TenQ:

Of course, you won't see the complexity and the engineering wisdom to carry such a weight of carcass over the lip of the flower pot.

This is the reason I say that many of you educated atheists would fail to succeed in this simple but intellectually challenging task.

LoLz! Explain how carrying a weight without machines is "engineering wisdom".

KnownUnknown:
I saw this documentary and I thought to myself, the Almighty Ant made the ant in his own image and made them the largest civilization on earth.
Such tiny creatures but so much organization, wisdom, and perseverance!! Many adult educated polytheists will find this simple task impossible!!

My Ant is amazing and it blows away my little sense.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rERHPiYxc64&pp=ygUEQW50cw%3D%3D

The Great Ant sacrificed her only begotten drone to save all of antkind. Only the Holy Ant Spirit can make you understand.

Dtruthspeaker:


As I told you the destination is God The Creator of all the things we have seen and experienced in this world.

So, you are out of line when you start going beyond God enquiring into things we have never seen nor known.

So you are over reaching and going beyond the area and scope of argument.

So God is the Answer and that is where every valid argument stops.

And as I told you before, this "god is the destination" statement is pretty useless and unrelated to what I'm talking about.

LordReed:


The Great Ant sacrificed her only begotten drone to save all of antkind. Only the Holy Ant Spirit can make you understand.

Lwkmd 😂😂

Wilgrea7:


And as I told you before, this "god is the destination" statement is pretty useless and unrelated to what I'm talking about.

Then if you say this then you have no right to be enquiring about God and uncaused first causes and other connected purposes, saying ."...But this says nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing about a god.

God is not an answer to the question of complexity..."

So, see, you are still out of line either way.

LordReed:


LoLz! Explain how carrying a weight without machines is "engineering wisdom".

Let me oblige you.


1. The ants found a dead wall gecko the size of each ant relative to the wall gecko is at least 1:1000
2. The Ants had their destination as INSIDE the flowerpot
3. Lifting the Gecko up the wall of the flower pot was a tall order which required a lot of coordination, cooperation, dedication and strength.
4. Unfortunately, the pot had a rim that curved out and down through which they need to navigate UPSIDE-DOWN with the heavy load (which would have been an impossibility)
5. They figured out somehow under the rim to carry ONLY the lighter tail first under the flower pot rim to the top.
6. When those assigned to the task succeeded, the other Ants let go of the main body of the Gecko
7. The moment of truth came as the main gecko body swung Freely by its tail
8. The ants below the rim climbed up the rim to assist their fellow ants holding the tail to pull up the gecko carcass

For creatures who cannot speak to organise each other, who have a short life span and did not therefore go to school. This is a masterpiece of wisdom in operation.

Just imagine that the ants are human being and without tools required to do exactly the same thing: you will by no means applaud these ants and the One who designed and programmed them so!

LordReed:


The Great Ant sacrificed her only begotten drone to save all of antkind. Only the Holy Ant Spirit can make you understand.

It doesn't dawn on you that their fertility rate is impossibly large that even that which you despise has kept them alive till today.

TenQ:

Let me oblige you.


1. The ants found a dead wall gecko the size of each ant relative to the wall gecko is at least 1:1000
2. The Ants had their destination as INSIDE the flowerpot
3. Lifting the Gecko up the wall of the flower pot was a tall order which required a lot of coordination, cooperation, dedication and strength.
4. Unfortunately, the pot had a rim that curved out and down through which they need to navigate UPSIDE-DOWN with the heavy load (which would have been an impossibility)
5. They figured out somehow under the rim to carry ONLY the lighter tail first under the flower pot rim to the top.
6. When those assigned to the task succeeded, the other Ants let go of the main body of the Gecko
7. The moment of truth came as the main gecko body swung Freely by its tail
8. The ants below the rim climbed up the rim to assist their fellow ants holding the tail to pull up the gecko carcass

For creatures who cannot speak to organise each other, who have a short life span and did not therefore go to school. This is a masterpiece of wisdom in operation.

Just imagine that the ants are human being and without tools required to do exactly the same thing: you will by no means applaud these ants and the One who designed and programmed them so!

LoLz. So even though engineering is about building machines or constructs it's still engineering not to use machines or contruct any thing. Sometimes the way you stretch language just to create a narrative is just too amusing.

KnownUnknown:
I saw this documentary and I thought to myself, the Almighty Ant made the ant in his own image and made them the largest civilization on earth.
Such tiny creatures but so much organization, wisdom, and perseverance!! Many adult educated polytheists will find this simple task impossible!!

My Ant is amazing and it blows away my little sense.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rERHPiYxc64&pp=ygUEQW50cw%3D%3D

That's exactly how you think bro: that nature made everything that is natural!
LOL!

Forget theology now and just focus on this Ants. How did they acquire such a wisdom that many humans will fail in achieving.

How did the Ants execute carrying a humongously mightyly big carcass upsidedown over the lip of the flower pot.



Could their be a better way of doing this task?

budaatum:


The below shows how difficult. Nay. Outright impossible it is for you to see how lame your reasoning is. Instead of studying the evolution of the ant to see how it progressed to what you see, you fill the gap with some diviner you don't see imposing a program you see not.

Are you saying that evolution gave the Ant the knowledge of Engineering and wisdom of operation.

Their lifespan is in weeks at best.
They can't talk


How did evolution give them knowledge?

TenQ:

It doesn't dawn on you that their fertility rate is impossibly large that even that which you despise has kept them alive till today.

How is their fertility rate "impossibly" large when it is happening day in day out?

What is it that I despise that has kept them alive?

Dtruthspeaker:


See how they are all complaining because they can never ever do it.

They don't even grapes the complexity of the engineering feat these Ants just performed.

If humans can fail this exam, I am amazed that ordinary Ants can succeed in it.

Unfortunately for the brute mule, they are willing to say everything as long as it doesn't give glory to God the Chief Designer and Maker.

So many wrong statements in here.. I'll do my best to point them out

TenQ:

Of course if it looks and functions like the computer (branded or not) it would generate ALL forms of speculations other than "it probably evolved from the Martian elements over billions of years"!

Common sense tells us that the origin must be extraterrestrial to Mars.

Wrong... Common sense does not denote truth. For the people seeing the sun rise in the east and set in the west, common sense would tell them that the sun revolved around the earth. We know this is not the case.

And again, you are not answering the question of complexity. You're just pushing it to the location of wherever the "extraterrestrial" thing is.

Why?
To a large extent, we know the properties and limitations of the physical space including planets, elements and compound.
We know that the ever-present Entropy NEVER generates INTELLIGENCE but chaos?

Again... Wrong. Intelligence is not the opposite of chaos. Order is. Do we see order from entropy?
sometimes.

The entropy of the universe has been increasing from the beginning of time. Yet stars and galaxies formed. Even planets can sometimes form from the death of stars

Its the more reason why we attribute ALL the seven wonders of the world not to natural selection but to Intelligent humans building them EVEN when for many, we still can't fathom how the "primitive humans" acquired the technology for such.

No one is trying to argue that complex structures necessarily come into existence from nothing, or from mere randomness.

And it is perfectly possible for a complex something to come from another complex something. But you will not be answering the question of complexity either ways.

The second part of the discuss is this:
What if the Computer-like devices on Mars acquired consciousness and decided that they evolved over billions of years from the natural elements of Mars (even if they were branded Hp or Dell)? Would you think this was a rational conclusion?

1. Consciousness is still largely a mystery to us. Both its origins as well as it's nature.

2. The question of where the computers came from would be determined by several things.

And if we're going by the dell and hp analogy, how sure are you that the computers would reach the conclusions that they "evolved from the natural elements of mars"?... Especially if the components of their structure were clearly absent in the planet

You seem to be tossing around a lot of what ifs. Even if the computers had mars-like materials, the question of how they came to be is something they'd need to answer with some sort of evidence.. not hypothetical speculations.

TenQ:
...
Unfortunately for the brute mule, they are willing to say everything as long as it doesn't give glory to God the Chief Designer and Maker.

Rejected children and cast offs can never praise The One Who threw them out and cuts them off from things.

LordReed:


How is their fertility rate "impossibly" large when it is happening day in day out?

What is it that I despise that has kept them alive?

Have they gone out of extinction?

Are they on danger list?

Were they meant to dominate the earth?

If the answer os No!, how is it your problem is a programmer wrote a computer code that self destructs after it has perfomed it's primary function.


Are you aware that in computer programming, we write some programs that self destructs after it has executed it's task?

Is this stupidity or wisdom in programming ?

Wilgrea7:

Wrong... Common sense does not denote truth. For the people seeing the sun rise in the east and set in the west, common sense would tell them that the sun revolved around the earth. We know this is not the case.

What's east? Whats west?
Something you were brainwashed to say.

Therefore what do we see, the sun coming up from one side of the world and dissapearing down another side of the world. That is Truth.

TenQ:

That's exactly how you think bro: that nature made everything that is natural!
LOL!

Forget theology now and just focus on this Ants. How did they acquire such a wisdom that many humans will fail in achieving.

How did the Ants execute carrying a humongously mightyly big carcass upsidedown over the lip of the flower pot.



Could their be a better way of doing this task?

The Almighty Ant communicates with them from the 5th dimension using the antennas on their heads.

There is no better way than the mysterious way of Ant.

TenQ:

Have they gone out of extinction?

Are they on danger list?

Were they meant to dominate the earth?

If the answer os No!, how is it your problem is a programmer wrote a computer code that self destructs after it has perfomed it's primary function.


Are you aware that in computer programming, we write some programs that self destructs after it has executed it's task?

Is this stupidity or wisdom in programming ?

How did you know all these?

Dtruthspeaker:


What's east? Whats west?
Something you were brainwashed to say.

Therefore what do we see, the sun coming up from one side of the world and dissapearing down another side of the world. That is Truth.

I have no desure to debate geography with you.. if using words like "brainwashed" will make you feel better, then go for it.

LordReed:


LoLz. So even though engineering is about building machines or constructs it's still engineering not to use machines or contruct any thing. Sometimes the way you stretch language just to create a narrative is just too amusing.

It didn't dawn on you that the Ants simply are using the carcass as their only machine! ?

#They accounted for the center of gravity of the carcass.
#They turned the carcass into a lever.
#At a point they made the carcass into a compound pendulum.
#They computed the impulse and how many Ants would be required to hold the carcass when it swings

You see why I shake my head at you?

Workch:
How did you know all these?

I went to school to learn it.


You don't know that in computer programming, we write some programs that self destructs after it has executed it's task?

Is this stupidity or wisdom in programming ?

TenQ:

Are you saying that evolution gave the Ant the knowledge of Engineering and wisdom of operation.

Their lifespan is in weeks at best.
They can't talk

How did evolution give them knowledge?

Evolution does not give anything. Species learn to adapt to their ever changing environment and evolve, or they die.

I would suggest you learn about evolution. You might detect the evolution from Yahweh God to Jesus God to Paul's God even. It's a fascinating lesson to understand, and would make you appreciate Christ and Christianity even more.

The below is a clear example of ideological evolution.

TenQ:

I went to school to learn it.


You don't know that in computer programming, we write some programs that self destructs after it has executed it's task?

Is this stupidity or wisdom in programming ?

So you learnt in school that ants were programmed by a programmer?.. What's the name of your school?

Wilgrea7:


I have no desure to debate geography with you.. if using words like "brainwashed" will make you feel better, then go for it.

Sorry. I just wanted you people to have a shot. of your daggers. But i am not arguing about geography and what people say, i am just pointing out that Truth is indisputably what everyone sees and can see/experience.

And there is no valid argument against Truth

TenQ:

Have they gone out of extinction?

Are they on danger list?

Were they meant to dominate the earth?

If the answer os No!, how is it your problem is a programmer wrote a computer code that self destructs after it has perfomed it's primary function.


Are you aware that in computer programming, we write some programs that self destructs after it has executed it's task?

Is this stupidity or wisdom in programming ?

You didn't answer either question. What makes their fertility rate impossible and what is it that I despise that has been keeping the ants alive?

TenQ:

It didn't dawn on you that the Ants simply are using the carcass as their only machine! ?

#They accounted for the center of gravity of the carcass.
#They turned the carcass into a lever.
#At a point they made the carcass into a compound pendulum.
#They computed the impulse and how many Ants would be required to hold the carcass when it swings

You see why I shake my head at you?

So if I use my fingers to dig the ground it is also engineering wisdom?

Wilgrea7:
So many wrong statements in here.. I'll do my best to point them out



Wrong... Common sense does not denote truth. For the people seeing the sun rise in the east and set in the west, common sense would tell them that the sun revolved around the earth. We know this is not the case.

And again, you are not answering the question of complexity. You're just pushing it to the location of wherever the "extraterrestrial" thing is.



Again... Wrong. Intelligence is not the opposite of chaos. Order is. Do we see order from entropy?
sometimes.

The entropy of the universe has been increasing from the beginning of time. Yet stars and galaxies formed. Even planets can sometimes form from the death of stars



No one is trying to argue that complex structures necessarily come into existence from nothing, or from mere randomness.

And it is perfectly possible for a complex something to come from another complex something. But you will not be answering the question of complexity either ways.



1. Consciousness is still largely a mystery to us. Both its origins as well as it's nature.

2. The question of where the computers came from would be determined by several things.

And if we're going by the dell and hp analogy, how sure are you that the computers would reach the conclusions that they "evolved from the natural elements of mars"?... Especially if the components of their structure were clearly absent in the planet

You seem to be tossing around a lot of what ifs. Even if the computers had mars-like materials, the question of how they came to be is something they'd need to answer with some sort of evidence.. not hypothetical speculations.

You should first have answered my question as Intelligently as you could.

1. If you find a computer-like object on Mars, would you attribute it's existence to self evolution from Mars or extraterrestrial to Mars?
2. Do we sometimes see order in entropy, Yes! Why? Entropy is not yet maximum. Therefore every order will in future vanish: this is the law of entropy simplified. Is it possible for entropy to decrease by itself?
NO!
3. I asked you a question about common sense not a question about truth. The Truth imply that you are certain of the origin of the computer-like object on Mars. If the name Hp or Dell was written on the computer-like device you can say with a fair amount of certainty that it was manufactured on planet earth by Hewlett Packard or Dell.
Again, you found some computer-like devices on Mars, what would your common sense tell you about it's origin?
4. I agree that Consciousness is still largely a mystery to us BUT as Christians will attribute it to Extraterrestrial Source, you atheists attribute it to a self evolving property of matter.
5. If the Hp and Dell computer-like devices on Mars conclude that they self evolved over billions of years in Mars: do you think their response is a rational conclusion?

KnownUnknown:


The Almighty Ant communicates with them from the 5th dimension using the antennas on their heads.

There is no better way than the mysterious way of Ant.

At least you are coming closer: they have an influence that is extraterrestrial to them.
LOL!

Dtruthspeaker:


Rejected children and cast offs can never praise The One Who threw them out and cuts them off from things.

It is actually rebellion : anything else BUT God is good enough for them just like their master satan

budaatum:


Evolution does not give anything. Species learn to adapt to their ever changing environment and evolve, or they die.

I would suggest you learn about evolution. You might detect the evolution from Yahweh God to Jesus God to Paul's God even. It's a fascinating lesson to understand, and would make you appreciate Christ and Christianity even more.

The below is a clear example of ideological evolution.

Please how has this got to do with evolution?

1. The ants found a dead wall gecko the size of each ant relative to the wall gecko is at least 1:1000
2. The Ants had their destination as INSIDE the flowerpot
3. Lifting the Gecko up the wall of the flower pot was a tall order which required a lot of coordination, cooperation, dedication and strength.
4. Unfortunately, the pot had a rim that curved out and down through which they need to navigate UPSIDE-DOWN with the heavy load (which would have been an impossibility)
5. They figured out somehow under the rim to carry ONLY the lighter tail first under the flower pot rim to the top.
6. When those assigned to the task succeeded, the other Ants let go of the main body of the Gecko
7. The moment of truth came as the main gecko body swung Freely by its tail
8. The ants below the rim climbed up the rim to assist their fellow ants holding the tail to pull up the gecko carcass

For creatures who cannot speak to organise each other, who have a short life span and did not therefore go to school. This is a masterpiece of wisdom in operation.

Workch:
So you learnt in school that ants were programmed by a programmer?.. What's the name of your school?

Ants dummy!

We were talking computer programming


Are you aware that in computer programming, we write some programs that self destructs after it has executed it's task?
Is this stupidity or wisdom in programming ?

LordReed:


So if I use my fingers to dig the ground it is also engineering wisdom?

Show me the engineering principles you have used. QED!