Stats: 3,190,557 members, 7,941,115 topics. Date: Thursday, 05 September 2024 at 05:39 PM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian (11488 Views)
"Homosexuality Wasn't Alien To Yoruba; Sango Was A Cross Dresser" - Historian / The Origin Of Urhobo People / The Origin Of Tribal Marks Practice In Nigeria,styles And Reasons. (photos) (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Fejoku: 10:47pm On Jul 12, 2023 |
clefstone:Aboh man of the 20/21st century not having the Igbo consciousness is simply because of how the British chose to administer Igboland. The whole of Ukwuani territory was placed under Warri Division. This is what pushed your people towards Warri more than how the Enuani people will gravitate towards the same place. You were never grouped together with the larger part of Igboland which if it was to be so would have seen you flow with it easily. As you would have observed, your brothers in Ogbaru and Oguta are not complaining. At present, Asaba is pulling you into the Igbo consciousness even if it is at a slow pace. Not that it matters to me though. Everyone is free to choose whatever he wants for himself. |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Fejoku: 11:47pm On Jul 12, 2023 |
Aboh well identified as an Igbo town 200 years ago.
|
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by RedboneSmith(m): 12:21am On Jul 13, 2023 |
Fejoku: There's a lot of truth here though. Who is Igbo today and who is not has a lot to do with administrative lines that were drawn in the 20th century. It should never be forgotten that the idea of an Igbo ethnicity is itself fairly recent. As late as the 1940s, Igbo ethnogenesis was still an ongoing project. Acceptance to participate in that project had a lot to do with 20th century administrative and geopolitical realities. There is this strong tendency for people in Anioma to underline multiethnic heritage as the reason why they can't be Igbo. But multiethnic heritage equally applies to many people in the Southeast, where many villages can be found claiming Igala, Benin, Ibibio, Ijaw, Idoma etc origins. There's even some village-units with Nupe backgrounds in the Enugu-Ezike axis. The linguistic tie is practically the only unifier. If Ngwa had been carved into Rivers State, best believe they will not be Igbo today. If Abiriba had been carved into Cross River State, they will likely not be Igbo today. But make we leave this matter. There are people who fall within the Igbo(id) linguistic continuum who are not going to come under the Igbo pan-ethnic umbrella anytime soon. It is what it is. Everyone should be able to live with that. 3 Likes |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Fejoku: 1:05am On Jul 13, 2023 |
RedboneSmith:The main concern is why the highest propensity to deny being Igbo simply because a couple of migrants settled in your midst without changing anything significant in your way of life or culture? Why are the Ukwuani insisting in looking away despite all the similarity? The same thing for the Ika, Ogba and Ikwerre? Are they the only people that had migrants settling within them? Don't Bini people have some other migrants settling within them? Isn't it the same thing for Esan, Igala, Idoma, Annang, Ibibio, Ijaw, Isoko and Urhobo having some Igbos settling among them? Why is it not an issue for them? I'm temted to say something about these Igbo groups afflicted with the centrifugal pull but I'll just hold myself. No Igbo person will consider oza-nagogo people as fellow Igbos because clearly they don't speak any dialect of Igbo. The kinship isn't there despite them being in Ika North East but an Igbanke person will be felt as a brother when he speaks even though he's from Edo state. Na who do our people this thing? |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by RedboneSmith(m): 1:10am On Jul 13, 2023 |
Fejoku: There's absolutely no reason to get worked up and verbally abusive over it. It is good as you hold yourself. I tell Southeasterners to just look inwards and focus on themselves. |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by clefstone(m): 1:16pm On Jul 13, 2023 |
Fejoku:and Obi Ossai was identified as the king of the Igbos. Hope we all agree that the Obi of Aboh once ruled over all of Igbo land 1 Like |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by wesley80(m): 4:46pm On Jul 13, 2023 |
clefstone: ![]() |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Fejoku: 11:27am On Jul 14, 2023 |
clefstone:Let's assume we agree that he ruled all over Igboland; will that stop you running away from your shadow? Even Eze Obi Ossai did confirm to them the limits of his territory. As the explorers went up stream (above Aboh), they got a clearer picture. Good luck to your search for what isn't missing. |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Fejoku: 11:36am On Jul 14, 2023 |
RedboneSmith:I understand you but don't agree to your last clause. If we focus on ourselves, it is still these same people that will accuse us of not regarding them as one with us. You should know already that I don't really care how any individual chooses to identify himself. The problem is when an individual decides to ignore all the clear evidences before him in order to insist on a jaundiced idea that it becomes annoying. I will continue to point historical facts to them bini wannabes. |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by clefstone(m): 7:05pm On Jul 14, 2023 |
Fejoku:oh! So you suddenly realize that the explorers could be wrong because you saw something inconvenient to you. Interesting. To say the people of Aboh tended towards Warri because they were made a part of the Warri Province would lead me to ask why then the people of Onitsha didn't consider themselves Igbo even into the 1960s. Where they also included in the Warri province or are they geographically separated from the South East? BTW, the Aboh people have never tended towards Warri so don't assume things you do not know It's ironic that you are the one getting emotional here when you are trying so arrogantly to tell an entire community who they are, a community you most likely have never been. Don't you think I should be the angry one here because you insult me and my people both those now and those that are gone I want you, redbonesmith, bigfrancis21 and others to read the below. I have avoided sharing this on Nairaland because of the sensitive issues it contains. Who knows, maybe it's already here https://amightytree.org/the-slave-trade-and-long-lasting-ethnic-stereotypes/ 1 Like 1 Share
|
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by RedboneSmith(m): 7:43pm On Jul 14, 2023 |
clefstone: Not exactly sure why I was mentioned here. |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Fejoku: 8:11pm On Jul 14, 2023 |
clefstone:LMAO. There's nothing sensitive there if only you could read further down the page you posted to see that both Ika and Aboh were still referred to as "Igbo". Clefstone, you've been on nairaland for very long and should have gone beyond this stage of argument that you are bringing. We don pass this level na. Are you saying that Nnamdi Azikiwe who was already one of the major leaders of the Igbo nation as early as the 1940s didn't see himself as an Igbo man? Are you also saying that Dennis Osadebay of Asaba who was one of the founder of the Igbo Union in 1920s didn't see himself as an Igbo man? Nnamdi Azikiwe even wrote about the ancestry of his people migrating from Benin but never alluded to them being Bini. There's a big difference between you and the Onitsha people who are referring to others as Igbos and you denying Igbo entirely. For the onitshas, their kins are those in Enuani and they prefer to be identified with them. Language was not a problem as they never claimed to have been influenced by "Igbos" to speak what they were and are currently speaking. Do you understand? Many Igbo groups also referred to other Igbo speaking groups as 'Igbos' without seeing themselves as being "Igbo". The Ngwa people refer to other Igbo speaking people as "ohuhu" while the "uratta" group of Owerri and her Southern brothers see other non-uratta group as "Isuama people" pronounced "Isoma". The list goes on and on for how various Igbo groups see other Igbo groups different from them. Lastly, is it most Ukwuani communities that were formed by the Bini migrants or just a few? If it is the majority, how come they lost their language entirely to a smaller and probably a weaker group when Ukwuani land shares boundary with Biniland? 1 Like |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Fejoku: 8:13pm On Jul 14, 2023 |
RedboneSmith:LMAO, he thought the excerpt he posted will be an eye opener. He doesn't know that it means nothing to those who know Igbo history. |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by wesley80(m): 8:56pm On Jul 14, 2023 |
LOL. You'd think people that open their mouths to talk BS about other people would do the most basic thing common sense requires; read! Even if you want to lie, why lie with someone as eminent as Azikiwe? 1 Like
|
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by clefstone(m): 9:54pm On Jul 14, 2023 |
RedboneSmith: There's a lot of truth here though. Who is Igbo today and who is not has a lot to do with administrative lines that were drawn in the 20th century. This is why I mentioned you 1 Like |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by RedboneSmith(m): 11:11pm On Jul 14, 2023 |
clefstone: The screenshot comes from the work of Dr Henderson, which I have actually used to argue here before. I was just a little surprised to be invited to read something that was already well known to me and which I have used in debates before. Lol. Anyway, I actually stand by what I said about administrative lines. And the screenshot you mentioned me in is not even in contrast with what I said. If anything, it supports it. Onitsha would have still been non-Igbo today if it was in the Midwest, then Bendel, then Delta. All of Onitsha's Ezechime brothers are in Delta State, after all. Administrative lines are the reasons why it eventually got involved in the pan-Igbo project, while Umuezechime in Delta have largely not gotten involved in the pan-Igbo project. If by some weird stroke Aboh had found itself in the Eastern Region and later maybe in Anambra or Imo, it too would have eventually found itself participating in the pan-Igbo project. I completely stand by what I said there. Oguta in Imo State is another example I can cite here. Linguistically speaking, Oguta is Ukwuani. Listen to the dialect - clearly Ukwuani. If it was in Delta, the way they self-identify today would have been very different. But just like Onitsha, they passed through a phase where they stood against the growing Igbo ethnogenesis, until they eventually also became full participants in it. And just in case this is not widely known yet, Onitsha and Oguta people are NOT the only people in the East who used "ndị Igbo" in the past to describe other people but would not use the same term to describe themselves. People who haven't studied Igbo history do not know how widespread this practice was in the Southeast, even down to the 1940s. “Ndị Igbo" was widely used to mean "other people except for us". A Dutch historian Dmitri van Beerselaar recently even did a doctoral thesis on the Igbo where this topic was discussed in some detail. One of the architects of Igbo pan-ethnicity, B O N Eluwa, wrote how he and other ethnonationalists were travelling around the Eastern Region even into the 1940s sensitising people about a pan-Igbo ethnic consciousness. [Just as an addendum, there is something I find interesting about Onitsha's "non-Igboness" in the past. There were a group of people who lived along the river bank of Onitsha who claimed Igala ancestry and were there before the main Onitsha people arrived from Aniocha or Benin (depending on which traditions you believe) . These people of putative Igala ancestry were in charge of certain rituals in Onitsha. Now during some of these rituals, the main Onitsha people were not allowed to be present. So before the rituals, Onitsha people would be asked to leave. The Igala-descent ritual performers would say “Igbo mabo, Igbo mabo“, which means “Igbos run away“. The same Onitsha people who termed their hinterland neighbours as "ndị Igbo" were themselves called "Igbo" by Igala-descent people living by the waterside. And that was how the word Igbo was being tossed around. Ogidi will call all their neighbours except themselves "ndị Igbo". Nkwele will call all their neighbours including Ogidi "ndị Igbo". Nsugbe will call everybody including Ogidi and Nkwele "ndị Igbo".] 1 Like |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by clefstone(m): 11:36pm On Jul 14, 2023 |
Fejoku:I didn't start any argument here. It was the OP that started the topic: Igbo origin of Aboh. That said, notice how the author who stayed in Onitsha in the 60s carefully used the term Western and Eastern Igbo speakers as opposed to Western and Eastern Igbos. He did that for a reason. As for the term Ika Igbo and Aboh Igbo, that is what the people around the Ika and Aboh called them(today it is Delta Igbo) and the reason is simply that they speak Igbo dialect. However, at no point in history have these people self identified as Igbos. If you can show any evidence to the contrary, I will close my NL account immediately As for Azikiwe and Osadebey, their motivation was politics and number. I can bet you that no Onitsha man of Azikiwe's time saw himself as Igbo. Everything the writer of the piece I shared was written after 1960, so the Anti-Igbo sentiment of the Onitshas still existed then From the screenshot Wesley80 shared from an excerpt of Azikiwe's autobiography, the Onitsha people believe they are from the Bini royal lineage, not any fabricated back migration narrative Infact, if you read the narrative I shared, it becomes even more obvious that aside language, the Western Igbo speakers always had very little cultural similarities with the hinterland Igbo speakers as remains the case today 1 Like
|
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by clefstone(m): 12:12am On Jul 15, 2023 |
RedboneSmith:We can actually look at it from a different angle. Now, the Onitsha people lived in their present location for more than 200yrs maintaining their non-igbo identity and avoiding contact with the hinterlanders but maintaining contact with those West of the Niger and along the River. Why didn't their geography force them into communal relationship with those to the east of them in 200yrs? What happened after those 200yrs that forced the sudden change of their orientation. It is the politics of the new country combined with their geography and it's very okay. Now, if the people of Aboh decide not to key in to the Igbo identity, it's also geopolitical and it's okay, since the concept of an Igbo identity aside language is rather vague. What makes no sense is someone saying some people are denying something that was never there |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Fejoku: 7:50am On Jul 15, 2023 |
clefstone:When a man speaks from a position of ignorance, it is always visible. Onitcha doesn't have 'very little cultural similarity' with her neighbours. She had a lot in common cultural wise because she was Igbo just like your very own Aboh. Do you know that many early Igbo priests used by the missionaries to evangelize in Igboland were from Onitsha? Do you think they never referred to themselves as fellow Igbos before those they evangelized to? Do you know that Asaba though in Anioma isn't of the Anioma stock but from the so called 'Igbo' stock? Asaba's founder came from Nteje- a pure Igbo stock from the eastward of Onitsha. Will that change your perception of them? Ogwashi-Ukwu's founder came from Nri- another pure Igbo stock from the East. The same story goes for many other communities in the present Anioma territory including Ndokwa area. The point is this; many Anioma groups who don't want to be regarded as Igbos do so because they favour their clan identity (which many other Igbo groups are also guilty of) more than the nationalistic one (Igbo nation). Some think they're more modern/refined than the other Igbo group and insist on that notification to be appreciated whereas some like you insist on a totally different reason for the same rejection of being identified as one. Your likes always claim that your ancestry are from Bini (Bini people speaking purely Bini) but were gradually assimiliated into losing their culture, language, festivities and tradition. It is such groups that will always be laughed at because nothing they say ever makes sense. If your progenitors who left Bini had Igbo names and gave their children Igbo names including the communities they founded, then it should be obvious that they were originally Igbo speakers which makes them Igbos. Ezechima- the foremost leader of most clans of Anioma including Onitcha was an Igbo man. His name says it all. Onitcha people just like their kins in Anioma never claimed they learnt Igbo by proximity to 'Igbo' communities. If you must know, Bini people used to journey by leg to Asaba area by leg to trade on the River Niger. Don't you think that at least Bini language would have survived in Anioma on account of having real Bini people coming into their midst always? Finally, is it not alarming that those Igbo groups alone claiming to have come from Bini are almost thrice the size of Bini itself? Anioma has nine lgas and Rivers Igbos have six lgas making them fifteen lgas as against 6/7 bini ones. I didn't include other groups that claimed emigrating from Bini and are still speaking edoid languages. My advice to you is to study further the SE so you can understand Ndigbo better before coming to a conclusion. My argument about Ukwuani being Igbo isn't based on anything outside the facts from history and on ground. Everything about them points to them Igbo of the Igbo stock. I can't go to Oza-nagogo and call them Igbo. Neither can I do so at the Isokos. I'll appear to be dumb. If your people are very serious to deny their Igbo heritage and grab onto their Bini claims, they should start dropping off Igbo dialect they speak and other Igbo stuffs and call Bini people to teach them their language, culture, traditions and norms of their bini founders. |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Ologbo147: 8:25am On Jul 15, 2023 |
Fejoku:stop throwing shades at the Binis, there was no time the Anioma area was larger than the Bini area in landmass and in population even if they have nine local government as against the Binis seven. Local government is not a yardstick for population strength, we ve proven that time and time again. we would have had more local governments today if not for scuffle between our elites that hindered that action. The Binis are not the ones claiming them, most times these people are the ones extending the olive branch, please stop throwing shade |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by clefstone(m): 7:43pm On Jul 15, 2023 |
Fejoku:Very angry man. You think we don't know the Igbo people to the West of the Niger? Even inside Aboh we have people of Igbo stock who have your values. You probably do not have the ability to understand these things because you are from a closed group. On the names of the Children of the founder. Esumei Ukwu, the founder of Aboh had two children: Ugbo and Ogwezi. Ogwezi's children included Ossai, Ojugbeli and Ozegbe. These names are 90% Edoid names e.g Ozegbe, Ossai, Ugbo. The same is observed in the Surnames/family names of the Onitsha people The Aboh language is no doubt Igboid, if you like a dialect of Igbo. The Igbo language is said to have originated just south of the confluence area and of course along the Lower Niger where Aboh is located. The language spread to the eastern hinterland as a result of trade along the Lower Niger. The people of today's South East therefore lost their language to this dominant language of trade but we would never know what they spoke before maybe something similar to Ibibio. In those times, trade languages dominated, for example, you would notice that trade items coming from the North bear Hausa names even in the Igbo language as Hausa was another dominant trade language. For example rice in Hausa is Shinkafa, while in Igbo it's Oshikapa, Onion in Hausa is Albasa and in Igbo it's Yabash as the Igbo speaking people along the Niger pronounce the S sound as -Sh. It is very easy to understand why a people that migrated to these parts would lose their original language after centuries to this very strong language of trade which they participated in so actively. The vestiges of the original language of the Aboh people still exist though |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Probz(m): 8:16pm On Jul 15, 2023 |
RedboneSmith: And I’m not exactly sure why I wasn’t. |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Igboid: 8:17pm On Jul 15, 2023 |
clefstone: You are writing nonsense as usual. Igbo language didn't originate from Aboh, don't be si.lly. Igbos migrated from a Northern direction and settled West and East of the Niger at same time. This happened long long time ago. Why it would appear like towns in Western Igbo have recent founder stories is because of the turbulence Bini empire exacted on the area forced many pockets of aboriginal Igbo speaking communities in those places to rearrange themselves through unification to for towns so as to annul Bini threat. It's the rearrangement and formation of new towns from hitherto ancient Igbo communities in Western Igbo, that gives the impression of new foundation stories, whereas in actual sense of it, the area Igbo speaking ancestors of Igbo towns in West of Niger River are as ancient as those in SE. Igbos settled in SE and Anioma same time and at many times crossed the River to and fro to establish new communities on both sides by reuniting with those Igbos already on ground there. For example the Nri party( Adaigbo and his brother that founded Akwukwu-Igbo, Ute-Okpu, etc) didn't meet those places empty. They meant Igbo speaking groups on ground who they reunited to found the towns. When Ozor left Ubulu uku in Anioma to found Ozubulu in Anambra, he didn't meet the land empty, he met Igbos there already and he arranged and United the pockets of hitherto villages to form Ozubulu. Nnebisi didn't meet Asaba empty. He met Ezeanyanwu and other Igbo speaking communities in Asaba that he United to establish modern Asaba. So all these senseless Bini origin stories is nonsense. Igbos here heavily populated on both sides of the Niger, any unfortunate Bini migrant into Western or Eastern Igbo will be outnumbered by 99:1 and forced to assimilate by the Igbo speaking aboriginals on ground. This is tee truth. This is why Igbanke, Owariuzo, etc is still Igbo speaking despite being in Edo state. The sheer population of aboriginal Igbo speaking people there was too much and quickly absorbed insignificant Bini migrants without any fuss while retaining the Igbo fundamentals. 1 Like |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Ologbo147: 8:45pm On Jul 15, 2023 |
Igboid:Igbanke is bordered on all fronts by Ika communities despite being in Edo state, that is prolly why it was not eaten up. To the north it is bordered by Ekpon an Esan-Ika speaking community, to the east, it shares boundary with mbiri, an Ika speaking community in delta state. To the south, it has Agbor as neighbor, if it was encircled on 3 fronts by Bini communities, by no means it would have been eaten up, even at that, Bini presence is heavily felt in Igbanke, many of them partly bear Bini names and many of them understand Bini too. Don’t go insulting an Igbanke man in Bini thinking he will not hear you, you might be shocked Also, In that local government, Igbanke is not among the first two biggest communities in Orhiowmon. It is common knowledge that Bini communities on the eastern flank is more densely populated than those on the western flank. Urhonigbe and Oza Aibiokunla are both bigger than Igbanke. There is nothing extraordinary about the population of Igbanke as the first two largest communities in Orhiowmon are Bini speaking 1 Like |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by wesley08(m): 11:54pm On Jul 15, 2023 |
Igboid:When you're done with these, be kind enough to offer an explanation on why a purely Isoko community like Ozoro and a purely Urhobo community like Orogun share a similar migration story from Benin with its Anioma neighbors. Since name and language are all that determines ancestry in your big and empty head, tell us why these "Igbo people" that came from Benin like Aboh people, with the latter living in Aboh for at least a generation, now speak Isoko and Urhobo languages, bear Isoko and Urhobo names and have Isoko and Urhobo culture. I can not understand for the world of me why a people cannot mind their frigging business and are so bent on rewriting other people's history. Like what the actual fork? I mentioned communities like Aboh-Ozara and Oguta in the heart of Igboland that assert Benin and Aboh ancestry that you've not been able to convince to drop their Benin and Delta identity yet you think you can come to Delta State to and rewrite a 600 year old story with your contrived and illogical bull-sheet? Where are you from and what is your own history? Have you decided if you fell from the sky or you matched down from Israel? Have you finished telling your people where they're from that you now want to tell Aboh people who they are? |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by wesley08(m): 7:45am On Jul 16, 2023 |
Ologbo147:This is disrespectful to Anioma people. Binis do not need to claim Anioma people and Anioma people are NOT sending any Olive branch to Bini for acceptance. The issue of the origin of Aboh and most Anioma people has been long settled on both sides and Aboh people know their place in Benin. Aboh people do not even need to assert their historical attachment with Benin because Benin historical accounts as asserted by no one less than the Oba, including Oba Eweka II and Oba Akenzua as well as erudite Benin historian Jacob Egharevba, have over time, affirmed Aboh's origin. The only reason this topic is still being debated is because a bunch of clowns think they have a say on the subject. See attachments. 1 Like
|
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Igboid: 8:57am On Jul 16, 2023 |
wesley08: You are not the brightest bulb in the Christmas tree, are you? Isoko, Urhobo and co all speak an Edoid language, so their migration from Bini story is legit! Because Bini speaks an Edoid language too. Language is the greatest pointer of origin. Also Epie-Attisa in Bayelsa, Engenni in far away Rivers State have histories of Bini origin and you see this in the fact that the people despite being surrounded by Ijoid speakers,speak an Edoid language as mother tongue! In Delta State, Odiani communities in Aniocha have history of migrants from Owo Division of Ondo and we see that in the fact that some of them speak a Yoruboid language as mother tongue. Ebu in same Aniocha area has history of migrants from Igala and the people speak Igala dialect as mother tongue. Oza nogogo people in Agbor has history of migrants from Edo, and they speak an Edoid language as mother tongue. These things are rational and not hard to figure except when one want to indulge in self delusion. A people language will always reflect where the overwhelming population of the people originated from. It's that simple. Anything else is mere fantasy and wishful thinking. Bini origin claimants in Oguta are no different from Jewish origin claimants in Aguleri and environment. They are all clownish wishful dreamers. No one, not even themselves, take themselves serious. We all know they are all suffering from inferiority complex and we are ever ready to welcome all of them back to earth when they are done. Any claim by Igbo speaking group that traces their origin to smaller non Igbo speaking groups outside Igboland is pure fallacy and wishful thinking stories cobbled by lying ancestors suffering from inferiority complex. No Anthropologist will take such serious. Yes! Aboh couldn't have originated from Bini and not be speaking an Edoid dialect as mother tongue. It's impossible! If you say a few founding fathers of Aboh, maybe the rulling class are of Bini origin, maybe I can reluctantly agree, but there is no denying the fact that overwhelming (at least 90%) of people in Aboh today are originated from Igbo speaking ancestors which is why the language of Aboh stayed Igbo. This is common sense. 1 Like |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Igboid: 9:13am On Jul 16, 2023 |
Ologbo147: I don't think so. Igbos generally have a live and let live mindset. They will never force their culture on you, infact, they will like to remain distinct from you so that they can always show they are not same as you. Igbo culture can be segregating rather than assimilating, everything is built on Umunna and you can only be a member by biology. This is why many non Igbos resent Igbos. When you are around Ndiigbo, you will always be constantly reminded that you are not an Igbo. It's not even subtle, it's usually blatant. Once a non Igbo experience the non inclusive nature of Igbo tradition towards non members, they tag it Igbo Tribalism and then develop hate for the Igbo. When in truth, the Igbo just want to be Igbo and don't want a foreign body in their affairs, neither will they want to be involved in yours. That's how Igbo Society is. If Igbanke were of purely Edoid stock, they will remain Edoid speaking till today, irrespective of boundaries they have with Ika speaking towns. In Anioma we have Odiani ( Yoruba speakers) are surrounded by Enuani Igbo speaking towns yet they retained their Yoruba dialect. We have Ebu too, they speak Igala as mother tongue and Enuani as second language. In Ebonyi we have the Orring communities totally surrounded by Igbo speaking Ebonyi groups. The Orring still speak Orring as mother tongue and Igbo as second language. Igbanke is Igbo speaking because they are founded by Igbo speaking people. A few Bini migrants might have settled among them, but they were insignificant in number and were assimilated by the majority of the Igbos on ground. Igbanke bear Bini surnames at times because of suffocating pressure applied on the people by Binis in their attempts to assimilate them. For years Igbanke people struggled to get LG identification certificate from their LG headquarters because the Edos in charge there insist their name is Igboid and must be changed to a befitting Edoid one before handing out the certificates. Many Igbanke also changed their Igboid names to Edoid ones during the civil war and post civil war to avoid being persecuted as Ibos! With the depotic strangling effect of Bini on Igbanke neck, it's a miracle they have retained their Igbo dialect this far. It goes to show you how difficult it is to eradicate a people language or to make them drop it for yours even when under duress, let alone when no such empire influence or pressure exists. This makes nonsense of the stories of Igbo speaking groups who claim to have been influenced by Igbos to drop their original non Igbo languages for Igbo one. That is impossible when you realize that not even Bini with an empire could achieve such language change on a people, not even Fulani rulers in Ilorin could change the Yoruba language of native Yorubas of Ilorin, let alone Igbos who had no such Empire or power. It's a fantasy stories that expose deep sitted inferiority complex of Igbo speaking groups that parrot such irrational stories. 2 Likes |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by wesley08(m): 9:23am On Jul 16, 2023 |
Igboid:I will ignore all the nonsense you wrote above and focus on the question I asked. You think yourself bright but you're not so bright to discern why I specifically mentioned those 2 communities. If you were half as smart as you think yourself, you'd have researched on those and realized they're not just Urhobo and Isoko communities that share the general Isoko or Benin Bini migration story but according to your warped historical account, also have the Igbo native doctor you call "Eze Chima" as their progenitor. Yes indeed because Aboh people consider both Ozoro and Orogun communities to be our distant kins and the founder of Ozoro was a certain "Oputa". So pray tell, why are these people speaking Urhobo and Isoko? Why are you not claiming them also? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Igboid: 9:33am On Jul 16, 2023 |
wesley08: You lack common sense. I know the story of Ozoro and Orogun well. You can as well throw in Igbide into it. Infact the stories of there Urhobo/Isoko speaking towns buttress my points the more. Those towns were founded by Igbo speaking people. But yet are Edoid speakers today. Have you not asked yourself why? The why is simple. Founding does not mean that the land was empty when the founder arrived. Founding means that the native inhabitants were not organized and didn't see themselves as one, so the founder United them, and forged them into a unit. Ofcourse the language of the new entity will reflect the language of the overwhelming population of natives the founder met on ground. So even though the founders of Igbide, a now Isoko speaking town migrated from Awka and Mgbidi in SE, the town already had Isoko communities on ground who accepted the leadership of the founder group and in so doing assimilated the founder group into their own language and culture. Ofcourse the founder group will always leave their own imprints on the people too and we see this in Igbide, Ozoro and Orogun (which remained bilingual). Again, this is common sense, but I noticed it's far from many people. Ndiigbo are not claiming Igbide, Ozoro and Orogun because it's obvious to us that overwhelming members of those communities despite myths of Igbo founders origin were not of primary Igbo/Igboid stock which is reflected in their Edoid language today as mother tongue. In simple terms, Ndiigbo rationally believe that the native language a people speak tells a Better story about who the majority of them are than their myths and origin stories which are usually easily distorted from time to time to serve political purpose depending on current prevailing political realities of the people, but it's almost impossible for a people to change their language. 1 Like |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Fejoku: 10:14am On Jul 16, 2023 |
clefstone:LMAO... Your conjectures are just very funny and can only be treated as a comic relief. Now to more serious discussions. Esumei Ukwu definitely is an Igbo name which just like Ezechima points them being Igbo. Both Ugbo and Ogwezi are pure Igbo names. The Bini language has no "gw" alphabets which is enough to rule out it being the origin of that names. Only Ozegbe is a Bini name I find there. No one says a couple of those who migrated with them won't be of Bini descent hence the few Bini sounding names that could be found. Let me ask you this question. Do you really think that Ossai is a Bini name? What are the locations that such names appear? I know that Nsukka people bear that name too and they have no business with Edo/Bini. I encourage you to do more research with an open mind around the East side especially with the various contacts Aboh had in recorded history and not just hearsays. You'll be amazed on what you will find. Did Onitsha people ever claim that they learnt Igbo language from the new location they found themselves? Some things just don't make sense and shouldn't be used in arguments. Whatever Bini names you see in Igbo territories including Anioma are either of few migrants or just a borrowed one. Here is something I want you to research. Both the Igbo and Edo including the Igalas use the four market days of Eke Órìè Afọr Ǹkwọ with little variations. Who do you think owns it originally? If it was Igbo, how did it manage to permeate the entire Edo if not that there was a time a lot of Igbos lived in that very location? Think Clefstone, think. Here's a video of a Benin Chief clarifying who Ezechima was and what title he held in Benin shortly before he emigrated out of Benin. I hope it will help you understand better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UfbFEiz7DE |
Re: Igbo Origin Of The Ndoni And Aboh People - Ndoni Historian by Fejoku: 10:44am On Jul 16, 2023 |
wesley08:Always writing trash. Urhobo and Isoko are both an Edoid speaking group so their claims are very near correct. I used 'very near' because it's either they were a purely Bini speaking people before they migrated from Biniland and their language evolved to what it is today or they spoke an Edoid language from antiquity and were settled closer to Benin before they migrated to their current locations only for pure Bini speakers to migrate into their midst and reinforce their original ancestry. Anioma is a very different case. All about them shouts Igbo. Nothing else can explain why they claim to have a Bini origin. I wonder why we don't see this same identity crises among the Ondo Yorubas who were also influenced by the Benin kingdom. The title of the king of Ondo town is 'Osemawe'. This clearly is an Edoid title but we don't see people of that town claiming that their town was founded by one Bini prince. It's so funny how most Anioma communities always claim they were founded by a Bini prince such that one may ask if all Bini princes are only attracted to Anioma. It is very funny while being self defeating. How many Bini princes ever existed? Who founded all the other Edoid speaking communities and how many were left to found these Anioma communities? It is just shameful to say the least. |
Conflicting Police, DSS Reports On Agom Adara's Killers In Kaduna / Are You Proud Of Your Tribal Mark? / What Is The Significance Of Your Tribe Name
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 209 |