davidnazee:


Another lesson for you:

To "gie" means to direct or lead the way. "Ogie" is the person that leads..
Ogieisoba; this means no ruler (Enogies, okaevbo) is above the king
Oba r'Ogie means King is ruler.

Case Closed!!!!! 🔐🔐

davidnazee:


Another lesson for you:

To "gie" means to direct or lead the way. "Ogie" is the person that leads..
Ogieisoba; this means no ruler (Enogies, okaevbo) is above the king
Oba r'Ogie means King is ruler.

Someone like you will say king and ruler means the same thing not knowing that ruler is descriptive while king is actually a title.
Same logic is behind Ogie and Oba

As for the system of governance before the Obas era not much is known, only that there was Ogisos who ruled all of Igodomigodo. If every part of Igodomigodo was independent like you suggest then each part would have had an Ogiso but from what we know there was only one Ogiso for all of Igodomigodo.
This will suggest that all other parts were not independent and were under the Ogiso.

All those Ogiesoba and Oba'r'Ogie should already tell you the comparison, dichotomy and strife that existed between them before one gave way for the other if you have a functioning brain.

That the Ogi-egor is older than the Oba's stool is not in contention at all. That's why he is also called Osanegor, go and Ask your elders.

Even the enogieship of Urhonigbe is far older than the Oba's dynasty too. It evolved from the Oldest man in the community, infact that is what is still in place.

The Ogisos were never emperors or conquerors, their powers could at best be described as soft or spiritual over other Edo communities and their Enogies. The "Iso" in their title suggest an heavenly mandate. It can at best be described as the sort of influence, the Okaigiesan has over other Esan communities and their Enogies. We were a republican people

Even the Enogie of Egor closest to it was independent.

On the other hand, the Ogie-amien have theirs too, which is "Ogie-amien, Aimien Oba"

Meaning na king them dae see o, dem nor dae see Oba.

Oba is alien, He is not from the land, the word "Oba" is foreign, the way it is pronounced suggest so absolutely

I've highlighted some keys points from UGBE634, AreaFada2 and samuk. Edeyoung, I saw your mention and I will try to answer below.

Benin society evolved over centuries, Areafada2 talked about the ancient elders or edions who came together to elect one amongst them, Benin went through a series of evolution to become the structured and organised society the Europeans met in 1400s.

There were no other well structured society in this part of Nigeria. Even the name Edo have it's own history.

During the evolution of Benin various group left Benin at various periods taking with them what was on ground at that time, this is why the Urhobo still referred to Benin as AKKA people because this was the name Benin was known by when they left. They also took with them the traditional institution that was on ground with them. So it's not surprising if they cannot relate with the later name Edo, because Edo came later, during the reign of Oba Ewuare 1.

The Urhobo have already left at this this time. It will seem that the Urhobo were not around when the name Omo no' ba ne' Edo involved.

I would add that the other Edoid tribes did not borrow the word Ogie which seem to appear as Ojie and Ovie in Esan and Urhobo respectively, still means king. And because they seem not to have experienced a centralized monarchy, , the duke system is certainly alien to them.

Ogisos did not start out as outright kings even. There were senior elders among elders of Benin quarters. Each Quarter produced an elder who will become next leader when the previous dies.

Oliha, Edohen, Ero and Eholor ancestors where among the elders when their head a brilliant idea to make himself king. The other 4 chiefs/elders, after intense negotiations, agreed but one one condition. That they should be permanent chiefs with near equal power to the king. They all agreed (swore at Erimwindu/shrine all Benin ancestors) that the king must ensure their sons inherit their titles and they must ensure the king's son or chosen heir inherits kingship. These elders laboured hard to wrestle control of Benin from Evian descendants and restore monarchy after Ogiso Owodo. They were fulfilling ancestral oath and also safeguarding their positions, since only a Ogiso direct blood descendant would be under oath to ensure the elders retain their position perpetually.

First of all, we all can agree that there was a major divergence amongst the Edoid group. Most groups left during the Ogiso Dynasty (Igodomigodo) and at that time, the current Empire wasn't formed.

Before their departure, The Ogie title was prominent and it didn't by anyway mean Chief/Duke as some would want us to believe. The Urhobos/Isokos who were the largest stock to leave had records of her relationship with Aka and even marked her territories as we can see in Abraka which means a border with Aka.

Before the establishment of the Oba dynasty by Oba Eweka I, most Edoid groups who migrated to various areas were already established, forging with their separate identity except for recent migrators like Iwere who later adopted a Bini Prince.

Wether or not Oba was used during the Ogiso era is still very debatable and inputs from those against and for the argument are valid. I've noted some valid corrections myself and I've also gained some insights.

Efewestern:
I've highlighted some keys points from UGBE634, AreaFada2 and samuk. Edeyoung, I saw your mention and I will try to answer below.







First of all, we all can agree that there was a major divergence amongst the Edoid group. Most groups left during the Ogiso Dynasty (Igodomigodo) and at that time, the current Empire wasn't formed.

Before their departure, The Ogie title was prominent and it didn't by anyway mean Chief/Duke as some would want us to believe. The Urhobos/Isokos who were the largest stock to leave had records of her relationship with Aka and even marked her territories as we can see in Abraka which means a border with Aka.

Before the establishment of the Oba dynasty by Oba Eweka I, most Edoid groups who migrated to various areas were already established, forging with their separate identity except for recent migrators like Iwere who later adopted a Bini Prince.

Wether or not Oba was used during the Ogiso era is still very debatable and inputs from those against and for the argument are valid. I've noted some valid corrections myself and I've also gained some insights.

There was never an ogiso dynasty oga

Ogiso means sky rulers except you choose to believe in myth

The benin started talking of sky rulers when the Europeans introduced their religion of Christianity to the edo
Haba make una dey use una head decipher myth for truth

It was always been oba and enogie there was never an ogiso you are not well read on benin ancient document that was written by the Europeans

The benin tradition believe on recarnation and they believe all things lived on earth they believe the God of sea was olokun and the God of the land was oba who also control the sky for rain they didn't imagine there was a being up there until the European brought the concept of Jesus and the benin made an assumption out of it....

UGBE634:
All those Ogiesoba and Oba'r'Ogie should already tell you the comparison, dichotomy and strife that existed between them before one gave way for the other if you have a functioning brain.

That the Ogi-egor is older than the Oba's stool is not in contention at all. That's why he is also called Osanegor, go and Ask your elders.

Even the enogieship of Urhonigbe is far older than the Oba's dynasty too. It evolved from the Oldest man in the community, infact that is what is still in place.

The Ogisos were never emperors or conquerors, their powers could at best be described as soft or spiritual over other Edo communities and their Enogies. The "Iso" in their title suggest an heavenly mandate. It can at best be described as the sort of influence, the Okaigiesan has over other Esan communities and their Enogies. We were a republican people

Even the Enogie of Egor closest to it was independent.

On the other hand, the Ogie-amien have theirs too, which is "Ogie-amien, Aimien Oba"

Meaning na king them dae see o, dem nor dae see Oba.

Oba is alien, He is not from the land, the word "Oba" is foreign, the way it is pronounced suggest so absolutely

There was never an ogiso you fool

Back it up with written European evidence of benin mentioning ogiso

You're big fool

Efewestern:
I've highlighted some keys points from UGBE634, AreaFada2 and samuk. Edeyoung, I saw your mention and I will try to answer below.







First of all, we all can agree that there was a major divergence amongst the Edoid group. Most groups left during the Ogiso Dynasty (Igodomigodo) and at that time, the current Empire wasn't formed.

Before their departure, The Ogie title was prominent and it didn't by anyway mean Chief/Duke as some would want us to believe. The Urhobos/Isokos who were the largest stock to leave had records of her relationship with Aka and even marked her territories as we can see in Abraka which means a border with Aka.

Before the establishment of the Oba dynasty by Oba Eweka I, most Edoid groups who migrated to various areas were already established, forging with their separate identity except for recent migrators like Iwere who later adopted a Bini Prince.

Wether or not Oba was used during the Ogiso era is still very debatable and inputs from those against and for the argument are valid. I've noted some valid corrections myself and I've also gained some insights.

Efewestern, Ogie meant duke. Ogiegor was always a chief/duke. His position predated Oba period. At no point was he ever called king as ogie.

Ovies didn't start out as kings one day. Their power gradually increased, like it did virtually everywhere else in the world. This is the benefit of comparative history, if you know it.

Again, not all Edoid groups were fully established in diaspora by Oba era. Many Esan people left Benin during Oba Ewuare reign (1440-1473). There was a Grand Royal Conference in Benin in 1480s to anoint Esan enigies/dukes officially. The name Onojie have stuck with them, the current royal status by law irrespective. Among others on that conference agenda was designation of seniority among Esan dukes. The Onojie of Irrua is the senior Onojie. By tradition, if a Benin man is not present at a gathering, an Irrua man breaks the Kola-nut. The logic is that the Benin man represents the Oba and Irrua man represents Onojie of Irrua. Many Esan people have confirmed this to me over a period of last 30 plus years.

Of late in diaspora, I have seen one occasion when Esan have asked for two bowls of Kola nuts. One for Benin, one for Esan.
We will keep diverging and language will keep losing similarity. My elderly folks called coconut Ekokodia 40 years ago. You won't hear a young Benin person call it Ekokodia today. 50 years from now, just like Okoro, some will claim that Kokodia is only a pure Delta word for coconut.

Post-1914 (restoration of monarchy terms), we are not concerned with whatever title or status rulers outside Edo South are said to or claim to have or gazetted legally as.

Unless you can provide evidence from at least early 1800s that Ovies were kings from day 1, they were chiefs/dukes to begin with. That is why they came to "buy ovieship" from Benin. If they were authoritarian or very powerful, by the standards of transport back then, in their faraway domain and acted like a king, that was their prerogative.

Back then, Oba cared mostly about allegiance, loyalty, continuity and order. Many local issues were devolved to local rulers. including issue of slavery practice.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk

AreaFada2:


Efewestern, Ogie meant duke. Ogiegor was always a chief/duke. His position predated Oba period. At no point was he ever called king as ogie.

Ovies didn't start out as kings one day. Their power gradually increased, like it did virtually everywhere else in the world. This is the benefit of comparative history, if you know it.

Again, not all Eoid groups were fully established in diaspora by Oba era. Many Esan people left Benin during Oba Ewuare reign (1440-1473). There was a Grand Royal Conference in Benin in 1480s to anoint Esan enigies/dukes officially. The name Onojie have stuck with them, the current royal status by law irrespective. Among others on that conference agenda was designation of seniority among Esan dukes. The Onojie of Irrua is the senior Onojie. By tradition, if a Benin man is not present at a gathering, an Irrua man breaks the Kola-nut. The logic is that the Benin man represents the Oba and Irrua man represents Onojie of Irrua. Many Esan people have confirmed this to me over a period of last 30 plus years.

Of late in diaspora, I have seen one occasion when Esan have asked for two bowls of Kola nuts. One for Benin, one for Esan.
We will keep diverging and language will keep losing similarity. My elderly folks called coconut Ekokodia 40 years ago. You won't hear a young Benin person call it Ekokodia today. 50 years from now, just like Okoro, some will claim that Kokodia is only a pure Delta word for coconut.

Post-1914 (restoration of monarchy terms), we are not concerned with whatever title or status rulers outside Edo South are said to or claim to have or gazetted legally as.

Unless you can provide evidence from at least early 1800s that Ovies were kings from day 1, they were chiefs/dukes to begin with. That is why they came to "buy ovieship" from Benin. If they were authoritarian or very powerful, by the standards of transport back then, in their faraway domain and acted like a king, that was their prerogative.

Back then, Oba cared mostly about allegiance, loyalty, continuity and order. Many local issues were devolved to local rulers. including issue of slavery practice.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk

All round facts 🤞

Efewestern:
I've highlighted some keys points from UGBE634, AreaFada2 and samuk. Edeyoung, I saw your mention and I will try to answer below.







First of all, we all can agree that there was a major divergence amongst the Edoid group. Most groups left during the Ogiso Dynasty (Igodomigodo) and at that time, the current Empire wasn't formed.

Before their departure, The Ogie title was prominent and it didn't by anyway mean Chief/Duke as some would want us to believe. The Urhobos/Isokos who were the largest stock to leave had records of her relationship with Aka and even marked her territories as we can see in Abraka which means a border with Aka.

Before the establishment of the Oba dynasty by Oba Eweka I, most Edoid groups who migrated to various areas were already established, forging with their separate identity except for recent migrators like Iwere who later adopted a Bini Prince.

Wether or not Oba was used during the Ogiso era is still very debatable and inputs from those against and for the argument are valid. I've noted some valid corrections myself and I've also gained some insights.

Understanding how kingdom and empire evolves is the key to understanding that the Oba title couldn't have be borrowed by Benin.

Let's take the evolution of the United Kingdom of Great Britain for example.

It started out with various tribesmen jostling for powers, there were wars amongst the various ethnic groups. The Roman empire invaded and conquered Britain. Britain was under Roman rule for 400 years.

In the 400 years of Roman occupation of Britain, they built and organised the society, they built roads and monuments that can still be seen today.

After the collapse of Rome, Britain gain independence and it took several more centuries before the United Kingdom evolved to start their own colonisation of the word. Most great kingdoms follow the same pattern of evolution and Benin is not different.

The Benin Kingdom took hundreds of years to became the powerhouse it was in ancient times.

There are no records that Ife was a Kingdom. There are no records that Ife colonised Benin. The suggestion that such an advance society as Benin would have sent for a total foreigner to rule over them doesn't make sense.

The story is that Oranmiyan came to Benin, donated sperms for the birth of Oba Eweka 1 and left after three months, again how does this make sense.

AreaFada2:


Efewestern, Ogie meant duke. Ogiegor was always a chief/duke. His position predated Oba period. At no point was he ever called king as ogie.

Ovies didn't start out as kings one day. Their power gradually increased, like it did virtually everywhere else in the world. This is the benefit of comparative history, if you know it.

Again, not all Eoid groups were fully established in diaspora by Oba era. Many Esan people left Benin during Oba Ewuare reign (1440-1473). There was a Grand Royal Conference in Benin in 1480s to anoint Esan enigies/dukes officially. The name Onojie have stuck with them, [/b]the current royal status by law irrespective. Among others on that conference agenda was designation of seniority among Esan dukes. [b]The Onojie of Irrua is the senior Onojie. By tradition, if a Benin man is not present at a gathering, an Irrua man breaks the Kola-nut. The logic is that the Benin man represents the Oba and Irrua man represents Onojie of Irrua. Many Esan people have confirmed this to me over a period of last 30 plus years.

Of late in diaspora, I have seen one occasion when Esan have asked for two bowls of Kola nuts. One for Benin, one for Esan.
We will keep diverging and language will keep losing similarity. My elderly folks called coconut Ekokodia 40 years ago. You won't hear a young Benin person call it Ekokodia today. 50 years from now, just like Okoro, some will claim that Kokodia is only a pure Delta word for coconut.

Post-1914 (restoration of monarchy terms), we are not concerned with whatever title or status rulers outside Edo South are said to or claim to have or gazetted legally as.

Unless you can provide evidence from at least early 1800s that Ovies were kings from day 1, they were chiefs/dukes to begin with. That is why they came to "buy ovieship" from Benin. If they were authoritarian or very powerful, by the standards of transport back then, in their faraway domain and acted like a king, that was their prerogative.

Back then, Oba cared mostly about allegiance, loyalty, continuity and order. Many local issues were devolved to local rulers. including issue of slavery practice.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk

At no point was he ever called by who? When you say someone is a duke, he was under another, who was he under? If

The senior you are talking about here is ceremonial,it is a soft influence, a very weak one, it is just like saying the Others in Esanland are dukes because they respect the Onojie of Irrua. "All of them hold their side o, if Onojie of Irrua do anyhow, them go chook hand for e eye nothing go happen".

The Onojie of Ekpoma is the sovereign of Ekpoma and can preside over issues in Ekpoma 💯 as it pertains to traditional matters or land without seeking the advice of Okaigiesan except he chooses to, same with Uromi, Igueben etc. When it comes to monarchical and traditional power over their domain, they have 💯 sovereignty.

Above all, they are all gazeted, the Onojie of Irrua does not hold any special role in the eyes of the constitution than the others, they are all equal and none is subordinate in the eyes of the constitution aside the senior brother position they see Irrua with which seem to only appear when they gather

Stuck with them how? It is their cognate word for king, bequeathed to them by their Edo ancestor who birthed Bini and Urhobo too

UGBE634:
At no point was he ever called by who? When you say someone is a duke, he was under another, who was he under? If

The senior you are talking about here is ceremonial,it is a soft influence, a very weak one, it is just like saying the Others in Esanland are dukes because they respect the Onojie of Irrua. "All of them hold their side o, if Onojie of Irrua do anyhow, them go chook hand for e eye nothing go happen".

The Onojie of Ekpoma is the sovereign of Ekpoma and can preside over issues in Ekpoma 💯 as it pertains to traditional matters or land without seeking the advice of Okaigiesan except he chooses to, same with Uromi, Igueben etc. When it comes to monarchical and traditional power over their domain, they have 💯 sovereignty.

Above all, they are all gazeted, the Onojie of Irrua does not hold any special role in the eyes of the constitution than the others, they are all equal and none is subordinate in the eyes of the constitution aside the senior brother position they see Irrua with which seem to only appear when they gather

Stuck with them how? It is their cognate word for king, bequeathed to them by their Edo ancestor who birthed Bini and Urhobo too

My brother, you are just a bit too hubristic to digest what you read before replying.
You fail to separate history from the present.

How do I care or how is it relevant who today in Esanland is the senior ruler or not?
I just laid down the history and the remnants of it today. I don't want to even be present with breaking kola-nut with any other tribe, if I can avoid it.

Perhaps soon enough Edo North and Central will have their own State and divergence will even be more. Considering how diversity has ruined 9ja, homogeneity is far better. Japan and South Korea prove it. Even if not country yet, let's begin with states that are more homogeneous.

The name stuck because the Grand Royal conference conferred that title. Same as Ogiame stuck with Olu of Warri.

No real evidence that any Esan group left Benin before 1255 when Oba Ewedo's reign began. Oba title was well established already.

Samuk and Automaticmotor

We were discussing chieftaincy titles yesterday. I was very busy, chipping in and out. The around 300 titles Oba has to give out in Benin, our father was given that same rare privilege back in the day. Only a handful of dukes have that full privilege.

As a kid, I saw our father bestow those titles on deserving citizens. Oba Erediauwa as a crown prince was fairly regular back then and knew many of our father's chiefs personally.

When these titles were given out, our local Iyase would educate new chiefs about the history of these titles, how they came about in Benin and privileges and obligations attached. The full traditional observations when given "ivie" by the duke's officials must be done. Like not leaving your house for 7 days. When the palace finally gives the name of the title, it is another 7 days indoors. Of course with all the other processes that follow.

Talking with some custodians in Eastern Yorubaland, I was shocked to learn that our father had more privileges than them in imperial times. They are respected rulers today. For example, my ancestors were not required to bring leopards hunted in their forests/domain to Benin. Those in Eastern Yorubaland had to! However, if our father's servants caught live leopard cubs, the palace in Benin would particularly value it and it was good practice of honour to take the cubs to Beinin.

Keeping hunted leopards to yourself might seem insignificant now, but the arduous journey to Benin on foot through forest roads, whatever the season, was not a joke back then. So it was a big deal.

I grew up hearing stories of relatives who travelled on foot from Edo to Ondo on visits towards end of 19th century, about 1880 to 1900 period. And the adventure of it all.

Anybody can come online, use conjecture but nothing close to reality and just write. That's easy.
I write here because I believe in broadening our horizons and learning.

AreaFada2:


My brother, you are just a bit too hubristic to digest what you read before replying.
You fail to separate history from the present.

How do I care or how is it relevant who today in Esanland is the senior ruler or not?
I just laid down the history and the remnants of it today. I don't want to even be present with breaking kola-nut with any other tribe, if I can avoid it.

Perhaps soon enough Edo North and Central will have their own State and divergence will even be more. Considering how diversity has ruined 9ja, homogeneity is far better. Japan and South Korea prove it. Even if not country yet, let's begin with states that are more homogeneous.

The name stuck because the Grand Royal conference conferred that title. Same as Ogiame stuck with Olu of Warri.

No real evidence that any Esan group left Benin before 1255 when Oba Ewedo's reign began. Oba title was well established already.

Samuk and Automaticmotor

We were discussing chieftaincy titles yesterday. I was very busy, chipping in and out. The around 300 titles Oba has to give out in Benin, our father was given that same rare privilege back in the day. Only a handful of dukes have that full privilege.

As a kid, I saw our father bestow those titles on deserving citizens. Oba Erediauwa as a crown prince was fairly regular back then and knew many of our father's chiefs personally.

When these titles were given out, our local Iyase would educate new chiefs about the history of these titles, how they came about in Benin and privileges and obligations attached. The full traditional observations when given "ivie" by the duke's officials must be done. Like not leaving your house for 7 days. When the palace finally gives the name of the title, it is another 7 days indoors. Of course with all the other processes that follow.

Talking with some custodians in Eastern Yorubaland, I was shocked to learn that our father had more privileges than them in imperial times. They are respected rulers today. For example, my ancestors were not required to bring leopards hunted in their forests/domain to Benin. Those in Eastern Yorubaland had to! However, if our father's servants caught live leopard cubs, the palace in Benin would particularly value it and it was good practice of honour to take the cubs to Beinin.

Keeping hunted leopards to yourself might seem insignificant now, but the arduous journey to Benin on foot through forest roads, whatever the season, was not a joke back then. So it was a big deal.

I grew up hearing stories of relatives who travelled on foot from Edo to Ondo on visits towards end of 19th century, about 1880 to 1900 period. And the adventure of it all.

Anybody can come online, use conjecture but nothing close to reality and just write. That's easy.
I write here because I believe in broadening our horizons and learning.

Even in history, I was trying to point out that the influence was still subtle, it was one of recognition by the Esan kings that Irrua is the most senior and it ends there. I just wanted to point it out so that people will not mistake your senior for subservient role

What you should have opined is that the stool was gifted not the name or title Onojie or Ojie. An Onojie or Ojie title can't stick with Esan, 'a core Edo group', Saying it stuck with them is like saying Oba stuck with the other yoruba towns that received kings from Ife, it is that absurd and weird, I don't know how else to put it. In the sense that, Even if they were to have evolved a monarchy of their own, that is if an Oba was not in Benin that gifted them such stools, those monarchs would still go with the Title Onojie or Ojie. I mean it is who they are, the core fabric of their being. They have no other word for king . That is why I describe the "Oba" as an emperor, the word Oba is not what we have properly domesticated to mean king, given the fact that he was so mighty and his title is not what we can interprete.

If the Itsekiri were to have evolved a monarchy on their own, they would never have gone with the title Ogiame, remember we are talking about the true meaning and intent here. We already have a template in Urhobo and Bini to follow and know that Ojie or Onojie is a cognate word for king, just like Ovie and Ogie. Also we have some template to follow in Benin and Urhobo such that there was already some kings with titles Ogie and Ovie before the emergence of the Oba of Benin that were independent.

AreaFada2:


My brother, you are just a bit too hubristic to digest what you read before replying.
You fail to separate history from the present.

How do I care or how is it relevant who today in Esanland is the senior ruler or not?
I just laid down the history and the remnants of it today. I don't want to even be present with breaking kola-nut with any other tribe, if I can avoid it.

Perhaps soon enough Edo North and Central will have their own State and divergence will even be more. Considering how diversity has ruined 9ja, homogeneity is far better. Japan and South Korea prove it. Even if not country yet, let's begin with states that are more homogeneous.

The name stuck because the Grand Royal conference conferred that title. Same as Ogiame stuck with Olu of Warri.

No real evidence that any Esan group left Benin before 1255 when Oba Ewedo's reign began. Oba title was well established already.

Samuk and Automaticmotor

We were discussing chieftaincy titles yesterday. I was very busy, chipping in and out. The around 300 titles Oba has to give out in Benin, our father was given that same rare privilege back in the day. Only a handful of dukes have that full privilege.

As a kid, I saw our father bestow those titles on deserving citizens. Oba Erediauwa as a crown prince was fairly regular back then and knew many of our father's chiefs personally.

When these titles were given out, our local Iyase would educate new chiefs about the history of these titles, how they came about in Benin and privileges and obligations attached. The full traditional observations when given "ivie" by the duke's officials must be done. Like not leaving your house for 7 days. When the palace finally gives the name of the title, it is another 7 days indoors. Of course with all the other processes that follow.

Talking with some custodians in Eastern Yorubaland, I was shocked to learn that our father had more privileges than them in imperial times. They are respected rulers today. For example, my ancestors were not required to bring leopards hunted in their forests/domain to Benin. Those in Eastern Yorubaland had to! However, if our father's servants caught live leopard cubs, the palace in Benin would particularly value it and it was good practice of honour to take the cubs to Beinin.

Keeping hunted leopards to yourself might seem insignificant now, but the arduous journey to Benin on foot through forest roads, whatever the season, was not a joke back then. So it was a big deal.

I grew up hearing stories of relatives who travelled on foot from Edo to Ondo on visits towards end of 19th century, about 1880 to 1900 period. And the adventure of it all.

Anybody can come online, use conjecture but nothing close to reality and just write. That's easy.
I write here because I believe in broadening our horizons and learning.

Boss do you believe we still have leopards in Edo forests till today? That animal and the palace na 5&6 through out history but for the life of me I never see one for Benin before neither have I even heard of one caught/killed since I was born ..... But I know elephants are in Okomu and Gelegele Axis

AutomaticMotors:


Boss do you believe we still have leopards in Edo forests till today? That animal and the palace na 5&6 through out history but for the life of me I never see one for Benin before neither have I even heard of one caught/killed since I was born ..... But I know elephants are in Okomu and Gelegele Axis

A lot of animals have gone near extinct, across the world. Even Asian Leopards. Leopards were never easy to sight or catch in our forests and hunting methods were quite inefficient. So loss of habitat played the biggest role. They probably were never that many within the forests anyway. Like other wild cats, they may have very few predators, their reproduction is not prolific.

That's always a downside for any species that relies on high survival rates to thrive.

They were once in Southern 9ja. They are sometimes sighted in Northern 9ja game reserves these days. There might be a few forest leopards in Benin area, but hard to sight.

UGBE634:
Even in history, I was trying to point out that the influence was still subtle, it was one of recognition by the Esan kings that Irrua is the most senior and it ends there. I just wanted to point it out so that people will not mistake your senior for subservient role

What you should have opined is that the stool was gifted not the name or title Onojie or Ojie. An Onojie or Ojie title can't stick with Esan, 'a core Edo group', Saying it stuck with them is like saying Oba stuck with the other yoruba towns that received kings from Ife, it is that absurd and weird, I don't know how else to put it. In the sense that, Even if they were to have evolved a monarchy of their own, that is if an Oba was not in Benin that gifted them such stools, those monarchs would still go with the Title Onojie or Ojie. I mean it is who they are, the core fabric of their being. They have no other word for king . That is why I describe the "Oba" as an emperor, the word Oba is not what we have properly domesticated to mean king, given the fact that he was so mighty and his title is not what we can interprete.

If the Itsekiri were to have evolved a monarchy on their own, they would never have gone with the title Ogiame, remember we are talking about the true meaning and intent here. We already have a template in Urhobo and Bini to follow and know that Ojie or Onojie is a cognate word for king, just like Ovie and Ogie. Also we have some template to follow in Benin and Urhobo such that there was already some kings with titles Ogie and Ovie before the emergence of the Oba of Benin that were independent.

Oga stop forming nonsense in your head

There was no Emergence of any oba of benin

The oba has remained oba likewise they have always been ogie there is no ife that came to unite benin people

The edo people did that themselves

When benin was being formed it was not formed with war neither was any great nation
When England was formed to what makes England today it was not formed by force so remove that thought of your yoruba ife coming to form benin

The benin were formed through mutual agreement the person who was choosing to be the first oba probably did a remarkable thing that made the benin belive he was the chosen one and as such he was made the first oba and all enogie paid him respect

UGBE634:
Even in history, I was trying to point out that the influence was still subtle, it was one of recognition by the Esan kings that Irrua is the most senior and it ends there. I just wanted to point it out so that people will not mistake your senior for subservient role


If the Itsekiri were to have evolved a monarchy on their own, they would never have gone with the title Ogiame, remember we are talking about the true meaning and intent here. We already have a template in Urhobo and Bini to follow and know that Ojie or Onojie is a cognate word for king, just like Ovie and Ogie. Also we have some template to follow in Benin and Urhobo such that there was already some kings with titles Ogie and Ovie before the emergence of the Oba of Benin that were independent.

Dude, you jump from one minutiae to another. I said one among the agendas at GRC in 1480s was designating seniority of Onojies. The remnant persists till today.

Haba! How does it prove level of control or independence? How can we now say everything that it covered when things have evolved since over 500 years?

Good empires were not necessarily control freaks, unless they feared rebellion, couldn't bank on loyalty or otherwise have reasons for tighter control.

Pontius Pilate didn't want to be involved in Jesus' and Pharisees case. He said it was a local religious issue. If Jesus didn't stop residents of Roman Judea from paying their taxes, didn't say he was superior to Caesar on earthly basis or support rebellion, Rome had no interest. He had to be almost forced to act. Not to appear weak to Judean masses. And washed his hands!

I gave an example with faraway Eastern Yorubaland, how some local royal dukes nearer to Benin, like my ancestors, even had more privileges than some of them. Some of those provincial rulers spent childhood as "omada" in Benin to learn Benin culture and administration.

If you truly know Benin history even a little bit, did more reading and research, you will know one well-known Eastern Yoruba prince who was an omada. He later fell out with Benin when he became ruler in his land. If not that Oyinbo documented it, they would deny today that their future ruler served as omada to prepare for his future role as ruler back home.

I can now agree that your knowledge of evolution of royal traditions, even of Benin history, is not that deep. Or your personal agenda is totally different.

I keep writing what I observed growing up, history written in my presence, learning about Eastern Yorubaland, what I learnt through comparing Greek, Roman, Persian and other better documented imperial histories.

If you are not proud of Benin role in maintaining order in the South Eastern part of West Africa, or your other ethnic affiliations make you resent Oba and Benin history, that's fine. But don't conjecture widely.

We know of resentment by some of our neighbours over historical Benin dominance. No biggie. Nature abhors vacuum and Benin Empire always followed that natural law. The pushback today is to be resentful, deny it, minimise it or confusingly, all of the aforementioned.

To say that Iwerre had not evolved their monarchy on their own is wrong. They have added "Olu", though a direct equivalent Yoruboid word for Ogie or Lord, Igininuwa left Benin with younger sons of 65 chiefs to replicate titles of Benin courtiers in Iwerre, today Iwerre have other more Yoruba sounding titles, they have female chiefs, Ologbosere (3rd in miliary hierarchy in ancient Benin) is a more high ranking chief in Warri (even sometimes serving as Prime Minister), etc.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk
Davidnaze

AreaFada2:

Dude, you jump from one minutiae to another. I said one among the agendas at GRC in 1480s was designating seniority of Onojies. The remnant persists till today.

Haba! How does it prove level of control or independence? How can we now say everything that it covered when things have evolved since over 500 years?

Good empires were not necessarily control freaks, unless they feared rebellion, couldn't bank on loyalty or otherwise have reasons for tighter control.

Pontius Pilate didn't want to be involved in Jesus' and Pharisees case. He said it was a local religious issue. If Jesus didn't stop residents of Roman Judea from paying their taxes, didn't say he was superior to Caesar on earthly basis or support rebellion, Rome had no interest. He had to be almost forced to act. Not to appear weak to Judean masses. And washed his hands!

I gave an example with faraway Eastern Yorubaland, how some local royal dukes nearer to Benin, like my ancestors, even had more privileges than some of them. Some of those provincial rulers spent childhood as "omada" in Benin to learn Benin culture and administration.

If you truly know Benin history even a little bit, did more reading and research, you will know one well-known Eastern Yoruba prince who was an omada. He later fell out with Benin when he became ruler in his land. If not that Oyinbo documented it, they would deny today that their future ruler served as omada to prepare for his future role as ruler back home.

I can now agree that your knowledge of evolution of royal traditions, even of Benin history, is not that deep. Or your personal agenda is totally different.

I keep writing what I observed growing up, history written in my presence, learning about Eastern Yorubaland, what I learnt through comparing Greek, Roman, Persian and other better documented imperial histories.

If you are not proud of Benin role in maintaining order in the South Eastern part of West Africa, or your other ethnic affiliations make you resent Oba and Benin history, that's fine. But don't conjecture widely.

We know of resentment by some of our neighbours over historical Benin dominance. No biggie. Nature abhors vacuum and Benin Empire always followed that natural law. The pushback today is to be resentful, deny it, minimise it or confusingly, all of the aforementioned.

To say that Iwerre had not evolved their monarchy on their own is wrong. They have added "Olu", though a direct equivalent Yoruboid word for Ogie or Lord, Igininuwa left Benin with younger sons of 65 chiefs to replicate titles of Benin courtiers in Iwerre, today Iwerre have other more Yoruba sounding titles, they have female chiefs, Ologbosere (3rd in miliary hierarchy in ancient Benin) is a more high ranking chief in Warri (even sometimes serving as Prime Minister), etc.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk
Davidnaze

This is BS, written boldly.

AreaFada2:

Dude, you jump from one minutiae to another. I said one among the agendas at GRC in 1480s was designating seniority of Onojies. The remnant persists till today.

Haba! How does it prove level of control or independence? How can we now say everything that it covered when things have evolved since over 500 years?

Good empires were not necessarily control freaks, unless they feared rebellion, couldn't bank on loyalty or otherwise have reasons for tighter control.

Pontius Pilate didn't want to be involved in Jesus' and Pharisees case. He said it was a local religious issue. If Jesus didn't stop residents of Roman Judea from paying their taxes, didn't say he was superior to Caesar on earthly basis or support rebellion, Rome had no interest. He had to be almost forced to act. Not to appear weak to Judean masses. And washed his hands!

I gave an example with faraway Eastern Yorubaland, how some local royal dukes nearer to Benin, like my ancestors, even had more privileges than some of them. Some of those provincial rulers spent childhood as "omada" in Benin to learn Benin culture and administration.

If you truly know Benin history even a little bit, did more reading and research, you will know one well-known Eastern Yoruba prince who was an omada. He later fell out with Benin when he became ruler in his land. If not that Oyinbo documented it, they would deny today that their future ruler served as omada to prepare for his future role as ruler back home.

I can now agree that your knowledge of evolution of royal traditions, even of Benin history, is not that deep. Or your personal agenda is totally different.

I keep writing what I observed growing up, history written in my presence, learning about Eastern Yorubaland, what I learnt through comparing Greek, Roman, Persian and other better documented imperial histories.

If you are not proud of Benin role in maintaining order in the South Eastern part of West Africa, or your other ethnic affiliations make you resent Oba and Benin history, that's fine. But don't conjecture widely.

We know of resentment by some of our neighbours over historical Benin dominance. No biggie. Nature abhors vacuum and Benin Empire always followed that natural law. The pushback today is to be resentful, deny it, minimise it or confusingly, all of the aforementioned.

To say that Iwerre had not evolved their monarchy on their own is wrong. They have added "Olu", though a direct equivalent Yoruboid word for Ogie or Lord, Igininuwa left Benin with younger sons of 65 chiefs to replicate titles of Benin courtiers in Iwerre, today Iwerre have other more Yoruba sounding titles, they have female chiefs, Ologbosere (3rd in miliary hierarchy in ancient Benin) is a more high ranking chief in Warri (even sometimes serving as Prime Minister), etc.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk
Davidnaze

If really you know Esan history, you will know this, I left benefit of doubt for you thinking this was already common knowledge. I am 25 percent Esan and seem to know alot of these people and their history. It seems like you just need to be taught outrightly.

Irrua was not prominent aside her subtle role she was given as head of the Esan people by the Oba of Benin. That role is not what some of them has come to accept, for example, Ewohimi is the oldest town in Esanland and her stool is the oldest in Esanland, on that basis, Ewohimi has never really accepted the seniority of Irrua. Uromi on the other hand, was a military powerhouse throughout history and had a more robust political Organization, on that basis Uromi has never accepted the seniority of Irrua. The position of Irrua as the senior Even as a subtle role has always been contested by these factions. In Esanland today, there are two factions, Okpevbo and Agbazilo. Okpevbo are those communities within Esan west, Esan central, and Igueben. While Agbazilo are those communities within Esan north east and Esan south east

Most communities from Agbazilo believe that they are aborigines or most of their migrations were during the Ogiso dynasty.

While Okpebho are those ones that opine they majorly migrated during Oba Ewuares reign

From Agbazilo, Uromi and Ewohimi did not accept the seniority of Irrua in history and only reluctantly accept today. The role of Irrua was never beyond a subtle role and the only Person they were subject to as a whole was the Oba of Benin.

I never said they have not evolved their own monarchy, I never said anything of such, what I wrote is there for everyone to see. it is like you seem to have a problem with comprehension too. What I said was this, that if they have evolved their own monarchy without the Oba of Benin sending anyone, the king they evolved locally would never have gone with the title Ogiame, because they are a yoruboid group, that is when we can say the title [b]stuck[/b] but the Esans, such cannot be said because that is their only word for king

AreaFada2:

Dude, you jump from one minutiae to another. I said one among the agendas at GRC in 1480s was designating seniority of Onojies. The remnant persists till today.

Haba! How does it prove level of control or independence? How can we now say everything that it covered when things have evolved since over 500 years?

Good empires were not necessarily control freaks, unless they feared rebellion, couldn't bank on loyalty or otherwise have reasons for tighter control.

Pontius Pilate didn't want to be involved in Jesus' and Pharisees case. He said it was a local religious issue. If Jesus didn't stop residents of Roman Judea from paying their taxes, didn't say he was superior to Caesar on earthly basis or support rebellion, Rome had no interest. He had to be almost forced to act. Not to appear weak to Judean masses. And washed his hands!

I gave an example with faraway Eastern Yorubaland, how some local royal dukes nearer to Benin, like my ancestors, even had more privileges than some of them. Some of those provincial rulers spent childhood as "omada" in Benin to learn Benin culture and administration.

If you truly know Benin history even a little bit, did more reading and research, you will know one well-known Eastern Yoruba prince who was an omada. He later fell out with Benin when he became ruler in his land. If not that Oyinbo documented it, they would deny today that their future ruler served as omada to prepare for his future role as ruler back home.

I can now agree that your knowledge of evolution of royal traditions, even of Benin history, is not that deep. Or your personal agenda is totally different.

I keep writing what I observed growing up, history written in my presence, learning about Eastern Yorubaland, what I learnt through comparing Greek, Roman, Persian and other better documented imperial histories.

If you are not proud of Benin role in maintaining order in the South Eastern part of West Africa, or your other ethnic affiliations make you resent Oba and Benin history, that's fine. But don't conjecture widely.

We know of resentment by some of our neighbours over historical Benin dominance. No biggie. Nature abhors vacuum and Benin Empire always followed that natural law. The pushback today is to be resentful, deny it, minimise it or confusingly, all of the aforementioned.

To say that Iwerre had not evolved their monarchy on their own is wrong. They have added "Olu", though a direct equivalent Yoruboid word for Ogie or Lord, Igininuwa left Benin with younger sons of 65 chiefs to replicate titles of Benin courtiers in Iwerre, today Iwerre have other more Yoruba sounding titles, they have female chiefs, Ologbosere (3rd in miliary hierarchy in ancient Benin) is a more high ranking chief in Warri (even sometimes serving as Prime Minister), etc.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk
Davidnaze

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

AreaFada2:

Dude, you jump from one minutiae to another. I said one among the agendas at GRC in 1480s was designating seniority of Onojies. The remnant persists till today.

Haba! How does it prove level of control or independence? How can we now say everything that it covered when things have evolved since over 500 years?

Good empires were not necessarily control freaks, unless they feared rebellion, couldn't bank on loyalty or otherwise have reasons for tighter control.

Pontius Pilate didn't want to be involved in Jesus' and Pharisees case. He said it was a local religious issue. If Jesus didn't stop residents of Roman Judea from paying their taxes, didn't say he was superior to Caesar on earthly basis or support rebellion, Rome had no interest. He had to be almost forced to act. Not to appear weak to Judean masses. And washed his hands!

I gave an example with faraway Eastern Yorubaland, how some local royal dukes nearer to Benin, like my ancestors, even had more privileges than some of them. Some of those provincial rulers spent childhood as "omada" in Benin to learn Benin culture and administration.

If you truly know Benin history even a little bit, did more reading and research, you will know one well-known Eastern Yoruba prince who was an omada. He later fell out with Benin when he became ruler in his land. If not that Oyinbo documented it, they would deny today that their future ruler served as omada to prepare for his future role as ruler back home.

I can now agree that your knowledge of evolution of royal traditions, even of Benin history, is not that deep. Or your personal agenda is totally different.

I keep writing what I observed growing up, history written in my presence, learning about Eastern Yorubaland, what I learnt through comparing Greek, Roman, Persian and other better documented imperial histories.

If you are not proud of Benin role in maintaining order in the South Eastern part of West Africa, or your other ethnic affiliations make you resent Oba and Benin history, that's fine. But don't conjecture widely.

We know of resentment by some of our neighbours over historical Benin dominance. No biggie. Nature abhors vacuum and Benin Empire always followed that natural law. The pushback today is to be resentful, deny it, minimise it or confusingly, all of the aforementioned.

To say that Iwerre had not evolved their monarchy on their own is wrong. They have added "Olu", though a direct equivalent Yoruboid word for Ogie or Lord, Igininuwa left Benin with younger sons of 65 chiefs to replicate titles of Benin courtiers in Iwerre, today Iwerre have other more Yoruba sounding titles, they have female chiefs, Ologbosere (3rd in miliary hierarchy in ancient Benin) is a more high ranking chief in Warri (even sometimes serving as Prime Minister), etc.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk
Davidnaze

The bolded part of your submission is very correct.

AreaFada2:

Dude, you jump from one minutiae to another. I said one among the agendas at GRC in 1480s was designating seniority of Onojies. The remnant persists till today.

Haba! How does it prove level of control or independence? How can we now say everything that it covered when things have evolved since over 500 years?

Good empires were not necessarily control freaks, unless they feared rebellion, couldn't bank on loyalty or otherwise have reasons for tighter control.

Pontius Pilate didn't want to be involved in Jesus' and Pharisees case. He said it was a local religious issue. If Jesus didn't stop residents of Roman Judea from paying their taxes, didn't say he was superior to Caesar on earthly basis or support rebellion, Rome had no interest. He had to be almost forced to act. Not to appear weak to Judean masses. And washed his hands!

I gave an example with faraway Eastern Yorubaland, how some local royal dukes nearer to Benin, like my ancestors, even had more privileges than some of them. Some of those provincial rulers spent childhood as "omada" in Benin to learn Benin culture and administration.

If you truly know Benin history even a little bit, did more reading and research, you will know one well-known Eastern Yoruba prince who was an omada. He later fell out with Benin when he became ruler in his land. If not that Oyinbo documented it, they would deny today that their future ruler served as omada to prepare for his future role as ruler back home.

I can now agree that your knowledge of evolution of royal traditions, even of Benin history, is not that deep. Or your personal agenda is totally different.

I keep writing what I observed growing up, history written in my presence, learning about Eastern Yorubaland, what I learnt through comparing Greek, Roman, Persian and other better documented imperial histories.

If you are not proud of Benin role in maintaining order in the South Eastern part of West Africa, or your other ethnic affiliations make you resent Oba and Benin history, that's fine. But don't conjecture widely.

We know of resentment by some of our neighbours over historical Benin dominance. No biggie. Nature abhors vacuum and Benin Empire always followed that natural law. The pushback today is to be resentful, deny it, minimise it or confusingly, all of the aforementioned.

To say that Iwerre had not evolved their monarchy on their own is wrong. They have added "Olu", though a direct equivalent Yoruboid word for Ogie or Lord, Igininuwa left Benin with younger sons of 65 chiefs to replicate titles of Benin courtiers in Iwerre, today Iwerre have other more Yoruba sounding titles, they have female chiefs, Ologbosere (3rd in miliary hierarchy in ancient Benin) is a more high ranking chief in Warri (even sometimes serving as Prime Minister), etc.

Gregyboy
Automaticmotor
Samuk
Davidnaze

Very well said bro.
Some people like this UGBE634 out of low self esteem come up with absurd and foolish opinion just to make themselves feel better.
I have come across a few Edo people like that, i just look at them and laugh. They are lost.

UGBE634:
If really know Esan history, you will know this, I left benefit of doubt for you thinking this was already common knowledge. I am 25 percent Esan and seem to know alot of these people and their history.

[/b]

Ah! We finally got there at the end. You should have said that earlier. Your arguments now make more sense. It would probably make more sense for you to create an Esan history thread to discuss how Benin people and Oba are strangers in Igodomigodo land.

Thanks and goodbye.

AreaFada2:

Ah! We finally got there at the end. You should have said that earlier.

Thanks and bye.

There is no time I hid that, my paternal grandmother is from there. When it comes to Esan history, you are a novice

If there is anyone daft here in history and organization here it is you, how did the many nonsense you wrote relate to what we are talking about

I was trying to establish three points

one of them was this

That Irrua never went beyond a soft power, more like a spiritual head, if you have as much as 2 percent of knowledge of Esan history, you will know this

The second was That the Original meaning of Ojie/Ogie/Ovie was and is still king,

The third one is that you cannot use the word stuck for Esan because she is an Edoid but you can use for Itsekiri, if you don't get this point, then you are showing symptoms of low IQ

UGBE634:
There is no time I hid that, my paternal grandmother is from there. When it comes to Esan history, you are a novice

If there is anyone daft here in history and organization here it is you, how did the many nonsense you wrote relate to what we are talking about

I was trying to establish three points

one of them was this

That Irrua never went beyond a soft power, more like a spiritual head, if you have as much as 2 percent of knowledge of Esan history, you will know this

The second was That the Original meaning of Ojie/Ogie/Ovie was and is still king,

The third one is that you cannot use the word stuck for Esan because she is an Edoid but you can use for Itsekiri, if you don't get this point, then you are showing symptoms of low IQ

You have started fighting yourself again this early morning.. well it's a normal thing for aggrieved and self hating people to behave like you are doing now.. kpele oooo

davidnazee:


You have started fighting yourself again this early morning.. well it's a normal thing for aggrieved and self hating people to behave like you are doing now.. kpele oooo

I am not the insulting type, he subtly insulted me in his other post, I had to return the energy. An energy not retuned especially the negative one might affect you. I respected his person here but you cannot write in that manner to me because I respect you, I will not return it, I match energy for energy

davidnazee:


You have started fighting yourself again this early morning.. well it's a normal thing for aggrieved and self hating people to behave like you are doing now.. kpele oooo

My brother, somebody who spews all kinds of things about the palace, who be me?
Abeg pay no heed.

In enlightening and straightening distortions perpetrated since 1897/1914, you have to expect and deal with oppositions from "within" and without.

Distortions don't become a big issue until those within do it.

UGBE634:
I am not the insulting type, he subtly insulted me in his other post, I had to return the energy. An energy not retuned especially the negative one might affect you. I respected his person here but you cannot write in that manner to me because I respect you, I will not return it, I match energy for energy

He was educating you not insulting you. AreaFada is a man of vast knowledge in historical matters and its state of play. You should learn from him, you will be a better person.

AreaFada2:

My brother, somebody who spews all kinds of things about the palace, who be me?
Abeg pay no heed.

I feel sorry for him sha. He seeks answers but his mind his clouded with confusion and it limits his understanding..

AreaFada2:

My brother, somebody who spews all kinds of things about the palace, who be me?
Abeg pay no heed.

You are a human being, give respect and you will get. Go and check my previous argument with you and see if you will see any insult. I dare you you cannot write to me in that manner and not expect a return of energy

davidnazee:


He was educating you not insulting you. AreaFada is a man of vast knowledge in historical matters and its state of play. You should learn from him, you will be a better person.

I can now agree that your knowledge of evolution of royal traditions, even of Benin history, is not that deep. Or your personal agenda is totally different.


If you truly know Benin history even a little bit, did more reading and research

If you don't see anything wrong with those words, then you are daft.

The respect I give him is because he was one of the first Benin men here, not of knowledge, my argument are there, it is not hidden, it is for posterity and the outside world to judge who is more knowledgeable, who has more IQ, more logic and better spirit of discernment. It is not a thing of pride, it is the truth. There is only one Bini man here, I respect his IQ level, physics

davidnazee:


I feel sorry for him sha. He seeks answers but his mind his clouded with confusion and it limits his understanding..

You see, my best teachers have always little kids. I kinda envy their teachers. The piercing and spontaneous questions kids ask make me think. The top 2 to 5% brightest young adults in the population, by academic performance, that I have been privileged to mentor have not inspired me as much as kids. Because kids have no resistance to acquiring knowledge. No pretence, no ego trip.

AreaFada2:

Ah! We finally got there at the end. You should have said that earlier. Your arguments now make more sense. It would probably make more sense for your to create an Esan history thread to discuss how Benin people and Oba are strangers in Igodomigodo land.

Thanks and goodbye.

The Oba and his family are the strangers alone. I am autochthonous Bini from Ugo, Bini people cannot be strangers in their land, I have always opined that not all Binis migrated down here as opined by Ignorant Esan folks, Aside nairaland, I also have a youtube account where I contest this argument with them. Infact nobody has fought that Idea more than myself here. I challenge you to screenshot comment of anybody that has fought that Idea here

, you can check up my argument with Igboid and Atigba

So it is never about the Esan talk as I am not Esan, infact I have more than enough previous screenshot that contradicts what you opined above

UGBE634:
The Oba and his family are the strangers alone. I am autochthonous Bini from Ugo, Bini people cannot be strangers in their land, I have always opined that not all Binis migrated down here as opined by Ignorant Esan folks, Aside nairaland, I also have a youtube account where I contest this argument with them. Infact nobody has fought that Idea more than myself here. I challenge you to screenshot comment of anybody that has fought that Idea here

, you can check up my argument with Igboid and Atigba

So it is never about the Esan talk as I am not Esan, infact I have more than enough previous screenshot that contradicts what you opined above

No one would hear, you won't go far with your agenda because you can't even win us here in the first place
You accuse us of a occultic reasoning which is very unreasonable of you

You can't even backup your claims with article or even old written record or substantial artefact yet you want to be heard you want us to hear you because you put oral story's together to draw stupid conclusions who does that at the age if not Ugbe

You're now revealing your agenda gradually
My question is why are you doing what you're doing, are you paid are you a yoruba man, did the benin or oba offend your people


If you're looking for the truth then you have to pay the price by dedicating your time to not just read or listen to oral history also paying for DNA testing if you have to, don't just come and say rubbish and accuse people of occultic reasoning, before you came to nairaland we have been here arguing about the authencity of of the Obaship stool and we have gotten enough insight....that our oba is a fully blooded edo

Because you saw scattered villages of yoruba settlement in benin like they are also not scattered settlement of other tribe like Itsekiri, urhobo and even ijaw around benin City you began to draw your fallacious reasoning of oromiyan from it

You assume ososomaye is a yoruba idol without no prove even fellow yorubas are not making such unfound claims only you, can't you see your desperation has made you shift away from reality

Please take yourself out of nairaland and fall back to YouTube when you're ready we will let you have your voice

AreaFada2
Samuk
Davidnazee