sonmvayina:


If you see me interpreting your grand father's religion to somebody else and see your brother doing the same, who do you think will be nearer to the true interpretation?

My brother knows nothing about my grandfather's religion.
On the other hand a complete stranger who isn't from my town might have carried out study on my grandfather's religion and would be in a better position to teach his grandchildren.
The modern Jews have zero advantage in knowing what occured 100s of years ago in their land.
Just like everyone of us, they need to read to learn 5hesr facts. Speaking with a Jew is of no importance.

sonmvayina:

If you see me interpreting your grand father's religion to somebody else and see your brother doing the same, who do you think will be nearer to the true interpretation?

What you should take seriously is the language not the religion!
A white man who studies ifá oracle will know much better than a Yorùbá man who has not been having anything to do with ifá. But when the whiteman has issues in the language used to explain ifá oracle that's when the Yorùbá man could help not in the study of ifá!

tctrills:

You are wrong again.
Making friends with a Jew is completely unnecessary.
The bible does not belong to them. It's an open source for everyone.
The bible was written by the ancestors of the present Jews. This does not give the present Jews any more insight than anyone.
It's just like asking the descendants of slavery what it felt like to walk on a Cotton field in Georgia.
Just because your ancestors had an experience don't not give you greater understanding.
My grandfather was a traditional worshipper yet I know next to nothing about his religion.

Old Testament.
And that's precisely why The New Testament isn't recognized in Judaism.

sonmvayina:


The Tanakh belongs to the Jews.

Try making friends with one..


He will open your eyes...

Hey man,
Love that you mentioned this.

I'd assume you are conversant with Judaism to know that the teachings in the Christian BIble has been doctored so much so that its true meaning has been completely lost.

The OP mentioned the Book of Isaiah (Yeshayahu), Chapter 9:6.
I'd like to read from the Jewish Bible (The Tanakh).
By the way, Verse 6 is actually Verse 5 in the Book of Nevi'im (Prophets) in The Tanakh.

In Hebrew:
הכִּי־יֶ֣לֶד יֻלַּד־לָ֗נוּ בֵּן נִתַּן־לָ֔נוּ וַתְּהִ֥י הַמִּשְׂרָ֖ה עַל־שִׁכְמ֑וֹ וַיִּקְרָ֨א שְׁמ֜וֹ פֶּ֠לֶא יוֹעֵץ֙ אֵ֣ל גִּבּ֔וֹר אֲבִי־עַ֖ד שַׂר־שָׁלֽוֹם

In English:
For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."

So, This is about HaShem calling the Child, "The prince of peace".

Commentary:
For a child has been born to us: Although Ahaz is wicked, his son who was born to him many years ago [nine years prior to his assuming the throne] to be our king in his stead, shall be a righteous man, and the authority of the Holy One, blessed be He, and His yoke shall be on his shoulder, for he shall engage in the Torah and observe the commandments, and he shall bend his shoulder to bear the burden of the Holy One, blessed be He.

and… called his name: The Holy One, blessed be He, Who gives wondrous counsel, is a mighty G-d and an everlasting Father, called Hezekiah’s name, “the prince of peace,” since peace and truth will be in his days.

Jesus Isn't G-d,
Jesus prayed and lived his whole life a Jew.
He merely brought a new perspective to Judaism, which was widely rejected by the Pharisees.

Stellar360:


Old Testament.
And that's precisely why The New Testament isn't recognized in Judaism.

Honestly, I don't understand your point here. Could you throw more light, it's been ages since I posted this.

tctrills:

Honestly, I don't understand your point here. Could you throw more light, it's been ages since I posted this.

The New Testament, Spearheaded By Paul (Saul), Is mostly known to have authored a large number new testament Books, isn't recognized in Judaism.

The Jewish Bible (Tanakh) contain books that conveys The Message of HaShem.
Jesus isn't G-d.
He Lived as a Jew and obeyed the Jewish Laws.
Extrapolating wrongly translated scriptures that are supposed to be from the Tanakh, to infer the divinity of Jesus is utterly Absurd.

Stellar360:


The New Testament, Spearheaded By Paul (Saul), Is mostly known to have authored a large number new testament Books, isn't recognized in Judaism.

The Jewish Bible (Tanakh) contain books that conveys The Message of HaShem.
Jesus isn't G-d.
He Lived as a Jew and obeyed the Jewish Laws.
Extrapolating wrongly translated scriptures that are supposed to be from the Tanakh, to infer the divinity of Jesus is utterly Absurd.

Yes, everyone knows Judaism does not recognize the new testament. So if you practice Judaism, I perfectly understand why the divinity of Jesus Christ seems absurd to you.
We christians believe that Judaism is off the mark. In fact, every religion believes that the other is in error.

tctrills:


Yes, everyone knows Judaism does not recognize the new testament. So if you practice Judaism, I perfectly understand why the divinity of Jesus Christ seems absurd to you.
We christians believe that Judaism is off the mark. In fact, every religion believes that the other is in error.

This is preposterous.
Christianity is literally influenced by Judaism.

And till date Christians haven't provided any scripture, even using their new testament, where Jesus said "I am G-d, Worship Me".
This isn't merely a case of one religion casting aspersions at the other.

Islam recognizes Jesus as a Prophet and regards his teachings.
But they still preach that G-d is One, and G-d is without a spouse or an offspring.

Stellar360:


This is preposterous.
Christianity is literally influenced by Judaism.

And till date Christians haven't provided any scripture, even using their new testament, where Jesus said "I am G-d, Worship Me".
This isn't merely a case of one religion casting aspersions at the other.

Islam recognizes Jesus as a Prophet and regards his teachings.
But they still preach that G-d is One, and G-d is without a spouse or an offspring.

The fact that Christianity shares a common origin with Judaism adds nothing to your argument. Sharing a common origin does not make it false.
And even if there are no records of Jesus Christ calling himself God, his apostles called him God and I would rather believe his apostles than believe you.
Honestly, I am not getting your point. I understand you are not a Christian but what exactly is your point.

tctrills:


The fact that Christianity shares a common origin with Judaism adds nothing to your argument. Sharing a common origin does not make it false.
And even if there are no records of Jesus Christ calling himself God, his apostles called him God and I would rather believe his apostles than believe you.
Honestly, I am not getting your point. I understand you are not a Christian but what exactly is your point.

Quite a hilarious response.
Okay, let's get something straight.
Christianity and Judaism doesn't have a 'common' origin. Matter of fact, Christianity copied the Old testament to include it in its own bible.

Christians no nothing about The practices of Judaism.
Obeying the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments), Leading a Kosher, Observing Shabbat(Keeping it Holy); none of these are done or practiced in Christianity.
What you call christianity today was cleverly crafted By The Roman Catholics.
Paul and the likes were the major pioneers.

You claim to worship Jesus, and call him God without substantial evidence that proves that claim.
If anything, that should inform you that you're leading a life of falsehood, worshipping the 'false' God.
Jesus never called himself G-d, because He's a religious Jew, who worships HaShem.

It's this simple, worship G-d, your creator, and Worship Him Alone.
You don't need anyone telling you that, the truth can be found in the Tanakh.

I just don't understand why you'd rather make up one's divinity and worship that person, than to Worship The True G-d.
Peace be upon you.

[quote author=Stellar360 post=125359488]
Let me see if I can respond to your points.


Christianity and Judaism doesn't have a 'common' origin. Matter of fact, Christianity copied the Old testament to include it in its own bible.
The origin of both religions is the believe in the God of Abraham. The Old testament is the word of God, every believer has a claim to it

Christians no nothing about The practices of Judaism.
Yes Christians understand that Judaism is a religion in error.

What you call christianity today was cleverly crafted By The Roman Catholics.
Paul and the likes were the major pioneers.
Paul, Peter, John and all the Apostles of Christ were not Catholics so you are wrong.


You claim to worship Jesus, and call him God without substantial evidence that proves that claim.
What more evidence do you want that the testimony of the new testament. Explain what you mean by sufficient evidence.

Jesus never called himself G-d, because He's a religious Jew, who worships HaShem.
His Apostles called him God. I understand you don't believe them but that's your opinion.

It's this simple, worship G-d, your creator, and Worship Him Alone.
John 1.1-5

You don't need anyone telling you that, the truth can be found in the Tanakh.
No, Christ is the truth

I just don't understand why you'd rather make up one's divinity and worship that person, than to Worship The True G-d.

I understand you think Christ is made up just the same way a Hindu with think the same of the Jewish God. But what exactly is your point. Every religion thinks the other is false so what makes your argument any special.
Have fun

Stellar360:

This is preposterous.
Christianity is literally influenced by Judaism.

This is a lie!

Judaism isn't the religion Moses handed over to the Israelites, Jewish returnees from Babylon interpreted what Moses wrote and misconstrued it by mixing it up with Babylonian mythology hence Judaism became a problem even for the Jews themselves.
That's what led to contradictions among those claiming Judaists so that several rival sects emerged with conflicting doctrines.

So by the time Jesus of Nazareth walked the earth the Jews themselves were tired of their religious leaders who were contradicting themselves regarding how to worship their God acceptably.

Ọmọ Christianity started on a clean slate having nothing to do with Judaism but because Jesus and those Judaists were quoting the same books most of you think Christianity stem from Judaism. The only thing there is the Judaists started their religion centuries before Jesus arrived but as for beliefs NO that's what led to his persecution and assassination!

[quote author=tctrills post=125359932][/quote]
perhaps you think I'm merely casting aspersions.

If Judaism is truly a religion of error, The very religion Jesus was born into, then you are utterly delusional for believing and worshipping someone who lived his whole life a Jew.

Islam and Judaism both have their roots in the faith of Abraham.
Christianity doesn't, it came long after Jesus died.

Christians don't believe in the Old Testament, at least I'm led to believe so.
Because if they remotely do, they'd know their wrongs and turn away from falsehood.
Now, assuming you're an exception, and you do believe in the Old Testament, I encourage you to read Isaiah 43:10.

There G-d spoke directly and in an unambiguous manner, not what you lot do with the New Testament where you making awful inferences Just to prove Jesus' Divinity.

MaxInDHouse:


This is a lie!

Judaism isn't the religion Moses handed over to the Israelites, Jewish returnees from Babylon interpreted what Moses wrote and misconstrued it by mixing it up with Babylonian mythology hence Judaism became a problem even for the Jews themselves.
That's what led to contradictions among those claiming Judaists so that several rival sects emerged with conflicting doctrines.

So by the time Jesus of Nazareth walked the earth the Jews themselves were tired of their religious leaders who were contradicting themselves regarding how to worship their God acceptably.

Ọmọ Christianity started on a clean slate having nothing to do with Judaism but because Jesus and those Judaists were quoting the same books most of you think Christianity stem from Judaism. The only thing there is the Judaists started their religion centuries before Jesus arrived but as for beliefs NO that's what led to his persecution and assassination!

I'd like you to mention a contradiction from the Tanakh (Tanakh is the Hebrew Bible/Scripture) or The 613 MITZVOT.

Also, it appears you're not aware that Jesus lived and died a Jew.
Christianity has always been about the Divinity of Jesus, while exceedingly being influenced The Roman Catholic Mission.
Jews and Muslims Worship One True G-d, and share no further belief in extra doctrines such as the trinity.

If Judaism is truly a religion of error, The very religion Jesus was born into, then you are utterly delusional for believing and worshipping someone who lived his whole life a Jew.

The Jews accused Jesus of breaking their laws and traditions. He called out their leaders and his doctrines and teaches were not rooted in Judaism.

Islam and Judaism both have their roots in the faith of Abraham.
Christianity doesn't, it came long after Jesus died.
It doesn't matter when Christianity came. Islam came much later so, again you are wrong.

Christians don't believe in the Old Testament, at least I'm led to believe so.
Christian understanding of the old testament is different from yours.

Because if they remotely do, they'd know their wrongs and turn away from falsehood.
About the old testament, Jesus taught, "search the scriptures for they testify of me."

Stellar360:

Christianity has always been about the Divinity of Jesus, while exceedingly being influenced The Roman Catholic Mission.

This is the lies Judaists are spreading because they stubbornly refused to believe the Torah!

According to the Torah there are just two prophets sent to establish the two covenants from God: Moses is the first prophet given the supernatural powers to perform SIGNS like a God in their midst {Exodus 7:1} and their God promised to send another prophet from among them who will come in the same manner {Deuteronomy 18:18} and just like Moses this prophet will also serve as God in their midst {Isaiah 9:6} performing great signs to prove his authenticity as the messenger of the new covenant! Malachi 3:1

So why two covenants?

The first covenant was to fulfil what God told Abraham about his descendants being God's people so Moses was the messenger of that covenant to establish it. Exodus 19:5
The second covenant will be to open the way for people of all other nations to benefit from priestly nation (Israel) Zechariah 8:23

The Israelites proved to be unfaithful towards that first covenant {Jeremiah 31:31-33} but God kept His own side of the covenant until the messenger of that second covenant appeared in their midst as Jesus of Nazareth.

This prophet was speaking to them in the name of the same God who established the first covenant with them using the Torah {John 17:6, 26} he made them realize that they don't need to keep malice with nations around them if they must welcome the second covenant {Matthew 5:44-48} otherwise they will not be able to fulfil the assignment given to them as a means of salvation for all other nations! Genesis 12:1-3

The Jews knew very well that Jesus surely proved to be that promised messenger of the new covenant {John 7:31} but the problem they had with him is their malicious intent to avenge all the errors of the surrounding nations most especially the Romans who were forcefully ruling over them. So when Jesus of Nazareth spoke about love for neighbours {Mark 12:31} they specifically wanted to know what he meant by that word "NEIGHBOUR" Luke 10:29

Jesus proved to them that anyone can be their neighbour it depends on how they treat others {Luke 10:30-37} this really got on their nerves because by that time the Jews (three southern tribes of Israel) has harbored resentment against Samaritans (ten Northern tribes of Israel) for centuries. So for Jesus to illustrate that a Samaritan can be their neighbour is something unacceptable to the Jews!

So don't allow them deceive you anymore Jesus never claimed to be their God rather he consistently told them that he was a messenger from their God! John 3:16

I saw their misconstrued rendering of Isaiah 9:6 where they changed the writings from what Isaiah wrote regarding the coming Messiah who will prove to be a wonderful counselor, mighty God, everlasting father and Prince of Peace in their midst. This was a way to divert the attention of interested individuals away from thinking about Jesus being the promised Messiah.

Please when next you find a professed Jews or Judaist ask him or her to quote any verse in the Tanakh where God asked the Jews to go preaching and teaching people of other nations about their Torah.
They have missed the mark!
If they reject Jesus of Nazareth then they have nothing to prove that their God actually sent them to convert people of other nations, Jesus is the one and only connection between them and other nations that's why he commanded the few Jews that accepted him as the promised Messiah saying:

“All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things" Matthew 28:18-20

The Jews are malicious LIARS all they are doing after rejecting Jesus of Nazareth was to look for support from anyone who will not accept Jesus as the promised Messiah (son of God) that's why they embraced Islam but they short themselves in the foot because Muslims can't reject Jesus completed due to the fact that it's through Jesus' establishment of a group who were preaching and teaching that Muslims got the idea of preaching and teaching to other nations but instead of them to follow Jesus' instructions which says his disciples must be harmless as doves {Matthew 10:16} Muslims kept waging wars against those that resist their politically oriented religion.

I have a lot to tell you but if you want to know more please welcome a free home Bible study with Jehovah's Witnesses. We are not worshiping Jesus rather Jesus is also a worshiper of our God! John 20:17

Thanks, God bless you and may you have PEACE!

MaxInDHouse:


This is the lies Judaists are spreading because they stubbornly refused to believe the Torah!

According to the Torah there are just two prophets sent to establish the two covenants from God: Moses is the first prophet given the supernatural powers to perform SIGNS like a God in their midst {Exodus 7:1} and their God promised to send another prophet from among them who will come in the same manner {Deuteronomy 18:18} and just like Moses this prophet will also serve as God in their midst {Isaiah 9:6} performing great signs to prove his authenticity as the messenger of the new covenant! Malachi 3:1

So why two covenants?

The first covenant was to fulfil what God told Abraham about his descendants being God's people so Moses was the messenger of that covenant to establish it. Exodus 19:5
The second covenant will be to open the way for people of all other nations to benefit from priestly nation (Israel) Zechariah 8:23

The Israelites proved to be unfaithful towards that first covenant {Jeremiah 31:31-33} but God kept His own side of the covenant until the messenger of that second covenant appeared in their midst as Jesus of Nazareth.

This prophet was speaking to them in the name of the same God who established the first covenant with them using the Torah {John 17:6, 26} he made them realize that they don't need to keep malice with nations around them if they must welcome the second covenant {Matthew 5:44-48} otherwise they will not be able to fulfil the assignment given to them as a means of salvation for all other nations! Genesis 12:1-3

The Jews knew very well that Jesus surely proved to be that promised messenger of the new covenant {John 7:31} but the problem they had with him is their malicious intent to avenge all the errors of the surrounding nations most especially the Romans who were forcefully ruling over them. So when Jesus of Nazareth spoke about love for neighbours {Mark 12:31} they specifically wanted to know what he meant by that word "NEIGHBOUR" Luke 10:29

Jesus proved to them that anyone can be their neighbour it depends on how they treat others {Luke 10:30-37} this really got on their nerves because by that time the Jews (three southern tribes of Israel) has harbored resentment against Samaritans (ten Northern tribes of Israel) for centuries. So for Jesus to illustrate that a Samaritan can be their neighbour is something unacceptable to the Jews!

So don't allow them deceive you anymore Jesus never claimed to be their God rather he consistently told them that he was a messenger from their God! John 3:16

I saw their misconstrued rendering of Isaiah 9:6 where they changed the writings from what Isaiah wrote regarding the coming Messiah who will prove to be a wonderful counselor, mighty God, everlasting father and Prince of Peace in their midst. This was a way to divert the attention of interested individuals away from thinking about Jesus being the promised Messiah.

Please when next you find a professed Jews or Judaist ask him or her to quote any verse in the Tanakh where God asked the Jews to go preaching and teaching people of other nations about their Torah.
They have missed the mark!
If they reject Jesus of Nazareth then they have nothing to prove that their God actually sent them to convert people of other nations, Jesus is the one and only connection between them and other nations that's why he commanded the few Jews that accepted him as the promised Messiah saying:

“All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things" Matthew 28:18-20

The Jews are malicious LIARS all they are doing after rejecting Jesus of Nazareth was to look for support from anyone who will not accept Jesus as the promised Messiah (son of God) that's why they embraced Islam but they short themselves in the foot because Muslims can't reject Jesus completed due to the fact that it's through Jesus' establishment of a group who were preaching and teaching that Muslims got the idea of preaching and teaching to other nations but instead of them to follow Jesus' instructions which says his disciples must be harmless as doves {Matthew 10:16} Muslims kept waging wars against those that resist their politically oriented religion.

I have a lot to tell you but if you want to know more please welcome a free home Bible study with Jehovah's Witnesses. We are not worshiping Jesus rather Jesus is also a worshiper of our God! John 20:17

Thanks, God bless you and may you have PEACE!

Well, I like that you ended your erroneous speculations with "We don't worship Jesus".
I remember asking you to point out the inconsistencies you mentioned in your previous response, which you didn't.
And that means you're telling lies. I'll forgive that. I don't appreciate condescendingly calling people with deferring views and beliefs names, I never called you any since the beginning of our discourse.

Stop quoting the new testaments whose authors aren't known, to prove your point.
And if you say the Torah is corrupted, why have it in your bible?
There's something you still don't get or are choosing not to understand. Jesus was a Jew, He live as one and died as one.

And did you just say the book of isaiah was changed? You must be extremely delusional to even come up with such an absurd claim. I remember posting something about that scripture, and just to be clear that was gotten from the tanakh, where you christians got your old testament from, before the whole translation spree began.

Stellar360:

Well, I like that you ended your erroneous speculations with "We don't worship Jesus".
I remember asking you to point out the inconsistencies you mentioned in your previous response, which you didn't.
And that means you're telling lies. I'll forgive that. I don't appreciate condescendingly calling people with deferring views and beliefs names, I never called you any since the beginning of our discourse.
Stop quoting the new testaments whose authors aren't known, to prove your point.
And if you say the Torah is corrupted, why have it in your bible?
There's something you still don't get or are choosing not to understand. Jesus was a Jew, He live as one and died as one.
And did you just say the book of isaiah was changed? You must be extremely delusional to even come up with such an absurd claim. I remember posting something about that scripture, and just to be clear that was gotten from the tanakh, where you christians got your old testament from, before the whole translation spree began.

It's OK.
So can you quote anywhere in your Tanakh where the Israelites God asked them to go and preach to people of other nations?

Please tell me how you got in contact with Jews if you're not one by birth because the only people that came to my house to preach are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES supposedly obeying the order given by Jesus of Nazareth.

So tell me who preached Judaism to you!

MaxInDHouse:


It's OK.
So can you quote anywhere in your Tanakh where the Israelites God asked them to go and preach to people of other nations?

Please tell me how you got in contact with Jews if you're not one by birth because the only people that came to my house to preach are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES supposedly obeying the order given by Jesus of Nazareth.

So tell me who preached Judaism to you!

Jews don't go around looking for who to convert.
Still waiting on you to mention the inconsistencies.

Stellar360:


This is preposterous.
Christianity is literally influenced by Judaism.

And till date Christians haven't provided any scripture, even using their new testament, where Jesus said "I am G-d, Worship Me".
This isn't merely a case of one religion casting aspersions at the other.

Islam recognizes Jesus as a Prophet and regards his teachings.
But they still preach that G-d is One, and G-d is without a spouse or an offspring.

When you start asking the popular Muslim question... I laugh.

By the way, I've been waiting for a good response.
Why aren't you Jews still keeping all of Moses' Laws? Especially the sacrifices.

Stellar360:

Jews don't go around looking for who to convert.

So go worship the God of your own forefathers and stop running after other people's God because they don't give a damn about you.

Stellar360:

perhaps you think I'm merely casting aspersions.

If Judaism is truly a religion of error, The very religion Jesus was born into, then you are utterly delusional for believing and worshipping someone who lived his whole life a Jew.

Islam and Judaism both have their roots in the faith of Abraham.
Christianity doesn't, it came long after Jesus died.

Christians don't believe in the Old Testament, at least I'm led to believe so.
Because if they remotely do, they'd know their wrongs and turn away from falsehood.
Now, assuming you're an exception, and you do believe in the Old Testament, I encourage you to read Isaiah 43:10.

There G-d spoke directly and in an unambiguous manner, not what you lot do with the New Testament where you making awful inferences Just to prove Jesus' Divinity.

Yesterday, I stumbled upon something and I felt this would help educate you further. So 3 religions are know as the Abrahamic religions. Theses are Christianity, Islam and Judaism.
To learn more, I have attached a link. After you have read, I will be open to answering any question you may have.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions