

The reason Benin influence in Eastern Yorubaland was so big is that Eastern Yorubas saw other Yorubas as totally different. So they readily accepted influential Benin by and large, of course waxing and wanning.

These things are not just "mere common sense" stuff but of scholarship.

Efe, I will not re-explain Oba meaning in Benin. I did many times before. Read through old posts if you want to know. To claim deeper root of Oba in Benin means you do not know Benin in any depth.

I can tell you of at least 20 places that didn't use Oba title 110 to 50 years ago but now use Oba praise

Benin language I heard growing up is different from now. Never mind how people who left Benin 600 to 700 years ago would have dropped some words and retained others. Some words in my dialect in Edo sound archaic or even unknown in Eastern Yorubaland today. Those in their 80s and 90s over there understand virtually every word. Meaning those words may still have been used when they were growing up but obsolete now. It doesn't mean they didn't exist centuries ago there. Difference is while theirs was influenced a lot by Oyo dialect over last 150 years, ours was not.

I write all these epistles because of silent people reading them and for posterity.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

UGBE634:
you people seem to have a shallow explanation to these things
The word Ogie has existed before the Oba dynasty, who were they now subservient to, who were they now under

The word Ogie means king
Enogie -the king

It is Egie that means royalty

For example you can say Oba-mu-egie me meaning Oba has bequeathed royal to me, a chieftaincy title or so

Bros, When a Benin person says Ijesu n'Ogie, what does it mean?

Does it mean Jesus is a smaller duke?

samuk:


The story is that Oba of Benin is from Ife. If the story is true, these various titles should have existed in Ife specifically, these guys shouldn't be allowed to give examples from other areas of yoruba land that was influenced by Benin for centuries.

If the argument is that Benin is an offshoot of Ife, then there have to be similarities in ghe traditional institutions, but there are none.

You, your own position is not even reconcilable with both your Benin brothers here and the Yorubas.
Your position should be thrown into the dustbin but your brothers will not tell you.

scholes0:


It might not look very alike on the surface level, but if you know the rules of thumb of how Yoruba lexical articles mutate when they enter the Edo language, you will understand better. For example F in Yoruba many atimes changes to [H] in Edo.

Bro that is not enough, they seem to be natives or so that is what our oral account state,none of them have origin from Yoruba land.

These four Oliha, Edohen, Eholor nire, Ero, these four are the first four Uzamas, Edion nene, that it was gotten externally is highly unlikely. It contradicts our tradition. When an Edo (H) word enters yoruba lexicon, I believe it would still be H to F too.

scholes0:


You, your own position is not even reconcilable with both your Benin brothers here and the Yorubas.
Your position should be thrown into the dustbin but your brothers will not tell you.

Scholars found nothing that connects Benin and Ife other than fairytales. This is the end of the matter as far as I am concerned.

Efewestern:


Ogie is not Duke bro. Ogie is king. There's no way you want to twist this hard fact. Quote me anywhere. Ogie means KING.

All name that has Oba attached to it are traced to Bini. No other Edoid group bears any Oba title. They all make use of Ogie. So why should we believe that Oba is the rightful word for King instead of the well accepted Ogie?

Oba of Uvwie 😂

This we already know.
Not only on the Yoruboid side, but also on the Benin side (But for some reason the truth is too hard to admit for many)

Is it not the same Itsekiris that praise the Olu with the Oriki/Akpuja: "Oba Omi ju Oba Oke"... The King of the waters is greater than the King on Land.
Those who know these things know.

Let me tell those guys that once you accept truth, I swear to god your mind will be at rest. You will feel 50 pounds lighter as if a heavy load has been lifted from your chest.

scholes0:


Bros, When a Benin person says Ijesu n'Ogie, what does it mean?

Does it mean Jesus is a smaller duke?

it Means Jesus the KING

UGBE634:
Bro that is not enough, they seem to be natives or so that is what our oral account state,none of them have origin from Yoruba land.

These four Oliha, Edohen, Eholor nire, Ero, these four are the first four Uzamas, Edion nene, that it was gotten externally is highly unlikely. It contradicts our tradition. When an Edo (H) word enters yoruba lexicon, I believe it would still be H to F too.

20 years from now future Edo will find it difficult to defend these four titles as being of Edo origin.

UGBE634:
Bro that is not enough, they seem to be natives or so that is what our oral account state,none of them have origin from Yoruba land.

These four Oliha, Edohen, Eholor nire, Ero, these four are the first four Uzamas, Edion nene, that it was gotten externally is highly unlikely. It contradicts our tradition. When an Edo (H) word enters yoruba lexicon, I believe it would still be H to F too.

The Uzama as traditional Edion in Igodomigodo existed.
Infact Edion have always been a feature of Edo society from the dawn of time. They are the oldese structured institutions, even before the Ogie-iso which were said to be non hereditary.

What we are exploring right now are the etymologies of the titles of the 4 pairs that are associated with the coming of Oranmiyan into what would later become Benin.

samuk:


20 years from now future Edo will find it difficult to defend these four titles as being of Edo origin.

It is not what is under contest, It is what I and my descendants will defend with our chest, I mean none claim origin outside, not that they will be beaten if they claim origin outside. The ones that claim origin outside, they've not beaten, so I don't know why anyone will claim them. They consider themselves natives to the core

samuk:


Oba is Benin in Origin. Even if you were to be right in a long stretch, it's still not enough evidence that the oba of Benin is yoruba.

Today more than half of yoruba monarchs share affinity with Islamic religion, some have even adopted Islamic names and titles, does this now mean that they were no longer yoruba in origin?

In the past Oba of Benin seek the best medicine men across the land, there was no place that was too far. Benin was heavily involved in Africa religious practices and renowned native doctors and practitioners of Africa religion were invited to Benin, sometimes to the palace. Any contribution from these various tribes, Ibo, Yoruba etc, doesn't change the Benin Origin of the Oba.

If you argue that the Oba of Benin is from Ife and his title is of yoruba origin, you have to show that Ife had monarchs in the 1500s.

Don't also forget that Easter yoruba was under the cultural influence of Benin for centuries and they copied the Benin style of monarchy and not the other way round.

Samuk, it would be improper for me to disclose private discussions with these personages in Eastern Yorubaland. How NL commentators believe that the could possibly know more than the custodians is baffling to me. It goes beyond what is bolded above. I have nothing to gain by putting one side above the other. If anything, I even have much easier access on SW side.

Now regarding argument over Ogie, Enogie, etc between Efewestern and others, the example of Ogiame of Itsekhiri is enough to settle it.
Iginuwa was sent as "Ogie Amen". That Ogie meaning is not different in origin to what other Edoid tribes have.

Ogie means Lord. As in one ruling over an area. In Benin view and purpose, it was not meant to be King in stature.

Of course, since the Ogie or Ovie is the ruler now in charge and with increased independence, exercising the power of a king, he came to be seen as a king. Was there any point in changing Ovie title to reflect his king status? In my view not at all!
But Efe remember that those Ovies did not start out as a king. Ogisos did not start out as outright kings even. They were senior elders among elders of Benin quarters. Each Quarter produced an elder who will become next leader when the previous dies.

Oliha, Edohen, Ero and Eholor ancestors were among the elders when their leader had a brilliant idea to make himself king. The other 4 chiefs/elders, after intense negotiations, agreed but on one condition. That they should be permanent chiefs with near equal power to the king too. They all agreed (swore at Erimwindu/shrine all Benin ancestors) that the king must ensure their sons inherit their titles and they must ensure the king's son or chosen heir inherits kingship. These elders laboured hard to wrestle control of Benin from Evian descendants and restore monarchy after Ogiso Owodo. They were fulfilling ancestral oath and also safeguarding their positions, since only an Ogiso direct blood descendant would be under oath to ensure the elders retain their positions perpetually.

The Elders list later expanded to 7 to include Ezomo, Oloton and the Crown Prince. So the long match to kingship began somewhere for every ancient king.

Whatever title any tribe uses to describe their king today is their choice. But we are looking at origins of names first. Nobody is disputing Ovie or Orodje meaning king to those people today.

samuk:


20 years from now future Edo will find it difficult to defend these four titles as being of Edo origin.

They are actually 8 (4 pairs of 2), not 4.

UGBE634:
it Means Jesus the KING

Thanks.

scholes0:


The Uzama as traditional Edion in Igodomigodo existed.
Infact Edion have always been a feature of Edo society from the dawn of time. They are the oldese structured institutions, even before the Ogie-iso which were said to be non hereditary.

What we are exploring right now are the etymologies of the titles of the 4 pairs that are associated with the coming of Oranmiyan into what would later become Benin.

Nor think am abeg, these four titles were the Uzamas themselves, Edion nene. It is not part of it at all. Aside Usen that seem strange, the Entire tradition of Benin from eastern flank to western frontiers see these four titles as natives

samuk:


20 years from now future Edo will find it difficult to defend these four titles as being of Edo origin.

You don't argue that kind of argument, there are some argument you will not argue, you will just be looking at them online

Efewestern:


Ooni, Awujale, Alake, Alafin, Olubadan, Oluwo, Olu, etc are not the yoruboid word for king, they are title of each sovereign rulers. I can't give a breakdown of these titles but I'm very sure they mean different thing.

The closest the Yorubas have to Oba is "Baale," which by the way is a low ranking title for a tiny community heads.

It is an established fact that Ogie is an Edoid word for King. Regardless of what some are trying to spin, Ogie means king and not Duke. Now, in Yoruboid, aside Oba, there is no other Yoruba word for King. Olu isn't king. Olu means Lord. Ooni , Alaffin are titles. Baale isn't also close. This leaves us with only OBA, unless you want to convince me that Yoruboid had no word for king.

Also, it makes no sense for Edoid to call King Ogie and Oba. Either one is foreign or the other just mean a different thing entirely.

Words written in Gold.

UGBE634:
Nor think am abeg, these four titles were the Uzamas themselves, Edion nene. It is not part of it at all. Aside Usen that seem strange, the Entire tradition of Benin from eastern flank to western frontiers see these four titles as natives

My 20 years was even too far, debate has already started. Opakhara . Ezor.

UGBE634:
you people seem to have a shallow explanation to these things
The word Ogie has existed before the Oba dynasty, who were they now subservient to, who were they now under

The word Ogie means king
Enogie -the king

It is Egie that means royalty

For example you can say Oba-mu-egie me meaning Oba has bequeathed royal to me, a chieftaincy title or so

Wrong the word ogie means royalty

Other non benin tribe call it king any benin who calls ogie king is not a benin msn

Egie = means a group of royalty

Enogie = the head of village or big community in benin, outside benin with royal installment by the Oba of benin


The title of the king of benin have always been oba, and nothing more

Stop talking like you have proved anything yet to make such conclusion

We know the words that Yoruba and Edo share from antiquity at the urheimat of Volta-Congo, and subsequently YEAI, no one is arguing those ones.
Words like:

Unu/Enu - Mouth
Akuko/Okhokho - Fowl
Oka - Grain/Millet/Corn
Omo - Child

No one argue those ones. People who are really into linguistics know which is which.

But you see the likes of our Oba (King), Ade/Ede (crown), Olori (Queen consort), Akete (Throne) and the likes......
Their origin in 'Yorubaland' is NEVER in doubt.

Thebadpolitican:



Wrong the word ogie means royalty

Other non benin tribe call it king any benin who calls ogie king is not a benin msn

Egie = means a group of royalty

Enogie = the head of village or big community in benin, outside benin with royal installment by the Oba of benin


The title of the king of benin have always been oba, and nothing more

Stop talking like you have proved anything yet to make such conclusion

Royalty is already a group of Royalty, there is nothing like a group of Royalty, Royalty as a word is limitless

you people seem to have a shallow explanation to these things
The word Ogie has existed before the Oba dynasty, who were they now subservient to, who were they now under

The word Ogie means king
Enogie -the king

It is Egie that means royalty

Who were they under before the Emergence of Oba in Benin

For example you can say Oba-mu-egie me meaning Oba has bequeathed royal to me, a chieftaincy title or so

Using Ogie in that contest Oba mu-ogie me would not make sense

AreaFada2:

Samuk, it would be improper for me to disclose private discussion with these personages in Eastern Yorubaland. How NL commentators believe the could possibly know more than the custodians is baffling to me. It goes beyond what is bolded above. I have nothing to gain by putting one side above the other. If anything, I even have much easier access on SW side.

Now regarding argument over Ogie, Enogie, etc between Efewestern and others, the example of Ogiame of Itsekhiri is enough to settle it.
Iginuwa was sent as "Ogie Amen". That Ogie meaning is not different in origin to what other Edoid tribes have.

Ogie means Lord. As in one ruling over an area. In Benin view and purpose, it was not meant to be King in stature.

Of course, since the Ogie or Ovie is the ruler now in charge and with increased independence, exercising the power of a king, he came to be seen as a king. Was there any point in changing Ovie title to reflect his king status? In my view not at all!
But Efe remember that those Ovies did not start out as a king. Ogisos did not start out as outright kings even. There were senior elders among elders of Benin quarters. Each Quarter produced an elder who will become next leader when the previous dies.

Oliha, Edohen, Ero and Eholor ancestors where among the elders when their head a brilliant idea to make himself king. The other 4 chiefs/elders, after intense negotiations, agreed but one one condition. That they should be permanent chiefs with near equal power to the king. They all agreed (swore at Erimwindu/shrine all Benin ancestors) that the king must ensure their sons inherit their titles and they must ensure the king's son or chosen heir inherits kingship. These elders laboured hard to wrestle control of Benin from Evian descendants and restore monarchy after Ogiso Owodo. They were fulfilling ancestral oath and also safeguarding their positions, since only a Ogiso direct blood descendant would be under oath to ensure the elders retain their position perpetually.

The Elders list later expanded to 7 to include Ezomo, Oloton and the Crown Prince. So the long match to kingship began somewhere for every ancient king.

Whatever title any tribe use to describe their king today is their choice. But we are looking at origins of names first. Nobody is disputing Ovie or Orodje meaning king to those people today.

Just to add, the Benin view the Oba as both the embodiment of divine spiritual being and a physical king. The Oba was seen as God in the physical, the spiritual leader, God on earth only second to Oghene-Osa. There is a saying in Edo that you cannot have two Oba at a time in Benin, hence ogie doesn't quite mean the same thing as Oba to ancient Benin people.

Your example of Ogia-Amen is spot on. People that are not very conversant with Benin may confuse Ogie for Oba.

Oba may mean king in yoruba land, but in Benin, Oba is more than a king. He embodies both the physical and spiritual.

The Ooni for example was the spiritual leader of yoruba while the Alaafin was the king. But the Oba of Benin is both.

Today the Sultan of Sokoto has replaced the Ooni as the spiritual leader of more than half yoruba oba and more than half yoruba population.

The oba of Benin remains both the king and spiritual leader of all Benin and all Benin Enigies. The Oba title is rooted in Benin traditions and antiquity.