[quote author=immortalcrown post=122058865]First of all, Tinubu did not win. He stole someone's victory.

I'm Igbo, Tinubu won fair n square. I have been able to understand nigerian politics from 2011, and always easily predict who will win. Take it or leave it, opposition can't win without a united front. I spoke many times about dis, d likes of keyamo, soludo etc hammered on it. D votes of the opposition were split into 3, these were pple dat were united in 2019 and couldn't win. Anyone who says structures is not important will keep contesting election every 4 years.

Tflex01:


This is rather too harsh. I think most Yorubas passed through this stage of loving and trusting Igbos, I did too. Because unlike them that their parents filled their head with terrible stories about the Yorubas from birth, our parents never taught us anything like that, we experience their hate as we grow. Pardon him because he may still come around.

Op the truth is Igbos hate you because you are Yoruba and that's a fact! Forget the religious cards they tried to play in the build to election about MM ticket. Awolowo that ran on Christian-Christian ticket was stoned in Aba. Igbos would have been celebrating by now if Atiku (who is five years older than Tinubu) won this election. You as a Yoruba man is their biggest headache.

The truth is that they employ bathos in any that throws Yoruba their strongest ally. Growing up back in the days, Yorubas have always protected the interests of the Igbos and their businesses in Yoruba land. The North did them dirty but what I found baffling is them directing their anger against Yorubas.

If he likes let him come out of his delusion or he remains there. They have continually drag the Yoruba down even in Yoruba land with reckless disregard. The highest vote tally Obi had in this election came from Yoruba land while the lowest Tinubu had came from igboland and yet the Yorubas took it cc calmly and moved on.

They protected their own and expect us to throw ours away. Who does that? I know Tinubu's government will change a lot of things but these particular people should change their orientation.

They have dealt us a torrent of free deadly blows from history to now. They will be the one to fan the embers of discord and still play the victim. You will agree with me that in Yoruba land when conducting our daily activities nobody cares whether you are Yoruba or Igbo. Atiku can look them in the face and tell them anything that comes out of his stomach and they will still clap for him but a Yoruba man drinking water somewhere will be a suspect.

If Atiku had won just as you opined, they would've still pelted us with all manner of insults not minding that Tinubu is not even old enough to be his immediate younger brother. In this election, if the regions had voted the way they did in the east, their candidate will still come distant third. In their petition, they even abandoned rigging and went for candidates personal and historical attach.

Corona22:

Yes , rubbish lo shele
And nah that stupid Mc and ko na him cause am. But Wetin be my own personally , i no sabi Mc before and I no dey related to am in any way , why are you fighting me ? Chude wey dey oppress for Anambra was oppressed by anambra people , why not condemn that too ?

From this comment, I can tell you are beginning to get the point... People like you are good for us, I was once like you but I thank God today that I'm a troll and I will troll the Igbos till dey suffocate.. Gba gbe bo ya omode buroko... Even if Osibanjo contested this election and Obi was not in the race, the Igbos will still have voted Atiku... It's a natural hate for the Yoruba... Shebi GRV is with a wide margin better than Sanwo Olu? And Dave Ugwuanyi and Peter Obi were better than both Sanwo and even Jagaban as governors

Corona22:
My name is Ayomide ,obviously a Yoruba man. I’m a Christian and I have no political affiliation. This should not be important to clarify but that’s the current state of the country nowadays. I’ve spent most of life in the southwest , so my opinion will be shaped only by what I’ve experienced in the southwest alone.

I’m utterly disgusted and disappointed with the current state of affairs in our country today. How did we get it so wrong ? We’ve decided to pick sides and fight each other based on affiliations that mean nothing in the greater scheme of things for politicians that look at us as statistics and not people.


I supported Peter Obi because I wanted a breathe of fresh air , because Tinubu is obviously too old and physically unfit to withstand the rigors of being president. I’m not sure he can steer us in the right path in this ever evolving world as befits a country as great as Nigeria. He obviously belongs to an older generation and he doesn’t seem to have the capabilities to “converse” ( for the lack of a befitting word )with other world leaders of the world. That is my personal opinion that I’m entitled to, my constitutional right. I did not vote Obi because I’m Igbo or because I’m a Christian.

But Tinubu has won.

I’ll say this to the Igbos that are justifiably angry and bitter and have been insulting Yorubas ( I know a lot of Igbo people that have not insulted anyone and they have my respect and thanks and such people is exempt from this) , They are bad , tribalistic people in all tribes. Painting us all with the same brush will only create enemies where they was previously none.

I’m Yoruba. And when you attack the Yoruba tribe as a whole , you attack me as well and my natural inclination is to pick a side. Let this narrative that all Yoruba hate all Igbo die and let us all move on from this. Old people fight is not young people fight. Why are we inheriting our grandfathers beef ? The people that did evil against the Igbos are long dead and facing their judgement. This generation is meant to be different. Let it be so and let us have one Nigeria instead of a divided one
Peace

The beef is from the civil war. It was Nigeria that fought with Biafra, it wasn't Yorubas versus Biafra. When the war ended, Ikwerres who are supposed to be part of Biafra refused to hand over properties owned by the igbos before the war back to the Igbos but the Yorubas who are reasonable and decent people gave back all the properties they left behind and helped them to start over again.

Unfortunately the seed of hate had been sown in the average Igbo's heart against the accomodating part of Nigeria that welcomed them back with open arms.

TheOldGods:
I used to believe this trash you just wrote. But now I've learn better. There is nothing like one Nigeria ever. It died the day some yourubas threatened Igbo groups in Lagos. Our forefathers fought the war, and they are mostly dead yes. But we must be teach our children and tell them stories of that war. We must tell them that the youruba tribe and Hausa tribe came together to fight us. And when they couldn't win, they decided to block food source which caused genocide and ended the war. We must keep inciting and teaching them history. It's not hate, but it history and they all deserve to know. If my generation couldn't get it, then theirs can try to fix it. But if it was for me to ever accept that we are one anymore, never. It is dead

All you’re doing is psychologically conditioning your children to have hatred for the grandchildren and great grandchildren of those that fought in the war, those poor kids that are blameless. I can tell you for free that Yoruba kids don’t even know anything about the war in any way. And what are you saying about Yoruba coming together with Hausa people fighting the Igbo ? Do you even understand why the war was fought in the first place ? I’m not sure you do. You’re just regurgitating what you were taught without making your own research.

Food was blocked from reaching the south east , yes I agree but was it by choice of the average yoruba man or was it the choice of some group of people in power ( that might not even be yoruba , if you check who was the military administrators back then you’ll understand ) so why are you punishing Ayomide for something Brigadier General something something did ages ago ? Did my OWN forefathers intentionally refuse to sell food to you or was it by executive EDICT AND DECREE ??

[quote author= Aquila99 post=122065185][/quote]
Well start orientating your people, they are feed with wrong information and they are quick to take in fake news long as it go against someone they hate... Orientate them let them know the election was rigged all wrong but the one with the best spread won... Asiwaju got 8m votes while Atiku, Obi and Kwakwaso got 15m votes... There's no winning among any of the old PDP

oracle009:

Rara o. Ko ki nse ọmọ ale. Igbẹ kinkin leti awo gbẹ̀giri, bi ojú ba kuro nibe, ọkàn o le kuro nibe. Àwọn ọmọ ibo o le ma le ejo si wa, nigba ti awa nle eku si wọn. Jẹ gùdù jẹrà ati onikorira ni wọn. A fi ki wọn jawọ ninu iwa a lọnílọ́wọ́gba ati ogboju asan.

I hope you can read that

Of course , Egbon.
Omo ijebu le ma je o 😂

Great0ne1:

Are you so sure, i can't say this to your face ?

Another proof you are a fucking batist. You only fooled your self

You’ll say this to my face without provocation , and you feel you’ll go scot free ?!? Lol

Tflex01:


Go and sleep.

Omo baba mi I don sleep wake up o , na another thing I hoped to meet , na another thing I dey see. It is well

Corona22:

You really think so ? Why ? If you understand Nigeria politics well and how votes are being spread from region to region you’ll know that Tinubu won. It’s very clear to see. I know Obi will be President someday though , but not if his supporters are out here insulting everybody

u re neither here nor there. Probably enjoying the attention ur little thread is generating

You nauseate yourself , I’m no child , neither do I have to have the same mindset as you or form the same opinion. Biden that you mentioned is very sick and mentally unwell and is embarrassing the US on global stage , so for not wanting that for my people I’m a misinformed dreg ?

Sad

Benwallt:
I am sure this one still lives under his parents. Trash.

And if truly you are a Yoruba, then, akididinrin ni e. You and misinformed dregs like you are the reason why they wanna stage a sad drama in your region. Their candidate lost woefully in the North because those northerners wouldn't even touch them with a totem pole. Do you see them daring the north? Or Kano, Kaduna isn't cosmopolitan enough?

You talked about age, Biden became American president at 78. In fact I don't have your time. You nauseates me.

T9ksy:



I was really enjoying your submissions so far until I saw the bolded lines, above.

Can you please expatiate on what exactly igboho did that that convince you that he's doing "too much" and consequently, abandoned him in gaol?

Sunday Igboho called Ooni of Ife that boy, OBJ in his old age will go down flat in the presence of the Ooni.

We have a strong culture that we can treat anyhow.

Chimok:
u re neither here nor there. Probably enjoying the attention ur little thread is generating

It is nothing but an experiment, one that is failing woefully. Me not being here or there is exactly my stance in real life too. I’m not interested in picking sides to fight the other

Corona22:
My name is Ayomide ,obviously a Yoruba man. I’m a Christian and I have no political affiliation. This should not be important to clarify but that’s the current state of the country nowadays. I’ve spent most of life in the southwest , so my opinion will be shaped only by what I’ve experienced in the southwest alone.

I’m utterly disgusted and disappointed with the current state of affairs in our country today. How did we get it so wrong ? We’ve decided to pick sides and fight each other based on affiliations that mean nothing in the greater scheme of things for politicians that look at us as statistics and not people.


I supported Peter Obi because I wanted a breathe of fresh air , because Tinubu is obviously too old and physically unfit to withstand the rigors of being president. I’m not sure he can steer us in the right path in this ever evolving world as befits a country as great as Nigeria. He obviously belongs to an older generation and he doesn’t seem to have the capabilities to “converse” ( for the lack of a befitting word )with other world leaders of the world. That is my personal opinion that I’m entitled to, my constitutional right. I did not vote Obi because I’m Igbo or because I’m a Christian.

But Tinubu has won.

I’ll say this to the Igbos that are justifiably angry and bitter and have been insulting Yorubas ( I know a lot of Igbo people that have not insulted anyone and they have my respect and thanks and such people is exempt from this) , They are bad , tribalistic people in all tribes. Painting us all with the same brush will only create enemies where they was previously none.

I’m Yoruba. And when you attack the Yoruba tribe as a whole , you attack me as well and my natural inclination is to pick a side. Let this narrative that all Yoruba hate all Igbo die and let us all move on from this. Old people fight is not young people fight. Why are we inheriting our grandfathers beef ? The people that did evil against the Igbos are long dead and facing their judgement. This generation is meant to be different. Let it be so and let us have one Nigeria instead of a divided one
Peace

Obviously you are one of those Yoruba who wasn't taught history. Yoruba didn't offend Igbo at any given time or period in history, it was Igbo that offended the Yoruba since the beginning of Amalgamation, and are still doing it.

Well should expect anything better when you say Tinubu can't lead because he his old, and Peter can because he his yoot. A man at 50 and above.

Your opinion though and you are entitled to it

Benwallt:


Opolopo Ori awon Odo wa ti ye kuro lorun won.

Opolo temi o ye o
Lagbara Oloun , opolo temi o Deni ye. I’m just here educating myself on why people think the way they think and why they are the way they are. Dazzal Egbon. Oloun o no gba La’Kaye eyi na

immortalcrown:
First of all, Tinubu did not win. He stole someone's victory.

Second, inductive reasoning is bad. Any Igbo who condemns the entire Yoruba is stupid, likewise any Yoruba that condemns the entire Igbo.

Tinubu won!!!!!!!

It people like you that is cheering obi on to steal tinubu mandate. You guys will fail anyway.

Corona22:
You nauseate yourself , I’m no child , neither do I have to have the same mindset as you or form the same opinion. Biden that you mentioned is very sick and mentally unwell and is embarrassing the US on global stage , so for not wanting that for my people I’m a misinformed dreg ?

Sad

You are a hypocrite.

Corona22:
My name is Ayomide ,obviously a Yoruba man. I’m a Christian and I have no political affiliation. This should not be important to clarify but that’s the current state of the country nowadays. I’ve spent most of life in the southwest , so my opinion will be shaped only by what I’ve experienced in the southwest alone.

I’m utterly disgusted and disappointed with the current state of affairs in our country today. How did we get it so wrong ? We’ve decided to pick sides and fight each other based on affiliations that mean nothing in the greater scheme of things for politicians that look at us as statistics and not people.


I supported Peter Obi because I wanted a breathe of fresh air , because Tinubu is obviously too old and physically unfit to withstand the rigors of being president. I’m not sure he can steer us in the right path in this ever evolving world as befits a country as great as Nigeria. He obviously belongs to an older generation and he doesn’t seem to have the capabilities to “converse” ( for the lack of a befitting word )with other world leaders of the world. That is my personal opinion that I’m entitled to, my constitutional right. I did not vote Obi because I’m Igbo or because I’m a Christian.

But Tinubu has won.

I’ll say this to the Igbos that are justifiably angry and bitter and have been insulting Yorubas ( I know a lot of Igbo people that have not insulted anyone and they have my respect and thanks and such people is exempt from this) , They are bad , tribalistic people in all tribes. Painting us all with the same brush will only create enemies where they was previously none.

I’m Yoruba. And when you attack the Yoruba tribe as a whole , you attack me as well and my natural inclination is to pick a side. Let this narrative that all Yoruba hate all Igbo die and let us all move on from this. Old people fight is not young people fight. Why are we inheriting our grandfathers beef ? The people that did evil against the Igbos are long dead and facing their judgement. This generation is meant to be different. Let it be so and let us have one Nigeria instead of a divided one
Peace

Ayomide, note that no people did evil against the Igbos, they did evil to the rest of Nigeria, and turned back to play the victim card.

You may need to read up some history... The West, and North should be hangry, but they be all moved on, and forgive the Igbos, but ironically it's the Igbos still holding grudges.

Corona22:

Opolo temi o ye o
Lagbara Oloun , opolo temi o Deni ye. I’m just here educating myself on why people think the way they think and why they are the way they are. Dazzal Egbon. Oloun o no gba La’Kaye eyi na

Ah! Omoluabi. E JA ka fi inu konu, kafi imo sokan o. Awon olori pelebe yen fe dawalagbo nu ni.

Ma binu si nkan ti mo so tele. Kaaro

I’m actually a history student , and I do understand exactly what’s going from both sides, this is not my first time trying to converse with Igbo people , though the ones I spoke to are far more reasonable than the ones I’m speaking to here

Paretomaster1:


Ayomide, note that no people did evil against the Igbos, they did evil to the rest of Nigeria, and turned back to play the victim card.

You may need to read up some history... The West, and North should be hangry, but they be all moved on, and forgive the Igbos, but ironically it's the Igbos still holding grudges.

nonhuman:
at bolded is not true buhari is still alive, yakubu Gowon is alive, ibb is alife, Igbo never thought of having beef with Yoruba in real life, except for joking banter we see on nairaland, untill this election period, end Sara happens an opportunity for the youths to reset the country every one was determined both Yoruba and Igbo youth, all other tribes in the southern region we were all united to achieve a common goal endsars was basically taking part in all states across the south, first the politicians tried truncutaing with thugs which is clearly the trademark of people like tinubu, when they didn't succeed, they wventwd the word Yoruba Ronu whatever that means, that was how end SARS came to end, now they use the same tactics on election, and many Yoruba bought the mantra hook and sinker, and went ahead to carry it out physically, they are so many Yoruba Obidients in Lagos more than Igbo Obidients but when APC Yoruba started the tribalism the Yoruba Obidients and Yoruba liberals kept quiet, it was expected that thay to beging to expose the politicians at all angles but they left the job for only igbos until the deed was done

I have no ishi with your submission but as for the "Yoruba Ronu" ... let me spread some light

Yoruba ronu boils back to 1966 coup were the Nigeria youths in the military plan a revolution to take out the Leaders of the 3 tribes, the coup was led by chukuma Nzeogbu
at the end of the coup, prominent Ahmadu bello and akintola were killed among others but turns out Nnamdi Azikwe was spared .. the Igbo youths struck the 1st betrayal in Nigeria then.
But it didnt end there, the hausa orchestated the 2nd coup led by murtala in july 1966, yorubas lost another prominent Leader Adekunle fajuyi becos he tried to protect his visitor Johnson Aguiyi ironsi.

Yorubas were the only ones that lost in both coup 1966 and yorubas gained nothing from both coup ... so when you hear "Yoruba ronu" in my own interpretation its a call to yorubas not to follow follow .. because you might get to lose more than them

immortalcrown:
First of all, Tinubu did not win. He stole someone's victory.

Second, inductive reasoning is bad. Any Igbo who condemns the entire Yoruba is stupid, likewise any Yoruba that condemns the entire Igbo.

If Tinubu did not win, who win then?? Be realistic PLS, how did u even expect Obi to even come 2nd?? I predicted 3rd him, and that's what is it.

Corona22:
I’m actually a history student , and I do understand exactly what’s going from both sides, this is not my first time trying to converse with Igbo people , though the ones I spoke to are far more reasonable than the ones I’m speaking to here

Then why did u assert they evil was done against them??

They killed revered leaders from other regions, and set us on this part, each region would have make significant progress by now.

Because it was a war and they lost , millions of their people were killed , most of which did not even know what they were dying for. You are speaking from the perspective of the Victor not the vanquished. The vanquished are bitter and angry and that is absolutely normal

Paretomaster1:


Then why did u assert they evil was done against them??

They killed revered leaders from other regions, and set us on this part, each region would have make significant progress by now.

Corona22:
My name is Ayomide ,obviously a Yoruba man. I’m a Christian and I have no political affiliation. This should not be important to clarify but that’s the current state of the country nowadays. I’ve spent most of life in the southwest , so my opinion will be shaped only by what I’ve experienced in the southwest alone.

I’m utterly disgusted and disappointed with the current state of affairs in our country today. How did we get it so wrong ? We’ve decided to pick sides and fight each other based on affiliations that mean nothing in the greater scheme of things for politicians that look at us as statistics and not people.


I supported Peter Obi because I wanted a breathe of fresh air , because Tinubu is obviously too old and physically unfit to withstand the rigors of being president. I’m not sure he can steer us in the right path in this ever evolving world as befits a country as great as Nigeria. He obviously belongs to an older generation and he doesn’t seem to have the capabilities to “converse” ( for the lack of a befitting word )with other world leaders of the world. That is my personal opinion that I’m entitled to, my constitutional right. I did not vote Obi because I’m Igbo or because I’m a Christian.

But Tinubu has won.

I’ll say this to the Igbos that are justifiably angry and bitter and have been insulting Yorubas ( I know a lot of Igbo people that have not insulted anyone and they have my respect and thanks and such people is exempt from this) , They are bad , tribalistic people in all tribes. Painting us all with the same brush will only create enemies where they was previously none.

I’m Yoruba. And when you attack the Yoruba tribe as a whole , you attack me as well and my natural inclination is to pick a side. Let this narrative that all Yoruba hate all Igbo die and let us all move on from this. Old people fight is not young people fight. Why are we inheriting our grandfathers beef ? The people that did evil against the Igbos are long dead and facing their judgement. This generation is meant to be different. Let it be so and let us have one Nigeria instead of a divided one
Peace

Everyone knows that the plan is to humiliate the igbos on election day afterwards put a statement just like your leaders have done for damage control.
Where were you at the heat of the tribalism?

Many of you coming out now are nothing but hypocrites.

We have learnt our lessons and your attitude has proven our parents right.

Thank you.

DodadaKoKigbe:


The civil war originated from when Ibos initiated a coup where the killed Yoruba and Hausa leaders and did not kill a single Ibo leader. Without this, there wouldn't have been a war. Wars are easy to start but difficult to end.

And now today, okoros are beating the drum for another war because their son giringory lost an election fair and sqaure. He was not even 2nd, he was a distant 3rd. I'm glad because they cannot start this war outside of the south east. So, the military will just go to alaibo and crush the insurrection.

That's right, they forget easily...

Corona22:
Because it was a war and they lost , millions of their people were killed , most of which did not even know what they were dying for. You are speaking from the perspective of the Victor not the vanquished. The vanquished are bitter and angry and that is absolutely normal

Except for maybe children, there is no one that died in the eastern region in 1966 that didnt know what they died for, Ojukwu recruited civilians esp. youths from schools, infact most willingly joined the biafra army becos ojukwu decided not to force anybody, the new recruit were given 2days training and handed gun.
when igbos talk of Biafra you will see sense of pride and gladness that yes they fought Nigeria, infact they don't feel remorse they fought Nigeria, they are only bitter becos they lost. setting the record straight

Corona22:
My name is Ayomide ,obviously a Yoruba man. I’m a Christian and I have no political affiliation. This should not be important to clarify but that’s the current state of the country nowadays. I’ve spent most of life in the southwest , so my opinion will be shaped only by what I’ve experienced in the southwest alone.

I’m utterly disgusted and disappointed with the current state of affairs in our country today. How did we get it so wrong ? We’ve decided to pick sides and fight each other based on affiliations that mean nothing in the greater scheme of things for politicians that look at us as statistics and not people.


I supported Peter Obi because I wanted a breathe of fresh air , because Tinubu is obviously too old and physically unfit to withstand the rigors of being president. I’m not sure he can steer us in the right path in this ever evolving world as befits a country as great as Nigeria. He obviously belongs to an older generation and he doesn’t seem to have the capabilities to “converse” ( for the lack of a befitting word )with other world leaders of the world. That is my personal opinion that I’m entitled to, my constitutional right. I did not vote Obi because I’m Igbo or because I’m a Christian.

But Tinubu has won.

I’ll say this to the Igbos that are justifiably angry and bitter and have been insulting Yorubas ( I know a lot of Igbo people that have not insulted anyone and they have my respect and thanks and such people is exempt from this) , They are bad , tribalistic people in all tribes. Painting us all with the same brush will only create enemies where they was previously none.

I’m Yoruba. And when you attack the Yoruba tribe as a whole , you attack me as well and my natural inclination is to pick a side. Let this narrative that all Yoruba hate all Igbo die and let us all move on from this. Old people fight is not young people fight. Why are we inheriting our grandfathers beef ? The people that did evil against the Igbos are long dead and facing their judgement. This generation is meant to be different. Let it be so and let us have one Nigeria instead of a divided one
Peace

The question is "If you believe not all Yorubas hate and attack Igbos, why do you feel insulted when just a few uninformed Igbos attack Yorubas?" How Yorubas judge the entire Igbos from the attack of few over social media is annoying. Added to this is that APC created a lot of fake accounts to use tribalism to destabilize Obidient movement. The alarm was raised pre Election. I think you guys should quit falling for any propaganda.

Corona22:
Because it was a war and they lost , millions of their people were killed , most of which did not even know what they were dying for. You are speaking from the perspective of the Victor not the vanquished. The vanquished are bitter and angry and that is absolutely normal

What ate you saying?? The Nigeria Army did not lose soldiers?? That's why it's called a war, you can't determine the extend of damage once started.

If u must blame anyone, you blame the Igbos for starting what they can't finish.

Lol we are saying the exact same thing , my submission (and yours) goes both ways , if you read my comments on this thread you’ll see I’ve made it clear that I know not all Igbo people think like that…. And I’m not falling for any propaganda , what I think is my responsibility, I won’t put that in the hands of another person

SpecialAdviser:

The question is "If you believe not all Yorubas hate and attack Igbos, why do you feel insulted when just a few uninformed Igbos attack Yorubas?" How Yorubas judge the entire Igbos from the attack of few over social media is annoying. Added to this is that APC created a lot of fake accounts to use tribalism to destabilize Obidient movement. The alarm was raised pre Election. I think you guys should quit falling for any propaganda.

Ogbuefi2020:

It's the yoruba establishment that make it look so in order confuse the suffering masses and perpetuate themselves in power. The yoruba masses always fall for it, that's the problem

Your judgement is based on your perspective, but you're wrong. There is no such thing as the Yoruba establishment. It will be right to name it the Nigerian Political Establishment which makes the victims.

The Igbos are not saints in the political arena, they collude with the Yorubas and Northern counterparts for their own personal gains.

Or should I ask you... is NewestNigerian the reason for the struggles of a common Igbo man on the street?

We need to grow above blaming others for predicaments that we partake in, we need to build up a mind of responsibility. We need to stop blaming others for our collective mistakes.

Escarpon:

Why do you think only the aged, were leaders in the old days, its because of experience, Asiwaju has experience, Let him rule

Who are the aged that were leaders in then olden days and what are their ages?