Actually the richer and more populated a church is the more suspicious they are to me. Not that all of them are dodgy, but to me most are. Especially those that confuse higher income and higher population with progress in ministry.

RecentHistory:
This is what made Christ Embassy ladies the cheapest commodities back then in the University.

They believe that one should do everything humanly possible to bring people to church, including seduction if necessary.

Hmm.

jesusjnr2020:
I don't agree with you because that goes contrary to the example and teachings of Christ since Christ never did that or encouraged such.

Instructing them to preach the Gospel is not the same thing as setting attendance targets. It's like saying man plants... and man gives or determines the increase, not God. It's not up to man to determine that except to follow the example and teaching of Jesus including preaching the Gospel as He instructed us to do. That alone should be the target. Anything else like setting result or attendance targets is misguided and could only lead to compromising that target because preaching of the Gospel doesn guarantee winning of souls.

There are some places Jesus Himself preached and they wanted to stone Him. Some, the whole nation embraced Him. Hence the result of our preaching shouldn't be our priority but to preach the Gospel otherwise we may get discouraged and lose the real target.

Thanks for sharing your view though. God bless you.

I clearly stated that the way they went about the standards is what I didn't like, but I see nothing wrong with setting standards. Christ Himself gives us gifts to use in drawing men into His kingdom and I also stated that they needed the help of the Holy Spirit in my first comment, so there was no way I expected them to win souls by merely preaching the word.

The will of God for us as Christians is to bear fruits in all aspects including soul winning..
Matthew 21 vs 42 - Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 - Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 - And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.



The scriptures I posted above are the words of Christ you so much love, because I know you'd not accept any other but the very words of Christ. The reason revival comes upon the body of christ is to win souls through the help of the Holy Spirit and that's why gifts of the Spirit are distributed to the body of Christ.



Jesus told His disciples to go and make disciples in Matthew 28: 18- 20. You can only make disciples when they've been convinced enough to accept Christ and turned from darkness to light. This means that the standard was set by Christ Himself and not mere mortals.

If you disagree with me, you'd have to convince me with scriptures and not ordinary head knowledge. The scriptures are our guide and not opinions of men. Your opinion holds no water if it contradicts scriptures and the very words of Christ you so much hold unto.


Shalom

Kukutenla:

Sorry Sir, are you a Christian? Even a baby Christian knows paying tithes and offerings is a responsibility for every member. If you have 20 members and they pay 1000 each as tithes. If God adds 5 members to the church and those 5 pay 500 each. Has the church finances improved or not?
Can you quote the scripture you're referring to that negates above.
As I have pointed out, the op is very wrong. The issue of setting target is doctrinal and I don't see how he's in a position to be judging a church's doctrine based on his personal standards.

Offering yes.
Tithes, payable to Levites.
Is your Gentile Pastor a Levite?
Numbers 18:21-26.

Tithes were income taxes collected when Israel operated a theocracy and the Religious leaders ruled the land.

blahc007:


You were making sense until the @bolded.
Let me assume I don't understand what you mean.

Nobody needs a pastor to access God, maybe you should find out the purpose of Pastors and other spiritual offices here Eph.4:10-13

Forgive me if I derailed...but still read the scripture

Those pastors should go and find jobs and stop living off people.

RecentHistory:


Offering yes.
Tithes, payable to Levites.
Is your Gentile Pastor a Levite?
Numbers 18:21-26.

Tithes were income taxes collected when Israel operated a theocracy and the Religious leaders ruled the land.

Whichever way, the church's finance will improve.
I believe based on new testament precedent, tithe is even too little to pay since you want to go that way.

Majesty7:


That is why it is no longer a church but a business center hence the force to have more members. That shows winning soul is just for their own gains.

I am Christian. A follower of Christ.

If you are a follower of Christ, his teachings won't sound odd to you. Thank you

You're a Christian. That's good enough. Church is in the business of winning souls for Christ just as a business is winning profit.
Even the op never accused the churches of using "force". You just brought that in yourself.
My point is you can't quote any scripture that negates setting targets for soul winning.
You and the op are forming judges on how others perceive evangelism when you have not shown that you have done evangelical work better. That's the hypocrisy Jesus talked about in pharisees.

jesusjnr2020:
Worldly Targets Set By Churches: How My Friend Began Preaching Rubbish

Ever since I became born-again and began to walk closely with God, I have always thought the practice of setting attendance or financial targets by churches and their leaders for those under their leadership was erroneous.

I believed it was a worldly practice that had nothing to do with God, hence if the church embraced such it would only end up derailing the church from its original values and standard.

I once had a friend who was a dedicated member of Christ Embassy, one of the denominations guilty of this practice, so when this topic came up during our conversations, I expressed my disapproval of such a policy in the church. But despite being a very devoted and committed member of the Church, he honestly admitted that such targets made him to start preaching what he ought not when he held a leadership position under the church.

He bowed to the pressure of meeting such targets set for him by his leaders and began preaching something else which he thought would enable him meet those targets when preaching the right thing couldn't.

I wasn't much surprised though about that because I knew very well that such was inevitable, considering that such targets were worldly and not of God, so it was only going to lead to compromising and going contrary to the things of God, since the things of this world were opposed to the things of God.

This is the same kind of targets set by some financial institutions to their employees that would make them to start going to ridiculous lengths, including sleeping with some of their clients, to meet them.

This is what has being embraced by a significant part of the church which ought to be in this world but not to the world.

That's why I don't get impressed with the mammoth crowds attending some churches and the amount of money they generate as a result.

It's much easier to achieve similar results by preaching the nonsense people want to hear rather than the Truth and Words of the Spirit.

If it were by preaching rubbish as it is the case in most of such churches, many of the disciples who left Jesus because of the Words of the Spirit He preached, would have never left Him.

They would have remained in the church at the expense of spiritual quality, which is more or less the result of the church we have today.

That's why I don't judge a church by the amount of members or riches they have, but how much they follow the example and teachings of Christ, because that's the only true standard that determines how successful a church is in the sight of God.

God bless.

Your friend and you are very wrong. How does certain target by a church would make someone to preach rubbish, that doesn't make sense at all. When you don't understand Christianity that you think that figures don't matter. When you study the scripture you will understand importance of numbers and why churches do that and it's scriptural. When Jesus gave example of the talents, he gave numbers of what was given to them and what they brought back to him. Acts Chapter 2 gave you the numbers of people who acceptable the gospel, chapter 5 have you that multitude of people the next chapter a great multitude of people. You will see also in acts when the scripture said that the saints multiplied in the City. That means they were taking stoke of what was happening. That means they were taking record of what was going on with the church. When you don't understand Christianity you start seeing this as an issue.
Luke 14:21 So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind.’
Luke 14:22 And the servant said, ‘Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.’
Luke 14:23 Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
This parable is about the kingdom. The house of God most be full. What is even wrong with certain target in the first place. Target gives direction, it shows you what we want then you devise means to make it work. As for christians your faith is all that you need. Then you back your faith with lots of prayer, studying the word and yielding yourself to the spirit. When you work by the flesh or by your strength you start having problem.

Lastly nobody go kill you if you don't meet church targets at the end. I have been in Christ Embassy for 18 years now, nobody don do me anything for not meeting whatever target. Na God all of us they serve the target is to give us direction and to work with. Mine is to give myself to prayer and the ministry of the spirit to get things done. This target has led to the promotion of many by God. Right now some people you don't give them target they tell you what they want to do. Na pastor dey tell them say Brother are you sure.

jesusjnr2020:
Worldly Targets Set By Churches: How My Friend Began Preaching Rubbish

Ever since I became born-again and began to walk closely with God, I have always thought the practice of setting attendance or financial targets by churches and their leaders for those under their leadership was erroneous.

I believed it was a worldly practice that had nothing to do with God, hence if the church embraced such it would only end up derailing the church from its original values and standard.

I once had a friend who was a dedicated member of Christ Embassy, one of the denominations guilty of this practice, so when this topic came up during our conversations, I expressed my disapproval of such a policy in the church. But despite being a very devoted and committed member of the Church, he honestly admitted that such targets made him to start preaching what he ought not when he held a leadership position under the church.

He bowed to the pressure of meeting such targets set for him by his leaders and began preaching something else which he thought would enable him meet those targets when preaching the right thing couldn't.

I wasn't much surprised though about that because I knew very well that such was inevitable, considering that such targets were worldly and not of God, so it was only going to lead to compromising and going contrary to the things of God, since the things of this world were opposed to the things of God.

This is the same kind of targets set by some financial institutions to their employees that would make them to start going to ridiculous lengths, including sleeping with some of their clients, to meet them.

This is what has being embraced by a significant part of the church which ought to be in this world but not to the world.

That's why I don't get impressed with the mammoth crowds attending some churches and the amount of money they generate as a result.

It's much easier to achieve similar results by preaching the nonsense people want to hear rather than the Truth and Words of the Spirit.

If it were by preaching rubbish as it is the case in most of such churches, many of the disciples who left Jesus because of the Words of the Spirit He preached, would have never left Him.

They would have remained in the church at the expense of spiritual quality, which is more or less the result of the church we have today.

That's why I don't judge a church by the amount of members or riches they have, but how much they follow the example and teachings of Christ, because that's the only true standard that determines how successful a church is in the sight of God.

God bless.

The sad reality

RecentHistory:


Offering yes.
Tithes, payable to Levites.
Is your Gentile Pastor a Levite?
Numbers 18:21-26.

Tithes were income taxes collected when Israel operated a theocracy and the Religious leaders ruled the land.

When you understand scripture properly then you will know that the pastors are like the Levite of today. Do you understand the priestly ministry of old and how it's now.

Kukutenla:

You're a Christian. That's good enough. Church is in the business of winning souls for Christ just as a business is winning profit.
Even the op never accused the churches of using "force". You just brought that in yourself.
My point is you can't quote any scripture that negates setting targets for soul winning.
You and the op are forming judges on how others perceive evangelism when you have not shown that you have done evangelical work better. That's the hypocrisy Jesus talked about in pharisees.

The problem is that you are not ready to learn and so be it. We are cut from different coat and I am not blaming you from not seeing from the supposed angle.

With your own teaching, Jesus SHOULD have billed the more than 5,000 he fed when he ministered to them, right?

I understand you but I wish you can follow Christ teachings. There is no harm in being a Judaism. We serve the same God. Hiding behind Christ while being a core Judaism is what I normally found as being a hypocrite. JESUS didn't teach us that way. You are free to learn more. Thank you

ogascomax:



Your friend and you are very wrong. How does certain target by a church would make someone to preach rubbish, that doesn't make sense at all. When you don't understand Christianity that you think that figures don't matter. When you study the scripture you will understand importance of numbers and why churches do that and it's scriptural. When Jesus gave example of the talents, he gave numbers of what was given to them and what they brought back to him. Acts Chapter 2 gave you the numbers of people who acceptable the gospel, chapter 5 have you that multitude of people the next chapter a great multitude of people. You will see also in acts when the scripture said that the saints multiplied in the City. That means they were taking stoke of what was happening. That means they were taking record of what was going on with the church. When you don't understand Christianity you start seeing this as an issue.
Luke 14:21 So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind.’
Luke 14:22 And the servant said, ‘Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.’
Luke 14:23 Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
This parable is about the kingdom. The house of God most be full. What is even wrong with certain target in the first place. Target gives direction, it shows you what we want then you devise means to make it work. As for christians your faith is all that you need. Then you back your faith with lots of prayer, studying the word and yielding yourself to the spirit. When you work by the flesh or by your strength you start having problem.

Lastly nobody go kill you if you don't meet church targets at the end. I have been in Christ Embassy for 18 years now, nobody don do me anything for not meeting whatever target. Na God all of us they serve the target is to give us direction and to work with. Mine is to give myself to prayer and the ministry of the spirit to get things done. This target has led to the promotion of many by God. Right now some people you don't give them target they tell you what they want to do. Na pastor dey tell them say Brother are you sure.

Why i even disagree with the op is that most pastors in Christ embassy are part time. So nobody really forces them to do anything. If you don't like what you're being asked to do, just leave! So preaching rubbish because your church gave you target is really because he himself is not well grounded in the first place

Majesty7:


The problem is that you are not ready to learn and so be it. We are cut from different coat and I am not blaming you from not seeing from the supposed angle.

With your own teaching, Jesus SHOULD have billed the more than 5,000 he fed when he ministered to them, right?

I understand you but I wish you can follow Christ teachings. There is no harm in being a Judaism. We serve the same God. Hiding behind Christ while being a core Judaism is what I normally found as being a hypocrite. JESUS didn't teach us that way. You are free to learn more. Thank you

I really don't understand your analogy. If you see paying tithes and/ or offering as bills, then you really need to examine your Christianity.
Are you aware Jesus also received free gifts of men while he was on earth? A few examples:
The woman who anointed him with expensive perfume
The donkey he used for triumphant entry into Jerusalem
The room where they ate the last supper
I wonder if you saw those as bills Jesus collected from people, then I wonder what you see Jesus as.
The new converts sold all that they had and donated to the apostles in Acts. That will be billing to you.

Emaprince:
You are contradicting your self though.

Your last line is exactly what he was trying to pass across.

The whole target thing was designed to win more members which translates to financial influx.
Most churches only preach about breakthrough which pleases audiences. That's when they shout the most amen. Or preach about women getting married this year and watch them shout a deafening amen.

But preach only about lifestyles that will earn you a place in heaven..and watch your congregation get reduced drastically. People don't want you to tell them that they are making money the wrong way..and might end up in hell for it. They want you to tell them that this year they will become millionaires. Women don't want to hear you talking about the way they dress these days in their endless quest for attention from opposite sex. Just tell them that one's dress style doesn't matter, it is what she has in her heart. Lol.

I am not a CE member but since 2020, Pastor Chris of CE has preached and taught more about the Rapture, the end times and how believers should prepare, more than any other popular Nigerian Televangelist. Makes me wonder what people really want.

There's a young man with absolutely no parents in Ondo State, who had since accepted the call of God on his life going through thick and thin to fulfill God's purpose. Not many know him now but I follow him on FB. Tomorrow, when God blesses him and he becomes as impactful as the popular ones we know, y'all will start screaming "prosperity preacher" forgetting the days and years he's been following God's instructions by reaching out to meet set soul winning targets. Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will gather.

Check out AS Marvellous up on FB.

I am not a church person in terms of calling as I function better in market place ministries like the FGBMFI but I think it is absolutely wrong for professed believers to criticize the church in the public domain. You can't pull down a family you belong to in public. There are adequate internal mechanisms that can be engaged to tackle such issues of concern and most importantly, the Founder of His Church knows how best to deal with His ministers.. that's God.

Everytime you say a single negative thing about the church publicly, you're simply jumping on the devil's side to attack the church and you know what Jesus said? The gates of hell won't (can't, it is impossible) prevail against her. Many tried before you came, but the Church is still standing. So, it will forever untill the coming of The Lord.

Kukutenla:

I really don't understand your analogy. If you see paying tithes and/ or offering as bills, then you really need to examine your Christianity.
Are you aware Jesus also received free gifts of men while he was on earth? A few examples:
The woman who anointed him with expensive perfume
The donkey he used for triumphant entry into Jerusalem
The room where they ate the last supper
I wonder if you saw those as bills Jesus collected from people, then I wonder what you see Jesus as.
The new converts sold all that they had and donated to the apostles in Acts. That will be billing to you.

Is that what you can deduce? Okay. Peter STARTED the Church of Christ. He laid the foundation after the ascension of Christ. Now, what is the foundation of a Christ-Like Church? A Christ Like gives everything to a new convert and make them feel as the family and when they are deeply rooted, they also gives to the gatherings.

Sequel to your claim that Ananais and Saphira were new converts, that was a mistake on your side. They were not new converts.

The process whereby the foundation has been tampered with by mostly Nigerian preacher is bringing ridicule to the body if Christ.

While they donate their belongings was to make no one in the body of Christ has a lack. Not them collecting. They share.

There is different between collecting and sharing.

How I wish you understand. Thank you

And in regards to your bills, Christ didn't pay any bill. It was either a gift or collective contribution. Don't twist the gospel please

mbaise1000:

I know also that both redeem and winners churches also set target for the amount of money their branches must be paying in, and many other churches are doing same, but these should not discourage people from looking to do the right thing, the problem is that people are so empty that they will not see that they are in the wrong places, one thing clear is that wherever these types of things happening, there is no spirit of God there, because TRUE Christians are left by the spirit of Jesus, no TRUE Christian will be comfortable in such places, and I am not among THOSE that advertise for churches, I believe that God will lead any sincere person to the right church, no one invited me to where I worship now and this nonsense doesn't happen there

Are you sure rccg set target on amount to be payed by the branches?I am shocked. I know the branches pay remittance to province monthly and no target.

enthronedbyGod1:


I clearly stated that the way they went about the standards is what I didn't like, but I see nothing wrong with setting standards. Christ Himself gives us gifts to use in drawing men into His kingdom and I also stated that they needed the help of the Holy Spirit in my first comment, so there was no way I expected them to win souls by merely preaching the word.

The will of God for us as Christians is to bear fruits in all aspects including soul winning..
Matthew 21 vs 42 - Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 - Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 - And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.



The scriptures I posted above are the words of Christ you so much love, because I know you'd not accept any other but the very words of Christ. The reason revival comes upon the body of christ is to win souls through the help of the Holy Spirit and that's why gifts of the Spirit are distributed to the body of Christ.



Jesus told His disciples to go and make disciples in Matthew 28: 18- 20. You can only make disciples when they've been convinced enough to accept Christ and turned from darkness to light. This means that the standard was set by Christ Himself and not mere mortals.

If you disagree with me, you'd have to convince me with scriptures and not ordinary head knowledge. The scriptures are our guide and not opinions of men. Your opinion holds no water if it contradicts scriptures and the very words of Christ you so much hold unto.

If you don't convince me with scriptures I'd ignore further comments.

Shalom

I'm not going to try to convince you with scriptures because even if I did, you'd still choose to believe what you wanted. Some of the scriptures you often quote were from head knowledge of some apostles which went contrary to the teachings of Christ, but you still accept them regardless because they came from apostles of Christ. They're no different from the true apostles of this day, including my humble self, even if you chose not to accord us the same respect.

Your idea I wouldn't accept any other words but that of Christ is misinformed, because I only reject any teaching that contradict His teachings whether from the Bible or not. That doesn't mean I don't accept those which align with it, except you allow sentiments to guide your judgement.

The scriptures you quoted so far though actually justifies my point as they had nothing to do with setting attendance targets. You first quoted what Jesus said about preaching the Gospel to every creature which I have already addressed. Now you quoted that about bringing fruits which actually has to obedience of the Word (seed) which is sown as a seed into someone's life. It's by obedience of the Word that someone bring fruits of the Word not something else, hence John saying, "bring fruits worthy of repentance" and Jesus also said, "any tree that does not bring forth good fruits shall be cut down".

And that of "making disciples" is actually a misleading translation because what Jesus actually said was, "teach all men to observe to do whatever I commanded you" which is more or less "preach the Gospel to every creature" as another author put it.

So there's nothing about setting attendance targets in all you quoted this far except the only targets Jesus set for His disciples which is to bear fruits of the Word by obedience, and to preach or sow the Word of God so that others could also hear it and bear fruits by obedience of it.

That's the essence of preaching the Gospel to all creature which is the job or target God gave to man, not to set attendance targets of a church.

Jesus Himself sent a lot a people to preach the Gospel and there was not once He told them, this is the amount of souls I expect from you. He even told them if they were rejected anywhere they were sent to, they should leave and preach in the next towns. Call that head knowledge but you can't deny the fact that's the Truth.

So kindly show me where Jesus who ought to be the example of Christians, set such targets for His disciples as is commonly done these days in the churches otherwise you have made no case for such practice.

God bless you.

Op why did U mentioned just one church. It seems you have something against them.

It would 've been better you mention 3 to 4 names of churches that practice such or skip the name entirely.

Though you have a good message, the bible stand ....

" Judge not"

denzel231:
The only pastor I listen to is Apostle Arome Osayi.

God bless him

jesusjnr2020:
I don't agree with you because that goes contrary to the example and teachings of Christ since Christ never did that or encouraged such.

Instructing them to preach the Gospel is not the same thing as setting attendance targets. It's like saying man plants... and man gives or determines the increase, not God. It's not up to man to determine that except to follow the example and teaching of Jesus including preaching the Gospel as He instructed us to do. That alone should be the target. Anything else like setting result or attendance targets is misguided and could only lead to compromising that target because preaching of the Gospel doesn guarantee winning of souls.

There are some places Jesus Himself preached and they wanted to stone Him. Some, the whole nation embraced Him. Hence the result of our preaching shouldn't be our priority but to preach the Gospel otherwise we may get discouraged and lose the real target.

Thanks for sharing your view though. God bless you.

You make perfect sense there.

Me i have always sensed that churches setting attendance and financial target to members is ungodly, unspiritual and unscriptural.

I would rather reject a leadership position in a church or even stop going to church altogether than succumb to the pressure of meeting any kind of target set by the church authority.

RecentHistory:
This is what made Christ Embassy ladies the cheapest commodities back then in the University.

They believe that one should do everything humanly possible to bring people to church, including seduction if necessary.

You are very wrong.

chatinent:
What’s the rubbish being preached?

Ask him...

whizbee:
Only clowns cannot apply wisdom in their dealings with churches. Once I see money as a daily point in preachings, I move.

Rather than refer to your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ as Clowns, why not call them babes instead as the new testament does?

Why not point out that excessive emphasis on material prosperity and finances is erroneous and recommend resources or other preachers and teachers that preach more balanced and Christ focused messages??

The little you do will be rewarded by Jesus

EvangDrGeo:



You are very wrong.

How do you know he's very wrong? Because I don't know that OP and I have lived on some campuses and there's an element of truth to his words, both witnessed and heard

jesusjnr2020:
Worldly Targets Set By Churches: How My Friend Began Preaching Rubbish

Ever since I became born-again and began to walk closely with God, I have always thought the practice of setting attendance or financial targets by churches and their leaders for those under their leadership was erroneous.

I believed it was a worldly practice that had nothing to do with God, hence if the church embraced such it would only end up derailing the church from its original values and standard.

I once had a friend who was a dedicated member of Christ Embassy, one of the denominations guilty of this practice, so when this topic came up during our conversations, I expressed my disapproval of such a policy in the church. But despite being a very devoted and committed member of the Church, he honestly admitted that such targets made him to start preaching what he ought not when he held a leadership position under the church.

He bowed to the pressure of meeting such targets set for him by his leaders and began preaching something else which he thought would enable him meet those targets when preaching the right thing couldn't.

I wasn't much surprised though about that because I knew very well that such was inevitable, considering that such targets were worldly and not of God, so it was only going to lead to compromising and going contrary to the things of God, since the things of this world were opposed to the things of God.

This is the same kind of targets set by some financial institutions to their employees that would make them to start going to ridiculous lengths, including sleeping with some of their clients, to meet them.

This is what has being embraced by a significant part of the church which ought to be in this world but not to the world.

That's why I don't get impressed with the mammoth crowds attending some churches and the amount of money they generate as a result.

It's much easier to achieve similar results by preaching the nonsense people want to hear rather than the Truth and Words of the Spirit.

If it were by preaching rubbish as it is the case in most of such churches, many of the disciples who left Jesus because of the Words of the Spirit He preached, would have never left Him.

They would have remained in the church at the expense of spiritual quality, which is more or less the result of the church we have today.

That's why I don't judge a church by the amount of members or riches they have, but how much they follow the example and teachings of Christ, because that's the only true standard that determines how successful a church is in the sight of God.

God bless.

Don't confuse yourself.

No member in Christ Embassy church gives ad much as his Pastor gives.

Christ Embassy Pastors all have what they do for a living aside ministry, except when they become zonal Pastors in some cases.

Go and find out, before criticising a demonstration as if your own is perfect.

Mention your denomination here and see if they are perfect.

Lastly, the targets been set in Christ Embassy Churches are met more by the Pastors themselves because they have to work their faith too and in most cases have their personal work they do apart from being Pastors.

jesusjnr2020:
Worldly Targets Set By Churches: How My Friend Began Preaching Rubbish

Ever since I became born-again and began to walk closely with God, I have always thought the practice of setting attendance or financial targets by churches and their leaders for those under their leadership was erroneous.

I believed it was a worldly practice that had nothing to do with God, hence if the church embraced such it would only end up derailing the church from its original values and standard.

I once had a friend who was a dedicated member of Christ Embassy, one of the denominations guilty of this practice, so when this topic came up during our conversations, I expressed my disapproval of such a policy in the church. But despite being a very devoted and committed member of the Church, he honestly admitted that such targets made him to start preaching what he ought not when he held a leadership position under the church.

He bowed to the pressure of meeting such targets set for him by his leaders and began preaching something else which he thought would enable him meet those targets when preaching the right thing couldn't.

I wasn't much surprised though about that because I knew very well that such was inevitable, considering that such targets were worldly and not of God, so it was only going to lead to compromising and going contrary to the things of God, since the things of this world were opposed to the things of God.

This is the same kind of targets set by some financial institutions to their employees that would make them to start going to ridiculous lengths, including sleeping with some of their clients, to meet them.

This is what has being embraced by a significant part of the church which ought to be in this world but not to the world.

That's why I don't get impressed with the mammoth crowds attending some churches and the amount of money they generate as a result.

It's much easier to achieve similar results by preaching the nonsense people want to hear rather than the Truth and Words of the Spirit.

If it were by preaching rubbish as it is the case in most of such churches, many of the disciples who left Jesus because of the Words of the Spirit He preached, would have never left Him.

They would have remained in the church at the expense of spiritual quality, which is more or less the result of the church we have today.

That's why I don't judge a church by the amount of members or riches they have, but how much they follow the example and teachings of Christ, because that's the only true standard that determines how successful a church is in the sight of God.

God bless.

So sad.

Majesty7:


Is that what you can deduce? Okay. Peter STARTED the Church of Christ. He laid the foundation after the ascension of Christ. Now, what is the foundation of a Christ-Like Church? A Christ Like gives everything to a new convert and make them feel as the family and when they are deeply rooted, they also gives to the gatherings.

Sequel to your claim that Ananais and Saphira were new converts, that was a mistake on your side. They were not new converts.

The process whereby the foundation has been tampered with by mostly Nigerian preacher is bringing ridicule to the body if Christ.

While they donate their belongings was to make no one in the body of Christ has a lack. Not them collecting. They share.

There is different between collecting and sharing.

How I wish you understand. Thank you

And in regards to your bills, Christ didn't pay any bill. It was either a gift or collective contribution. Don't twist the gospel please

Now you have decided to overlook the examples of Christ receiving gifts I gave to you and shift to Peter and the early church. I don't know what you mean by a Christ- like church gives everything to a new convert. Nothing of such was recorded concerning the early Church so I guess that's your imagination.
I was not speaking of Ananias and Sapphire particularly. Acts recorded the following in chapter 2:

44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.

It is therefore not realistic to claim there were no new converts among those mentioned here because that passage never made that distinction. What's more important to me here is that the act of giving which you highlighted was primarily to those in need not new converts. This indicates that you can be New convert and not benefit if you're not seen as being in need. What you did in your claim that a church should give "everything" to new converts is you've assumed that all new converts are poor and needy. A new convert may join a church due to need for deliverance from power of darkness. Such a man may be wealthy and if he comes abs sees the church lacking musical instruments and buys for the church, should the church reject it because he's new and should be doing the receiving and not giving?
Your standards by which you judge giving and receiving between church and members is based on sentiments and not biblical

bitbillionaire:



You make perfect sense there.

Me i have always sensed that churches setting attendance and financial target to members is ungodly, unspiritual and unscriptural.

I would rather reject a leadership position in a church or even stop going to church altogether than succumb to the pressure of meeting any kind of target set by the church authority.

May God help us with the ability to discern the things which be of men from those which were of God in the church. Sadly some genuinely don't know this is an erroneous practice and has nothing to do with God, however that doesn't change the fact that it is what it is, considering that the things of the flesh (man) profits nothing. It's the Spirit (God) that gives life.

God bless you.

jesusjnr2020:
I'm not going to try to convince you with scriptures because even if I did, you'd still choose to believe what you wanted. Some of the scriptures you often quote were from head knowledge of some apostles which went contrary to the teachings of Christ, but you still accept them regardless because they came from apostles of Christ. They're no different from the true apostles of this day, including my humble self, even if you chose not to accord us the same respect.

Your idea I wouldn't accept any other words but that of Christ is misinformed, because I only reject any teaching that contradict His teachings whether from the Bible or not. That doesn't mean I don't accept those which align with it, except you allow sentiments to guide your judgement.

The scriptures you quoted so far though actually justifies my point as they had nothing to do with setting attendance targets. You first quoted what Jesus said about preaching the Gospel to every creature which I have already addressed. Now you quoted that about bringing fruits which actually has to obedience of the Word (seed) which is sown as a seed into someone's life. It's by obedience of the Word that someone bring fruits of the Word not something else, hence John saying, "bring fruits worthy of repentance" and Jesus also said, "any tree that does not bring forth good fruits shall be cut down".

And that of "making disciples" is actually a misleading translation because what Jesus actually said was, "teach all men to observe to do whatever I commanded you" which is more or less "preach the Gospel to every creature" as another author put it.

So there's nothing about setting attendance targets in all you quoted this far except the only targets Jesus set for His disciples which is to bear fruits of the Word by obedience, and to preach or sow the Word of God so that others could also hear it and bear fruits by obedience of it.

That's the essence of preaching the Gospel to all creature which is the job or target God gave to man, not to set attendance targets of a church.

Jesus Himself sent a lot a people to preach the Gospel and there was not once He told them, this is the amount of souls I expect from you. He even told them if they were rejected anywhere they were sent to, they should leave and preach in the next towns. Call that head knowledge but you can't deny the fact that's the Truth.

So kindly show me where Jesus who ought to be the example of Christians, set such targets for His disciples as is commonly done these days in the churches otherwise you have made no case for such practice.

God bless you.

But Jesus gave a target of preaching the gospel throughout all the earth. Or is that not a target?
If we're doing only what Jesus says, I saw a post you made about predestined children, when did Jesus ever make such statements? So, you're actuality doing what you accused others of.
Also in Matt 7vs 1, Jesus said judge not, while you just judged Christ embassy as worldly. You set a standard you can't keep

jesusjnr2020:
Fine, thanks and you?

I’m doing well bro, can’t complain.

jesusjnr2020:
Worldly Targets Set By Churches: How My Friend Began Preaching Rubbish

Ever since I became born-again and began to walk closely with God, I have always thought the practice of setting attendance or financial targets by churches and their leaders for those under their leadership was erroneous.

I believed it was a worldly practice that had nothing to do with God, hence if the church embraced such it would only end up derailing the church from its original values and standard.

I once had a friend who was a dedicated member of Christ Embassy, one of the denominations guilty of this practice, so when this topic came up during our conversations, I expressed my disapproval of such a policy in the church. But despite being a very devoted and committed member of the Church, he honestly admitted that such targets made him to start preaching what he ought not when he held a leadership position under the church.

He bowed to the pressure of meeting such targets set for him by his leaders and began preaching something else which he thought would enable him meet those targets when preaching the right thing couldn't.

I wasn't much surprised though about that because I knew very well that such was inevitable, considering that such targets were worldly and not of God, so it was only going to lead to compromising and going contrary to the things of God, since the things of this world were opposed to the things of God.

This is the same kind of targets set by some financial institutions to their employees that would make them to start going to ridiculous lengths, including sleeping with some of their clients, to meet them.

This is what has being embraced by a significant part of the church which ought to be in this world but not to the world.

That's why I don't get impressed with the mammoth crowds attending some churches and the amount of money they generate as a result.

It's much easier to achieve similar results by preaching the nonsense people want to hear rather than the Truth and Words of the Spirit.

If it were by preaching rubbish as it is the case in most of such churches, many of the disciples who left Jesus because of the Words of the Spirit He preached, would have never left Him.

They would have remained in the church at the expense of spiritual quality, which is more or less the result of the church we have today.

That's why I don't judge a church by the amount of members or riches they have, but how much they follow the example and teachings of Christ, because that's the only true standard that determines how successful a church is in the sight of God.

God bless.

If you have known God as you claim you will easily point out the errors in all u have said and your analysis and conclusions is worldy. First there's is the book of NUMBERS in the Bible, secondly when the holy ghost came upon the Apostles, the bible said 3.000 was added to the church, Jesus dealt with numbers, God is instep in numbers so when you have a numerical target for your church there is nothing wrong with that. But I can't begin to talk about the finances now for want if time. The other issue is when 3000 was added to the church in acts, what happened,? It was the preaching of the word with power. When you prach the word of God with Power people will come and power has a price. It is praying and fasting . People are laY to do this so they compromisrw

Kukutenla:

Now you have decided to overlook the examples of Christ receiving gifts I gave to you and shift to Peter and the early church. I don't know what you mean by a Christ- like church gives everything to a new convert. Nothing of such was recorded concerning the early Church so I guess that's your imagination.
I was not speaking of Ananias and Sapphire particularly. Acts recorded the following in chapter 2: It is therefore not realistic to claim there were no new converts among those mentioned here because that passage never made that distinction. What's more important to me here is that the act of giving which you highlighted was primarily to those in need not new converts. This indicates that you can be New convert and not benefit if you're not seen as being in need. What you did in your claim that a church should give "everything" to new converts is you've assumed that all new converts are poor and needy. A new convert may join a church due to need for deliverance from power of darkness. Such a man may be wealthy and if he comes abs sees the church lacking musical instruments and buys for the church, should the church reject it because he's new and should be doing the receiving and not giving?
Your standards by which you judge giving and receiving between church and members is based on sentiments and not biblical

My brother, I love you and I understand you perfectly but gift is totally different from request. Jesus received gift. He never coerced anyone to give him. It ia different from "Offering time, blessing time".

Now in regards to the verse you quoted ."44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need."

Verse 45 is the foundation of Christianity. Is this how it is still being practiced?

The bottom line is winning more souls to Christ should never increase the Church's profit. It is a never a business center.

Let me tell you one little secret. No pastors who rides a car but has a member suffering will sit at the right hand of Jesus. However, it is possible they sits at the right hand of God as a practicing Judsism.

Remember, They sold whatever they had to meet each ones need. The basic of given in Christainity is to erase lack within the Church not to enrich anyone of them.

Thank you