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Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA - Satellite TV Technology (1486) - Nairaland

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UPS Back-up, Also A Complement To FTA / FTA Frequency / Cctv Installation A Complement To Fta And Solar Energy (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bassdow: 1:59pm On Sep 30, 2023
Draei:


Abeg help me with these 3 questions.

1. Which is better btw a Valve Regulated Lead-Acid b3 and a dry cell b3 for solar.

2. Also we no get light here at all, so I'm thinking I won't be needing the Hybrid 12v you mention. Correct me if I'm wrong.

3. Lastly, won't I need be needing a charging controller?

P.S: All my home appliances no pass 200W.
Cc; Dam5reey

1. By "Valve Regulated Lead-Acid", you mean Tubular wet batteries, Quality being same, Tubular batteires are better than Dry cell batteries.
2. you need inverter to convert the DC current to AC current. AC Currrent is what PHCN/NEPA supplies to homes.
3. you wouldn't be needing a ChargeController, if using a Hybrid inverter. Except of course you need higher capacity ChargeController, which would mean you are getting less of what you paid for te inverter.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bassdow: 2:02pm On Sep 30, 2023
swagifted:
Professionals in the house pls what is the difference between "hybrid inverter" and "transformer hybrid inverter".

You trying to compare 2 different things / terms.

1. There's Hybrid vs non-hybrid inverter

2. There's Transformer vs TransformerLESS inverter

A "transformer hybrid inverter" is one that CONTAINS a TRANSFORMER, and has a Built-In chargeController.

An inverter with TRANSFORMER is HEAVIER, more rugged, and could withstand more abuse such as Sparks, Spikes, surges, etc, than TransformerLESS inverter which are more portable, NOT Heavy, but LESS rugged.

TransformerLESS inverter, is popularly called Sachet inverter.
TransformerLESS inverter, uses MOSFET, and other semiConductors inStead of a transformer. They are more energy friendly - i.e they don't unnecessarily waste current via magnetic fields since they have no Transformer Coil windings. But they are less Rugged and Less Durable.

TransformerLESS inverters, are much CHEAPER than Inverters with TransFormers of similar spec.

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bassdow: 2:14pm On Sep 30, 2023
bassdow:


You trying to compare 2 different things / terms.

1. There's Hybrid vs non-hybrid inverter A hybrid inverter, is an inverter with inbuilt (PWM or MPPT) chargeController. When you have such inverter, you often don't need external chargeController. often, I advice against getting an inverter with built-in chargeController

2. There's Transformer vs TransformerLESS inverter
An inverter with TRANSFORMER is HEAVIER, more rugged, and could withstand more abuse such as Sparks, Spikes, surges, etc, than TransformerLESS inverter which are more portable, NOT Heavy, but less rugged. TransformerLESS inverter, is popularly called Sachet inverter. TransformerLESS inverter, uses MOSFET, and other semiConductors inStead of a transformer. They are more energy friendly - i.e they don't unnecessarily waste current via magnetic fields since they have no Transformer Coil windings. But they are less Rugged and Less Durable

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bassdow: 2:24pm On Sep 30, 2023
brightk:
u just brought memories of squid... anyways i havent used it in a long time... internet speeds have improved over time and still improving... but i think i will make out time for NGNIX and see its potentials...... na where de bring money man de face 4 nigeria oo
nginX has got lots to offer and more resource friendly. other similar technologies, while trying to stay in compettition, have become fragmented a lot.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bassdow: 2:25pm On Sep 30, 2023
brightk:
i think mikrotik does it better.. back in the days we made use of a spare pc grin n referred it to as cache. We installed some spare hdd n installed mikrotik x86 on the boot drives leaving the other bigger drives to act as the proxy cache. I believe things have grown abovecthis stage. Maybe you can check on the mokrotik product catalogue to see which products fit your needs
uNa don old Ooo
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bassdow: 2:42pm On Sep 30, 2023
jonescosmos:


You might want to put up some restrictions on your network.

In my office I used Mikrotik RB1100AHx4 to secure my Network. Using Layer7 Regexp and firewall to block so many things like Windows and Office Updates so they get it from the File Server, Blocking downloads by size and file types, Blocking bittorrents, Blocking Social Media and Streaming services (for some users), etc.
Used Adguard DNS for block explicit contents (porn), adverts, malwares, etc.
Used ARP=reply-only on your Local Network Interface to make sure that VPN and manual IP or DNS users can't use your network, except they use the IP and DNS that your Gateway allocates to them via DHCP, any attempt to alter or use a manual IP or VPN knocks them out of your Network, etc.
You can always have a list of IPs that are exempted from these restrictions though.

The pictures below can guide you further.

love it when I see like minds in here.

Additonally or Alternatively, @FEGEITOK could block all external sites, and only leave a whiteList of a couple essential to work purpose. You shouldn't have access to nairaLand if it's not useful for your jobDescription. Also you should have a way to view any user's PC screen. That alone would put them on their toes. Time Limit all PCs so it locks them out outSide Office Open hours.
Disable USB ports if need be.

Put consideration of skill level of the uers, so they don't easily find work-arounds.

Just have a central PC (server) where all other PCs access internet from. That way, you cold allow access based on staff position e.g MD, casshier, etc
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by brightk(m): 3:51pm On Sep 30, 2023
bassdow:
all I would say is - be wary of marketers
lol
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by brightk(m): 3:51pm On Sep 30, 2023
bassdow:
uNa don old Ooo
lol.. this ur comment de make me laf
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by BRIGHTSOLAR(m): 4:20pm On Sep 30, 2023
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BATTERY RACK 4 BATTERIES N 25,000
BATTERY RACK 8 BATTERIES N 50,000


CHARGE CONTROLLER

MIV MPPT SERIES
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4MM² COMBINED (RED & BLACK) 200M N150, 000


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Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Draei: 5:20pm On Sep 30, 2023
bassdow:


1. By "Valve Regulated Lead-Acid", you mean Tubular wet batteries, Quality being same, Tubular batteires are better than Dry cell batteries.
2. you need inverter to convert the DC current to AC current. AC Currrent is what PHCN/NEPA supplies to homes.
3. you wouldn't be needing a ChargeController, if using a Hybrid inverter. Except of course you need higher capacity ChargeController, which would mean you are getting less of what you paid for te inverter.

Alright thanks. Concerning that number 1. Here is a picture below, I dunno if its the tabular wet b3 you mentioned.

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by jonescosmos(m): 6:27pm On Sep 30, 2023
bassdow:


love it when I see like minds in here.

Additonally or Alternatively, @FEGEITOK could block all external sites, and only leave a whiteList of a couple essential to work purpose. You shouldn't have access to nairaLand if it's not useful for your jobDescription. Also you should have a way to view any user's PC screen. That alone would put them on their toes. Time Limit all PCs so it locks them out outSide Office Open hours.
Disable USB ports if need be.

Put consideration of skill level of the uers, so they don't easily find work-arounds.

Just have a central PC (server) where all other PCs access internet from. That way, you cold allow access based on staff position e.g MD, casshier, etc


These tweaks you have mentions are one click away from me to be implemented.
Some have also become deprecated especially the bolded statements above.
An SNMP Server takes care of user activities in your workplace by logging all activities (Keyboard Strokes, Mouse clicks, Files Fingerprinting, etc on their PCs rather than spying on their Screens.
Putting time limits on Users PCs at workplace was retired by Covid Outbreak when people were mandated to work remotely, which is still happening till date.
Disabling USB ports is now a full option in BIOS and UEFI interfaces, you can do that if the need be but it has been deprecated also by the use of cloud services people mostly no longer have needs to carry usb storage devices.
You no longer need a shared internet from a Central PC, This has become deprecated. An Internet Gateway/Firewall can do this for you by ACL

I just read a couple of comments where people are asking for where to switch to or concentrate on because it makes you more money. Well I would say that despite the new or modern day nomenclatures that has evolved in computations eg, AI, Coding, CyberSecurity, etc, You must know the basics in any field you are to venture into.

I am where I am today because I have had a practical hands on experience with equipments like: Alcatel, Ericsson, Huawei, TP-Link, DLink, Juniper, NEC, Nokia, Ciena, ZTE, Zycel, Orinoco, Magnums, WAVELAN, Synoptics, Kalpana, Mitsubishi, Meraki, Belkin, Fortinet, Sophos, Cyberoam, SonicWall, Calix, Aruba, Aris, Avaya, Cisco, Motorola, Ubiquiti, CommScope, Control4, EnGenius and the list goes on.

So imaging me and someone without these experiences in a classroom to study CyberSecurity because he has been told that it makes you more money. Or someone who had just graduated from the University and has been told to focus on CyberSecurity because that's where the money is now. I leave you to be the judge.

4 Likes 2 Shares

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by litaninja(m): 6:59pm On Sep 30, 2023
Well, for people who have been in the "corporate" world for a while and to a certain level, such inside happenings are not unusual or new. And for those who have combined it with a bit of entrepreneurship even better. Such a roller-coaster experience comes with the territory.

So, again. Fire down. Na once man de die.

DROP UPDATE!!! grin

FEGEITOK:


Although I said earlier: "It is a choice between chasing 10,000 clients paying 10,000.00 each on the one side OR say 10 clients paying 10,000,000.00"

It could also be 2 clients paying 50,000,000.00 or 1 client paying 100,000,000.00

Now imagine that 1 of the 2 clients paying 50,000,000.00 decides to drop you when you did nothing wrong. Say the CEO is retiring and decides that he needs to go home with your contract pay as his retirement package, so he substitutes your company with his junior brother's company.

You had no prior knowledge of this coming. What happens to your projections? What happens to everyone else who suffers from this executive action? Your staff? Your family life? Your love/romantic live? Can you handle the emotional toll that comes from things going this way?

If this happens in say September you have barely enough time to find an alternative or alternatives as mega corporate deals are rarely completed in 3 months, a 6 month to 9 month or even 12 month timeframe might be more realistic.

You know that unlike what happens on nairaland, you cannot call him out because if you do, no other person from that company will deal with you again. And if care is not taken, no other person from that industry as a whole will deal with you because you a snitch.

You also know that you cannot take it to court, because then you will put the whole world on notice that you are a fighter which might negatively affect the attraction of future business.

In addition, to the above, there is the stress of always learning, to stay ahead of the curve so you don't become a Nokia and continue to be relevant to your clients both current and future.

It could also be the other way around. You are the favored contractor getting all the juiciest of deals, and when there is a change of the guard, your patronage drops to zero in an instant. You are then relegated from most favored status to persona non grata.

Just a glimpse of stories from the trenches.

Can you really handle the heat?

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Queed: 8:13pm On Sep 30, 2023
bassdow:


You trying to compare 2 different things / terms.

1. There's Hybrid vs non-hybrid inverter

2. There's Transformer vs TransformerLESS inverter

A "transformer hybrid inverter" is one that CONTAINS a TRANSFORMER, and has a Built-In chargeController.

An inverter with TRANSFORMER is HEAVIER, more rugged, and could withstand more abuse such as Sparks, Spikes, surges, etc, than TransformerLESS inverter which are more portable, NOT Heavy, but LESS rugged.

TransformerLESS inverter, is popularly called Sachet inverter.
TransformerLESS inverter, uses MOSFET, and other semiConductors inStead of a transformer. They are more energy friendly - i.e they don't unnecessarily waste current via magnetic fields since they have no Transformer Coil windings. But they are less Rugged and Less Durable.

TransformerLESS inverters, are much CHEAPER than Inverters with TransFormers of similar spec.

When you say the TransformerLESS inverter doesn't use a transformer, then what boosts the voltage from say 12v, to whatever level that's suitable for appliances? tongue
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by mank1234(m): 9:12pm On Sep 30, 2023
Queed:


When you say the TransformerLESS inverter doesn't use a transformer, then what boosts the voltage from say 12v, to whatever level that's suitable for appliances? tongue

DC to DC converter then inverting as against inverting and then stepping up the AC.
TransformerLESS inverter uses the former.

The later is now done efficiently using toroidal transformer to step up the resulting AC. People still erroneously refer to this as transformerless because the transformer is different from the usual one they are used to.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by icjunior(m): 4:06am On Oct 01, 2023
olopan:
You can reach out to me for this, we offer a plan in line with this, should you meet the criterias.


How do I reach you?
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by kiekie1(m): 4:49am On Oct 01, 2023
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AGM Battery 12v200Ah (18 months warranty)

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Contact,
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Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Herdamorlar: 6:33am On Oct 01, 2023
ManAdii:
From all I've learnt from this thread I just finished my DIY setup. It consist of the following:
1.2kva TBB inverter
2 * 100AH sunfit batteries
Solar Talkers 40 amps mppt charge controller...

I'm looking at adding panels soon.
I just got inverter 3000w, charge controller and sunfit battery 100ah from jumia yesterday. Please I need your advice on the sunfit battery (is the battery last or I return it back) and how to connect the power supply to charge the inverter sunfit battery, can I charge it from my main socket or I get installer to connect it through electricity grid in my house?
Anybody that knows how to do this can also explain for me please
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Obnoxious2001(m): 7:09am On Oct 01, 2023
Please I need suggestions and opinion.

I have this 24v 5.12kw blue carbon lithium battery, that has been drained. The problem now is it has refused to come up.

I have tried using nepa to charge via the inverter , it not waking up, the solar panels too is not working as well...

How do I solve this problem?
Am thing of using an external 24v automatic low voltage disconnect switch to prevent further occurrence in the future, but I have no idea if such system is available.

Beside the inverter is a transformer based hybrid inverter with 100mppt controller.

I can't send image Now because of nairaland palava.

Senior men please come to my aid
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by BRIGHTSOLAR(m): 7:38am On Oct 01, 2023
Obnoxious2001:
Please I need suggestions and opinion.

I have this 24v 5.12kw blue carbon lithium battery, that has been drained. The problem now is it has refused to come up.

I have tried using nepa to charge via the inverter , it not waking up, the solar panels too is not working as well...

How do I solve this problem?
Am thing of using an external 24v automatic low voltage disconnect switch to prevent further occurrence in the future, but I have no idea if such system is available.

Beside the inverter is a transformer based hybrid inverter with 100mppt controller.

I can't send image Now because of nairaland palava.

Senior men please come to my aid


Use Jump start method

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by oweniwe(m): 11:16am On Oct 01, 2023
BRIGHTSOLAR:

Use Jump start method

Educate us further, please
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bassdow: 11:40am On Oct 01, 2023
Queed:


When you say the TransformerLESS inverter doesn't use a transformer, then what boosts the voltage from say 12v, to whatever level that's suitable for appliances? tongue
if you studied Electronics, or have background knowledge of such, or even did a little research, you would have known better.


why you think most electronics that used to be BULKy, are now much portable ?
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by kindlyheart: 11:42am On Oct 01, 2023
Queed:


When you say the TransformerLESS inverter doesn't use a transformer, then what boosts the voltage from say 12v, to whatever level that's suitable for appliances? tongue

I Guess inductors do the boosting
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by dacool1(m): 11:57am On Oct 01, 2023
mank1234:


DC to DC converter then inverting as against inverting and then stepping up the AC.
TransformerLESS inverter uses the former.

The later is now done efficiently using toroidal transformer to step up the resulting AC. People still erroneously refer to this as transformerless because the transformer is different from the usual one they are used to.

I disagree with your submission. Both transformer and transformerless inverters use transformers, just different kinds. The transformer based inverters uses low frequency transformers while the transformerless uses high frequency transformers.

You can't have an inverter without a transformer.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Dam5reey(m): 11:58am On Oct 01, 2023
bassdow:
if you studied Electronics, or have background knowledge of such, or even did a little research, you would have known better.


why you think most electronics that used to be BULKy, are now much portable ?

All Inverter has transformers.. there is nothing like transformerless.. high frequency use lighter transformers.

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by dacool1(m): 11:59am On Oct 01, 2023
Herdamorlar:

I just got inverter 3000w, charge controller and sunfit battery 100ah from jumia yesterday. Please I need your advice on the sunfit battery (is the battery last or I return it back) and how to connect the power supply to charge the inverter sunfit battery, can I charge it from my main socket or I get installer to connect it through electricity grid in my house?
Anybody that knows how to do this can also explain for me please

You want to connect a 3000w inverter to a 100ah battery. Be ready to replace the battery in 2 weeks except you don't load beyond 100watts
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bassdow: 12:04pm On Oct 01, 2023
jonescosmos:



These tweaks you have mentions are one click away from me to be implemented.
Some have also become deprecated especially the bolded statements above.
An SNMP Server takes care of user activities in your workplace by logging all activities (Keyboard Strokes, Mouse clicks, Files Fingerprinting, etc on their PCs rather than spying on their Screens.
Putting time limits on Users PCs at workplace was retired by Covid Outbreak when people were mandated to work remotely, which is still happening till date.
Disabling USB ports is now a full option in BIOS and UEFI interfaces, you can do that if the need be but it has been deprecated also by the use of cloud services people mostly no longer have needs to carry usb storage devices.
You no longer need a shared internet from a Central PC, This has become deprecated. An Internet Gateway/Firewall can do this for you by ACL

I just read a couple of comments where people are asking for where to switch to or concentrate on because it makes you more money. Well I would say that despite the new or modern day nomenclatures that has evolved in computations eg, AI, Coding, CyberSecurity, etc, You must know the basics in any field you are to venture into.

I am where I am today because I have had a practical hands on experience with equipments like: Alcatel, Ericsson, Huawei, TP-Link, DLink, Juniper, NEC, Nokia, Ciena, ZTE, Zycel, Orinoco, Magnums, WAVELAN, Synoptics, Kalpana, Mitsubishi, Meraki, Belkin, Fortinet, Sophos, Cyberoam, SonicWall, Calix, Aruba, Aris, Avaya, Cisco, Motorola, Ubiquiti, CommScope, Control4, EnGenius and the list goes on.

So imaging me and someone without these experiences in a classroom to study CyberSecurity because he has been told that it makes you more money. Or someone who had just graduated from the University and has been told to focus on CyberSecurity because that's where the money is now. I leave you to be the judge.


"I just read a couple of comments where people are asking for where to switch to or concentrate on because it makes you more money."

People ask me same almost regularly. They forget no matter what, the basics, background, and interest, are much more important than that money. That money would never come if you not good at what you do. You need be good enough to get more jobs, so as to be opportuned to solve more problems, which fetches that money you seek.

if You're good enough, you might never have the time to spend THAT money.

As for those things you say are depreciated, I made suggestions that could be implemented by just anyOne without spending money on extra unnecessary hardware, or skills.

You made mention of Covid-19 and how people are manDated to work reMotely, abeg when I make comments, I try to stay TRUE to realities, especially in our enviroment (Nigeria).
1. How many companies / businesses allow people work reMotely here in Nigeria ?
2. inFact, how many businesses are built to benefit from reMote working ?
3. How much of Jumia , Konga, etc workForce work from home ?
4. How much of MTN, Airtel, 9Mobile, Glo etc callCenter / contactCenter workForce, work from home ?
5. what about small businesses, which can't afford the cost of IT department, not even outSourced ones ?

The things I wrote, with a Modem Router (not even a dedicated router) sold by Nigerian ISPs, one could achieve some of them.

I only responded along the lines of SAVING DATA SUBSCRIPTIONS so you don't buy 20GB data, which should last 1-month, but it FINISHES within 2-weekks, probably bbecause your staff uses over 70% of them to download Vidoes.

OR

Your staff spending more of the office hours, on online activites, not beneficial to your business.

Just so we ain't mistaken, I'm not into netWorking abeg
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bassdow: 12:09pm On Oct 01, 2023
Draei:


Alright thanks. Concerning that number 1. Here is a picture below, I dunno if its the tabular wet b3 you mentioned.
This is a dry (AGM or GEL) cell battery.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by jonescosmos(m): 12:10pm On Oct 01, 2023
Obnoxious2001:
Please I need suggestions and opinion.

I have this 24v 5.12kw blue carbon lithium battery, that has been drained. The problem now is it has refused to come up.

I have tried using nepa to charge via the inverter , it not waking up, the solar panels too is not working as well...

How do I solve this problem?
Am thing of using an external 24v automatic low voltage disconnect switch to prevent further occurrence in the future, but I have no idea if such system is available.

Beside the inverter is a transformer based hybrid inverter with 100mppt controller.

I can't send image Now because of nairaland palava.

Senior men please come to my aid

Because your Lithium battery pack needs to sense battery voltage before starting to charge, It can't help you when it sees 0V from the battery cells (0v Because your BMS has shut you off due to over DOD).

So, to wake up your Battery Pack, You need to Jump start the battery just like you do to your car. But bear in mind that you have a 24v battery pack.
Get a 24V external Battery Charger or An Adjustable DC Power Supply or even 2pcs of 12v Batteries that are charged up, Set the readings to about 27V 10A, Hook up the terminals Negative to Negative and Positive to Positive Terminals of the Charger and Battery respectively.

If your BMS is inbuilt you might need to open the Battery Box because the terminals you have access to outside the box are P- and B+, and you need to hook up your external DC power supply to B- and B+.

Once you do this and certisfying other Input conditions from your Inverter, Mains and Solar Panel sources, etc, your Battery should resume charging, then unhook the external power sources you applied earlier.

If this did not help, then there might have been a fault in your BMS.

I hope this helps. Cheers

6 Likes 2 Shares

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bassdow: 12:18pm On Oct 01, 2023
Dam5reey:


All Inverter has transformers.. there is nothing like transformerless.. high frequency use lighter transformers.
unfortunately, I most times, know what I am saying.

as a Kid, I destroyed and REPaired lots of things. in fact I was likely to be found in electrician's workShop, on my way home from school.of course that was because those things INTERESTs me.

Don't want to say Nigeria happened to most of Us.

Anyway along the line, I developed interest in Computers, and moved around from Computer enginerring TO web design TO Programming To Server admin.

you can't compare when you are engaged in things you're PASSIONATE about, and when you not.

But when you said what You said above, I choose to be 100% sure of what I am say so I quickly asked Aunty Google.com and here's the response - https://www.google.com/search?q=why+do+some+inverters+not+have+transformers AND https://www.google.com/search?q=inverters+without+transformers


As I am now, I easily could StepUp or StepDown voltages and current any how I want without touching a transformer. I only responded just so others who might not know, don't get misInformed
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bassdow: 12:32pm On Oct 01, 2023
jonescosmos:


Because your Lithium battery pack needs to sense battery voltage before starting to charge, It can't help you when it sees 0V from the battery.

So to wake up your Battery Pack, Jump start the battery just like you do to your car. But bear in mind that you have a 24v battery pack.
Get a 24V external Battery Charger or An Adjustable DC Power Supply or even 2pcs of 12v Batteries that are charged up, Set the readings to about 27V 10A, Hook up the terminals Negative to Negative and Positive to Positive Terminals of the Charger and Battery respectively.

If your BMS is inbuilt you might need to open the Battery Box because the terminals you have access to are P- and B+, and you need to hook up your external DC power supply to B- and B+.

Once you do this and certisfying other Input conditions from your Inverter, Mains and Solar Panel sources, your Battery should resume charging, then unhook the external power sources you applied earlier.

If this did not help, then there might have been a fault in your BMS.

I hope this helps. Cheers

Your suggestions are very Good, me would only suggest He takes the battery to those who repairs solar things if he can't do things like this himself. What you suggested is only simple to some people, and lithium battery, along wiith BMS, are fragile. if to say na acid based battery now, person for allow am do tryYourLuck any how he wants
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by de3lar(m): 12:41pm On Oct 01, 2023
Please I need 12v 50ah lithium battery,

Anyone that has such should quote me with the price included too.

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