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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? (1840 Views)
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Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 4:26pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Who purportedly tempted Jesus then? |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 4:33pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:■ I believe it is written that Satan did. ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 4:35pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: So Lucifer is not another name for Satan? |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 4:43pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:No ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 4:49pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Ok so I take it that you don't think Revelations is from the god or Jesus? |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 4:52pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:1. Does Revelations tell you instead that Lucifer is Satan? ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 6:02pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Can you answer the question? You've already said Lucifer is not another name for Satan. Fin. |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 6:03pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:I did state that Satan is not Lucifer, yes? ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 6:37pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Yes and we are done with that. I asked a different question I dunno why you are going back to that. Do you think Revelation is the word of the god or Jesus? |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 6:42pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed: ![]() 1. I think Revelation is a vision revealed to John by Jesus Christ as John himself stated in Revelations 1 vs 1 - 2. The Word of God instead refers to the Word that emanates directly from the mouth of God Himself or Jesus Christ. ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 6:59pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: What's the difference? In the vision was it not Jesus speaking to John? |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 7:07pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:1. According to John, Jesus Christ wasn't the only one who spoke to him in the vision. And John made certain to reveal this in his book. So, basically, the Words attributed to Jesus Christ can be considered valid as is — Truth. However, the words that are not of Jesus Christ cannot be considered in the same way. ![]() For instance, when, John records Jesus Christ as declaring that He is the brighter morning star in Revelations 22 vs 16, one is meant to take that as Jesus Christ revealing Truth. ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 7:24pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: So some of the chapters of Revelation cannot be considered as valid? |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 7:27pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:1. Be specific. What particular things in what chapters? ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 8:22pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Some chapters of Revelations don't have Jesus or the god speaking so such chapters won't be valid based on what you said "However, the words that are not of Jesus Christ cannot be considered in the same way". Chapter 4 for instance, according to what you said would it be valid? |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 8:25pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:What is it in Chapter 4 that you are considering? ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 8:52pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: The entire chapter. |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 9:01pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:1. According to John what he wrote is what he saw. Do you wish to refute his claim? ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 9:09pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: You said: Kobojunkie: With emphasis on the bolded words. Chapter 4 has no words of Jesus or the god so it is not to be considered on the same level as chapters 1-3, according to you. |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 9:13pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:The Words out of the mouth of Jesus Christ is Truth! All else is to be validated against that which is written. ![]() There is a law that states that by the accounts of 2 or 3 witnesses shall truth be established. That law is part of the Old Law -Deuteronomy 17vs 6 - and also of the new - Matthew 18 vs 16 - This is used in verifying pretty much any claims that are made outside of that decreed by God Himself. So what is written in Revelations 4, John's account of what he saw, is his account of what he saw. Now, to verify his claim you find other witnesses who claim to have seen the same. ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 9:19pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: It was your own words o, I didn't force you. You wrote it clean clear. Are you walking it back? So which 2 or 3 witnesses are we going to use to verify chapter 4? |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 9:20pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:1. Where do you have me walking it back? ![]() 2. you look through scripture to find your witnesses ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 9:34pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Again you: Kobojunkie: Chapter 4 has no words of Jesus. So we shouldn't consider it to be the same as chapters 1-3 according to you. There is no other person in the Bible who wrote similar to what was written in chapter 4 of Revelation. So do we regard it as invalid? 1 Like |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 9:36pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:As I already explained in my previous comments, The Words out of the mouth of Jesus Christ/God is Truth! All else is to be validated against that which is written. ![]() There is a law that states that by the accounts of 2 or 3 witnesses shall truth be established. That law is part of the Old Law -Deuteronomy 17vs 6 - and also of the new - Matthew 18 vs 16 - This is used in verifying pretty much any claims that are made outside of that decreed by God Himself. So what is written in Revelations 4, John's account of what he saw, is his account of what he saw. Now, to verify his claim you find other witnesses who claim to have seen the same. ![]() If no one else in scripture corroborates it, then you simply take it as, in this case, John's accounts of what he saw in his dream/vision. ![]() Also, from my own research, for a thing to be considered invalid though, it has to exist in direct contradiction to that which is written. ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 9:40pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: There are no words of Jesus in chapter 4 of Revelation. There no writers in the Bible who wrote similar to chapter 4 of Revelation. |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 9:42pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:then it is not an established truth but the account of the writer in that case. ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 9:45pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: So why don't you take Paul's words as it is? That means the story in in chapter 12 should be taken as it is since it doesn't contradict anything in the Bible. 1 Like |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 9:46pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:1. I am sorry! What part of what I explained do you not understand? ![]() 2. What part of the story in 12 are you referring to? ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 9:47pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: So the same writer says he heard Jesus but the same writer can't be trusted in the same book because it's not the words of Jesus? How can you tell the author is correct in any case? Again there are no writers that have written anything similar to what John wrote. |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by LordReed(m): 9:49pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: It seems you are the one dodging from understanding what you wrote. All of it but particularly the war in heaven. |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 9:53pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:1. The mandate is to trust and obey God, not His apostles or in the writers of scripture. ![]() 2. Basically, ■ God's Word is the Truth ■ Every other account that is not of God needs to be validated against God's Word ■ In the case that there is no statement made by God regarding an issue, then by the accounts of two or three witnesses shall truth be established ■ In the case that there are no statements made by God regarding an issue, and no other accounts to corroborate the claim made, then the truth revealed is not established but local — that of the author. In this case, anything that cannot be verified and does not contradict God is John's account. ![]() |
Re: Are Angels Allowed The Free Will To Sin Against God? by Kobojunkie: 9:55pm On Mar 15, 2023 |
LordReed:1. Recall that you are reading from a person's dreams. Do you apply the same literal reasoning to the dreams of others or even your own dreams? ![]() |
Your First Encounter With Jesus Christ / Jesus Is Not A Pagan God / Sometimes I Wish That There Is A God.
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