GreenandGold:
The SANDF's G6 Howitzer

I think our artillery formation is quite balanced, both in terms of utility and numbers:

Pic1: G6 Rhino x 43;
Pic2: Bateleur MLRS x 25;
Pic3: G5 towed x 69;
Pic4: T5 x 6

Lurker4Long:


I think our artillery formation is quite balanced, both in terms of utility and numbers:

Pic1: G6 Rhino x 43;
Pic2: Bateleur MLRS x 25;
Pic3: G5 towed x 69;
Pic4: T5 x 6

There are also 25 Valkiri MLRS

jl115:

There are also 25 Valkiri MLRS

Another one that fell off a Cuban truck in Angola

Coming back to the spy balloon saga.

I was actually surprised by the visible amount of contrails left behind by the F22... it screams "I'm here, I'm not trying to hide".. to be honest, with the right AI software fitted in ground radars, this thing could be tracked and shot down.

jl115:

There are also 25 Valkiri MLRS

I think those have been taken out of service.
I find it interesting that people talk of UAVs as spotters and target designators for artillery as some new thing.
We upgraded our arty FCS and took the Vulture into service in 2006, for that express purpose!

Lurker4Long:

Pic2: Bateleur MLRS x 25;

I remember a Russian blogger who was invited to witness an SANDF capability demo some years ago writing sh#t about the demo and he specially picked on the Bateleur/Valkiri MLRS, he went to point out how the Russians have since advanced .... its 2023, the Russians can't even hold a line without falling apart and their "advanced" MLRs are a no-show.

War is a b#tch, I hope he still writes those sh#tty articles

GreenandGold:
Coming back to the spy balloon saga.

I was actually surprised by the visible amount of contrails left behind by the F22... it screams "I'm here, I'm not trying to hide".. to be honest, with the right AI software fitted in ground radars, this thing could be tracked and shot down.

In that case, you don't even need a radar. A high speed camera can track an F22 without contrails. How do you think pictures of the F-22 in flight are taken?

However, goodluck to whatever radar is waiting to visually track an F-22 before engaging. It would be a pile of burning trash long before the F-22 appears in view.

Nemesis4you:


If u worried about alien invasion

Rest assured we have a perfect countermeasure

You just gotta love Indian comedy

Faithful007:
In that case, you don't even need a radar. A high speed camera can track an F22 without contrails. How do you think pictures of the F-22 in flight are taken?

However, goodluck to whatever radar is waiting to visually track an F-22 before engaging. It would be a pile of burning trash long before the F-22 appears in view.

A visually tracking "radar" does not emit any radiation, so anti-radiation missiles would not even work.... also, you may use multiple on the ground to cancel-out the possibility of one being spooked (which is unlikely without radiation emission).

Visual tracking works not just when the aircraft is over your setup, it would pick up an object over the horizon, giving SAMs the right time to engage.

There's a whole published research about this topic dating back as early as 2008

GreenandGold:


A visually tracking "radar" does not emit any radiation, so anti-radiation missiles would not even work.... also, you may use multiple on the ground to cancel-out the possibility of one being spooked (which is unlikely without radiation emission).

Visual tracking works not just when the aircraft is over your setup, it would pick up an object over the horizon, giving SAMs the right time to engage.

There's a whole published research about this topic dating back as early as 2008

I totally understand your point. At this stage, it is not yet feasible. There is a lot of research on it but countermeasures for visual tracking are still easy to develop. The US navy and army currently use the Phalanx CIWS and C-RAM which make use of similar tech (Infrared). But cameras are very limited in range and will not track fighters accurately especially when proper camouflage is used.

Also a big issue is that passive cameras have no return and thus the position and range of the target cannot be determined from a single platform. The system will only give you a 3D direction (Azimuth and Elevation) and that's all. A bigger issue is that while tracking might be possible, detection will be very poor. A radar can scan the sky in seconds while the camera based tracker will have to analyze every tiny grid of the sky to maintain high accuracy. A secondary system will be needed to hasten localization. Sound may help here.

Lastly, let's assume that all this are not a problem, the missile system will still have to guide a missile to the target. All that tech will not fit into a fire and forget missile. In that case, the fighter jet will detect the laser lock or the radar signal and thus the surface to air battery position is given away.

Faithful007:
You just gotta love Ind... comedy

I don't like ind... comedy, one has to be literally brain dead to even watch them , same with the bollyshit

As for American comedy I like, straightforward, no forcing of laughter, it's genuine

Anyways u fan of serial sniffer ?

Doesn't he creep u out given he sniffs kids ?

Well if u like him, not my business, especially given today, he went gaga claiming an Indi... company placed a historic order which would lead to 1 million American jobs in over 44 states

GreenandGold:


A visually tracking "radar" does not emit any radiation, so anti-radiation missiles would not even work.... also, you may use multiple on the ground to cancel-out the possibility of one being spooked (which is unlikely without radiation emission).

Visual tracking works not just when the aircraft is over your setup, it would pick up an object over the horizon, giving SAMs the right time to engage.

There's a whole published research about this topic dating back as early as 2008

1st pic with the buildings

3 well spread sensitive receivers with good enough algorithms and juice to process it will detect and pinpoint any aircraft including stealth aircrafts with reasonable accuracy and none of them will even know that they were detected

The balloon killer

Flanker:
The balloon killer

Badger set for public debut at Armed Forces Day

An upbeat Mike Kgobe, interim Denel chief executive, has let personnel at the State-owned defence and technology conglomerate know seven Badgers – “our very own infantry combat vehicle (ICV)” – will be in the landward force line-up for Armed Forces Day (AFD) in Richards Bay.

He writes of his “great joy” which comes with the long-delayed Ratel replacement making its public debut at a day when “the South African population honours the men and women of the SA National Defence Force (SANDF) by affirming their support and gratitude to them”.

An Armscor presentation to the Joint Standing Committee on Defence (JSCD) last year revealed that Hoefyster is more or less presently paused with parts of the development phase at various stages of completion. They are 72% of hull and turret items common to all variants; 84% of the lead – Section – variant; 83% of the Fire Support variant; 73% of the Command variant; 44% of the Mortar variant and 53% of the Missile variant.

Completed as per phase two (industrialisation and production) are locally developed 30 mm CamGuns and ammunition; 60 mm long range mortar bombs; 15 Patria vehicle platforms; 64 training simulators and four pre-production models of the Section variant.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/badger-set-for-public-debut-at-armed-forces-day/?referrer=newsletter

Armed Forces Day 2023 to be the biggest yet – SANDF

The South African National Defence Force (SANDF) is aiming to make this year’s Armed Forces Day commemorations, in Richard’s Bay, the largest and most successful to date. Over 8 000 troops will be involved in what is also being used as a large-scale force deployment exercise.

This is according to Brigadier General Andries Mahapa, Director Defence Corporate Communication, when briefing the media aboard the frigate SAS Mendi in Richard’s Bay on Tuesday.

The South African Navy is organising this year’s event, which is centred around Richard’s Bay and the uMhlathuze municipality (the other cities considered for Armed Forces Day 2023 were East London and Saldanha).

The Chief of the SANDF, General Rudzani Maphwanya, said Armed Forces Day (AFD) started out a decade ago with the purpose of bringing the SANDF to the people, and has grown since the first edition was held in Atteridgeville when a single company’s worth of soldiers took part. Now, a brigade size force is involved this year, with over 8 000 personnel deployed along with four Navy ships, dozens of aircraft, and hundreds of vehicles.

The SANDF, with Armed Forces Day, purports to, among other things honour serving members and pay tribute to soldiers who paid the ultimate price and lost their lives in the line of duty, such as Corporal Tebogo Edwin Radebe, killed in Mozambique while serving with SAMIM, and more recently, Flight Sergeant Vusi Mabena, who was killed by a sniper’s bullet in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

From 16 to 19 February, four navy ships (the frigate SAS Mendi, hydrographic survey vessel SAS Protea, inshore patrol vessel SAS King Sekhukhune I and inshore patrol craft SAS Tekwane) will be open to the public, from 9-15:00.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/featured/armed-forces-day-2023-to-be-the-biggest-yet-sandf/

*Pics from a previous AFD

GreenandGold:
Coming back to the spy balloon saga.

I was actually surprised by the visible amount of contrails left behind by the F22... it screams "I'm here, I'm not trying to hide".. to be honest, with the right AI software fitted in ground radars, this thing could be tracked and shot down.

Technically, the F-22s were never totally "invisible" to radar.

Faithful007:
I totally understand your point. At this stage, it is not yet feasible. There is a lot of research on it but countermeasures for visual tracking are still easy to develop. The US navy and army currently use the Phalanx CIWS and C-RAM which make use of similar tech (Infrared). But cameras are very limited in range and will not track fighters accurately especially when proper camouflage is used.

Also a big issue is that passive cameras have no return and thus the position and range of the target cannot be determined from a single platform. The system will only give you a 3D direction (Azimuth and Elevation) and that's all. A bigger issue is that while tracking might be possible, detection will be very poor. A radar can scan the sky in seconds while the camera based tracker will have to analyze every tiny grid of the sky to maintain high accuracy. A secondary system will be needed to hasten localization. Sound may help here.

Lastly, let's assume that all this are not a problem, the missile system will still have to guide a missile to the target. All that tech will not fit into a fire and forget missile. In that case, the fighter jet will detect the laser lock or the radar signal and thus the surface to air battery position is given away.

Check how Tesla uses cameras instead of LIDAR to scan the environment and create a full trackable 3D presentation with direction, speed and distance... so, this is already commercially available and deployed in the real world. The question is not a "how" but a why not?

A physical communication line like optic fibre would need to be used between the mobile sensors and the SAM launcher. Iraq used a similar radar communication system in the 80s.

The missile itself may need to be fitted with the camera-based sensor as well which would operate on its own without communicating with the rest of the battery. The system would need to launch multiple of those SAMs to increase hit probability.... of course, the mobile launcher always vacates the location after launch to prevent falling victim to follow-up aircrafts like the EA-18G Growler and F35.

Pic 1) A 3D environment representation created by Tesla cameras and its AI
Pic 2) A proposed camera-based "radar" system mounted on an existing platform

GreenandGold:


Check how Tesla uses cameras instead of LIDAR to scan the environment and create a full trackable 3D presentation with direction, speed and distance... so, this is already commercially available and deployed in the real world. The question is not a "how" but a why not?

A physical communication line like optic fibre would need to be used between the mobile sensors and the SAM launcher. Iraq used a similar radar communication system in the 80s.

The missile itself may need to be fitted with the camera-based sensor as well which would operate on its own without communicating with the rest of the battery. The system would need to launch multiple of those SAMs to increase hit probability.... of course, the mobile launcher always vacates the location after launch to prevent falling victim to follow-up aircrafts like the EA-18G Growler and F35.

Pic 1) A 3D environment representation created by Tesla cameras and its AI
Pic 2) A proposed camera-based "radar" system mounted on an existing platform

Possible does not mean practical. There are several easy ways to spoof optics. Fixing lights under the aircraft might just invalidate the entire solution. Besides, tracking is difficult with the altitude the fighter is. Dectection is even worse. Imagine scanning the entire sky with a camera. FYI, the US Army tried researched this and abandoned it after a while. Maybe we might see a resurgence in this age of AI, idk.

Lurker4Long:

I think those have been taken out of service.
I find it interesting that people talk of UAVs as spotters and target designators for artillery as some new thing.
We upgraded our arty FCS and took the Vulture into service in 2006, for that express purpose!

not out of service, just in storage

@Lurker4Long

The French have the perfect vehicle we want (as usual)

....to go against our own

GreenandGold:
@Luker4Long

The French have the perfect vehicle we want (as usual)

As do the Belgians over at John Cockerill:

"The chassis of the Cockerill i-X is based on the design of an undisclosed US rally car manufacturer that was developed especially for the Dakar race. The hydropneumatic suspension of the chassis has been modified by John Cockerill to increase high-speed mobility in all-terrain conditions. It can also be fitted with a controlled height mechanism. Having excellent mobility on any type of ground and achieving unrivaled speeds in defense theatres of operation, the Cockerill i-X is the first land vehicle to embody the DNA of the interceptor. The vehicle can be powered by a thermal engine developing 750 hp or an 800 hp hybrid thermal-electric engine. It can reach a maximum road speed of 200 km/h and 160 km/h in desert conditions with a maximum cruising range of 600 km. With the thermal engine, the i-X can reach a 100 km/h speed in less than 6 seconds and has a braking distance of 40 m at 100 km/h. In fully electric mode the cruising range is limited to up 30 km but provides a tactical advantage with thermal and acoustic signature reduction.

"The Cockerill i-X features unique onboard fully digitized Man-Machine Interface sighting and observation systems including a cockpit screen allowing the driver to pull up all necessary information, while the commander has a high-resolution screen providing the images captured by the French company Safran Electronics & Defense and the sight of the turret. The Man-Machine Interface of the Cockerill i-X Interceptor is based on the Cockerill ® Smart Helmet, which is worn by the operator, and features an intelligent multimodal engine allowing the management of information of the weapon system and interactions that will be visual, auditory, and vocal. All this while ensuring a measured control of the cognitive load of the operator during his mission, by using an interface that will be as intuitive as possible. The interface is no longer seen as a «passive» device but becomes intelligent, efficient, immersive and uses the natural interaction capabilities of the operator, in a more ambitious context of use than usual (speed of action, multi-target, rapid movement of the vehicle). The weapon system of the vehicle also integrates high-performance sensors to collect combat data and to provide 360° situational awareness. The data processing is done via intelligent embedded algorithms based on Artificial Intelligence to perform threat Detection-Identification-Location and Assessment, enhanced decision aid to the operator. The onboard communication systems offer teaming and adaptive cooperation between equivalent systems in all squad vehicles by sharing data in order to take the best decisions and to share priorities. Another interesting feature of the Cockerill i-X is the installation of one built-in jack on each side of the lower part of the chassis which can be deployed on the ground for self-recovery from soft sand."

GreenandGold:
....to go against our own

And yet again, we've been sitting on the vehicle prototype since 1997/8 and someone else will eat our lunch!

Lurker4Long:

And yet again, we've been sitting on the vehicle prototype since 1997/8 and someone else will eat our lunch!

That 97/98 prototype is yesterday's news.... my prototype is the in thing, how dare you give away my internet glory

Jokes aside, imagine having the ability to lift two 30mm armed vehicles in a C130 and drop them anywhere in Africa... I mean;

1. You introduce a new vehicle that works within our airforce capability, no need to hire East Europeans to airlift our vehicles
2. You give deployed troops unmatched firepower

Why is no one in the SANDF thinking about this, you don't need hundreds of them, just 2 dozen in service would do.

Lurker4Long:


As do the Belgians over at John Cockerill:

that's an interesting vehicle, especially the 360° view helmet.... feature has been stolen... my MK II version will come with this feature

GreenandGold:


That 97/98 prototype is yesterday's news.... my prototype is the in thing, how dare you give away my internet glory

Jokes aside, imagine having the ability to lift two 30mm armed vehicles in a C130 and drop them anywhere in Africa... I mean;

1. You introduce a new vehicle that works within our airforce capability, no need to hire East Europeans to airlift our vehicles
2. You give deployed troops unmatched firepower

Why is no one in the SANDF thinking about this, you don't need hundreds of them, just 2 dozen in service would do.

After Bangui, I seem to recall Frumentius complaining about the lack of a practical replacement for the Eland; something easily air-deployable by a C-130, with enough dakka dakka for the Parabats. Reading somebody like Darren Olivier, I get the sense SANDF planners are a really frustrated lot, advocating for what needs to be done and being stymied by the "no budget" refrain.
Think about it, Paras as first-in only have MGs, mortars and grenade launchers for fire support. In an ideal world, a troop (2 vehicles) of our (look at me sharing in your internet glory! ) vehicle in 30mm, and maybe an additional 2nd troop in 90mm, would deploy along with the Paras.
The long convoy of Toyota technicals on the Mpoko River bridge would have been not just handed its arse as the SF did in 8 Hornets, but completely stopped in its tracks. That's just 4 vehicles in 2 C-130 flights.

BTW, the Il-76s we usually charter aren't owned by East European companies. I can't remember now if the ones during Bangui were Belgian or Dutch, but they basically said their insurance does not allow them to fly into a hot zone. So SANDF Logistics had to run around finding charters, whilst not falling foul of our procurement rules. Hence the deployment to Entebbe in Uganda and Gemena in DRC.
If SANDF Logs had East European companies on the books, they would have had no problem flying into Bangui Airport on the Friday night, when the re-enforcement effort commenced after the thwarted ambush on the SF patrol.

GreenandGold:


That 97/98 prototype is yesterday's news.... my prototype is the in thing, how dare you give away my internet glory

I thought it was a given that GLORIOUS ERA Technologies would update and improve on that Mechem MC-90 prototype.

The largest and leading commercial and naval shipbuilding and ship repair company on the African continent, Sandock Austral Shipyards (SAS) undertook the midlife refit of the Danah Explorer luxury yacht. The four month refit included extending the length of the yacht from 51.8 metres to 67 metres. Other elements of the refit included adding another deck, installing an elevator and relocating the helipad. SAS, as Africa's leading commercial and naval shipbuilding and ship repair company, provides comprehensive solutions to the marine industry, worldwide.

*Shameless self-promotion: My company provides advisory and corporate finance services to initiatives in Accra involving SAS and other entities, aimed at west African sector dominance.

Lurker4Long:

The long convoy of Toyota technicals on the Mpoko River bridge would have been not just handed its arse as the SF did in 8 Hornets, but completely stopped in its tracks. That's just 4 vehicles in 2 C-130 flights.

4 of these vehicles firing 30mm HE shells toward those technicals would have caused a trail of destruction on the other side of the river.

As for "lack of funds", the SANDF generals and administrators are always waiting for Armscor to procure for them, they should take an initiative. Sell some old Ratels and a lot of old SADF scrap vehicles that are collecting rust, cut some of these endless social and in-department events they never stop posting on their Facebook, and make money available for these purchases.

You don't need to place a super large order, production can start with 2 dozen vehicles spread out over a delivery of maybe 5 years, which will soften a loan repayment. That's how countries like Botswana afford to have nice things.

Lurker4Long:



I thought it was a given that GLORIOUS ERA Technologies would make a state-of-the-art prototype from scratch.

Well-spoken

Lurker4Long:

*Shameless self-promotion: My company provides advisory and corporate finance services to initiatives in Accra involving SAS and other entities, aimed at west African sector dominance.

Now we know who to call to make our vehicle possible once it passes through the "look at me" Nairaland stage ... I was thinking of a proper animal name for it... all the nice names were taken by those lousy 80s arms manufacturers who had hoped to score it big with Armscor.