Donjazet2:


You are listing what you believe is a problem but you are not listing solutions..

As for me personally, I'm interpreting your post as call to conservatism as against modern liberalism which is a bit weird coming from an atheist who is by default supposed to be liberal by experience.

Your post can even be construed as an attack on gay people seeing as they don't conform to the "traditional marriage setting". Am I right in these my conclusion of your post's?

Again I ask you to present a solution to the perceived problem you've diagnosed.

He outrightly presented the solution. Outrightly!!

Do you even read? If you did you won't ask the question. Or the post is too complex you can't even understand?!

Donjazet2:


I'm very sad hearing this response from you. Check my past post, I was the one advising you to shun critics of your videos and only take the constructive ones.
I personally watch most of your videos because you seem quite knowledgeable but clearly you have a very thin skin..

I read your post and analysed it, I wasn't rude or combative in my response to you and even told you I might be wrong in my interpretation.

Rather than correct me where you thought I was wrong, you are replying me very rudely?

Do you think that's how healthy conversations are held?
Or else you didn't want to converse but just make a point whether you are right or wrong.
We learn everyday. You may be onto something but your post wasn't as expressive enough as you think.
Quite sad, nigga.

. Quit frankly no rudeness in that post

100% true. The western world is already showing signs of irreversible decay

Who told you singles or divorced parents don't have time for their children? Many children brought up by single parents are among great people in the society, so you're making a mistake if you despise them. Single or married to must do your part making every effort to train your kids and allow harmony in your home.

atheistandproud:
Seen and ignored.

Ad hominem is the refuge of the intellectually stunted.

I love that you specified your post is to a Nigerian audience. Wonderful one!
Sadly the people up there you argue with are Western, woke wannabes so your post repulses them.

Sadly this conversation you put up is even very much the topic of discuss in the Western world today too. What does Jordan Peterson, Putin, Andrew Tate, Donald Trump, even Elon Musk have in common?
They all talk about and agree about your very points. They are all recent converts to conservatism.

But there is nothing wrong with agreeing you are a conservative, after all is said and done conservatives will be the last standing on this earth.

Welcome to the family!

GloriousGbola:


Obama was raised in a single parent home. Trump was raised in a 'proper' home

There is more nuance to this.

Most of the 'traditional' values that you are celebrating have not empirically translated to a better Nigeria.

You mentioned the USA. There's very good data on the results of single parenthood. The vast majority of people in prison, murderers, school dropouts, drug addicts and on and on...are products of single parent homes.

Belonging to or being raised in a single parent family is the strongest predictor of poverty in the USA...it's a stronger predictor than university education, large family inheritance and race or ethnic origin. That's factual and most people are ignorant of this information. The joke among economists, demographers and such these days is that marriage in the USA is now an elite institution

And this may surprise the OP, families with cohabiting parents - who are not legally or religiously married - are just as likely as single parent families to be poor. And nobody knows why, but that's the data.

Out of the hundreds of millions of people in this country, of course there will be notable exceptions. Anyway this is a very dangerous topic. To each their own, everyone is justified in their own choices.

Please did Arsenal play this weekend? That's a better topic.

Have a good day.

IbeOkehie:


You mentioned the USA. There's very good data on the results of single parenthood. The vast majority of people in prison, murderers, school dropouts, drug addicts and on and on...are products of single parent homes.

Belonging to or being raised in a single parent family is the strongest predictor of poverty in the USA...it's a stronger predictor than university education, large family inheritance and race or ethnic origin. That's factual and most people are ignorant of this information. The joke among economists, demographers and such these days is that marriage in the USA is now an elite institution

And this may surprise the OP, families with cohabiting parents - who are not legally or religiously married - are just as likely as single parent families to be poor. And nobody knows why, but that's the data.

Out of the hundreds of millions of people in this country, of course there will be notable exceptions. Anyway this is a very dangerous topic. To each their own, everyone is justified in their own choices.

Please did Arsenal play this weekend? That's a better topic.

Have a good day.

We have always had armed robbers, killer cops, greedy politicians, cultists, and terrorists.

Where did they come from?

70% of this country is people living below the poverty line. Where did these poor people come from?


But you know the biggest indictment of this ridiculous theory? The army of budding Nigerian youth misogynists raised in traditional family units. In spite of the so called traditional family unit they are raised in, they hate women and will justify celebrate and defend violence against women of all ages.

They somehow have bad things to say about all women except their mothers

Change is inevitable. Everybody accepts that living things adapt without caring to find out the word means change.

Very much on point. Don't know why some here are kicking against obvious truth.

GloriousGbola:


Obama was raised in a single parent home. Trump was raised in a 'proper' home

There is more nuance to this.

Most of the 'traditional' values that you are celebrating have not empirically translated to a better Nigeria.

See what I saw
I stand to be corrected

atheistandproud:


You seem to be all over the place in a quest to debunk, so I cannot clearly see the point that you're trying to make.

I wrote about absentee parents but I guess that clearly went over your head.



Imagine equating corruption and greed to bad parenting. Seeing your username, why am I even surprised?

You're the one who's trying to simplify a complex issue so that that you can do a debunk and go on a non-existent victory march feeling smug for yourself.

Seeing as it is that I have no intention of entertaining your shenanigans, this is my last reply to you. Peace.

His name depict someone born from"respectable" single baby mama family

So nairaland can be this mature. Wow

LocalStandard1:


Sorry for quoting everything but I have to.

Never you answer that lady! She knows absolutely nothing about live just extremely woke garbage which she spew on a steady.

What you wrote here is absolutely true. I am a leaving breathing experiment.

Sometimes I thank God for not letting me meet my mother alive I would have made sure she regretted having outside wedlock. It is lonely and it is painful. I am living it!

Every child must have the privilege of knowing his father, every child must have the opportunity of being born and grow in a standard home. Selfish, self-centered generation of today like that lady will disagree.

That's wickedness! Take it from someone living the experience.

I'm sorry about your experiences

shantti:


See what I saw
I stand to be corrected

Don't bother, he'll just shift goalposts.

Like I said earlier, it takes a village to raise a child but in the absence of that, 2 would be the minimum.

Take a good look at all the mass shooters in the US, look at their parenting and a very disturbing pattern will emerge.

Should we wait till it happens here? Oh wait a minute, it's already happening just not on that scale but we will get there. Eventually.

shantti:
So nairaland can be this mature. Wow

Lol, yeah I guess.

Donjazet2:


You are listing what you believe is a problem but you are not listing solutions..

As for me personally, I'm interpreting your post as call to conservatism as against modern liberalism which is a bit weird coming from an atheist who is by default supposed to be liberal by experience.

Your post can even be construed as an attack on gay people seeing as they don't conform to the "traditional marriage setting". Am I right in these my conclusion of your post's?

Again I ask you to present a solution to the perceived problem you've diagnosed.

I don't know how you read gay into all he posted but so what if he attacked gay people?



And is there a law somewhere that says an Atheist cannot be conservative?

harmony75:
Who told you singles or divorced parents don't have time for their children? Many children brought up by single parents are among great people in the society, so you're making a mistake if you despise them. Single or married to must do your part making every effort to train your kids and allow harmony in your home.

I have the academic and peer reviewed data to back my position. I look forward to yours good sir.

Intelligent piece, I have been pondering about this, the erosion of the family ties, and unit in America and South Africa which brings about baby mama syndrome, is the cause of spiralling gun violence in America and south Africa, without morals a people is doomed. The promotion of homosexuality by the Democrats in America further destroys family unit and ties, this will spell doom for the world. The Op was apt, we have been around Nigeria for multiple decades, those of us born in 80's know the stark difference in morals of the youths of yester years and youths of these days, every young girl is proud to be a whoore, a corner has really been turned, it doesn't look good.

Crumbian:



I don't know how you read gay into all he posted but so what if he attacked gay people?



And is there a law somewhere that says an Atheist cannot be conservative?

At least you can see why I refused to engage many people in a quest to keep the thread sane. Everyone has an agenda it seems.

ednut1:
100% true. The western world is already showing signs of irreversible decay

The only thing making them stay afloat is that they still value any individual that is highly talented, gifted, genius no matter what part of the earth where the person originated from whether black, yellow, red, it doesn't matter. See Obama as USA president. Also the Current UK PM.

THE moment they stop supporting innovation and people with capacity, the decline into oblivion will be accelerated 10 folds.


But here in Nigeria! people that have capacity are frustrated and relegated.

atheistandproud:
The collapse of the family structure in society will always predate the collapse of a society. This is usually one of the signs to look out for. In communities where the family structure has completely broken down, society deteriorates with it.

You can't fix this one with a swoosh of a magic wand.(donotcopy) This is because this problem is a oroborosian one. The breakdown of the family structure exacerbates the breakdown of society which in turn causes the family structure to breakdown even faster.

In Nigeria here, with the introduction of celebrity culture and the internet going into full swing at some point in the mid 2000s, it only served to worsen and spread(donotcopy) one of the worst tendencies that we have...the worship of money.

Throw Instagram in several years later and a corner has been turned. The first victims of this were unfortunately young people. The ladies in particular who were bombarded with images (usually enhanced or fake) of an unattainable life led by the 1%. They soon imbibed it and made it their standard.

Instagram celebrities like Linda Ikeji also added fuel to the fire. If he doesn't earn in dollars or in 6 figures, dump him. If he doesn't have a car, he's not your class(donotcopy). If he doesn't this, if he doesn't that etc. Soon the young men will fall victim and would now look to attain these standards set by Instagram celebrities and enforced by women. This is on top of the already bogus culture of bride price that extorts men.

If that wasn't bad enough, even people who were already married would choose to impose these standards on their long time spouses, both male and female.(donotcopy) Marriage is no longer about teamwork, it's now about getting one's way. If you don't have your way or you're not happy, DIVORCE!!!

With the hunt for money in full swing and a new phenomenon of divorce rapidly tearing through marriages, there's a whole generation of kids that do not know the comfort and stability of a 2-parent home. The single parents are too tired from working that they simply do not have the energy to parent their kids.

With poor leadership, ever disappearing jobs, zero opportunities etc.(donotcopy) There's only one way to reach these standards. Crime!

In many communities the glorification of crime, discouragement and suspicion of education, absenteeism of fathers (and mothers too), fewer opportunities, impoverished neighbourhoods etc. has become the norm(donotcopy).

Yahoo boys (internet fraudsters), 419-ers (local fraudsters), kidnappers, armed robbers, violent cultists, drug-dealers, ritualists, organ harvesters etc. have become role models for children whose parents have all but abdicated their responsibility.

Without the family structure to act as a buffer between these impressionable young minds and the cancer of societal vices, the hope of any future family structure for future generations tanks even further.

Because of the above, all of these things are factors that lead to a sort of trap that is very difficult to break free of because the young ones are, to all intents and purposes, born into it and will probably never escape it.

Well written. The family is the bedrock of every society.

Just this evening, I bought some vegetables, I bought two bundles, but the seller collected money for only one. While walking away I looked at my receipt and saw the mistake. I went back and told him about his omission. He was grateful and said to a woman nearby who witnessed what happened, he said "his parents raised him well".

This statement resonates with your article. A child is like an empty drive which saves data from whatever he or she experiences as he or she grows subconsciously and consciously, this defines the character and behaviour of the child. If the family is absent to imbibe the good values and discipline, the vices of the pleasures of life will occupy all the spaces.

Kobojunkie:
Wait a second.... Why does it seem as though the OP assumes family is defined by marriage, and divorce an enemy?

Read what he is saying, he is looking at the big picture. The Op is not condemning anything, he is talking about where we are heading, he is painting the picture of things, don't matter whether you agree with him or not, but what he is saying is fact. Morals are fast declining due to destruction of the fabric of society, which is family unit. Homosexuality, immorality, and other vices he mentioned are what is eroding the family structure. He is absolutely right whether you think divorce is right or wrong.

Kobojunkie:
1. I grew up around many who were raised in one parent homes after the other paremt decided to abscond and many of them grew up well. In fact, a good number of Nigerians, as I have come to learn, grow up in these settings because culturally these unofficial divorces are an accepted norm. So single parent homes have been with us since even the time of our ancestors.

2. We all have wishes but reality is what reality is. Single parent homes are nothing new and will continue so long as humans are humans. Folks who lived in such homes formerly lived in shame during the time of our ancestors. They are flesh and blood like you and I, so, why should they have to live in shame because they were abandoned along the way?

3. Again, single parent homes where a norm even back in the 80s..

Your own Nigeria must be in an alternate universe for you to make that "single parents were a norm even back in the 80s" claim.


Do you even know what a "norm" is?

atheistandproud:


Don't bother, he'll just shift goalposts.

Like I said earlier, it takes a village to raise a child but in the absence of that, 2 would be the minimum.

Take a good look at all the mass shooters in the US, look at their parenting and a very disturbing pattern will emerge.

Should we wait till it happens here? Oh wait a minute, it's already happening just not on that scale but we will get there. Eventually.

yeah u r right.
What do u think on the issue of not flogging kids. Do u think it contribute to all the anomalies in America.

atheistandproud:


At least you can see why I refused to engage many people in a quest to keep the thread sane. Everyone has an agenda it seems.

Yes, most of them are selfish, but you are looking at the big picture. Defining the future of our world as per how we are living presently. So many smelly gays here, I wonder what benefit the world derive from smelly gays. Gays are simple minded dummies, who only care about satisfying their depraved tendencies, which is as a result of psychological and mental depravity, gays need straightening out not encouragement on their animal behavior. Gays don't care the damage they are doing to the natural order, and destruction this practice will cause for the family unit and ties, which is the bedrock of society. Gays are small minded dummies, we must not allow dummies who can't control their animal tendencies show us how to live in our world, and mess with our sensibilities.

Kobojunkie may be onto something though, just not presenting his/her case right.

so you can imagine how much families has collapsed seeing how over collapsed Nigeria is

I am all for a two-parent home when possible. I said when possible cause I believe the peace of mind of both the parents and the well-being of the children have far more higher priority than anything else. Of course, parents sometimes make the sacrifice of staying together just for the children. But there should be a limit to that cause a two-parent family where domestic violence is the order of the day is still far worse than a one-parent family. And a frustrated father or mother is hardly ever a good influence on the children. Therefore, when divorce is the only answer, I say take it. People don't usually get married with the plan of divorcing later. Divorce is like burial. Nobody likes burial, doctors do thier best to avoid it. But you don't shy away from doing it when the bucket has been kicked.

Meanwhile, the gender dichotomy in our society is a major contributing factor to issue in question. We must learn to respect each other and manage our expectations. You pointed out how ladies contribute to the problem with thier unrealistic expectations and even exemplified with Linda Ikeji. And that's perfectly true. However, it's also worth mentioning that our men have unrealistic expectations of women as well. It's as if we sometimes forget we are products of the same society and that these ladies don't fall from heaven. Men have evolved over time. But somehow, we still want our women to be like our mothers who spent thier lives cooking, washing, cleaning and taking care of the home including their husbands. That's not practical cause they've evolved too, and we need to learn to give them space to dream and pursue thier dreams just like we do. Linda Ikeji aside, we have many male celebrities who have wholeheartedly subscribed to the baby-daddy trend, and these are some people's role models.

That said, I believe the issues you mentioned only serve to usher in the next level of civilization. When you realize that your non working wife will take some of your money in the case of divorce, you'd insist she works the same number of hours as yourself while you also partake in home keeping. When women work hard and earn as men do, standard of living will go up. When standard of living goes up, cost of living will also go up. When cost of living goes up, it becomes difficult for an individual to run a family regardless of gender. When it's difficult for an individual to run a family, then one partner must pay child support to the other. When you consider the idea of paying child support while still not having the opportunity to watch your child grow up, you might end up figuring better ways of resolving your issues instead of divorcing your spouse.

shantti:


yeah u r right.
What do u think on the issue of not flogging kids. Do u think it contribute to all the anomalies in America.

I am against FLOGGING OF KIDS because many people

1. don't know how to
2. overdo it
3. only do it when they're angry and transfer aggression.

The problem is not the removal of caning, see the language I used right?

Caning or other sorts of corporal punishments represent consequences. The aim was to teach kids that actions have consequences.

The removal of the consequences of bad actions is where the issue lies. Even here in Nigeria too, in 2018 I swore I would never teach in secondary schools again when a mother came to defend her indefensible child who brazenly broke school rules.

If a child thinks that their actions have no consequences, what do think they'll do? They'll explore more and push the envelope until you see stories like a 7 year old shooting the teacher because she put him in time out.

GloriousGbola:



We have always had armed robbers, killer cops, greedy politicians, cultists, and terrorists.

Where did they come from?

70% of this country is people living below the poverty line. Where did these poor people come from?


But you know the biggest indictment of this ridiculous theory? The army of budding Nigerian youth misogynists raised in traditional family units. In spite of the so called traditional family unit they are raised in the hate women and will justify celebrate and defend violence against women of all ages.

They somehow have bad things to say about all women except their mothers

You mentioned TWO Presidents of the USA so I used well known conclusions drawn from data from data in that country. You can't dispute the data. It is what it is.

Perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to why the negative tendencies you're pointing out exist in Nigeria. I have my own theories.

In the USA single parent families tend to be poor.

In Nigeria the vast majority of the population is poor, including traditional families. This is the overall controlling environment, debilitating poverty and DESPERATION.

Poverty tends to produce anti-social, self destructive and delinquent behavior.

Though most Nigerians on Nairaland claim that all Nigerians are rich and all Americans are poor...evidenced by the fact Americans have to borrow to make significant purchases.



So it's a conundrum I suppose. Seriously, I've given you the answer. Poverty has turned the vast majority of Nigerians into immoral, selfish, VENGEFUL and anti-social people....both men and women and most especially the university graduates.

Personality disorder is real, the ability to shift goal post at will, depending on where the wind blows per week, is a constant reoccurance for them boys here

All of a sudden, baby mamaism isn't the IN thing anymore to nl resident males, I thought y'all said it is better to have kids outside marriage than marrying Nigerian ladies?

What happened to "Marriage doesn't benefit men only women" regular banter on here? I guess sensibility chooses when it will manifest once in a blue moon, before going back to default daftness and senselessness that is rampant for y'all

Bleh......

etrange:
I am all for a two-parent home when possible. I said when possible cause I believe the peace of mind of both the parents and the well-being of the children have far more higher priority than anything else. Of course, parents sometimes make the sacrifice of staying together just for the children. But there should be a limit to that cause a two-parent family where domestic violence is the order of the day is still far worse than a one-parent family. And a frustrated father or mother is hardly ever a good influence on the children. Therefore, when divorce is the only answer, I say take it. People don't usually get married with the plan of divorcing later. Divorce is like burial. Nobody likes burial, doctors do thier best to avoid it. But you don't shy away from doing it when the bucket has been kicked.

Meanwhile, the gender dichotomy in our society is a major contributing factor to issue in question. We must learn to respect each other and manage our expectations. You pointed out how ladies contribute to the problem with thier unrealistic expectations and even exemplified with Linda Ikeji. And that's perfectly true. However, it's also worth mentioning that our men have unrealistic expectations of women as well. It's as if we sometimes forget we are products of the same society and that these ladies don't fall from heaven. Men have evolved over time. But somehow, we still want our women to be like our mothers who spent thier lives cooking, washing, cleaning and taking care of the home including their husbands. That's not practical cause they've evolved too, and we need to learn to give them space to dream and pursue thier dreams just like we do. Linda Ikeji aside, we have many male celebrities who have wholeheartedly subscribed to the baby-daddy trend and these are some people's role models.

That said, I believe the issues you mentioned only serve to usher in the next level of civilization. When you realize that your non working wife will take some of your money in the case of divorce, you'd insist she works the same number of hours as yourself while you also partake in home keeping. When women work hard and earn as men do, standard of living will go up. When standard of living goes up, cost of living will also go up. When cost of living goes up, it becomes difficult for an individual to run a family regardless of gender. When it's difficult for an individual to run a family, then one partner must pay child support to the other. When you consider the idea of paying child support while still not having the opportunity to watch your child grow up, you might end up figuring better ways of resolving your issues instead of divorcing your spouse.

An excellent submission.

As a man in my early 30s, I am very grateful that I didn't marry in my 20s. I would certainly be divorced by now.

I admit it. Men also have unrealistic expectations of women which is totally wrong. We need a reset but that ship has long sailed.