Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:48am On Jul 17, 2023 |
preciousee17: The Bible book of Revelations was written like illustrations not to be taken literally, nobody will stand literally before any judge rather resurrected unbelievers will have the opportunity to hear the Good News of God's kingdom for them to decide whether they will accept Jesus as king or not that's what it means! |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Nobody: 9:20am On Jul 17, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse: Shall we open the Bible to see that we will all stand before the Throne of Judgement? |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:52am On Jul 17, 2023 |
preciousee17:Do you know what the throne of judgment symbolises in that Bible book? Before you open to the book of Revelations i will advise you to find the meaning of symbolic terms like: © Locusts. 9:7 © Babylon. 17:5 © Wild Beast. 17:8 © The woman. 12:1 © Dragon. 12:3 © Dragon's seven heads and ten horns. 12:3 There are many more but let's figure out the meaning of these symbolic terms before going to "Judgment Throne" |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Nobody: 11:38am On Jul 17, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse: Let's start by noting that I'll be quoting scriptures, so reply scriptures, not me. Then: The book of Revelations is mostly symbolical so I may ignore that. The books of the Old Testament that foretell things (the whole books actually) are also symbolical so I may ignore those. The Words of Jesus Christ were full of parables — also symbolical, so I may ignore plenty. But the words preached by the disciples/apostles were mainly straightforward, so let's dwell on that. Let's paint a picture slowly. {Picture status: blank} • Acts 17:30-31 NIV (Speaker is Paul). “In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.” Paul is saying that God has set a day, when the world will be judged through Jesus. {Picture status: There's a day for judgment set by God. The world will be judged through Jesus} • Acts 10:42 NIV (Speaker is Paul). “He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.” According to Paul, Jesus asked him to tell the people that He (Jesus) has been appointed as the judge of the living and the dead. Which means the dead who had already died before Jesus came, and after Jesus came will also be judged by the same Jesus. {Picture status: There's a day for judgment set by God. The world will be judged through Jesus, both living and dead, which means those who are still alive on that day and those who had died before that day} • Romans 2:5-8, 16 NIV (Speaker is Paul). “But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.” Here we see that there's a 'Day of God's Wrath' — when His righteous judgement will be revealed. And every person will 'repay according to what they have done'. This happens to be the judgement that will decide who will get eternal life and those who will get wrath, 'according to what they have done'. And this day happens to be that same day when God judges everything through Jesus Christ. {Picture status: There's a day for judgment set by God. The world will be judged through Jesus, both living and dead, which means those who are still alive on that day and those who had died before that day. The sinful won't just get general punishment in hell, but will get punishment according to what they have done on Earth. The sinless guys qualify for eternal life.} • 1 Corinthians 4:4-5 NIV (Speaker is Paul). “My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.” Paul was admonishing the Corinthians not to start judging people at that time (because they don't know the complete story — they don't know what happened in secret and motives in the heart that drives every action). But that they should wait for Jesus to come (again) and reveal those secrets to that everyone will now see the 'full story'. Doesn't this verify that everyone will be judged individually, and their hidden secrets will be exposed for all to see? {Picture status: There's a day for judgment set by God. The world will be judged through Jesus, both living and dead, which means those who are still alive on that day and those who had died before that day. The sinful won't just get general punishment in hell, but will get punishment according to what they have done on Earth. The sinless guys qualify for eternal life. Also, the hidden motives from the heart and the things done in secret will be shown to the whole panel of people who are witnessing your judgement} • 1 Corinthians 6:1-3 NIV (Speaker is Paul). “If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!” Paul was angry. The Christians of the early Church were dragging each other to the court of the ungodly. He pointed out to them that they should practice by judging themselves, as a judge does in a court. Because they (the ones who stay blameless of course) will judge the world, and even Angels too, just as a judge does in a court. {Picture status: There's a day for judgment set by God. The world will be judged through Jesus, both living and dead, which means those who are still alive on that day and those who had died before that day. The sinful won't just get general punishment in hell, but will get punishment according to what they have done on Earth. The sinless guys qualify for eternal life. Also, the hidden motives from the heart and the things done in secret will be shown to the whole panel of people who are witnessing your judgement. That day will be a big day, because even Angels will be judged too! And Guess who's giving the judgement? Not everyone, but those who end up like Jesus — blameless in their spirit, soul and body. Remember Jesus says we should be like Him, that's why we accept the word, and call ourselves Christians — 'Christ-like'. We are to be a carbon-copy of Jesus. So if Jesus is judging the world on that day, and He has some carbon-copies, those carbon-copies will also judge with Him because they now think and act like Him} • 2 Timothy 4:1 NIV “In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge...” The speaker here is confirming that Christ Jesus will judge the living and the dead. But listen, Christ Jesus 'will' judge the living and the dead. This means that this thing 'will' happen, and has not yet happened. Even Adam who died, has not yet been judged, but Christ Jesus 'will' judge... On that day! {Picture status: There's a day for judgment set by God. The world will be judged through Jesus, both living and dead, which means those who are still alive on that day and those who had died before that day. The sinful won't just get general punishment in hell, but will get punishment according to what they have done on Earth. The sinless guys qualify for eternal life. Also, the hidden motives from the heart and the things done in secret will be shown to the whole panel of people who are witnessing your judgement. That day will be a big day, because even Angels will be judged too! And Guess who's giving the judgement? Not everyone, but those who end up like Jesus — blameless in their spirit, soul and body. Remember Jesus says we should be like Him, that's why we accept the word, and call ourselves Christians — 'Christ-like'. We are to be a carbon-copy of Jesus. So if Jesus is judging the world on that day, and He has some carbon-copies, those carbon-copies will also judge with Him because they now think and act like Him. All these have not yet happened and 'will' happen...} I may not have the chance to quote this many scriptures again so please read this twice before countering the scriptures one by one. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Nobody: 11:42am On Jul 17, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse: Yh, I attend a church where we open the Bible properly too. I know some of these symbolisms by revelation from the Holy Spirit I've even seen more symbolisms from the Old Testament Wild Beasts should mean countries The Woman should represent the Church of God Babylon should talk about the world, as in the lusts of this world or something... So I read revelations like it's symbolical, not every single thing tho |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:44am On Jul 17, 2023 |
preciousee17: When Jesus said: "Stop JUDGING that you may not be JUDGED" Matthew 7:1 Was he condemning those who become judges in a law court? If not please what does that mean?  |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Nobody: 11:50am On Jul 17, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse: I would rather, that you reply every scripture I quoted individually |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:58am On Jul 17, 2023 |
preciousee17: Now let's use the scriptures to see if you're correct or wrong! WILD BEAST according to the Bible is political system of the world {Revelations 13:4} the first human king who initiated it's worship is called Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. Ever since then the National Anthem he introduced was means to worship human rulers in disguise! Daniel 3:1-5 The WOMAN is God's heavenly loyal spirit sons as one body. BABYLON is the world empire of false religions. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:03pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
preciousee17: I know you will find it difficult to answer because there Jesus wasn't talking about a law court but "KILLING SINNERS" in the law those committing sin are to be stoned to death so Jesus is telling sinners not to kill sinners. The day of judgement is the day Jesus Christ will come with all the armies in heaven to KILL all unbelievers who aren't ready to submit to his wise counsel! Luke 19:27 So it's not a literal court where people are lined up on a queue to be judged remember that those that reject Jesus' teachings has been JUDGED already! John 3:17-18 |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Nobody: 12:05pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse: By the way let's look at our word from the original usage Greek: κρίνω Transliteration: krinō Pronunciation: kree'-no Definition: Properly to distinguish, that is decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try condemn punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in, question, sentence to, think. KJV Usage: judge (88x), determine (7x), condemn (5x), go to law (2x), call in question (2x), esteem (2x), misc (8x). Occurs: 131 In verses: 98 So you can see many different ways to understand the Greek usage of that word. Now I quoted that word where it appears to mean a final judicial judgment, I didn't quote other ones that may have other definitions. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Nobody: 12:07pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse: This isn't even our argument (even if I don't also agree on this). |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Nobody: 12:10pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse: I'm laughing at the things in bold. Is God that weak? Coming with armies of angels to kill normal humans (that He created... That are weak as ever) Coming with armies of angels when He only needs to say a word, and the whole earth can be wiped. You've not yet replied all those scriptures individually... |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:19pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
preciousee17: For the Son of man is to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will repay each one according to his behavior. Matthew 16:27 Compare to Moreover, bring these enemies of mine here who did not want me to become king over them and execute them in front of me.’” Luke 19:27 |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Emusan(m): 2:30pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
SangoOlukosoOba: That's not what the Psalmist says in that verse! Sinful from birth and conceived from sin means our nature is already prone to evil and will end in death. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Great2017: 5:28pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:Was the baby ever an unbeliever? |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Kobojunkie: 5:30pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Great2017:Are babies born believing in God?  |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Great2017: 5:33pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:How does believing in God start? We know that Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Kobojunkie: 5:38pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Great2017:1. It comes by way of a conscious choice made to either believe there is a God or not. 2. Belief in God and hence Faith --- continuous submission and obedience to God's teachings and commandments --- does not come by hearing of the Word but rather by choice made either in obedience of God's command. Two very good examples of this are Abel and Abraham. Both choose to believe in God and to obey even when those around them chose not to. By the way, Paul, the one you quoted there explained in Romans 10 and Galatians 1 that His knowledge of Jesus Christ did not come from hearing from any man but direct from God Himself. So, you probably don't want to keep going around quoting that verse without having a clear understanding of the message intended by the writer. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Great2017: 5:47pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:If you do not hear first, how do you make a conscious effort to obey? Abraham heard first before he obeyed. Cain and Abel equally heard about their creator first before offering sacrifice to Him. Are you then saying they were born with the knowledge of offering sacrifice to God? You can hear from man or God |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Kobojunkie: 5:52pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Great2017:1. Paul's statement in Romans 2 had to do with being taught by other humans hence the counter statement in verse 14. Paul, however, made it clear that He was not taught by other humans but by God Himself so his statement in Romans 2 did not even apply to Him. Read what Paul said in Romans 10 and Galatians 1 for more info. The story is that no man taught Abel of God, and not even Abraham. So what Paul said of hearing having to do with being taught to obey God's Law does not apply to either men as well. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Great2017: 5:54pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:Were they born with the knowledge of God? Were you also born with the knowledge of your biological father? A day old baby is not an unbeliever as you painted him or her to be. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Kobojunkie: 6:04pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Great2017:Nobody is born with the knowledge of God but we are caused to consider Him through experiences we have in life and make a decision for or against Him then. 2. Nobody is born into this world connected to God from birth by default; God Himself made sure of that in Genesis 3 vs 16 when He cursed the process of childbearing. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Great2017: 6:22pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:So, a day old baby is not an unbeliever. He or she has to hear first before deciding whether to believe or not. Unfortunately, this cannot be determined for a day old baby. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Kobojunkie: 6:29pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Great2017:A baby is born into an unbelieving world to choose whether or not to believe. And when one chooses to pursue God, one is either learns to obey God through the teaching of His disciples or one is taught by God Himself. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Great2017: 6:45pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Kobojunkie:I am not interested in all you have muddled up there. My concern is you cannot call a day old baby an unbeliever |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by FriendsAndFans(m): 6:46pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: So were does the teaching comes from? |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Kobojunkie: 6:47pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Great2017:You are not making any sense. I didn't call a baby anything. God Himself had all men removed from His presence from birth from Genesis 3 vs 16 meaning all men are born unrighteous. If you do not believe what is written, that is you. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Kobojunkie: 6:50pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
FriendsAndFans:I don't follow. |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by FriendsAndFans(m): 6:53pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: This is what you told me about while ago. Kobojunkie: |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Kobojunkie: 6:54pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
FriendsAndFans:And? |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by FriendsAndFans(m): 6:57pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Kobojunkie: Do you believe those who teach the word of God |
| Re: Where Would A New Born Baby Go To After Death Heaven/hell Or Where Else? by Kobojunkie: 7:01pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
FriendsAndFans:Do they teach the word of God or their special blend which negates the Truth of God, what Jesus Christ referred to as lies-- doctrines and traditions of men -- in Matthew 15 vs 1 - 10 & Mark 7 vs 1 - 13 ? 1 Like |
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