LordReed:


I don't consider them delusional since they aren't believing in the illusion, you are delusional when you believe an illusion is real.

I am not defending their position so much as showing that some of your statements are factually incorrect and incongruent with reality.

You just said:

LordReed:

The statements about my position as an Ignostic are correct but still doesn't give credence to your argument against atheism. The atheist is not taking a position based on sufficient knowledge.

If you truly hold on to Ignostism, then Atheists are in delusion.

Did you not just ascribed to the statement
"3. That Modern Atheists do NOT Disbelieve in any Deity nor even Lack a belief in Deities but only have an illusion that they do."


Would you now wish to modify both the definition of Atheism and Ignostism as it applies to you LordReed!?

TenQ:


You just said:


If you truly hold on to Ignostism, then Atheists are in delusion.

Did you not just ascribed to the statement
"3. That Modern Atheists do NOT Disbelieve in any Deity nor even Lack a belief in Deities but only have an illusion that they do."


Would you now wish to modify both the definition of Atheism and Ignostism as it applies to you LordReed!?

Define delusion.

LordReed:


Define delusion.

Falling to an illusion

TenQ:

Falling to an illusion

What does that mean?

LordReed:


What does that mean?

Falling under an illusion!

TenQ:

Falling under an illusion!

So how are atheists falling under an illusion if they do not believe in the illusion of a god?

LordReed:


So how are atheists falling under an illusion if they do not believe in the illusion of a god?

Can you see how confused you've become.

We started with the definition of Atheism : later you discribe yourself not as an Atheist but as Ignostic.

One of your defining claims is that

"3. That Modern Atheists do NOT Disbelieve in any Deity nor even Lack a belief in Deities but only have an illusion that they do."


These are your claims not mine.







Please, e don do me for this back and forth.
Have a nice day ahead!

TenQ:

Falling to an illusion

Apart from religion is there any other thing you have sufficient knowledge of, and instead of you to know it, you still went back to believe it?
Why do you need to believe?

You only believe what you lack knowledge on.
Once you have sufficient knowledge on it, you know it, and you don’t even have the ability to “believe” it again.

The opposite of Doxa is Episteme.

TenQ:

Can you see how confused you've become.

We started with the definition of Atheism : later you discribe yourself not as an Atheist but as Ignostic.

One of your defining claims is that

"3. That Modern Atheists do NOT Disbelieve in any Deity nor even Lack a belief in Deities but only have an illusion that they do."


These are your claims not mine.







Please, e don do me for this back and forth.
Have a nice day ahead!

The illusion is the word god. The atheist is attempting to lack faith in something that cannot even be properly defined. That is not the same as falling for an illusion.

Wilgrea7:


This seems like an appeal to complexity, which has already been dealt with in my most recent thread. But for the sake of this thread, I'll go over it again, and explain a bit more.

Complexity exists. The concept of a thing being "alive" in itself is already complex, talk less of the said thing being involved in some sort of order.

Are what the ants doing impressive? Absolutely. It's almost impossible not to notice the incredible complexity and in some cases, order in just about everything around us. But this says nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing about a god.

God is not an answer to the question of complexity. You're only pushing the question forward, and failing to answer it by alluding to some uncaused first cause as the reason for complexity.. which still doesn't answer the question.

At the end of the day, you arrive at the very answer you dread, which is "it's just the way it is", or "we don't know". In either case, introducing a god into the equation is meaningless.

Without telling us why the complexity and order have nothing to do with a God, this is just a useless assertion lacking any bit of intelligence.

LordReed:


The illusion is the word god. The atheist is attempting to lack faith in something that cannot even be properly defined. That is not the same as falling for an illusion.

As long as the definition of Atheism or Ignostism cannot be said without God, I rest my case!

TenQ:

As long as the definition of Atheism or Ignostism cannot be said without God, I rest my case!

What are theos?

You believe what you lack knowledge on.

TenQ:

Humble yourself and think: don't be misled by atheist professors of science who cannot even define who a woman is

Lol clown!

TenQ:

Like I said:
I wasn't defining atheism : atheists can't even define themselves successfully!

The earlier post was a pun.

You said:
"Atheists are simply people who lack the belief in a god. That's about it."

This definition is nonsensical at best.
To lack a belief is only possible if
1. The concept of "Deity" is far above your intellectual capacity to understand /comprehend
Examples
A Baby can truly be said to lack a belief.

Once a person has an intellectual capacity to hold a opinion, such CANNOT lack a belief on the subject
OR
An Animal CANNOT have a belief on the subject of a Deity.
2. You are unconscious.
3. You are inanimate or a vegetable


Holding any kind of Belief is a function of acting on available information. This information could be right or wrong but it forms the basis for a position to be taken on the basis of probability or likelihood of correctness.

Do you have ANY good reason for your LACK of Belief in a Deity?

Lacking belief in something means you don't believe the thing exists. There could be many reasons for this. In the case of a god, my lack of belief comes from lack of evidence.

Not lack of evidence for a cause, but lack of evidence for what is commonly described as a god. To me, a cause is not necessarily the same as a god. I believe I've explained this before.

Tenq sounded familiar.

https://www.nairaland.com/4116949/lack-belief-god-matt-slick#61421478

budaatum:
Tenq sounded familiar.

https://www.nairaland.com/4116949/lack-belief-god-matt-slick#61421478

Yes!
Very similar thought

Wilgrea7:


Lacking belief in something means you don't believe the thing exists. There could be many reasons for this. In the case of a god, my lack of belief comes from lack of evidence.

Not lack of evidence for a cause, but lack of evidence for what is commonly described as a god. To me, a cause is not necessarily the same as a god. I believe I've explained this before.

No sir.
Lacking a Belief is actually holding no positive or negative opinion about a subject usually because of total lack of knowledge or awareness about the subject.

Do you believe I ate Pounded Yam this afternoon?
This is a question you can't hold any kind of Belief in for or against. Therefore, you lack a belief to whether I ate or did not eat Pounded yam. You have zero information to take any position.

For the concept of God, you atheists have taken a position based on insufficient convincing evidence to reject the idea or possibility of God existing. You don't lack a belief, you have a negative belief: period

TenQ:

LOL!
It's just a claim you've made : and it is very empty!

Do you have belief in Brahma?

I’ll assume you don’t because you are a christian. Would it be accurate if I call you an atheist?

NairaLTQ:

For the concept of God, you atheists have taken a position based on insufficient convincing evidence to reject the idea or possibility of God existing. You don't lack a belief, you have a negative belief: period

What you can not accept is that there is sufficient information and knowledge out there that shows that all the gods that have ever been have all been created by us humans. And you also can not imagine that some may have bothered to ask and knock and seek with all their hearts and souls and minds so that they actually know instead of believe.

I do not believe that gods do not exist. I know that gods do not exist and never have. I love the Book die though. I'm glad it does exist.

budaatum:

I do not believe that gods do not exist. I know that gods do not exist and never have.

It’s virtually a privilege to know gods don’t exist. It’s akin to how I view “philosophers”. All of them that I’m aware of either came from wealth or they had wealthy patrons. Even Buddha, despite his poverty and “suffering”, was a prince.
To know gods don’t exist, you have to have a full stomach, time, resources, curiosity, intellect, and must be fortunate enough to be in an environment where knowledge is at your fingertips. After all that, you have to be bold enough to say it especially if you’ve been subjected to religious indoctrination like most people.

Humans barely understand parts of the universe but some want to claim they know or believe that the whole of the universe is because of their gods. It’s not their fault though. If the world is filled with bullshit, you can’t criticize the people drowning in it.

KnownUnknown:
It’s virtually a privilege to know gods don’t exist. It’s akin to how I view “philosophers”. All of them that I’m aware of either came from wealth or they had wealthy patrons. Even Buddha, despite his poverty and “suffering”, was a prince.
To know gods don’t exist, you have to have a full stomach, time, resources, curiosity, intellect, and must be fortunate enough to be in an environment where knowledge is at your fingertips. After all that, you have to be bold enough to say it especially if you’ve been subjected to religious indoctrination like most people.

It is indeed a privilege to be in position to Know the Unknown especially if one was never subjected to religious indoctrination.

KnownUnknown:
Humans barely understand parts of the universe but some want to claim they know or believe that the whole of the universe is because of their gods. It’s not their fault though. If the world is filled with bullshit, you can’t criticize the people drowning in it.

Not everyone is privileged, so those who are would understand how fortunate they are and therefore temper their hubris. Thankfully, Christ taught me compassion when he said "buda, forgive them, for they know not what they don't know".

To wit, buda arrogantly complies.

KnownUnknown:


Do you have belief in Brahma?

I’ll assume you don’t because you are a christian. Would it be accurate if I call you an atheist?

I don't believe in Brahma but I believe that the Spirit called Brahma exist.
Do I believe in transgenderism?
No!
But I believe it exist even in Nigeria.

Atheistsm is a negative belief of rejecting through knowledge the concept, possibility or reality of Deities. This is why a baby CANNOT be an Atheist: he doesn't even understand the concept of God to either accept or reject it.

budaatum:


What you can not accept is that there is sufficient information and knowledge out there that shows that all the gods that have ever been have all been created by us humans. And you also can not imagine that some may have bothered to ask and knock and seek with all their hearts and souls and minds so that they actually know instead of believe.

I do not believe that gods do not exist. I know that gods do not exist and never have. I love the Book die though. I'm glad it does exist.

You know!?
Just as you know that 4+6=10! ?

A 2D Being living in a 2D space swears that he KNOWS that VOLUME of objects doesn’t exist.

NairaLTQ:

I don't believe in Brahma but I believe that the Spirit called Brahma exist.

I’m sorry but this statement doesn’t make sense. What is a spirit?

NairaLTQ:

Do I believe in transgenderism?
No!
But I believe it exist even in Nigeria.

Transgenderism does not require belief because it’s not about “faith”. It is something that occurs in nature so belief is not required.

NairaLTQ:

Atheistsm is a negative belief of rejecting through knowledge the concept, possibility or reality of Deities.

I don’t know what this statement is meant to convey.

NairaLTQ:

This is why a baby CANNOT be an Atheist: he doesn't even understand the concept of God to either accept or reject it.

No arguments from me here. I always find it funny when some atheists say “we are all born atheist”.

NairaLTQ:

You know!?
Just as you know that 4+6=10! ?

A 2D Being living in a 2D space swears that he KNOWS that VOLUME of objects doesn’t exist.

Except there is no being living in 2D space……..
I’ve seen this argument before. The next step is to say that your god/spirit lives in 4D space. Then someone else says the Leprechaun lives in 6D space etc

KnownUnknown:


Except there is no being living in 2D space……..
I’ve seen this argument before. The next step is to say that your god/spirit lives in 4D space. Then someone else says the Leprechaun lives in 6D space etc

Sorry!

All I am saying is that you have no way of knowing.
Think about it: If there is any Creator at all, he would not be made up of matter. If the Creator is not made up of matter, how on earth can you claim you know?

KnownUnknown:


I’m sorry but this statement doesn’t make sense. What is a spirit?



Transgenderism does not require belief because it’s not about “faith”. It is something that occurs in nature so belief is not required.



I don’t know what this statement is meant to convey.



No arguments from me here. I always find it funny when some atheists say “we are all born atheist”.

A spirit is a no material being!
Believing in something means you ascribe and subscribe to it.

How many transgenders have you met in Nigeria? I don't know of Any. Thus it's is in a preview of BELIEF to take any stand wrt it in Nigeria.

No human being is born as an Atheist.

budaatum:


What you can not accept is that there is sufficient information and knowledge out there that shows that all the gods that have ever been have all been created by us humans. And you also can not imagine that some may have bothered to ask and knock and seek with all their hearts and souls and minds so that they actually know instead of believe.

I do not believe that gods do not exist. I know that gods do not exist and never have. I love the Book die though. I'm glad it does exist.

Whatever is truly know must have convincing proof: isn't it?

NairaLTQ:

A spirit is a no material being!.

What is a no material being?
Do you have examples of other no material beings?

NairaLTQ:

Sorry!

All I am saying is that you have no way of knowing.

I have no way of knowing what?

NairaLTQ:

Think about it: If there is any Creator at all, he would not be made up of matter. If the Creator is not made up of matter, how on earth can you claim you know?

The “creator” can be made of anything you please because it’s your idea.

KnownUnknown:

The “creator” can be made of anything you please because it’s your idea.

So phones, cars, mannequins, oil rigs are your creators, right?

And you think you are sane.

Dtruthspeaker:


So phones, cars, mannequins, oil rigs are your creators, right?

And you think you are sane.

Whatever you say, sunshine.