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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. (4648 Views)
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Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Maynmann: 2:50pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Your argument is very weak. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 3:14pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Wilgrea7: My intent here is not to prove that God A or B is the true God. That's a secondary issue. The primary issue is that a God exists. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Maynmann: 3:15pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz:Why not Gods exist? |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by budaatum: 3:18pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz:This is so not true. Just as you would not say please and thank you if your parents never taught you to, so too would you not learn not to lie and cheat and steal if no one taught you not to. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by budaatum: 3:19pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Steep: Sorry, but I do not think you have sufficient intellectual capacity for this conversation so I'm going to let you be. 1 Like |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Wilgrea7(m): 3:29pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz: This thread is about morality, not the existence of god. The reason i asked you to prove god A or B, is because it would help us define the arbiter of the alleged objective moral laws you believe exist. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Aemmyjah(m): 3:31pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Wilgrea7: The Cosmological Argument: This argument posits that everything in the universe has a cause, and since the universe itself must have a cause, there must be a First Cause or an Uncaused Cause, which is identified as the Creator or God. The Kalam Cosmological Argument, a variation of this argument, specifically states that the universe had a beginning, and since everything that begins to exist has a cause, the universe must have a cause, which is the Creator. The Teleological Argument (Argument from Design): This argument suggests that the complexity, order, and purpose observed in the natural world imply the existence of an intelligent Designer. The fine-tuning of the universe's physical constants, the intricacy of biological systems, and the emergence of consciousness are often cited as evidence for a Creator. The Moral Argument: This argument posits that the existence of objective moral values and duties implies the existence of a moral lawgiver, which is identified as the Creator or God. Without a transcendent source, it is argued that moral values would be subjective and arbitrary. The Argument from Contingency: This argument states that everything in the universe is contingent, meaning it depends on something else for its existence. Since there cannot be an infinite chain of contingent causes, there must be a necessary being that is the ultimate cause of everything else. This necessary being is identified as the Creator or God. Some people still look for evidence ams instead of humbling themselves, they become proud and say they are intelligent The above are not based on religion right? From AI |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Aemmyjah(m): 3:36pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz: Your point is very logical but i did not agree at all with the highlighted What has science got to do with moral laws or morality It is built in It is like a inner guide Just as it is wrong to say science discovered love and hate, hunger and thirst. Moral laws guide a person or community |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Wilgrea7(m): 3:40pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Steep: 1. If your definition of society is "a collection of atoms arranged into structure by mindless cosmic process", then i don't know what to say to you anymore. 2. I never said society determines what is right and wrong. I've repeatedly said that human well being is the thing that is intrinsically linked to morality.. not society. It does not make any sense, meaning there is no free will, nothing is wrong or right at the end of the day just what propagate the human society, murder, rape, stealing lying can be all right when they profit society which itself is nothing but a complex structure of mindless atoms. I've given up on explaining this to you. You choose to intentionally ignore what I'm saying to rehash the same narrative. I don't know how else to proceed with you |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Wilgrea7(m): 3:42pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Aemmyjah: Congratulations to the AI. I don't know if you felt mentioning that would add credibility to your argument, but okay. I'm not arguing for or against the existence of God. All I'm asking is for the person who believes in god A to prove that their specific god, and no one else, created the universe, and is hence the source of the moral laws, if any, that govern it. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Wilgrea7(m): 3:48pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse: Oh no.. it hurts.. ah insincerity.. now i am dead. No king can be happy when his subjects aren't living peacefully among themselves. Not what i asked. The one and only true God should ensure that peace reigns among His own worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} even though they're speaking different languages they will have understanding among themselves! Zephaniah 3:9 Not a prerequisite for being a king But false Kings will not bother when those who supposed to be their subjects are killing one another! Revelation 6:3-4 Again.. not a prerequisite WHY? Because they have no prospect for subjects that aren't their own. Refer to points above I have challenged you several times to request worshipers of those Gods you're saying to come and prove how real is their God but you always dodge facts! I've been requesting worshippers of all gods should prove theirs. You included. I'm still yet to see any proof |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 4:11pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Aemmyjah: Please read my post again. I spoke about science in relation to the scientific laws and rules guiding our physical universe in my second paragraph. The first paragraph referred only to moral laws but the second paragraph does not. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Aemmyjah(m): 4:16pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz: Oh My bad U did not mention scientific laws Don't mind this atheist They don't want tk believe in a Creator ao they can pursue their selfish desires and not feel accountable to God Just as a child delights to do all sorts of nonsense when the parents are far away Where does it leave them? No guide, nk purpose, no future, no hope. Animal living |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 4:17pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Wilgrea7: The thread is about morality and targeted to atheists who say there's no God. I can't prove God A or B until we first both agree that at least a God exists. This is the right order. My point is that there are moral laws as well as laws guiding the universe in all its operations. Man discovered those laws, he didn't set them. Someone higher than man did. Laws don't enact or promulgate themselves. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:26pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Wilgrea7: Please can anyone help this atheist to know that there's no sense in having a king who is incapable of making peace reign in his domain? |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 4:27pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Aemmyjah: Oh, I mentioned that our universe operates according to certain rules and laws. I suppose everyone would understand that my reference was to scientific laws. And you're very correct. When you present Atheists with strong arguments against their viewpoints, they start to dribble around the point, setting baits to subtly divert the discussion into their individual areass of strength. Their atheistically induced notions of God is weak because it is based on science which stands on ever shifting grounds. Just one new discovery could make science review a lot of its positions today. Anyone who does not have total, infinite and absolute knowledge cannot make a bold statement that there's no God. The Atheist himself knows that he's deceiving himself. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 4:31pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Wilgrea7: The thread is not just about morality but the existent of moral laws which were not created by man. I posit that Someone higher than man made those laws. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Wilgrea7(m): 4:33pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz: I've explained in the past that the existence of a god does not solve the moral problem. I created an entire thread on it. But okay, for the sake of this discussion, i will agree that a god exists.. so please go ahead to the secondary stage. Prove god A or B |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 4:34pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
budaatum: Please and thank you are not the moral laws where discussing here. You and I know that universally accepted moral laws exist. The universe itself operates on some scientific laws which were not set by man. Someone higher than man set them. Those universally accepted moral laws and the scientific laws that govern our universe are pointers to the existent of a God. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 4:40pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Wilgrea7: We're not talking about the moral problem. The existence of a government, presidents, judges as well as criminal laws don't solve the crime problems. But the existent of the laws themselves prove that someone higher than the criminal exists. The secondary stage is not what we would discuss just because you're agreeing for the sake of this discussion. It's better discussed with someone who strongly accepts the existent of a God but is unsure of which God is the true God. I don't see you at this stage yet. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 4:48pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Maynmann: Maynman, I have had encounters with you in which I have every cause to conclude that you do not engage in mature, intelligent and clean discussions. Your mantra is to cause unnecessary provocation using vulgarity and abusive languages. I do not have the time for such. 1 Like |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Maynmann: 4:52pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz:I don’t start the insults, i don’t like it when people can’t take what they dish out. Imagine calling me son of one character in your storybook but if i also do the same na problem. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 4:55pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Maynmann: I have always been cautious in all my discourse on this forum. I respect myself and therefore respect everyone I have dealings with. But on several occasions, you've abused me for no just reasons. And I've decided to let you be. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Maynmann: 5:07pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz:If you didn’t abuse me first, I wouldn’t have abused you. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 5:21pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Maynmann: You can go through all my mentions with you. Even when you abuse me, I don't immediately react until it gets to a point where I can't take it anymore. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Maynmann: 5:27pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz:You can also go through all my mentions with you, i have no reason to abuse you unless you start it. I deal with knowledge not beliefs. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 5:30pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Maynmann: Anyway, I've made my grieveances known to you. For the sake of courtesy, let me respond. Whether a God or Gods. The most important thing here is that Someone or Some entities higher than man set the moral laws that are universally accepted by man to judge between right and wrong. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 5:35pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Maynmann: You'll be the first to call your opponent dullard, illiterate, etc. Even when he has never insulted you. Everyone on this forum knows that. The last time, you were even insulting my elders simply because I asked you to ask elders around about a widely publicised incident in Russia that happened in 1992 which obviously you knew nothing about. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Maynmann: 5:35pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz:What are the moral laws that are universally accepted. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Maynmann: 5:37pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz:I say it again, if you didn’t start the insult i wouldn’t insult you, take what you dish out. If it was widely publicized incident in Russia, it should be online. Why are ALL your stories no where to be found online. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by FxMasterz: 5:38pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
Maynmann: You know them. Even kids of 3yrs know that some things aren't right to be done. The more the reason why they'll love to do them in your absence. That universally accepted moral laws exist isn't something to argue about. |
Re: You cannot be an atheists and have objective morality. by Maynmann: 5:39pm On Jun 09, 2023 |
FxMasterz:Those 3 year old kids were taught that, if they lived in other times or other cultures they will be taught another thing. When you reward and punish someone for something what do you think will happen? So tell me the universally accepted laws. |
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