klassd:


Wow this is a wild claim

Which countries tell their members to pray, instead of holding its leaders accountable? Poor African countries. Do you see western countries so it?

When a mortal man is supplicating the spirit realms it's called "PRAYER" in all other cultures people do make selfish demands but the God of Israel is the CREATOR of everything so you can't pray to Him for selfish reasons.
When white supremacists came to Africa they knew nothing about the God who is the Author of the book they're carrying so they told people lies with the intent of dominating our people. The gods our people worshiped are false like all others so instead of many to ask thought provoking questions regarding what those supremacists told them they thought they've found a better god through whom they can make their selfish demands.

So today most people are turning to atheism after seeing that they've been lied to but what they were told has nothing to do with the truth in Christ Jesus!

Nawttiboi007:
Prayer works for me

How exactly does prayer work for you? According to God, He does not answer any of the prayers of the unrighteous because their sins taint their every request rendering it an abomination to God. God does state, however, that He does answer all of the prayers of the righteous. So, if you claim God answers all of your prayers, what you are invariably telling us is that you are not only holy but you are also God-righteous. Is that so? Note that if you claim God only answers some of your prayers then it is instead the case that God does not answer any of your prayers — you only assume He does — and you are an unrighteous person still. (Either that or God is a liar.) So, which is it?

Wagwanbrethren:

There are a few points that need to be clarified before delving into the argument itself. The first is that the Quran is a religious text, not a historical document. Therefore, any mention of Jesus in the Quran does not automatically prove his existence. The second point is that, even if Jesus did exist, the Quran does not provide any historical information about him that could be used to verify his existence.

With that being said, let's explore why the mention of Jesus in the Quran does not prove his existence. To begin with, the Quran does not provide any specific information about Jesus that could be used to verify his existence. All that is said about him is that he was a prophet who was sent to preach the truth. There is no mention of his date of birth, his place of birth, his life story, or his death. This is a problem, because historical information about Jesus is needed in order to verify his existence.

Second, the Quran was written many centuries after Jesus is said to have lived. This means that any information about him in the Quran could have been distorted or embellished over time. In fact, there is evidence that the Quran does contain embellishments about Jesus. For example, the Quran claims that Jesus was able to perform miracles, such as healing the sick and raising the dead. However, there is no historical evidence that Jesus ever performed any miracles.

Third, the Quran was written in Arabic, and the vast majority of people who read it do not understand Arabic. This means that most people who read the Quran are not able to verify the accuracy of the information about Jesus that is contained in it.

Fourth, the Quran was written by a single author, who is not named. This means that there is no way to verify the accuracy of the information in it. In contrast, the New Testament was written by multiple authors, who are all named. This means that the New Testament can be verified more easily than the Quran.

Finally, the Quran is a religious text, not a historical document. Therefore, any mention of Jesus in the Quran does not automatically prove his existence. Do you understand now, son?

1. Taken on its own, aside from being part of a compendium of books put together at a later date by the Church, and called the Bible, what makes a given writing of the time discussing the life of Jesus ahistorical. What makes it different from any other writing.

2. Josephus mentioned Jesus and his activity I believe.

PS - I am not Christian. I am not religious. I do not pray to Jesus. Just saying because many tend to make assumptions once one argues a point.

DeepSight:


1. Taken on its own, aside from being part of a compendium of books put together at a later date by the Church, and called the Bible, what makes a given writing of the time discussing the life of Jesus ahistorical. What makes it different from any other writing.

2. Josephus mentioned Jesus and his activity I believe.

PS - I am not Christian. I am not religious. I do not pray to Jesus. Just saying because many tend to make assumptions once one argues a point.

Josephus deposition has been found to be falsified. What it means is that Christian apologists inserted Jesus notes into his writings

One thing for sure is that there's a great force behind human existence and its God almighty regardless ur religion and without sentiments, ur true religion is ur conscience and that conscience is God in you. Why do you feel evil doers prefers secrets and darkness and good is done in open and in the light? God isn't man, he's an extra ordinary being, he's ways are totally different from man, above all he's a merciful being so even if you're unrighteous and at that very moment u seek for forgiveness before him, he'll surely grant you. But you should know that no sinners goes unpunished,
a sinner will surely experience punishment one way or the other but his Grace is ever sufficient if you seek for his divine wisdom and intervention in his paths. Be wise God isn't and can never be foolish as Man

Kobojunkiee:
How exactly does prayer work for you? According to God, He does not answer any of the prayers of the unrighteous because their sins taint their every request rendering it an abomination to God. God does state, however, that He does answer all of the prayers of the righteous. So, if you claim God answers all of your prayers, what you are invariably telling us is that you are not only holy but you are also God-righteous. Is that so? Note that if you claim God only answers some of your prayers then it is instead the case that God does not answer any of your prayers — you only assume He does — and you are an unrighteous person still. (Either that or God is a liar.) So, which is it?

Nawttiboi007:
■ above all he's a merciful being so even if you're unrighteous and at that very moment u seek for forgiveness before he'll surely grant you. But you should no that no sinners goes unpunished,
a sinner will surely experience punishment one way or the other but his Grace is ever sufficient if you seek for his divine wisdom and intervention in his paths. Be wise God isn't and can never be foolish as Man

1. God said He does not answer the prayers of the unrighteous meaning that even their pleas for forgiveness go unanswered by Him because, again, their sins taint their requests rendering them unfilthy and unholy for Him to consider. So, is it that you don't believe what God says at all or that you think God changes His mind in some situations, which is it?.

Show me where you've come across it that God doesn't answer the prayers of the unrighteous ones even if they've seek for forgiveness?.. why did christ died on the cross of calvary?

Kobojunkiee:
1. God said He does not answer the prayers of the unrighteous meaning that even their pleas for forgiveness go unanswered by Him because, again, their sins taint their requests rendering them unfilthy and unholy for Him to consider. So, is it that you don't believe what God says at all or that you think God changes His mind in some situations, which is it?.

Nawttiboi007:
■ Show me where you've come across it that God doesn't answer the prayers of the unrighteousones even if they've seek for forgiveness?..
■ why did christ died on the cross of calvary?

https://www.nairaland.com/7110397/gospel-minddump/3#122064044

2. Christ died in order that you may have a path to redemption of your sins --- freedom from slavery to sin--- through Knowing Him, God's Truth, and as He said it is only through continuous submission and obedience to His teachings and commandments that you are eventually set free from slavery to sin I.e. made Holy by Him, God's Truth to become a Son of God - John 8 vs 31 - 36 . No amount of praying will cause God to forgive you your sin debts.

Be very careful so you don't face the wrath of God with ur misinformation

Kobojunkiee:
https://www.nairaland.com/7110397/gospel-minddump/3#122064044

2. Christ died in order that you may have a path to redemption of your sins --- freedom from slavery to sin--- through Knowing Him, God's Truth, and as He said it is only through continuous submission and obedience to His teachings and commandments that you are eventually set free from slavery to sin I.e. made Holy by Him, God's Truth to become a Son of God - John 8 vs 31 - 36 . No amount of praying will cause God to forgive you your sin debts.

Nawttiboi007:
Be very careful so you don't face the wrath of God with ur misinformation

I don't understand. What misinformation are you referring to?

What did you claimed John 8 vs 31-36 said? Guy be very careful

Kobojunkiee:
I don't understand. What misinformation are you referring to?

Nawttiboi007:
What did you claimed John 8 vs 31-36 said? Guy be very careful

Again, I ask you, what misinformation?

If you know u can't read to understand its advisable for you not to misinterpret.. omo no let God arrest u cos e fit bad for u gan for real

Kobojunkiee:
Again, I ask you, what misinformation?

Nawttiboi007:
If you know u can't read to understand its advisable for you not to misinterpret.. omo no let God arrest u cos e fit bad for u gan for real

Don't hide your inability to comprehend what is clearly written there behind my person abeg! And stop pretending God some sort of armor for your lack of comprehension.

You posted what is written yet somehow you cannot seem to read ans understand it, why? It is not written in angel speak but in English language.

Maybe you should consider a translation in simpler English.

Bro are you sure you're psychologically ok at all so??.. where is it written that no amount of plea for forgiveness that God isn't going to answer prayers?

Kobojunkiee:
Don't hide your inability to comprehend what is clearly written there behind my person abeg! And stop pretending God some sort of armor for your lack of comprehension.

You posted what is written yet somehow you cannot seem to read ans understand it, why? It is not written in angel speak but in English language.

Maybe you should consider a translation in simpler English.

DeepSight:


1. Taken on its own, aside from being part of a compendium of books put together at a later date by the Church, and called the Bible, what makes a given writing of the time discussing the life of Jesus ahistorical. What makes it different from any other writing.

2. Josephus mentioned Jesus and his activity I believe.

PS - I am not Christian. I am not religious. I do not pray to Jesus. Just saying because many tend to make assumptions once one argues a point.

1)There are a number of reasons why the Bible itself cannot be considered an historical book. First and foremost, the Bible contains numerous contradictions and discrepancies which render it unreliable as a historical source. For example, the Bible claims that the Israelites were in Egypt for 400 years, but archaeological evidence indicates that it might not be historically correct.

Second, the Bible was written centuries after the events it purports to describe, making it difficult, if not impossible, to verify its historical accuracy. The Gospels, for example, were written years after Jesus’ death(the one it describes), and the Book of Daniel was probably written years after the events it describes.

Third, the Bible was written by numerous authors who did not all agree on the facts. The Gospels, for example, were written by four different authors who often disagree on the details of Jesus’ life. The Book of Daniel, likewise, was probably written by multiple authors who often disagree on the details of the events it describes.

Fourth, the Bible is a religious book, not a historical book. It was written to promote religious beliefs, not to record historical events. As such, it is not a reliable source of information.

Finally, the Bible is not a primary source. It is a compilation of oral traditions and second-hand accounts, which means that it is not always reliable. Oral traditions are often inaccurate, and second-hand accounts can be distorted or embellished over time.
Therefore, the Bible should not be used as a source of historical information.

2) Josephus mentioning Jesus does not in any way prove his existence. First, it is possible that Josephus was simply repeating claims that were made about Jesus by others. Even if Josephus was referring to the Jesus of Christianity, it is possible that he was simply repeating hearsay and did not have any first-hand knowledge of Jesus himself. It's also possible that the passage in Josephus' book has been doctored or edited in some way. r.

Nawttiboi007:
■ Bro are you sure you're psychologically ok at all so??..

■ where is it written that no amount of plea for forgiveness that God isn't going to answer prayers?

1. Oh, finally you open up about your confusion which you mistake as misinformation. I posted a link which includes several passages indicating God does not answer prayers said by the unrighteous.

https://www.nairaland.com/7110397/gospel-minddump/3#122064044

2. When you ask for forgiveness, are you not hence praying? And are those not prayers that God made clear He does not answer so long as it is said by an unrighteous? Why do you need God to separately tell you that He will not answer even your pleas for forgiveness of sins when He already more than made Himself clear that He does not answer the prayers of the unrighteous?

Omo you need help... sorry unfortunately bro I'm not a psychologist

Kobojunkiee:
1. Oh, finally you open up about your confusion which you mistake as misinformation. I posted a link which includes several passages indicating God does not answer prayers said by the unrighteous.

https://www.nairaland.com/7110397/gospel-minddump/3#122064044

2. When you ask for forgiveness, are you not hence praying? And are those not prayers that God made clear He does not answer so long as it is said by an unrighteous? Why do you need God to separately tell you that He will not answer even your pleas for forgiveness of sins when He already more than made Himself clear that He does not answer the prayers of the unrighteous?

Nawttiboi007:
Omo you need help... sorry unfortunately bro I'm not a psychologist

Let me guess, even those passages posted on thread don't make sense to you and you think insulting me will make you feel better?.

Wagwanbrethren:

1)There are a number of reasons why the Bible itself cannot be considered an historical book. First and foremost, the Bible contains numerous contradictions and discrepancies which render it unreliable as a historical source. For example, the Bible claims that the Israelites were in Egypt for 400 years, but archaeological evidence indicates that it might not be historically correct.

Second, the Bible was written centuries after the events it purports to describe, making it difficult, if not impossible, to verify its historical accuracy. The Gospels, for example, were written years after Jesus’ death(the one it describes), and the Book of Daniel was probably written years after the events it describes.

Third, the Bible was written by numerous authors who did not all agree on the facts. The Gospels, for example, were written by four different authors who often disagree on the details of Jesus’ life. The Book of Daniel, likewise, was probably written by multiple authors who often disagree on the details of the events it describes.

Fourth, the Bible is a religious book, not a historical book. It was written to promote religious beliefs, not to record historical events. As such, it is not a reliable source of information.

Finally, the Bible is not a primary source. It is a compilation of oral traditions and second-hand accounts, which means that it is not always reliable. Oral traditions are often inaccurate, and second-hand accounts can be distorted or embellished over time.
Therefore, the Bible should not be used as a source of historical information.

2) Josephus mentioning Jesus does not in any way prove his existence. First, it is possible that Josephus was simply repeating claims that were made about Jesus by others. Even if Josephus was referring to the Jesus of Christianity, it is possible that he was simply repeating hearsay and did not have any first-hand knowledge of Jesus himself. It's also possible that the passage in Josephus' book has been doctored or edited in some way. r.

It appears you chose to completely ignore my words where I said... "Taken on its own, aside from being part of a compendium of books put together at a later date by the Church, and called the Bible...."

Much of what we know and accept of history comes from simple ancient writings. I still don't see grounds to dismiss all the writings about Jesus simply on the grounds that they are religious. In this pls note that there are hundreds of writings about him, only four were chosen by the church and made canonical.

jaephoenix:

Josephus deposition has been found to be falsified. What it means is that Christian apologists inserted Jesus notes into his writings

This is much debated, but even if conceded, my first question remains.

Much of what we know and accept of history comes from simple ancient writings. I still don't see grounds to dismiss all the writings about Jesus simply on the grounds that they are religious. In this pls note that there are hundreds of writings about him, only four were chosen by the church and made canonical.

Pray for forgiveness from God almighty irrespective of your religion.. I'm not about Christianity or Islam and so on .. all I believe is God almighty and he answers prayers if you're sincere and don't always think you can be smarter than him. And meanwhile my belief is Christianity that's the way I was brought to reach out to God almighty

Kobojunkiee:
Let me guess, even those passages posted on thread don't make sense to you and you think insulting me will make you feel better?.

Nawttiboi007:
One thing for sure is that there's a great force behind human existence and its God almighty regardless ur religion and without sentiments, ur true religion is ur conscience and that conscience is God in you. Why do you feel evil doers prefers secrets and darkness and good is done in open and in the light? God isn't man, he's an extra ordinary being, he's ways are totally different from man, above all he's a merciful being so even if you're unrighteous and at that very moment u seek for forgiveness before him, he'll surely grant you. But you should know that no sinners goes unpunished,
a sinner will surely experience punishment one way or the other but his Grace is ever sufficient if you seek for his divine wisdom and intervention in his paths. Be wise God isn't and can never be foolish as Man

Which god are you on about? Allah, Thor, Flying Spaghetti Monster, Yahweh, Brahma?

U can define your god.. but God almighty lives in ur conscience

jaephoenix:

Which god are you on about? Allah, Thor, Flying Spaghetti Monster, Yahweh, Brahma?

DeepSight:


It appears you chose to completely ignore my words where I said... "Taken on its own, aside from being part of a compendium of books put together at a later date by the Church, and called the Bible...."

Much of what we know and accept of history comes from simple ancient writings. I still don't see grounds to dismiss all the writings about Jesus simply on the grounds that they are religious. In this pls note that there are hundreds of writings about him, only four were chosen by the church and made canonical.

Religious books cannot be used as historical sources because of the dangers of embellishments. If you use the bible as a historical source, you might as well use the Qoran, Veda etc. It won't be fair on all

DeepSight:


This is much debated, but even if conceded, my first question remains.

Much of what we know and accept of history comes from simple ancient writings. I still don't see grounds to dismiss all the writings about Jesus simply on the grounds that they are religious. In this pls note that there are hundreds of writings about him, only four were chosen by the church and made canonical.

Can you point me to the source of these writings?

Nawttiboi007:
Pray for forgiveness from God almighty irrespective of your religion.. I'm not about Christianity or Islam and so on .. all I believe is God almighty and he answers prayers if you're sincere and don't always think you can be smarter than him. And meanwhile my belief is Christianity that's the way I was brought to reach out to God almighty

Obviously youre a christian. Quit lying

Nawttiboi007:
U can define your god.. but God almighty lives in ur conscience

Well, unfortunately, I have scoured my conscience and no god happens to be chilling inside it. What now?

I'm sorry I can't help you, only God almighty can

jaephoenix:

Well, unfortunately, I have scoured my conscience and no god happens to be chilling inside it. What now?

Nawttiboi007:
■ Pray for forgiveness from God almighty irrespective of your religion.. I'm not about Christianity or Islam and so on .. all I believe is God almighty and he answers prayers if you're sincere and don't always think you can be smarter than him.
■ And meanwhile my belief is Christianity that's the way I was brought to reach out to God almighty

1. Stop deceiving yourself! If the Words of the God whom you claim to believe in mean absolutely nothing to you then all you are doing is spreading lies using His name.

2. Well, as Jesus Christ Himself made clear, the doctrines and traditions of men(your pastors and mogs) upon which your religion is founded are nothing but lies to deceive and delude many away from following God's Truth. So no wonder you were repulsed by the truth of God.

jaephoenix:

Religious books cannot be used as historical sources because of the dangers of embellishments. If you use the bible as a historical source, you might as well use the Qoran, Veda etc. It won't be fair on all

You don't seem to have grasped the pith of what I am saying.

I am not putting the Bible forward as a singular work. It is not even a singular work. It is a compilation of many disparate works.

My point is, there are hundreds of writings about Jesus, only four are included in the bible.

Why are all those writings automatically disqualified simply because they are religious. There are too many to discountenance and they are not all in the Bible.

Furthermore, there are books in the Bible that are not just of a religious nature. Several books chronicle events that can be shown to be historical, such as the destruction of Jerusalem. I don't think it makes sense to dismiss everything there on the simple ground that it's religious writing.

I would not do thia even for the Vedas. Look, I would not do it even for writings presumed to be myths suxh as the writings about Troy by Homer. We should research carefully rather than make blanket presumptions.

Mind you, I do not believe the Bible to be innerrant truth, and it is not my creed by any stretch of the imagination nor do I believe in the concept of God it advances, which I consider hideous.