Ologbo147:
stop throwing shades at the Binis, there was no time the Anioma area was larger than the Bini area in landmass and in population even if they have nine local government as against the Binis seven. Local government is not a yardstick for population strength, we ve proven that time and time again. we would have had more local governments today if not for scuffle between our elites that hindered that action.

The Binis are not the ones claiming them, most times these people are the ones extending the olive branch, please stop throwing shade

I never shaded any Bini. I'm just trying to push critical thinking to Clefstone. The only Igbo groups with identity crises who point to Benin as their place of origin both in location and ancestry have 15 lgas: Nine in Anioma and six in Rivers. When you add them together both in landmass and population and compare with Benin, common sense will show you the errors of such thought. When you now consider that there are other Edoid speaking communities/ethnic groups who emigrated from the same Benin, their claims now become very shameful. Esan has five lgas, Afenmai and Owan have six lgas. In Delta central and Delta south, urhobos and Isokos have 10 lgas (I didn't include the Itsekiri people for obvious reasons). In Bayelsa, there's the Epie-Atissa people with one lga and in Rivers, there's the degema people with one lga. The total is 23 lgas with an Edoid speaking people who are not Bini. You as an Bini person should sit down and think very well how the Anioma people well surrounded by Edoid speaking people will end up speaking Igbo and having Igbo culture and traditions.

Fejoku:

I never shaded any Bini. I'm just trying to push critical thinking to Clefstone. The only Igbo groups with identity crises who point to Benin as their place of origin both in location and ancestry have 15 lgas: Nine in Anioma and six in Rivers. When you add them together both in landmass and population and compare with Benin, common sense will show you the errors of such thought. When you now consider that there are other Edoid speaking communities/ethnic groups who emigrated from the same Benin, their claims now become very shameful. Esan has five lgas, Afenmai and Owan have six lgas. In Delta central and Delta south, urhobos and Isokos have 10 lgas (I didn't include the Itsekiri people for obvious reasons). In Bayelsa, there's the Epie-Atissa people with one lga and in Rivers, there's the degema people with one lga. The total is 23 lgas with an Edoid speaking people who are not Bini. You as an Bini person should sit down and think very well how the Anioma people well surrounded by Edoid speaking people will end up speaking Igbo and having Igbo culture and traditions.

could you please highlight some of those Igbo culture and traditions that the Aboh people have?

Fejoku:

LMAO... Your conjectures are just very funny and can only be treated as a comic relief.
Now to more serious discussions. Esumei Ukwu definitely is an Igbo name which just like Ezechima points them being Igbo. Both Ugbo and Ogwezi are pure Igbo names. The Bini language has no "gw" alphabets which is enough to rule out it being the origin of that names. Only Ozegbe is a Bini name I find there.
No one says a couple of those who migrated with them won't be of Bini descent hence the few Bini sounding names that could be found. Let me ask you this question. Do you really think that Ossai is a Bini name? What are the locations that such names appear? I know that Nsukka people bear that name too and they have no business with Edo/Bini. I encourage you to do more research with an open mind around the East side especially with the various contacts Aboh had in recorded history and not just hearsays. You'll be amazed on what you will find.
Did Onitsha people ever claim that they learnt Igbo language from the new location they found themselves? Some things just don't make sense and shouldn't be used in arguments. Whatever Bini names you see in Igbo territories including Anioma are either of few migrants or just a borrowed one. Here is something I want you to research. Both the Igbo and Edo including the Igalas use the four market days of Eke Órìè Afọr Ǹkwọ with little variations. Who do you think owns it originally? If it was Igbo, how did it manage to permeate the entire Edo if not that there was a time a lot of Igbos lived in that very location? Think Clefstone, think.
Here's a video of a Benin Chief clarifying who Ezechima was and what title he held in Benin shortly before he emigrated out of Benin. I hope it will help you understand better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UfbFEiz7DE

Ugbo is also an Edo name, it means farm or bush, it can be given to anyone who the mother had labor pains in farm or maybe who the father was in his farm as at the time such a child was given birth to. Most persons with that name today bear it as a surname check up on “Curtis Eghosa Ugbo” on google

clefstone:
could you please highlight some of those Igbo culture and traditions that the Aboh people have?

Aboh as a name itself is Igbo😀.
There are more than 100 town and villages named Aboh in SE and none in Bini.
In my village Ogidi, one of the nine villages that make up the town is called Aboh-Ogidi. And nope they are not descended from Aboh in Ndokwa, it just happens that when people share language and culture, they tend to repeat words in naming places.

Onicha-Ukwuani
Onicha-Mili ( Onitsha)
Onicha Ngwa(Abia State)
Onicha Uboma (Imo state)
Onicha Enu-Nike ( Enugu)
Onicha Igbo-eze (Ebonyi)
Onicha Ugbo( Enuani)
Onicha Olona( Enuani

Not a single Onicha in Bini land, but Onicha Ukwuani are supposed to be Bini Descendants.
Make it make sense.

Ologbo147:
Ugbo is also an Edo name, it means farm or bush, it can be given to anyone who the mother had labor pains in farm or maybe who the father was in his farm as at the time such a child was given birth to. Most persons with that name today bear it as a surname check up on “Curtis Eghosa Ugbo” on google

Ok. I guess it will be one of those shared names and it still depends on the pronunciation for it to be confirmed so.

Igboid:


I don't think so.
Igbos generally have a live and let live mindset. They will never force their culture on you, infact, they will like to remain distinct from you so that they can always show they are not same as you. Igbo culture can be segregating rather than assimilating, everything is built on Umunna and you can only be a member by biology. This is why many non Igbos resent Igbos. When you are around Ndiigbo, you will always be constantly reminded that you are not an Igbo. It's not even subtle, it's usually blatant. Once a non Igbo experience the non inclusive nature of Igbo tradition towards non members, they tag it Igbo Tribalism and then develop hate for the Igbo. When in truth, the Igbo just want to be Igbo and don't want a foreign body in their affairs, neither will they want to be involved in yours. That's how Igbo Society is.
If Igbanke were of purely Edoid stock, they will remain Edoid speaking till today, irrespective of boundaries they have with Ika speaking towns.
In Anioma we have Odiani ( Yoruba speakers) are surrounded by Enuani Igbo speaking towns yet they retained their Yoruba dialect. We have Ebu too, they speak Igala as mother tongue and Enuani as second language.
In Ebonyi we have the Orring communities totally surrounded by Igbo speaking Ebonyi groups.
The Orring still speak Orring as mother tongue and Igbo as second language.

Igbanke is Igbo speaking because they are founded by Igbo speaking people. A few Bini migrants might have settled among them, but they were insignificant in number and were assimilated by the majority of the Igbos on ground.
Igbanke bear Bini surnames at times because of suffocating pressure applied on the people by Binis in their attempts to assimilate them.
For years Igbanke people struggled to get LG identification certificate from their LG headquarters because the Edos in charge there insist their name is Igboid and must be changed to a befitting Edoid one before handing out the certificates.
Many Igbanke also changed their Igboid names to Edoid ones during the civil war and post civil war to avoid being persecuted as Ibos!
With the depotic strangling effect of Bini on Igbanke neck, it's a miracle they have retained their Igbo dialect this far. It goes to show you how difficult it is to eradicate a people language or to make them drop it for yours even when under duress, let alone when no such empire influence or pressure exists.
This makes nonsense of the stories of Igbo speaking groups who claim to have been influenced by Igbos to drop their original non Igbo languages for Igbo one. That is impossible when you realize that not even Bini with an empire could achieve such language change on a people, not even Fulani rulers in Ilorin could change the Yoruba language of native Yorubas of Ilorin, let alone Igbos who had no such Empire or power.
It's a fantasy stories that expose deep sitted inferiority complex of Igbo speaking groups that parrot such irrational stories.

My brother, I am not disputing the fact that it was founded by Igbo brethren.

But what I am opining is this, if it was bounded on two fronts by two larger Bini communities in the local government council, and maybe a fairly larger one on another front. It would have been eaten up or undoubtedly bilingual today as a whole in order for them to survive, since they will be interacting with their neighbors everyday, and maybe they will identify as Edos today

It would have been altered beyond the way it is to an igboid language, it is not up to them, it would just be an unconscious act. Just the way Usen and Utesse were altered on the western flank because they communed with their immediate bordered Edo neighbors everyday.(Usen speak both Usen and Bini and they identify as Binis today. Utesse speak a heavy mixture of Bini and Yoruba that seem to have evolved into a distinct language not belonging to any of the two. And the density on the western frontiers is considerably lesser than as it is on the eastern Bini frontiers. What people don’t seem to know is that when people say Igbanke is in Edo State and they manage to retain their language, it passes of a deceptive note to the one that is less informed. they are only just in Edo state, Edo south precisely, but they are not bordered by Bini/Edo people.

Their first thought would be that oh not knowing that on all fronts they are not even bordered by Edo people


The local government identification thing is not enough to change anything, we are talking about consistent communication among direct neighbors for centuries

Some of the Bini surnames in Ika proper, where are they now from, are we going to delude ourselves that the majority of the Bini sounding surnames in Igbanke came up as a result of the oppression at the Lga office?

Let me tell you on good note, I have met many Igbankes both men and women. Many at the university of Benin (lecturers and students alike)and several other places. You know those things our parents use to do those days. When they notice that a visitor from another tribe is around, and they want to discuss with their children something secret, they discuss in their native language. As a Bini man I have learnt not to try that with an Igbanke man. Because many times I was always in for a shocker

Igboid:


Aboh as a name itself is Igbo😀.
There are more than 100 town and villages named Aboh in SE and none in Bini.
In my village Ogidi, one of the nine villages that make up the town is called Aboh-Ogidi. And nope they are not descended from Aboh in Ndokwa, it just happens that when people share language and culture, they tend to repeat words in naming places.

Onicha-Ukwuani
Onicha-Mili ( Onitsha)
Onicha Ngwa(Abia State)
Onicha Uboma (Imo state)
Onicha Enu-Nike ( Enugu)
Onicha Igbo-eze (Ebonyi)
Onicha Ugbo( Enuani)
Onicha Olona( Enuani

Not a single Onicha in Bini land, but Onicha Ukwuani are supposed to be Bini Descendants.
Make it make sense.

so the name Aboh and the many prefixed Aboh towns in the SE are the similar culture you could point at. Very funny. What is the meaning of Aboh in Igbo and why are all the Abohs in SE prefixed on the names of those towns as seen in Aro- bearing towns.

Since you have failed to answer my question, I ask again: aside language what are the cultural similarities between the Abohs and Igbos. Let's start with Igbo enwe eze

Fejoku:

LMAO... Your conjectures are just very funny and can only be treated as a comic relief.
Now to more serious discussions. Esumei Ukwu definitely is an Igbo name which just like Ezechima points them being Igbo. Both Ugbo and Ogwezi are pure Igbo names. The Bini language has no "gw" alphabets which is enough to rule out it being the origin of that names. Only Ozegbe is a Bini name I find there.
No one says a couple of those who migrated with them won't be of Bini descent hence the few Bini sounding names that could be found. Let me ask you this question. Do you really think that Ossai is a Bini name? What are the locations that such names appear? I know that Nsukka people bear that name too and they have no business with Edo/Bini. I encourage you to do more research with an open mind around the East side especially with the various contacts Aboh had in recorded history and not just hearsays. You'll be amazed on what you will find.
Did Onitsha people ever claim that they learnt Igbo language from the new location they found themselves? Some things just don't make sense and shouldn't be used in arguments. Whatever Bini names you see in Igbo territories including Anioma are either of few migrants or just a borrowed one. Here is something I want you to research. Both the Igbo and Edo including the Igalas use the four market days of Eke Órìè Afọr Ǹkwọ with little variations. Who do you think owns it originally? If it was Igbo, how did it manage to permeate the entire Edo if not that there was a time a lot of Igbos lived in that very location? Think Clefstone, think.
Here's a video of a Benin Chief clarifying who Ezechima was and what title he held in Benin shortly before he emigrated out of Benin. I hope it will help you understand better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UfbFEiz7DE

Ossai is an Igbo name? Haha. Tell anybody in Nigeria that doesn't know the name that your name is Ossai and have them guess where you are from. Ugbo is a Bini word and name as you have been enlightened on already. Aboh ancient names are clearly non-Igbo names

clefstone:
so the name Aboh and the many prefixed Aboh towns in the SE are the similar culture you could point at. Very funny. What is the meaning of Aboh in Igbo and why are all the Abohs in SE prefixed on the names of those towns as seen in Aro- bearing towns.

Since you have failed to answer my question, I ask again: aside language what are the cultural similarities between the Abohs and Igbos. Let's start with Igbo enwe eze

Igbo enwe eze means that there is no one king for all Igbo tribes.
On the other hand, it also emphasizes the Democratic nature of most Igbo clans.
There were ofcourse Igbo tribes that had kings, but these kings were mainly titular ones, since the lands still belonged to the Umunna and not to the king per say.
Example of such is Eze Nri, Eze Aro, Eze Abiriba (Enanchioke).

We say Igbo enwe eze and this goes together with the other saying: Igbo ama eze.
This is in recognition of the fact that even when a king exists in Igbo clan, the members of the clans are never his subjects, rather he is but their representative.

Igbos generally practiced Gerontocracy somehow.
The eldest Son (Okpalaukwu/Diokpala) in an Obi/Umunna serves as the holder of the offor of the Obi/Umunna and represent the Umunna in some important town meetings,to communicate their decision which must have been agreed unanimously at the Umunna meeting.
I believe this Igbo foundational representative democracy roped in Gerontocracy is also found in Ndokwa/Ukwuani region.

Aboh uses the Igbo four market days of Eke, Orie/Olie/Oye, Afor/Ahor, Nkwo.

Aboh reveres the Igbo earth goddess Ani/Ana/Ala/Ali.

Aboh does the Igbo Mmanwu festival.

Aboh believes in a supreme being called Chukwu Olisa that lives in the sky (Igwe).

Aboh breaks the kolanut and uses it to welcome visitors as well as worship of ancestors

This argument is infact pointless, because how can you even say apart from language?
I mean a people language is the motor that convey their culture, customs and traditions.

Death is Onwu in Aboh.
Life is Ndu
People are Osa/Ora/Oha
Water is mili
Food is Nni/Nri/Ihe/Ife oriri/olili

I mean these are basic things a people can never borrow the name of them from others.

clefstone:
Ossai is an Igbo name? Haha. Tell anybody in Nigeria that doesn't know the name that your name is Ossai and have them guess where you are from. Ugbo is a Bini word and name as you have been enlightened on already. Aboh ancient names are clearly non-Igbo names

Ossai is Igbo name.
I bet we have more Ossai from Nsukka than we have from the whole Delta North.
Shows how little you know about Igbo tribes.
Bini is too small to have given Igbos the word Ugbo.
My guess is that Bini borrowed Ugbo from Igbos, because Farm is called Ugbo all the way from Anambra to Ebonyi, Abia, Enugu and Imo.

On Ossai:
This is Ifeanyi Ossai from Nsukka:

"On his part, Coordinator of the group, Ifeanyi Ossai; Chairman, Association of Local Governments of Nigeria (ALGON), Enugu chapter, Hon. Solomon Onah; members of National Assembly represented by Hon. Pat Asadu and Hon. Simon Atigwe, as well as members of the state House of Assembly, represented by Hon. Chinedu Nwamba supported Abba’s submission."

https://guardian.ng/news/enugu-group-odinma-nsukka-passes-vote-of-confidence-in-ugwuanyi/

This is Nwa Ossai foundation hospital in Udenu Nsukka Enugu:https://thehospitalbook.com/nwa-ossai-foundation-hospital-and-maternity/

Actual history.
Map published in 1747.
Author: Emanuel Bowen.

https://uniquemaps.eu/products/rare-old-map-of-africa-1747-by-emanuel-bowen-pre-colonial-handcoloured-slave-trade-negroland-ethiopia-barbary-nubia

You guys do too much blabla, our part of the earth has been recieving literate visitors since the 1400's, those visitors wrote documents which describe our region and which we can access today. So why not look at those documents? Why doing everything but looking at historical documents while discussing history?
Why are you guys not smarter than children ?

Stoplying:
Actual history.
Map published in 1747.
Author: Emanuel Bowen.

https://uniquemaps.eu/products/rare-old-map-of-africa-1747-by-emanuel-bowen-pre-colonial-handcoloured-slave-trade-negroland-ethiopia-barbary-nubia

You guys do too much blabla, our part of the earth has been recieving literate visitors since the 1400's, those visitors wrote documents which describe our region and which we can access today. So why not look at those documents? Why doing everything but looking at historical documents while discussing history?
Why are you guys not smarter than children ?

Hey, Smarty pants, which 1400s literate visitor wrote about the origins of Aboh and Ndoni?

RedboneSmith:


Hey, Smarty pants, which 1400s literate visitor wrote about the origins of Aboh and Ndoni?

Hey dummy pants, did you ask yourself if you guys were not doing something stupid ?
If there is no eyewitness written document which you can quote in the matter, then perhaps there is no actual answer to the question.
You guys are only going to do some intellectual masturbation by constantly speculating based on your own biases and impressions and emotions and huge lack of knowledge.

Also what exactly do you mean by "origins of Aboh and Ndoni" ? You act as if time started at a given date and the "Aboh and Ndoni" were somewhere in that date and then moved to where they are today. You don't actually understand time very well.

"Igbo origin" as if Igbo has been in existence since the beginning of the earth.
By looking at precolonial documents you can look for the first mention of Igbo and the first mention of "Aboh and Ndoni". The fact Igbo exists today doesn't imply it existed 400 years ago nor that its form has always been what you concieve it to be today.

I prefer to talk about things which can be researched and proven:
https://uniquemaps.eu/products/rare-old-map-of-africa-1747-by-emanuel-bowen-pre-colonial-handcoloured-slave-trade-negroland-ethiopia-barbary-nubia

Stoplying:

Hey dummy pants, did you ask yourself if you guys were not doing something stupid ?
If there is no eyewitness written document which you can quote in the matter, then perhaps there is no actual answer to the question.
You guys are only going to do some intellectual masturbation by constantly speculating based on your own biases and impressions and emotions and huge lack of knowledge.

You sound like a bellend. A methodology for deriving historical data from oral tradition has been developed since the 1970s by historians like Jan Vansina. Add to that the work of historical linguists like Christopher Ehret, it is now possible to use a combinations of traditions, ethnography and information gleaned from language to reconstruct the history of preliterate people. You sound like a dead white man from the 1700s when you imply only eyewitness written document are valid as historical records.

Also what exactly do you mean by "origins of Aboh and Ndoni" ? You act as if time started at a given date and the "Aboh and Ndoni" were somewhere in that date and then moved to where they are today. You don't actually understand time very well.

"Igbo origin" as if Igbo was has been in existence since the beginning of the earth.
By looking at Precolonial documents you can look for the first mention of Igbo and the first mention of "Aboh and Ndoni". The fact Igbo exists today doesn't imply it existed 400 years ago nor that its form has always been what you concieve it to be today.

Everything in this section is off-tangential nonsense, not remotely worthy of a response. You seem to be making an effort to sound intelligent and failing.

RedboneSmith:


You sound like a bellend. A methodology for deriving historical data from oral tradition has been developed since the 1970s by historians like Jan Vansina.

That guy was a quack. Oral tradition is not history at all, it is a bunch of fairytales. That historian is a dumbass, and what he did is not scientific at all.
That is if such person even exists.

Oral tradition is not based on a logical understanding of history but rather a facilitation of "filling the gaps" with made up nonsense.

When you study history in countries which actually value history, you start to see the difference between real history and Nigerian fairytales.

Nothing is magical my friend, there has to be a logical, a scientific basis to whatever you do.

Igboid:
On Ossai:
This is Ifeanyi Ossai from Nsukka:

"On his part, Coordinator of the group, Ifeanyi Ossai; Chairman, Association of Local Governments of Nigeria (ALGON), Enugu chapter, Hon. Solomon Onah; members of National Assembly represented by Hon. Pat Asadu and Hon. Simon Atigwe, as well as members of the state House of Assembly, represented by Hon. Chinedu Nwamba supported Abba’s submission."

https://guardian.ng/news/enugu-group-odinma-nsukka-passes-vote-of-confidence-in-ugwuanyi/

This is Nwa Ossai foundation hospital in Udenu Nsukka Enugu:https://thehospitalbook.com/nwa-ossai-foundation-hospital-and-maternity/

Ossai may be the most common surname in all of Delta state. It is so common that people that bear the name are hardly relatives. If you say more people bear Ossai in Nsukka than in Ndokwa/Ukwuani, it means you make careless statements.

I know Nsukka people bear Ossai (the current Dep Gov of Enugu State bear the Surname) but the only possible explanation for that is that they have people that moved from Delta axis to that location. The people of Aboh are widely dispersed in all of Southern Nigeria, from Igala down to the Coast fyi

bigfrancis21:


Could you list out these differences in religious practices and culture? Politics is not a good measure of correlation between two groups.

Politics is a good measure of the Culture once you see any Oba you are safe believing he descended from Oduduwa and.Ile Ife

clefstone:
Ossai may be the most common surname in all of Delta state. It is so common that people that bear the name are hardly relatives. If you say more people bear Ossai in Nsukka than in Ndokwa/Ukwuani, it means you make careless statements.

I know Nsukka people bear Ossai (the current Dep Gov of Enugu State bear the Surname) but the only possible explanation for that is that they have people that moved from Delta axis to that location. The people of Aboh are widely dispersed in all of Southern Nigeria, from Igala down to the Coast fyi

No Aboh person migrated into Nsukka.
Nsukka is older than Aboh, the Lejja Iron works proves this and the sheer population of Nsukka zone is a pointer as well.
So you might as well look for Aboh Descendants elsewhere, as no one in SE is Bini, we are all Igbo and couldn't have come from a group of Bini people who mysteriously lost their Bini language despite defeating and taking over the land of Igbo speaking Akili people. Imagine cock and bull stories.

Again Nsukka is more populated than the entire Ndokwa Ukwuani region and hence will 100% have more Ossai than Ndokwa/Ukwuani zone, this is again common sense.

The communities bearing Aboh in Igboland have no history of migration from Aboh in Ndokwa, infact most of those communities in SE with Aboh as name are older than recently formed Aboh in Delta.

Igboid:


No Aboh person migrated into Nsukka.
Nsukka is older than Aboh, the Lejja Iron works proves this and the sheer population of Nsukka zone is a pointer as well.
So you might as well look for Aboh Descendants elsewhere, as no one in SE is Bini, we are all Igbo and couldn't have come from a group of Bini people who mysteriously lost their Bini language despite defeating and taking over the land of Igbo speaking Akili people. Imagine cock and bull stories.

Again Nsukka is more populated than the entire Ndokwa Ukwuani region and hence will 100% have more Ossai than Ndokwa/Ukwuani zone, this is again common sense.

The communities bearing Aboh in Igboland have no history of migration from Aboh in Ndokwa, infact most of those communities in SE with Aboh as name are older than recently formed Aboh in Delta.

Like I said before, you argue carelessly, turning assumptions to fact in your fantasy world. Ossai is an Ndokwa/Ukwuani name, fact! The commonality of the name in those parts would only mean that the Nsukka people bearing that name are most likely from that axis. It doesn't mean that Aboh is older than Nsukka.

The Aboh people were some of the most mobile group in the whole of Southern Nigeria like the Igalas. The result is that there are Aboh people that have lived in other places for centuries and lost all trace to their homeland. The reason for the Abohs dispersal is trade, access to the Niger etc.

You are so biased in your arguments its becoming irritating

clefstone:
Like I said before, you argue carelessly, turning assumptions to fact in your fantasy world. Ossai is an Ndokwa/Ukwuani name, fact! The commonality of the name in those parts would only mean that the Nsukka people bearing that name are most likely from that axis. It doesn't mean that Aboh is older than Nsukka.

The Aboh people were some of the most mobile group in the whole of Southern Nigeria like the Igalas. The result is that there are Aboh people that have lived in other places for centuries and lost all trace to their homeland. The reason for the Abohs dispersal is trade, access to the Niger etc.

You are so biased in your arguments its becoming irritating

Nsukka has no history of interactions with Ndokwa people. Nsukka people were not trading along river Niger.
Move on bro.
I don't know where you got your attached picture from, but it doesn't make sense.

Aboh was not known for distant INLAND expeditions. Generally, places far out of the reach of their canoes were beyond the pale of their activities.

Thus their activities were for the most part restricted to the Niger and its tributaries. Aguleri, Nsugbe and Anam which are riverine, and actively involved with Aboh do not bear Ossai, but somehow the name crops up in very significant numbers in Nsukka axis far in the hinterland where there is not the slightest sliver of Aboh traditions. No, you cannot explain that by invoking Aboh colonisation. Some other explanation has to be sought.

clefstone:
Ossai may be the most common surname in all of Delta state. It is so common that people that bear the name are hardly relatives. If you say more people bear Ossai in Nsukka than in Ndokwa/Ukwuani, it means you make careless statements.

I know Nsukka people bear Ossai (the current Dep Gov of Enugu State bear the Surname) but the only possible explanation for that is that they have people that moved from Delta axis to that location. The people of Aboh are widely dispersed in all of Southern Nigeria, from Igala down to the Coast fyi

As a matter of fact, Aboh itself has a lot of her people originating from the Nsukka area. If you care to do surname comparison for both areas(Ndokwa and Nsukka), you'll be amazed at the similarities you'll find. I however doubt the sincerity of your quest for knowledge. You're more inclined at pushing a certain narrative than being open to the facts on ground.
Let's examine the most probable way 'Ossai' as a name could have come up or diffused to the Ndokwa area and/or Nsukka area.
1. If it first came up in the Ndokwa area, how did it move to the Nsukka area? Did some people from Ndokwa (Aboh) migrate to Nsukka area at any point in time? What could have been the reason for their migration and what is the likely path of their migration?
2. If it first came up in the Nsukka area, how did it move to the Ndokwa(Aboh) area? Did some Nsukka people migrate to Aboh at any point in time and what could have been the reason for their migration? What was the path they journeyed through to have arrived at Aboh?
When you examine both scenarios, you will see that the second scenario is more plausible owing to the fact that Nsukka is far older than Aboh. The most probable path of the journey would have been by water(River Niger) and recorded traffic shows people from the Nsukka area being brought to Aboh during the old days. Most probable cause for the migration in scene 2 is the plunder of the area by Igala invaders unlike Aboh and Ndokwa that had no such invaders.
Conclusion is that the second scenario is more plausible in the absence of the name being autochthonous to both areas.
Check another surname known as 'Ogbole'. It exists both in Nsukka and Ndokwa. I hope you're getting the idea now.
There's another surname called 'Alumona' that I found in both Nsukka and Aniocha north (Issele Ukwu) to be precise.
The same way 'Ugbo' in Aboh's history is most likely the same name in Asaba's history which is an Igbo name.
Finally, below is a work done by one of your brothers who did a well detailed research and comparison. His findings are very consistent with what I've been saying. Some of those touted migrants from Benin were originally of Igbo origin and they spoke Igbo which is why they named their children Igbo names mostly.
See below.

Igboid:


Ossai is Igbo name.
I bet we have more Ossai from Nsukka than we have from the whole Delta North.
Shows how little you know about Igbo tribes.
Bini is too small to have given Igbos the word Ugbo.
My guess is that Bini borrowed Ugbo from Igbos, because Farm is called Ugbo all the way from Anambra to Ebonyi, Abia, Enugu and Imo.

Bini borrowed what? Ugbo? Common, that is a word visible in almost all Edoid languages. Even non-Edoid group that had zero contact with Igbo make use of the word. It means Forest/Bushes/uncleared path. Or did Ilaje, Itsekiri, Ikale also borrowed it from Igbo?

I can give you a deep usage in Edoid. Infact, there is a town called Ugbokodo in Okpe, when translated into English from Urhobo, it means the forest is deep. "Ugbo-na-kodo-r'. "

My issue with you is that you are always economical with historical facts. You find ways to twist things to suit your idealogy. clefstone is right with some of his submissions.

What most of you confuse is that you think Edoid starts and ends with Bini. Infact, a lot has happened before the Bini empire took shape. The true origin of all Edoid people before the migration could even be from a remote area in Esan. Bini's influences overshadowed everything but that doesn't change the fact that some ancestors of what we today know as Anioma are Edoid.

Efewestern:


Bini borrowed what? Ugbo? Common, that is a word visible in almost all Edoid languages. Even non-Edoid group that had zero contact with Igbo make use of the word. It means Forest/Bushes/uncleared path. Or did Ilaje, Itsekiri, Ikale also borrowed it from Igbo?

I can give you a deep usage in Edoid. Infact, there is a town called Ugbokodo in Okpe, when translated into English from Urhobo, it means the forest is deep. "Ugbo-na-kodo-r'. "

My issue with you is that you are always economical with historical facts. You find ways to twist things to suit your idealogy. clefstone is right with some of his submissions.

What most of you confuse is that you think Edoid starts and ends with Bini. Infact, a lot has happened before the Bini empire took shape. The true origin of all Edoid people before the migration could even be from a remote area in Esan. Bini's influences overshadowed everything but that doesn't change the fact that some ancestors of what we today know as Anioma are Edoid.

Ugbo is Igbo, Igbo is bigger than all Edoids combined. Do the maths.

It is also fact that a large percentage of what you call Edoid today are of Igbo origin, or you think the tail( Edo) can wag the dog( Igbo) ?

RedboneSmith:
Aboh was not known for distant INLAND expeditions. Generally, places far out of the reach of their canoes were beyond the pale of their activities.

Thus their activities were for the most part restricted to the Niger and its tributaries. Aguleri, Nsugbe and Anam which are riverine, and actively involved with Aboh do not bear Ossai, but somehow the name crops up in very significant numbers in Nsukka axis far in the hinterland where there is not the slightest sliver of Aboh traditions. No, you cannot explain that by invoking Aboh colonisation. Some other explanation has to be sought.

I have not asserted here that Aboh colonized Nsukka, I only made the assertion that Aboh people who settled in Nsukka most likely took the Surname Ossai to that axis.

You are very right when you wrote that Aboh was not known for distant inland expeditions. However, Aboh people were known to have a strong trade and social relationship with the Igalas. It is on record that the Obi of Aboh's son went to Idah to settle a dispute that arose relating to Aboh people in Igalaland in the 19th century. What this means is that Aboh people were settled in Igala at that time. The opposite is also the case as we have people of Igala ancestry who have lived in Aboh for more than hundred years, and are now fully Aboh people(I personally know some).

Some of these Aboh people must have found their way to Nsukka from Igala and took the name Ossai there. Infact, I was amazed once when a friend told me he father's place use to phrase "m'biaka" to say "I am coming" which is exactly what we say in Aboh

Ossai is also a Bini sounding name. If you tell anyone your name is Ossai, you are most likely going to be asked if you are from Edo State. Fact!

You have to study the history of the Aboh people very well to understand some of these things. The Aboh people were very dispersed because of the distant trading nature of Aboh in those times. You also have to understand that those times are not like now when people get stuck to their ancestral homes. During those period anywhere you find yourself that you are accepted becomes home. For example, there is a family called Enebeli in Effurun, the Urhobo axis of Delta State(cc Efewestern). This family are completely assimilated in Uvwie land and have family compound and street there which I have seen with my very eyes. Recently, I was told they are originally from Aboh although not confirmed. But Enebeli is a strong Ndokwa/Ukwuani name like Ossai.

My dad told me a story of how his father took him and his brothers to the East of the Niger to find some of their "lost" family members in the 50s. These family members had lived away from Aboh for many many decades, most of them(adults) were not born in Aboh and had never been to Aboh. His mission was to encourage them to come back home and expand the family. There are many people of Aboh ancestry like them all over the place that when you see any trace of Ndokwa/Ukwuani culture anywhere distant from the Ndokwa axis, your first suspicion should always be Aboh!
Cc Fejoku, Igboid

Igboid:


Nsukka has no history of interactions with Ndokwa people. Nsukka people were not trading along river Niger.
Move on bro.
I don't know where you got your attached picture from, but it doesn't make sense.

let us place a bet. We contract a 3rd party to investigate if there are more Ossais in Ndokwa/Ukwuani axis than Nsukka. Whoever loses would close their NL account. Deal?

clefstone:
I have not asserted here that Aboh colonized Nsukka, I only made the assertion that Aboh people who settled in Nsukka most likely took the Surname Ossai to that axis.

You are very right when you wrote that Aboh was not known for distant inland expeditions. However, Aboh people were known to have a strong trade and social relationship with the Igalas. It is on record that the Obi of Aboh's son went to Idah to settle a dispute that arose relating to Aboh people in Igalaland in the 19th century. What this means is that Aboh people were settled in Igala at that time. The opposite is also the case as we have people of Igala ancestry who have lived in Aboh for more than hundred years, and are now fully Aboh people(I personally know some).

Some of these Aboh people must have found their way to Nsukka from Igala and took the name Ossai there. Infact, I was amazed once when a friend told me he father's place use to phrase "m'biaka" to say "I am coming" which is exactly what we say in Aboh

Ossai is also a Bini sounding name. If you tell anyone your name is Ossai, you are most likely going to be asked if you are from Edo State. Fact!

You have to study the history of the Aboh people very well to understand some of these things. The Aboh people were very dispersed because of the distant trading nature of Aboh in those times. You also have to understand that those times are not like now when people get stuck to their ancestral homes. During those period anywhere you find yourself that you are accepted becomes home. For example, there is a family called Enebeli in Effurun, the Urhobo axis of Delta State(cc Efewestern). This family are completely assimilated in Uvwie land and have family compound and street there which I have seen with my very eyes. Recently, I was told they are originally from Aboh although not confirmed. But Enebeli is a strong Ndokwa/Ukwuani name like Ossai.

My dad told me a story of how his father took him and his brothers to the East of the Niger to find some of their "lost" family members in the 50s. These family members had lived away from Aboh for many many decades, most of them(adults) were not born in Aboh and had never been to Aboh. His mission was to encourage them to come back home and expand the family. There are many people of Aboh ancestry like them all over the place that when you see any trace of Ndokwa/Ukwuani culture anywhere distant from the Ndokwa axis, your first suspicion should always be Aboh!
Cc Fejoku, Igboid

Laughable.
Both Aboh and Bini are too small in population and recent in terms of antiquity in comparison to Nsukka.
It's ridiculous and outright delusional the sort of things you guys believe and project over there.
I can only shudder at how warped your mindsets are.

If at all there is transfer, it Should be from Nsukka to Igala and from Igala to Aboh.
Because Igbo Nsukka is very old and is one of the founding members of Igala ethnic group alongside the Yorubas, Junkun and Okpotos.

So the only plausible way the transfer you propose could have happened is from Nsukka to Igala and from Igala to Aboh.

But alas, Igala don't bear the name Ossai, so off goes that your little fantasy.

Keep running in circles.

Igboid:

Laughable.
Both Aboh and Bini are too small in population and recent in terms of antiquity in comparison to Nsukka.
It's ridiculous and outright delusional the sort of things you guys believe and project over there.
I can only shudder at how warped your mindsets are.

If at all there is transfer, it Should be from Nsukka to Igala and from Igala to Aboh.
Because Igbo Nsukka is very old and is one of the founding members of Igala ethnic group alongside the Yorubas, Junkun and Okpotos.

So the only plausible way the transfer you propose could have happened is from Nsukka to Igala and from Igala to Aboh.

But alas, Igala don't bear the name Ossai, so off goes that your little fantasy.

Keep running in circles.

so his come you have Bini surnames in Onitsha an "Igbo land". You argue without sound logic or maybe you embarrass yourself just because you use illogical points just to twist narratives to suit you

clefstone:
so his come you have Bini surnames in Onitsha an "Igbo land". You argue without sound logic or maybe you embarrass yourself just because you use illogical points just to twist narratives to suit you

What Bini surnames in Onitsha?
You mean Bini borrowed titles which in most cases are actually Ife borrowed since what we call Bini is actually an Ife invasion and rulership of native Edoid tribes, as can be deciphered from truths being spilled over to onlookers by the ongoing battle between the deposed Edoid ruler of the area the Ogiemien and the new Ife conquerors who instituted the Yoruba Oba system, ie Oba Bini, as against Ogie/Ovie/Ojie as found in other Edoid speaking lands.

What bigger embarrassment can be found than the sort of group shared psychosis passed from generation to generation in Aboh, where grown ups believe their ancestors suffered brain damage on the journey from Bini that is just a stone throw away, so much that they lost their Edoid language despite having Edoid speaking Isoko neighbours and replaced it with Igbo language, the language of local Akili people they supposedly conquered.

This story above only makes sense to a people suffering from inferiority complex and love for fantasies and irrational stories.

It's an Ikegwuru situation bro.

clefstone:
I have not asserted here that Aboh colonized Nsukka, I only made the assertion that Aboh people who settled in Nsukka most likely took the Surname Ossai to that axis.

That's the problem. There is a total absence of traditions of familiarity with Aboh in Nsukka area. Given the fact that Aboh Kingdom isn't that ancient (was probably established no earlier than the late 15th/16th century) this absence of traditions cannot be explained away by postulating that Aboh-Nsukka interactions are so ancient that they have been forgotten; I would expect to hear echoes of Aboh presence. There are zero echoes and that's quite telling. Meanwhile there are echoes in Ossomala, in Nnewi, in Oraifite, in Aguleri, etc. Why nothing from Nsukka which uses the name Ossai much much much more than the aforementioned places? It's not adding up.

You are very right when you wrote that Aboh was not known for distant inland expeditions. However, Aboh people were known to have a strong trade and social relationship with the Igalas. It is on record that the Obi of Aboh's son went to Idah to settle a dispute that arose relating to Aboh people in Igalaland in the 19th century. What this means is that Aboh people were settled in Igala at that time. The opposite is also the case as we have people of Igala ancestry who have lived in Aboh for more than hundred years, and are now fully Aboh people(I personally know some).

Some of these Aboh people must have found their way to Nsukka from Igala and took the name Ossai there. Infact, I was amazed once when a friend told me he father's place use to phrase "m'biaka" to say "I am coming" which is exactly what we say in Aboh.

The problem with this theory of Aboh getting into Nsukka via Igala is that it fails to take cognizance of the fact that the different groups who dominated trade on the Niger had trade zones that they guarded fiercely and wouldn't let their competitors gain access to. While the Igala and the Aboh were without a doubt in intensive commercial, political and economic contacts, they would not have in their heyday given Aboh access to their trade routes through the Nsukka area. And even if that access was granted, would the water-based Aboh have even found it attractive? In times of conflict with the Aboh, Anam people would simply relocate their villages inland away from the river Anambra, and that was usually sufficient to keep the Aboh warriors at bay. Onicha has a tradition that their town was built a few miles inland of the Niger for a similar reason. These traditions suggest that the Aboh were generally averse to traversing far from the reach of their canoes. Nsukka area would have held no attractions for them: the terrain was far from navigable rivers and was unsuited to their system.

With that said, however, I still think the Igala had something to do with Ossai names in Nsukka. I will share my opinion on how later.

Ossai is also a Bini sounding name. If you tell anyone your name is Ossai, you are most likely going to be asked if you are from Edo State. Fact!

This has to be stated emphatically. Ossai is NOT in any shape or form a Benin name or an Edoid name. Ossai is an Anioma/West-Niger Igboid name through and through. The reason why it sounds Benin is because of the Osa/Ossa there which sounds like the word used in the Edo-Anioma continuum as a shortened name for God. I have even seen Edo people try to argue that it is related to the Benin name Osayi which means "God creates" or something like that. Ọ̀sàyí is not even pronounced anything like Ọ̀sáị̀ (note the inflections.)

The name you people in Ukwuani know as Ossai is known in Enuani (Ika and Aniocha-Oshimili) as Ohai, and in Onitsha across the Niger as Urai. If it was related to Benin Ọ̀sàyí, the "s" would not have changed to "h" and "r" in Enuani and Onitsha respectively, since Enuani and Onitsha don't call God Oha or Ura, but call him Osa/Ose (maintaining the "s" as in Benin). Basic linguistics.

If you are observant, you may have noticed that where Ukwuani uses "s", Enuani would use "h" and Onitsha would use "r". Where Ukwuani says "Osa" (public), an Aniocha man would say "oha" and an Onitsha man would say "ora". Where Ukwuani says "isu" (face), Aniocha says "ihu" and Onitsha says "iru".

This regular sound changes (s, h, r) yielded Ossai in Ukwuani, Ohai in Enuani and Urai in Onitsha. All three refer to the same thing, i.e., a deity which was associated with child-bearing and fertility. This is an Anioma concept through and through and has nothing to do with Benin.

And about Nsukka and Ossai: So, yea, even though I doubt that Aboh brought the name directly to Nsukka, I am still of the opinion that it ultimately diffused indirectly from Aboh and environs. The name Ochai is common among the Igala, and it could have easily been brought to them by the Aboh. The Igala who had no “s” in their phonology, switched the s-sound in Ossai with a “ch”. From the Igala the name could have been passed into the Nsukka zone. Nsukka people appear to have changed a couple of ch-sounds in Igala to s-sounds. For example the Igala name/title Achadu which became Asadu in Nsukka.

Long story short, while I agree with the plausibility of Ossai in Nsukka ultimately coming from the Aboh area, I don’t agree that Aboh people settled in any significant number in Nsukka: the name probably diffused there through the Igala area who adopted it from Aboh traders.

You have to study the history of the Aboh people very well to understand some of these things. The Aboh people were very dispersed because of the distant trading nature of Aboh in those times. You also have to understand that those times are not like now when people get stuck to their ancestral homes. During those period anywhere you find yourself that you are accepted becomes home. For example, there is a family called Enebeli in Effurun, the Urhobo axis of Delta State(cc Efewestern). This family are completely assimilated in Uvwie land and have family compound and street there which I have seen with my very eyes. Recently, I was told they are originally from Aboh although not confirmed. But Enebeli is a strong Ndokwa/Ukwuani name like Ossai.

There’s nothing strange here. Aboh’s influence in the Isoko-Urhobo area is well-acknowledged. The ivie of Abraka and a number of other places in that axis were confirmed in office by the Obi of Aboh. The question is whether there’s a similar acknowledgment for the Nsukka zone. And the answer is no.

My dad told me a story of how his father took him and his brothers to the East of the Niger to find some of their "lost" family members in the 50s. These family members had lived away from Aboh for many many decades, most of them(adults) were not born in Aboh and had never been to Aboh. His mission was to encourage them to come back home and expand the family. There are many people of Aboh ancestry like them all over the place that when you see any trace of Ndokwa/Ukwuani culture anywhere distant from the Ndokwa axis, your first suspicion should always be Aboh!
Cc Fejoku, Igboid

I’d like to know where in the East your dad meant. If it turns out to be Nsugbe, Aguleri, Onitsha, Atani, Ossomala, Oguta, or even slightly inland places like Nnewi, Oraifite, Ihiala and Uli, which had navigable waterways that led down to the Niger and which have references to Aboh or Olu traders and mercenary fighters in their midst then there’s nothing surprising there. If however it turns out to be Amagunze or Lokpanta or Nsukka, then that would be quite a reveal.

Igboid:


Ugbo is Igbo, Igbo is bigger than all Edoids combined. Do the maths.

It is also fact that a large percentage of what you call Edoid today are of Igbo origin, or you think the tail( Edo) can wag the dog( Igbo) ?

Did the Yorubas also borrowed the word from Igbo? A word that is visible in almost all Yoruboid and Edoid dialect suddenly originated from Igboid ? Make it make sense.

A large percentage of what part of Edoid is Igbo? You can start by listing the Edoid groups/communities that are mostly of Igboid origin. Of course, there is no denying that some communities had a touch of Igbo ancestors, but your claim of majority is fraudulent at best.

I have told you several times that no group grows in isolation. There is always a blend of external ancestry. You are they one doing everything you can to erase the Edoid and Igala origin of your people in other to push your supremacist goals.

Fact is fact. Agbor people is made up of Edo and Igbo ancestors. Heck, even the Odiani are of Owo and Akure origin.