There’s been so many interpretations of certain parts bible and Romans 10:17 is no different from other parts of the bible which have been misinterpreted for personal reasons.

In this one minute video, our brother explains Romans 10:17 in context with 16 and 18 to finally reveal the truth. Kindly watch and share to propagate the message. God bless you!
REVEALED! Contextual rendition of Romans 10:16-18 #biblestudy
https://youtube.com/shorts/feeD369ML5A?feature=share

Techobeys:
There’s been so many interpretations of certain parts bible and Romans 10:17 is no different from other parts of the bible which have been misinterpreted for personal reasons.

In this one minute video, our brother explains Romans 10:17 in context with 16 and 18 to finally reveal the truth. Kindly watch and share to propagate the message. God bless you!
REVEALED! Contextual rendition of Romans 10:16-18 #biblestudy
https://youtube.com/shorts/feeD369ML5A?feature=share

Faith comes by hearing,that's when you hear it in ur spirit.

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Romans 10:17 New International Version

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17 New King James Version

It is very easy to believe the above, until one starts to think for oneself. Just ask, do you have faith in something just because you heard it? Most don't, and would test every spirit by asking and seeking and knocking with all their heart and soul and mind and being to check if what they heard is worthy of one's faith or not.

In science, we call it the Scientific Method, which makes Jesus, and Eve who did not believe the rubbish she was told, scientists of the first order and worthy of emulation. Even Paul the Apostle who wrote Romans tested a lot of what he heard before he got faith on the road to Damascus. And before anything, Jesus opened eyes so you can have the tools with which to test.

Only the gullible have faith in what they have not first tested.

Bubu4Sea:


Faith comes by hearing,that's when you hear it in ur spirit.

Agreed, if "hear it in ur spirit" is another way of saying, you tested it and now actually know.

Take "turn the other cheek" for instance. One would not have faith in turning the other cheek unless one has tried it. Those who try it would tell you that repeatedly turning the other cheek would make the person slapping your cheek tire of slapping your cheek and give up. Or they may end up fearing a turn the other cheeker.

But if that doesn't convince them to stop slapping your cheek, there's always the opportunity to gather evidence such that gbami leti kin di olowo becomes a phrase to have faith in.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amSjakYDFkA

Techobeys:
There’s been so many interpretations of certain parts bible and Romans 10:17 is no different from other parts of the bible which have been misinterpreted for personal reasons.

In this one minute video, our brother explains Romans 10:17 in context with 16 and 18 to finally reveal the truth. Kindly watch and share to propagate the message. God bless you!
REVEALED! Contextual rendition of Romans 10:16-18 #biblestudy
https://youtube.com/shorts/feeD369ML5A?feature=share

After my response above, I then went on to watch your video, and somewhat agree with you. Its not that they do not believe however, but that they have not tested so that they may actually know.

Belief is what one has when one has not tested. Such are like those who build their houses on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

Practice in the above is how you test, and not just once but many many times over until you are absolutely certain, then faith.

budaatum:


After my response above, I then went on to watch your video, and somewhat agree with you. Its not that they do not believe however, but that they have not tested so that they may actually know.

Belief is what one has when one has not tested. Such are like those who build their houses on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

Practice in the above is how you test, and not just once but many many times over until you are absolutely certain, then faith.

I’m glad you agree with me Buddha. Hopefully you and I will agree more. I hope we can both be open minded enough and not let our selfish pride hinder us from learning from each other. Thank you for your comment though. I wish you had subscribe but it’s ok. You getting the message is also important to me so thank you so much.

Kobojunkie what do you think?

AntiChristian:
Kobojunkie what do you think?

To understand what Paul means, one first need be aware of Paul's audience which is made clear in verse one, the people of Israel.

1 Brothers and sisters, what I want most is for all the people of Israel to be saved. That is my prayer to God.
2 I can say this about them: They really try hard to follow God, but they don’t know the right way.
3 They did not know the way that God makes people right with him. And they tried to make themselves right in their own way. So they did not accept God’s way of making people right.
4 Christ ended the law so that everyone who believes in him is made right with God.
5 Moses writes about being made right by following the law. He says, “The person who obeys these laws is the one who will have life through them.”
6 But this is what the Scriptures say about being made right through faith: “Don’t say to yourself, ‘Who will go up into heaven?’” (This means “Who will go up to heaven to get Christ and bring him down to earth?”)
7 “And don’t say, ‘Who will go down into the world below?’” (This means “Who will go down to get Christ and bring him up from death?”)
8 This is what the Scripture says: “God’s teaching is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart.” It is the teaching of faith that we tell people.
9 If you openly say, “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from death, you will be saved.
10 Yes, we believe in Jesus deep in our hearts, and so we are made right with God. And we openly say that we believe in him, and so we are saved.
11 Yes, the Scriptures say, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disappointed.”
12 It says this because there is no difference between those who are Jews and those who are not. The same Lord is the Lord of all people. And he richly blesses everyone who looks to him for help.
13 Yes, “everyone who trusts in the Lord[d] will be saved.”
14 But before people can pray to the Lord for help, they must believe in him. And before they can believe in the Lord, they must hear about him. And for anyone to hear about the Lord, someone must tell them.
15 And before anyone can go and tell them, they must be sent. As the Scriptures say, “How wonderful it is to see someone coming to tell good news!”
16 But not all the people accepted that good news. Isaiah said, “Lord, who believed what we told them?”
17 So faith comes from hearing the Good News. And people hear the Good News when someone tells them about Christ. - Romans 10 vs 1 - 17

Now, to the meaning of Paul's assertion in verse 17, first we need to understand the meaning of the word faith as used in scripture, and a good place to start is by examining the life of Abraham or that which endeared Abraham to God. According to God, in Genesis 26 vs 5, it was Abraham's living his life in submission and obedience to God's Law and statutes that endeared him, Abraham, to God. Yes, Faith refers to living one's life in continuous submission and obedience to God's Law — a life of obedience to God is what a life of faith entails.

Now Paul's submission in Romans 2 insists that hearing(auditory perception) of God's law alone does not endear one to God, but rather the doing of the Law is what makes one right with God. And doing of God's Law — obedience to God's teachings and commandments — is what we know from examining the case of Abraham — is what Faith is in fact about.

12 People who have the law and those who have never heard of the law are all the same when they sin. People who don’t have the law and are sinners will be lost. And, in the same way, those who have the law and are sinners will be judged by the law.
13 Hearing the law does not make people right with God. They will be right before him only if they always do what the law says.
14 Those who are not Jews don’t have the law. But when they naturally do what the law commands without even knowing the law, then they are their own law. This is true even though they don’t have the written law. - Romans 2 vs 12 - 14

Putting this together, we can then see that Paul's statement in verse 17 does not simply imply that one is endeared to God via the simple auditory perception of God's Law but rather that the process begins with the auditory perception of God's Law after which must then be followed by continuous obedience in order to be made right with God. Paul is insisting that the Good news needs to be told to the people in order for the people to at least hear the Law, after which they then make the decision of their own to follow or not follow that which they have heard with obedience. So, basically, Paul is simply advocating for aggressive preaching of the Good News to all the people of Israel in order that they might at least hear the Truth of God and as many of them who choose to obey after hearing can be saved in the end.

Also of importance to note is the fact that this letter written by Paul, like all of his other letters, does not contain or address the details --- the terms and conditions .I.e the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ---- of the Gospel, God's Law in the Kingdom of God. Those who cling to loose interpretations of the words of Paul in place of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ cannot be said to be living in faith as the Gospel refers to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, God's Law and Truth in the Kingdom of God.

---

OKCornel, here you have your Paul, the same one whom you claim informed you that one can be saved by one's conscience, instead asserting there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ, God's Law.

Kobojunkie:
To understand what Paul means, one first need be aware of Paul's audience which is made clear in verse one, the people of Israel.
Now, to the meaning of Paul's assertion in verse 17, first we need to understand the meaning of the word faith as used in scripture, and a good place to start is by examining the life of Abraham or that which endeared Abraham to God. According to God, in Genesis 26 vs 5, it was Abraham's living his life in submission and obedience to God's Law and statutes that endeared him, Abraham, to God. Yes, Faith refers to living one's life in continuous submission and obedience to God's Law — a life of obedience to God is what a life of faith entails.

Now Paul's submission in Romans 2 insists that hearing(auditory perception) of God's law alone does not endear one to God, but rather the doing of the Law is what makes one right with God. And doing of God's Law — obedience to God's teachings and commandments — is what we know from examining the case of Abraham — is what Faith is in fact about.


Putting this together, we can then see that Paul's statement in verse 17 does not simply imply that one is endeared to God via the simple auditory perception of God's Law but rather that the process begins with the auditory perception of God's Law after which must then be followed by continuous obedience in order to be made right with God. Paul is insisting that the Good news needs to be told to the people in order for the people to at least hear the Law, after which they then make the decision of their own to follow or not follow that which they have heard with obedience. So, basically, Paul is simply advocating for aggressive preaching of the Good News to all the people of Israel in order that they might at least hear the Truth of God and as many of them who choose to obey after hearing can be saved in the end.

Also of importance to note is the fact that this letter written by Paul, like all of his other letters, does not contain or address the details --- the terms and conditions .I.e the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ---- of the Gospel, God's Law in the Kingdom of God. Those who cling to loose interpretations of the words of Paul in place of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ cannot be said to be living in faith as the Gospel refers to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, God's Law and Truth in the Kingdom of God.

---

OKCornel, here you have your Paul, the same one whom you claim informed you that one can be saved by one's conscience, instead asserting there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ, God's Law.

Nope. Conscience is a tool to determine right from wrong.

Every man has this and would be judged according to their works.

If they know the right thing to do, and do not do it. Too bad.
If they know the wrong thing to do, and do not shun away from it. Too bad.

Every man would be judged ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS. Ignorance is not an excuse. That's the crux of my point.

Romans 2 v 13-16;
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

OkCornel:
■ Nope. Conscience is a tool to determine right from wrong. Every man has this and would be judged according to their works. If they know the right thing to do, and do not do it. Too bad. If they know the wrong thing to do, and do not shun away from it. Too bad. Every man would be judged ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS. Ignorance is not an excuse. That's the crux of my point.

1. But you have your Paul insisting that those works have to be as stipulated in God's Law, Jesus Christ. Meaning there are no works to be judged outside of God's Law, Jesus Christ. Essentially what Paul said is that it is not possible to know the right thing to do without first hearing God's Law. And even after hearing the Law, one cannot be made right with God unless one obeys God's Law — doing of the Law.

Kobojunkie:
1. But you have your Paul insisting that those works have to be as stipulated in God's Law, Jesus Christ. Meaning there are no works to be judged outside of God's Law, Jesus Christ.

Read slowly. Don't be in a haste to respond.

Romans 2 v 13-16;
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.


If you are itching to argue, you can do that with Paul. I don't have the luxury of time for pointless back and forth. The above scripture is self explanatory.

OkCornel:
■ Read slowly. Don't be in a haste to respond.
Romans 2 v 13-16;
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

If you are itching to argue, you can do that with Paul. I don't have the luxury of time for pointless back and forth. The above scripture is self explanatory.

1. I am afraid you are instead the one not paying close attention to what Paul is in fact saying in that entire passage.

■ In verse 13 Paul insists that righteousness cannot be found outside of God's Law, in this case, Jesus Christ, meaning that for one to be made right with God, one in fact has to obey every inch of God's Law — Jesus Christ offered declared cursed those who would obey some laws rejecting others. If you throw this out of whatever conclusion you come up with, you are no longer presenting Paul's message but a concoction of your own making.

■ Now, as for hearing the Law or not hearing of the Law- verse 14 - verse 15 -, what Paul said is far from the many assumptions you have made regarding what he wrote there in those verses which you continue to pull out of context. Take my particular case for instance. I never got to hear(auditory perception) God's Law from the mouth of any man. No one preached the Truth of God as taught by Jesus Christ to my person, yet through my conscience — I had a conscience which convinced me without hearing from men that I needed to find and do God's WIll/Law in order to obtain answers from Him— God Himself led my person to find His Law and Truth — Jesus Christ —and obeying His Law. Recall that in Jeremiah God said this is what He would in fact do.

31 This is what the Lord said, “The time is coming when I will make a new agreement with the family of Israel and with the family of Judah.
32 It will not be like the agreement I made with their ancestors. I made that agreement when I took them by the hand and brought them out of Egypt. I was their master, but they broke that agreement.” This message is from the Lord.
33 “In the future, I will make this agreement with the people of Israel.” This message is from the Lord. “I will put my teachings in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
34 People will not have to teach their neighbors and relatives to know the Lord, because all people, from the least important to the most important, will know me.” This message is from the Lord. “I will forgive them for the evil things they did. I will not remember their sins.” - Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34

So, what Paul said is that even those who have never heard — been preached to— will also be led by God — their conscience, he claims — to doing what God commands in His Law, Jesus Christ which God said He will right in their hearts.

■ Paul pretty much confirmed that it is indeed by the Law, Jesus Christ, that all works will be judged when he stated in verse 16 that all works will be judged according to the Law, Jesus Christ. Again, there is no righteousness to be had for any man outside of God's Law, Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
1. I am afraid you are instead the one not paying close attention to what Paul is in fact saying in that entire passage.

■ In verse 13 Paul insists that righteousness cannot be found outside of God's Law, in this case, Jesus Christ, meaning that for one to be made right with God, one in fact has to obey every inch of God's Law — Jesus Christ offered declared cursed those who would obey some laws rejecting others. If you throw this out of whatever conclusion you come up with, you are no longer presenting Paul's message but a concoction of your own making.

■ Now, as for hearing the Law or not hearing of the Law- verse 14 - verse 15 -, what Paul said is far from the many assumptions you have made regarding what he wrote there in those verses which you continue to pull out of context. Take my particular case for instance. I never got to hear(auditory perception) God's Law from the mouth of any man. No one preached the Truth of God as taught by Jesus Christ to my person, yet through my conscience — I had a conscience which convinced me without hearing from men that I needed to find and do God's WIll/Law in order to obtain answers from Him— God Himself led my person to find His Law and Truth — Jesus Christ —and obeying His Law. Recall that in Jeremiah God said this is what He would in fact do.
So, what Paul said is that even those who have never heard — been preached to— will also be led by God — their conscience, he claims — to doing what God commands in His Law, Jesus Christ which God said He will right in their hearts.

■ Paul pretty much confirmed that it is indeed by the Law, Jesus Christ, that all works will be judged when he stated in verse 16 that all works will be judged according to the Law, Jesus Christ. Again, there is no righteousness to be had for any man outside of God's Law, Jesus Christ.

Argue with Paul. The message is straightforward for anyone with a sound mind to understand.

OkCornel:
■ Argue with Paul. The message is straightforward for anyone with a sound mind to understand.

1. Paul isn't the one I have to argue with as his message clearly agrees with Jesus Christ in that he submits that righteousness of the standard that is Jesus Christ does not exist outside of Jesus Christ for all Israelites — both those who have heard the Gospel and those who haven't heard the Gospel.

The tales you have taken to spinning around those two verses which you conveniently lift out of context, however, are your tales, and not Paul's.

Kobojunkie:
1. But you have your Paul insisting that those works have to be as stipulated in God's Law, Jesus Christ. Meaning there are no works to be judged outside of God's Law, Jesus Christ. Essentially what Paul said is that it is not possible to know the right thing to do without first hearing God's Law. And even after hearing the Law, one cannot be made right with God unless one obeys God's Law — doing of the Law.

You this Kobojunkie you like argument. Why don’t you guys pay attention to each other’s point of view.

Must you guys just argue about everyone on Nairaland ? Ugrrr

Kobojunkie:
To understand what Paul means, one first need be aware of Paul's audience which is made clear in verse one, the people of Israel.
Now, to the meaning of Paul's assertion in verse 17, first we need to understand the meaning of the word faith as used in scripture, and a good place to start is by examining the life of Abraham or that which endeared Abraham to God. According to God, in Genesis 26 vs 5, it was Abraham's living his life in submission and obedience to God's Law and statutes that endeared him, Abraham, to God. Yes, Faith refers to living one's life in continuous submission and obedience to God's Law — a life of obedience to God is what a life of faith entails.

Now Paul's submission in Romans 2 insists that hearing(auditory perception) of God's law alone does not endear one to God, but rather the doing of the Law is what makes one right with God. And doing of God's Law — obedience to God's teachings and commandments — is what we know from examining the case of Abraham — is what Faith is in fact about.


Putting this together, we can then see that Paul's statement in verse 17 does not simply imply that one is endeared to God via the simple auditory perception of God's Law but rather that the process begins with the auditory perception of God's Law after which must then be followed by continuous obedience in order to be made right with God. Paul is insisting that the Good news needs to be told to the people in order for the people to at least hear the Law, after which they then make the decision of their own to follow or not follow that which they have heard with obedience. So, basically, Paul is simply advocating for aggressive preaching of the Good News to all the people of Israel in order that they might at least hear the Truth of God and as many of them who choose to obey after hearing can be saved in the end.

Also of importance to note is the fact that this letter written by Paul, like all of his other letters, does not contain or address the details --- the terms and conditions .I.e the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ---- of the Gospel, God's Law in the Kingdom of God. Those who cling to loose interpretations of the words of Paul in place of the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ cannot be said to be living in faith as the Gospel refers to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, God's Law and Truth in the Kingdom of God.

---

OKCornel, here you have your Paul, the same one whom you claim informed you that one can be saved by one's conscience, instead asserting there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ, God's Law.

This is a beautiful comment but that last paragraph could have been omitted.

Kobojunkie:
1. Paul isn't the one I have to argue with as his message clearly agrees with Jesus Christ in that he submits that righteousness of the standard that is Jesus Christ does not exist outside of Jesus Christ for all Israelites — both those who have heard the Gospel and those who haven't heard the Gospel.

The tales you have taken to spinning around those two verses which you conveniently lift out of context, however, are your tales, and not Paul's.

Kindly explain how the likes of the Assyrians at Nineveh whom Jonah preached to will be judged.

Don't they know right from wrong? What will be the standard used to judge their works?

Techobeys:


You this Kobojunkie you like argument. Why don’t you guys pay attention to each other’s point of view.

Must you guys just argue about everyone on Nairaland ? Ugrrr

Very senseless arguments to be honest.

Dude outrightly lied I mentioned "salvation by conscience".

Whereas, the point I was making was the gentiles who never had the Law cannot be excused from not knowing good and evil, as they have a conscience that convicts them of wrong doing. And they will be judged ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS which Paul beautifully explained in Romans 2 v 13-16

Please tell me how diificult it is to understand what I just explained, and the Salvation by Conscience nonsense Kobojukie is saying.

Kobojunkie is fond of quoting one out of context to fuel his addiction to arguments. I don't have time for such attention seeking nonsense.

OkCornel:
■ Kindly explain how the likes of the Assyrians at Nineveh whom Jonah preached to will be judged.
■ Don't they know right from wrong? What will be the standard used to judge their works?

1. What did God send Jonah to do in Nineveh?

1. Then the Lord spoke to Jonah again and said,
2 “Go to that big city Nineveh, and say what I tell you.”
3 So Jonah obeyed the Lord and went to Nineveh. It was a very large city. A person had to walk for three days to travel through it.
4 Jonah went to the center of the city and began speaking to the people. He said, “After 40 days, Nineveh will be destroyed!”
5 The people of Nineveh believed God. They decided to stop eating for a time to think about their sins. They put on special clothes to show they were sorry. All the people in the city did this, from the most important to the least important.
6 When the king of Nineveh heard about this, he left his throne, removed his robe, put on special clothes to show that he was sorry, and sat in ashes.
7 The king wrote a special message and sent it throughout the city: A command from the king and his great rulers: For a short time no person or animal should eat anything. No herd or flock will be allowed in the fields. Nothing living in Nineveh will eat or drink water.
8 But every person and every animal must be covered with a special cloth to show they are sad. People must cry loudly to God. Everyone must change their life and stop doing bad things.
9 Who knows? Maybe God will stop being angry and change his mind, and we will not be punished.
10 God saw what the people did. He saw that they stopped doing evil. So God changed his mind and did not do what he planned. He did not punish the people. - John 3 vs 1 - 10

According to the passage above, God's intention as to destroy the city of Nineveh, if the people continued to do evil in His sight. God is recorded to have done similar in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah. There is no mention that the intention was to save the souls or judge the souls of the individual inhabitants of the city but the entire people of the city instead.

The above has nothing to do with Paul's argument regarding the conscience where Paul instead insists that God will judge individuals by His Law, Jesus Christ that is written in their hearts. Again, Jonah said nothing of God raising the Ninevites from the dead to judge them after wards. Let's try to stick to the context abeg!

Kobojunkie:
1. What did God send Jonah to do in Nineveh?
According to the passage above, God's intention as to destroy the city of Nineveh, if the people continued to do evil in His sight. God is recorded to have done similar in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah. There is no mention that the intention was to save the souls or judge the souls of the individual inhabitants of the city but the entire people of the city instead.

The above has nothing to do with Paul's argument regarding the conscience where Paul instead insists that God will judge individuals by His Law, Jesus Christ that is written in their hearts. Again, Jonah said nothing of God raising the Ninevites from the dead to judge them after wards. Let's try to stick to the context abeg!

Did the Assyrians at Nineveh have God’s law?

How did they know good from evil?

Keep on playing the ostrich game.

OkCornel:
■ Did the Assyrians at Nineveh have God’s law? How did they know good from evil?

1. You do realize you are the one shifting the goal post here after in your earlier post, you had accused me of doing exactly that.

This discussion was never about the grounds by which God can or can't destroy a city or nation but instead of what Paul said and how it is applied as far as individuals and the judgment of the dead. Let's stop with the attempts to change the channel, shall we?

OkCornel:
Did the Assyrians at Nineveh have God’s law? How did they know good from evil? Keep on playing the ostrich game.

Is this not a post of yours indicating that your primary concern has always been the judgment to come after death and not the judgement of cities like Sodom and Gommorah or even Nineveh?

OkCornel:
My focus is on;
1. The judgment to come. Not the judgement of the first death passed to all mankind in Genesis.
2. How man is now like God, knowing good and evil. Mankind knew good and evil the moment Adam & Eve took out of that tree. They did not need any Noahide or Mosaic law to know good from evil. Mankind knew good and evil before the law was written and codified.
3. Before anyone suffers the first death, they have their conscience to remind them of good and evil, whether they are under the Law (Israelites) or not (Gentiles/heathen) - Romans 3 v 12-15

You are confusing yourself. For the umpteenth time, my focus is on the great white throne judgment. I never brought up the judgment in Genesis in the context of this discussion, you did. So clear up your confusion.

Okay...on those who died in unbelief, how do you reconcile that with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus the beggar in Luke 16 v 19-31. These are Jesus' words

How did the rich man exist after death?
Why did the rich man plead to Abraham that Lazarus or whoever should be sent to his brothers who were still alive to warn them about the terrible place of torment? If indeed he ceased to exist after physical death.

Research more on Sheol to answer this question. I've given you this pointer to avoid unnecessary back and forth questions, so we can make good use of our time on this thread.

OkCornel:


Very senseless arguments to be honest.

Dude outrightly lied I mentioned "salvation by conscience".

Whereas, the point I was making was the gentiles who never had the Law cannot be excused from not knowing good and evil, as they have a conscience that convicts them of wrong doing. And they will be judged ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS which Paul beautifully explained in Romans 2 v 13-16

Please tell me how diificult it is to understand what I just explained, and the Salvation by Conscience nonsense Kobojukie is saying.

Kobojunkie is fond of quoting one out of context to fuel his addiction to arguments. I don't have time for such attention seeking nonsense.

I think it’s the platform that does that to people. Honestly, I do not like arguments either but I tend to respond to give attention to my articles. If you don’t respond then your article will plung downward.

So I think it’s the spirit that controls the platform that does that to people. Yes I noticed kobojunkie some other people like arguing and sometimes it’s a totally blind argument but they can’t help it.

Just learn to observe my friend. You don’t have to respond to every comment.

Techobeys:


I think it’s the platform that does that to people. Honestly, I do not like arguments either but I tend to respond to give attention to my articles. If you don’t respond then your article will plung downward.

So I think it’s the spirit that controls the platform that does that to people. Yes I noticed kobojunkie some other people like arguing and sometimes it’s a totally blind argument but they can’t help it.

Just learn to observe my friend. You don’t have to respond to every comment.

I will suggest you stop considering it an argument, and stop arguing yourself and discuss instead.

Arguing is what one does when one assumes one is right and the other is wrong, and instead of listening to each other, one only listens to oneself.

Perhaps learn from Jesus when he was tempted on the mount. He used superior knowledge to put his points across such that the devil, we read, departed from him and angels ministered to him instead. It also helps to cultivate the fruits of the spirit In one's dealings with others while remembering to forgive those who know what they say, and know when to dust their dust off oneself and say "the Peace of the Lord" be with them.

Kobojunkie:
1. You do realize you are the one shifting the goal post here after in your earlier post, you had accused me of doing exactly that.

This discussion was never about the grounds by which God can or can't destroy a city or nation but instead of what Paul said and how it is applied as far as individuals and the judgment of the dead. Let's stop with the attempts to change the channel, shall we?

Keep on playing the Ostrich game and argue with yourself. We are here watching you.

Kobojunkie:
Is this not a post of yours indicating that your primary concern has always been the judgment to come after death and not the judgement of cities like Sodom and Gommorah or even Nineveh?

And where in that did I mention “salvation by conscience” as you falsely claimed?

Is it too difficult to understand people would be judged according to their works?

OkCornel:

And where in that did I mention “salvation by conscience” as you falsely claimed? Is it too difficult to understand people would be judged according to their works?

Refusal to acknowledge Jesus' brothers is what makes it difficult for people to agree on terms and conditions of pure worship so the arguments will continue.
What Paul meant in his letter to Christians in Rome is easy to grasp, only Jesus' brothers the BORN AGAIN Christians are saved due to the underserved kindness God showed to those that will rule with Christ Jesus in heaven, after their earthly journey they awaits the day of resurrection in their graves, they will be first to be resurrected but instead of physical resurrection they will become like angels and straight up they go to join Jesus who is waiting to take them to the abodes he prepared for them.
As for the rest of mankind many will be resurrected to life here on earth with perfect bodies no more deformities, if anyone lived and died with a deformity it will be gone when Jesus calls them back to life.

Now this is what Paul is talking about:

Any human who deliberately defied God's laws during his life time among those that knows God's laws has already received his or her final judgement because they've proved to be wicked with the way they ignored God's laws so they will not be remembered during resurrection! Psalms 9:17

Any among Christians who is not part of the BORN AGAIN that remained obedient till death will be brought back to life that's what Paul meant when he urged Christians to be obedient to those taking the lead in God's congregation because if they fail it will be to their detriment {Hebrews 13:7, 17} so all those claiming Christians but refused to live by the rules agreed upon by those taking the lead in the congregation of God will not be remembered Jesus has condemned them since they're not ready to uphold the LAWS set by those leading them! Matthew 7:21-23

WHY? Jesus said he has given those taking the lead the key to the Kingdom so whatever they bind on earth has been bound in heaven and whatever they loosen on earth has been loosened in heaven! Matthew 16:19

What happens to those who don't know God's laws in ancient times before Christ or those who never had the opportunity to meet Jesus' disciples? Their own judgement regarding the resurrection will be based on what they did with their conscience! Romans 2:14-15

It's after our resurrection on earth that a global educational program will ensue so that we can become perfect in thought within a thousand years that only Christianity will be allowed on this planet. Then Satan will be released that's why John said only those that took part in the first resurrection are free from the second death! Revelations 20:5-6

Those that took part in the first resurrection are free from the second death!...
What's the first resurrection ?
What if they fails or allow Satan to misled them during the thousand years ?

MaxInDHouse:


Refusal to acknowledge Jesus' brothers is what makes it difficult for people to agree on terms and conditions of pure worship so the arguments will continue.
What Paul meant in his letter to Christians in Rome is easy to grasp, only Jesus' brothers the BORN AGAIN Christians are saved due to the underserved kindness God showed to those that will rule with Christ Jesus in heaven, after their earthly journey they awaits the day of resurrection in their graves, they will be first to be resurrected but instead of physical resurrection they will become like angels and straight up they go to join Jesus who is waiting to take them to the abodes he prepared for them.
As for the rest of mankind many will be resurrected to life here on earth with perfect bodies no more deformities, if anyone lived and died with a deformity it will be gone when Jesus calls them back to life.

Now this is what Paul is talking about:

Any human who deliberately defied God's laws during his life time among those that knows God's laws has already received his or her final judgement because they've proved to be wicked with the way they ignored God's laws so they will not be remembered during resurrection! Psalms 9:17

Any among Christians who is not part of the BORN AGAIN that remained obedient till death will be brought back to life that's what Paul meant when he urged Christians to be obedient to those taking the lead in God's congregation because if they fail it will be to their detriment {Hebrews 13:7, 17} so all those claiming Christians but refused to live by the rules agreed upon by those taking the lead in the congregation of God will not be remembered Jesus has condemned them since they're not ready to uphold the LAWS set by those leading them! Matthew 7:21-23

WHY? Jesus said he has given those taking the lead the key to the Kingdom so whatever they bind on earth has been bound in heaven and whatever they loosen on earth has been loosened in heaven! Matthew 16:19

What happens to those who don't know God's laws in ancient times before Christ or those who never had the opportunity to meet Jesus' disciples? Their own judgement regarding the resurrection will be based on what they did with their conscience! Romans 2:14-15

It's after our resurrection on earth that a global educational program will ensue so that we can become perfect in thought within a thousand years that only Christianity will be allowed on this planet. Then Satan will be released that's why John said only those that took part in the first resurrection are free from the second death! Revelations 20:5-6

SeniorMan715:
Those that took part in the first resurrection are free from the second death!...
What's the first resurrection ?
What if they fails or allow Satan to misled them during the thousand years ?

@ All faithful servants of God in ancient times and their Christian counterpart are Jehovah's sheep {Psalms 23:1} whatever belongs to Jehovah is Jesus' property as the sole heir to everything Jehovah owns! Colossians 1:16

That's why Jesus referred to all faithful people as his sheep and we can see how King David confirmed this when he referred to Christ as Lord that will sit beside Jehovah! Psalms 110:1

So when talking to his Jewish disciples Jesus told them that he had other sheep which aren't of the first fold {John 10:16} he told them that he will bring all of them together as one under the same shepherd. This first set are the BORN AGAIN Christians they became BORN AGAIN at pentecost before then there has never been anyone BORN like that that's why Jesus could say John the baptist is greater than all those born of women {Matthew 11:11} because only Adam (before his fall) is greater than John the baptist as God's direct Son! Luke 3:38

So the BORN AGAIN Christian will not resurrect on this planet as humans rather they will be resurrected as spirit sons of God (angels) {Luke 20:35-36} and instantly they will go and join Jesus in heaven where Satan has been driven away that's why they can't have any issues with death anymore! Revelations 12:12

@ Whoever failed after the 1,000 years of Christ's reign will be destroyed along with Satan!

OkCornel:
■ And where in that did I mention “salvation by conscience” as you falsely claimed?
■ Is it too difficult to understand people would be judged according to their works?

1. The judging of their works, isn't it for purpose of salvation?

OR what do you think the White throne judgment is all about? Jesus Christ said all those who stand faithful until the end will be saved - Matthew 24 vs 12 - 13 & Matthew 10 vs 22 & Mark 13 vs 13 - meaning that when He returns to judge the works of the sheep and goats in His Kingdom it is for the determine those who are saved and those who are not saved. And He made clear in His Gospel that His Judgement will be weighed according to the Standard that is New Covenant Law in the Kingdom of God.

2. You indicated that their works/salvation will be judged according to the standard that is their conscience, yes or no?

SeniorMan715:
■Those that took part in the first resurrection are free from the second death!...
■What's the first resurrection ?
■ What if they fails or allow Satan to misled them during the thousand years ?

1. I am afraid that is wrong! All Israelites will be raised in the first resurrection meaning all born-agains, all of them equally Israelites with the blood of Jacob coursing through their literal veins will also be raised.

2. The resurrection of the people of Israel, the fulfillment of God's promise to the Nation of Israel — Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20

3. How can they fail if they are, all of them, the righteous of God's Old Law?

Kobojunkie:
1. The judging of their works, isn't it for purpose of salvation?

OR what do you think the White throne judgment is all about? Jesus Christ said all those who stand faithful until the end will be saved - Matthew 24 vs 12 - 13 & Matthew 10 vs 22 & Mark 13 vs 13 - meaning that when He returns to judge the works of the sheep and goats in His Kingdom it is for the determine those who are saved and those who are not saved. And He made clear in His Gospel that His Judgement will be weighed according to the Standard that is New Covenant Law in the Kingdom of God.

2. You indicated that their works/salvation will be judged according to the standard that is their conscience, yes or no?

Is it their conscience that saves them? Or their works. Hmmm?