Ohyoudidnt:


By the emboldened are you now asking?

All the narrators of the hadith saying Aisha was that young are Iraqis who had heard it from Hisham. Allama Kandhulvi says that the words spoken in connection with Hazrat Aisha’s age were tissa ashara, meaning 19, when Hisham only heard (or remembered), tissa, meaning nine.

Many authentic hadiths also show that Hisham’s narration is incongruous with several historical facts about the Prophet’s life, on which there is consensus.

Is it not strange that Hisham ibn `urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life in Medinah and had students such as Malik ibn Anas under his tutilage who didn't narate same.

The hadith Ibn Majah 1877 is on Authority of Abu Ishaq of Baghdad who was Caliphs in what year?

Ahmad ibn Sanan told us, Abu Ahmad told us, Asiail told us, on the authority of Abu Ishaq, on the authority of Abu Ubaidah, on the authority of Abdullah, peace be upon him, The daughter of a seventh is built with it, and it is a nine daughter.

Ohyoudidnt:


Assuming he even did this which he didn't how come his enemies and antagonist never took him up on it? Maybe you should widen the scope to this as a means of validation. Find records of those who confronted Muhammad s.a.w regarding his marriage to Aisha mabpwh in his lifetime.

Ohyoudidnt:
So many hadith saying the same thing from a faulty source does not make it true or correct.
You too have joined the line of misled narrators.

Ohyoudidnt:


Assuming he even did this which he didn't how come his enemies and antagonist never took him up on it? Maybe you should widen the scope to this as a means of validation. Find records of those who confronted Muhammad s.a.w regarding his marriage to Aisha mabpwh in his lifetime.

TenQ:

The Jews who tried it got slaughtered like sacrificial ram.



Please let's end this now. There would be other topics next time.

You have proved yourself fairly knowledgeable in Islam. My only issue with you is that you seem to believe the Dawah people when they tell you things about Islam.

Peace!

Ohyoudidnt:

Let me direct you.
Aisha r.a had an elder sister, do research on her and the age gap between them to help you determine Aisha's age.

Ohyoudidnt:


By the emboldened are you now asking?
Allama Kandhulvi says that the words spoken in connection with Hazrat Aisha’s age were tissa ashara, meaning 19, when Hisham only heard (or remembered), tissa, meaning nine.

Is it not strange that Hisham ibn `urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life in Medinah and had students such as Malik ibn Anas under his tutilage who didn't narate same.

Ohyoudidnt:

I will like to know this story. How they challenged him about 'marrying and minor' and were slaughtered.

Ohyoudidnt:

Don't end this yet or are you shying away from the research points I gave you?

TenQ:

There is no story
Only a fool will challenge Mohammed after what he did to Banu Qurayza who surrendered to him after 25 days of siege!
Mohammed the best of mankind and the Merciful was very Merciful unto them.

TenQ:

It is not up to you to give me research points. It is up to you to present your Evidences!

Please let's end this now. There would be other topics next time.

Peace!

Ohyoudidnt:

Ok. Perharps there should be records of their views against such marriage. Anyway It is important to recognize that the events between Muhammad and Banu Qurayzah occurred in a context of war and self-defense against external threats in which loyalty and trust were paramount. The subsequent controversy surrounding the event should be understood within the framework of the difficult choices faced during times of conflict and the complex relations between tribes.

Banu Qurayzah was one of the Jewish tribes in Medina and had initially agreed to the Constitution of Medina. However, tensions began to arise between them and the Muslim community due to alleged acts of treachery during the Battle of the Trench, a crucial conflict that posed a significant threat to the Muslims in Medina.

Upon settling in Medina, Muhammad established the Constitution of Medina, a social contract that included both Muslim and Jewish tribes. This agreement allowed for religious freedom and cooperation among different communities.


This is not a case of giving you research points but advising you inorder to disabuse your mind of the false narratives. There's a 2 hour video on video wrt this however how many have such time resource to watch that.

According to the generally accepted tradition, Aisha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Aisha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Aisha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

The hadith in Sunan an-Nasa'i 3379 for instance due to the narrator Abi Maryam in the line of transmitters it can be by scholars of Hadith have graded weak. He also quoted hadith in Musnad Ahmad.

According to a number of narratives, Aisha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. It is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Aisha's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicate that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battle fields to help them, not to be a burden on them.

Asma (ra), the elder sister of Aisha (ra) was ten years older than Aisha (ra). It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma (ra) died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Aisha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Aisha (ra), if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.

Enjoy your day.

TenQ:

I know that modern Muslims are struggling to find excuses to show that Aisha was a teenager by the time she married Mohammed unfortunately the Evidences stack up against this.
1. She grew up knowing her father and family as Muslims.
2. She played with dolls and swings as at the time of her marriage to Mohammed
3. When she was accused of adultery, part of the excuses given for her was that she was still a child
4. There were even hadiths which spoke of her being sloppy as a child which was forgivable.
5. Aisha herself narrated many hadiths about herself which are not contested
6. There is story about Abu Bakr not wanting to give out her little daughter to Mohammed (but he didn't have much choice)
7. There are too many hadiths that agree that Aisha was between 6 & 7 year old when she married Mohammed and 9 year old when the marriage was consummated
8. Many Muslims actually believe and follow the sunnah that Aisha was 9 when the marriage was consummated thus you see them also following suit
9. The Qur'an did not FORBID marriage to prepubescent girls and in fact, a Muslim is given rules about divorce of prepubescent wives in the Qur'an by Allah.

It is not up to us to choose what to believe or what not to believe about our Religion. It is up to us to accept the truth as it happened even if we are not comfortable with it.

Jesus was crucified while stark naked on the cross. It happened even if we don't like it!
It would have been nicer to invent a story of how Jesus dissappeared and someone else was crucified in his place: but this would be a lame lie!


Have a nice day my friend!

Ohyoudidnt:


Commendable summation. However I doubt you sufficiently investigated your claims. It appears a conveniently accepted view based on a rooted bias/hatred of Islam.




1.While listing names of Muslims during the first days of Islam, Aisha’s name, together with her older sister Asma, are listed immediately after the names of the Sabiqun al-Awwalun (the first ones) like Uthman ibn Affan, Zubayr ibn Awwam, Abdurrahman ibn Awf, Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqas, Talha ibn Ubaydullah, Abu Ubayda ibn Jarrah, Arqam ibn Abi al-Arqam and Uthman ibn Maz’un. Being the 18th person to accept Islam, Aisha’s name precedes the names of Umayr ibn Abi Waqqas, Abdullah ibn Mas’ud, Salit ibn Amr, Ja’far ibn Abi Talib, Abdullah ibn Jahsh, Abu Hudayfa, Suhayb ibn Sinan, Ammar ibn Yasir, Umar ibn Khattab, Hamza ibn Abdilmuttalib, Habbab ibn Aratt, Said ibn Zayd and Fatima bint Khattab. This means she was living then and was mature enough to make such a choice and exercise her will. In addition, the information in reports that “she was a small girl then” shows that her name was mentioned in a conscious way [Ibn Hisham, Sira, 1/271; Ibn Hisham, Sira, 124.].

This date refers to the early days of Islam. For it is known that Aisha’s sister Asma, who was born around 595, was 15 when she became a Muslim [Nawawi, Tahzib al-Asma, 2/597; Hakim, Mustadrak, 3/635]. This indicates the year 610, when the Prophet started to receive the revelation and this then shows that Aisha was at least 5, 6 or 7 that day and that she was at least 17 or 18 when she married the Prophet in Medina.

2. You should consider that her playing with dolls in this case is to show playing with dolls shouldn't be confused with idolatry.
The hadeeth indicates that the toys that young girls play with are allowed, meaning dolls, which are essentially statues. It is deduced from this hadeeth that playing with dolls is not like the amusement with other images concerning which the threat of punishment is mentioned. Rather, it was deemed permissible. Are you not familiar with mature ladies that have teddy bears or dolls?

3. In truth the claim of adultery was a lie which was started by Abdullahi ibn Ubayy who seemingly became a Muslim, but Muslim tradition says that he remained treacherous to Islam until his death. Regarding this the following was revealed:
Q24:11 Indeed, those who came with falsehood are a group among you. Do not think it bad for you; rather, it is good for you. For every person among them is what [punishment] he has earned from the sin, and he who took upon himself the greater portion thereof - for him is a great punishment.

4. Perharps you will elucidate on this but bear in mind she provided assistance during battles. Would a sloppy person be able to provide assistance.

5. The hadiths narrated by people with questionable people in the line of transmission?

6. Abu Bakr's concerns centered around the fact that she was already bethroted to Jubayr, the son of Mut'im ibn Adi who's family later became afraid she would convert him from their pagan tradition.
Also he feared their marriage affecting his relations with Muhammad pbuh. Buhari 5081
The Prophet pbuh asked Abu Bakr for `Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

7. Have you also considered historical records that say otherwise? Do you not have the ability to reason or question? Is it that you now do what you wrongly claim muslims do by accepting whatever is said by who is seen as a teacher without investigating individualy?

8. Perharps they do because other aspects of worship are more important that placing so much importance on what will not benefit them. Also it is usually not worthwhile engaging in continuous argument with those who are fixated in their views.

9. And make not over your property (property of the orphan), which Allah had made a (means of) support for you, to the weak of understanding, and maintain them out of it, clothe them and give them good education. And test them until they reach the age of marriage. Then if you find them maturity of intellect, make over them their property……” (Q4:5-6)

No responsible Muslim would hand over financial management to a seven or nine year old immature girl. If we cannot trust a seven-year-old to manage the financial matters, she cannot be intellectually or physically fit for marriage also. Will you classify Abu Bakr ra as irresponsible?

The manner of reports regarding the humiliating treatment and crucifixion of Jesus in Christianity are part of reasons why this is questioned? The Bible too has statements regarding how the crucified are cursed.

The age at which Aisha bint Abu Bakr, the wife of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, was married, has been a topic of debate for centuries. While some claim that she was as young as nine years old at the time of the marriage, evidence supporting the theory that Aisha was indeed older than 10 when she married Muhammad are presented.

1. Historical Context:
To understand Aisha's age at the time of her marriage, it is crucial to consider the historical context of the Arabian Peninsula during that era. Historical records indicate that during the 7th century, the measurement of age was inconsistent, with people commonly having trouble knowing their exact birth year.

2. Contradictory Narratives:
Within Islamic tradition, there are various contradictory narratives regarding Aisha's age at the time of her marriage. While some hadiths suggest that she was nine years old, others present alternative accounts that provide evidence to the contrary. These discrepancies raise concerns regarding the reliability and accuracy of the available information.

3. Aisha's Life Prior to Marriage:
Reports from multiple sources indicate that Aisha actively participated in battles during the early Islamic period. She is known to have been present at the Battle of Uhud, which occurred in 625 CE. Such active involvement in warfare suggests that Aisha was physically and mentally mature, further implying that she was older than nine years old.

4. Dating Methodologies:
Dating methodologies applied to ascertain Aisha's age during her marriage further reinforce the argument that she was older than nine. Historians like Ibn Hibban, Ibn Hajar, and al-Sarakhsi provide an analysis of historical dates, which, along with other supportive evidence, indicate that Aisha may have been closer to 14 or 15 years old when she married Muhammad.

5. Cultural Practices in 7th Century Arabia:
It is important to understand the cultural practices prevalent in 7th-century Arabia, which differed from contemporary norms. In many societies of that era, early marriages were common due to various socio-economic reasons, including the need for alliances, protection, and cultural traditions. Given these prevailing customs, it is plausible that Aisha's marriage at a relatively young age may have been a reflection of the societal norms of the time.

6. Age Discrepancies in Genealogical Records:
Genealogical records play a vital role in estimating the age of individuals during that era. However, discrepancies in such records make it challenging to determine Aisha's exact age. Several prominent Islamic historians, including al-Biruni and Ibn Hazm, have discussed these inconsistencies, further undermining the narrative that Aisha was merely nine years old during her marriage.

Title: Numerated Proof Indicating Aisha Was Older Than 10 When She Married Muhammad

Introduction:
The age at which Aisha bint Abu Bakr, the wife of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, was married, has been a topic of debate for centuries. While some claim that she was as young as nine years old at the time of the marriage, this essay presents structured and numerated evidence supporting the theory that Aisha was indeed older than 10 when she married Muhammad.

1. Historical Context:
To understand Aisha's age at the time of her marriage, it is crucial to consider the historical context of the Arabian Peninsula during that era. Historical records indicate that during the 7th century, the measurement of age was inconsistent, with people commonly having trouble knowing their exact birth year.

2. Contradictory Narratives:
Within Islamic tradition, there are various contradictory narratives regarding Aisha's age at the time of her marriage. While some hadiths suggest that she was nine years old, others present alternative accounts that provide evidence to the contrary. These discrepancies raise concerns regarding the reliability and accuracy of the available information.

3. Aisha's Life Prior to Marriage:
Reports from multiple sources indicate that Aisha actively participated in battles during the early Islamic period. She is known to have been present at the Battle of Uhud, which occurred in 625 CE. Such active involvement in warfare suggests that Aisha was physically and mentally mature, further implying that she was older than nine years old.

4. Dating Methodologies:
Dating methodologies applied to ascertain Aisha's age during her marriage further reinforce the argument that she was older than nine. Historians like Ibn Hibban, Ibn Hajar, and al-Sarakhsi provide an analysis of historical dates, which, along with other supportive evidence, indicate that Aisha may have been closer to 14 or 15 years old when she married Muhammad.

5. Cultural Practices in 7th Century Arabia:
It is important to understand the cultural practices prevalent in 7th-century Arabia, which differed from contemporary norms. In many societies of that era, early marriages were common due to various socio-economic reasons, including the need for alliances, protection, and cultural traditions. Given these prevailing customs, it is plausible that Aisha's marriage at a relatively young age may have been a reflection of the societal norms of the time. Nevertheless none of these reports show any woman married at an age younger than 12.

6. Age Discrepancies in Genealogical Records:
Genealogical records play a vital role in estimating the age of individuals during that era. Several prominent Islamic historians, including al-Biruni and Ibn Hazm, have discussed these inconsistencies, further undermining the narrative that Aisha was merely nine years old during her marriage.

NairaLTQ:

This is TenQ

Unfortunately, I recieved a Ban while posting a reply to this.

I will try to repost it again to the best of my ability.

NairaLTQ:


The fact that Aisha was at the battle of Uhud was at the capacity of her being a WIFE to Mohammed. the Qur'an She did not go out to fight but to service her husband. Adults don't play with dolls.

Ohyoudidnt:


Perharps you can explain why Al-Tabari contradicts himself.
According to Al-Tabari, all four of Abu Bakr's children were born during the pre-Islamic period from his two wives. [Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari (died 922), Vol. 4, p. 50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979]

A young Aisha will have been born after Muhammad salallahu alaihi was salam received his first revelation.
Fatimah (ra) was born at the time the Ka`bah was rebuilt, when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old... she (Fatimah) was five years older that Aisha (ra). (Al-isabah fi tamyizi'l-sahabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Vol. 4, P. 377, Maktabatu'l-Riyadh al-haditha, al-Riyadh, 1978).So, based on Ibn Hajar, Fathima was born when Prophet was 35 years old and Aisha was 5 years younger than Fathima. If Ibn Hajar’s statement is factual, Aisha was born when Prophet was forty years old (Prophet’s age at the birth of Fathima PLUS 5 years = 40 years). If Aisha was married to Prophet when he was 52 years old, Aisha’ age at marriage would be 12 years {(Prophet’s age at the time of marriage MINUS Prophet’s age at Aisha’s birth (52 yrs – 40 years = 12 yrs)}.
CONCLUSION: Ibn Hajar, Tabari an Ibn Hisham and Ibn Humbal contradict each other. So, the marriage of Aisha at seven years of age is a myth.

According to the generally accepted tradition, Aisha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. But according to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Aisha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Aisha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.
According to a number of narratives, Aisha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Aisha's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicate that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battle fields to help them, not to be a burden on them.

According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Aisha (ra) was ten years older than Aisha (ra). It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma (ra) died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Aisha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Aisha (ra), if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.
Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (ra) reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah -- the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Aisha (ra) was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH -- the time she most likely got married.


According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices that she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked the identity of the bikr (virgin), Khaulah proposed Aisha's (ra) name.
All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "Bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year-old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady without conjugal experience prior to marriage, as we understand the word, virgin, in English. Therefore, obviously a nine-year-old girl is not a "lady" (Bikr). (Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol. 6, p. .210, Arabic, Dar Ihya al-turath al-`arabi, Beirut.)


The Battle of Uhud was fought in 3 AH. Describing the battlefield, Hazrat Anasra is reported to have said:

وَلَقَدْ رَأَيْتُ عَائِشَةَ بِنْتَ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، وَأُمَّ سُلَيْمٍ وَإِنَّهُمَا لَمُشَمِّرَتَانِ، أَرَى خَدَمَ سُوقِهِمَا تَنْقُزَانِ القِرَبَ، وَقَالَ غَيْرُهُ تَنْقُلاَنِ القِرَبَ عَلَى مُتُونِهِمَا، ثُمَّ تُفْرِغَانِهِ فِي أَفْوَاهِ القَوْمِ، ثُمَّ تَرْجِعَانِ فَتَمْلَآَنِهَا، ثُمَّ تَجِيئَانِ فَتُفْرِغَانِهَا فِي أَفْوَاهِ القَوْمِ

“I saw Aisha, daughter of Abu Bakr, and Umm Sulaim with their robes tucked up so that their anklets were visible. They hurriedly walked, carrying water skins on their backs, pouring water in the mouths of the wounded, would go back to fill the skins again and return to pour water in the mouths of people.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Kitab al-Jihad wa al-Asir)

What will disabuse your mind from copulatory relations and Islam? Hope it isn't indicative of your normal line of thinking?

A 13-14 yr old girl could play with a doll. You should also know of some older teens and early twenties that still have teddy bears perhaps from a younger age

TenQ:
Sorry,
1. Evidence ABOUND from Aisha herself that she was six or seven when she married your prophet.
2. Her evidence is 700 times stronger than anyone else's testimony.
3. The Muslims who quoted Aisha or testified that she was that young has NOTHING to gain by saying that their revered prophet married a prepubescent girl.
4. Any different opinion is attempt to to colour your prophet in a modern good light.

[/i]

TenQ:
Sorry,
Except you are acknowledging that Muslims are the greatest LIARs among men. How can we TRUST anything that come from Muslims?

[/i]

TenQ:

Like: If Jesus wasn't Crucified naked on the Cross, why would the Christians say he was crucified thus? What would have been their motives. It would have been more glorifying for them to claim that Jesus dissappeared but they didn't : Why!?

Ohyoudidnt:

Evidence abound from Aisha's mouth but related through other people?

The likely mistake of forgetting to relay the 'teen' part with the number should not be overlooked.
In his work "Rawdhat al-'Uqala," Ibn Hibban mentioned a narration that stated Aisha was married to the Prophet Muhammad at the age of fourteen.
Some work by Kathir too says same.

Ohyoudidnt:

Are you not aware of high level intellectual sarcasm? If a man has committed a crime punishable by death and he is put to death and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain all night on the tree but you shall bury him the same day for a hanged man is cursed by God." - Deuteronomy 21:22-23 then they bring you other verses saying the 'cursed' has freed you of the curse? Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree" Galatians 3:13. Would those that hatched this plan not be overcome in laughter. You know the myth of the rat that eats your toe and blows air on it to soothe it so you don't know?

Ohyoudidnt:

Did you not read any arguments against the 6/7/9yr brouhaha?

Sahih al-Bukhari 4993
Narrated Yusuf bin Mahk:
While I was with Aisha, the mother of the Believers, a person from Iraq came and asked, "What type of shroud is the best?" `Aisha said, "May Allah be merciful to you! What does it matter?" He said, "O mother of the Believers! Show me (the copy of) your Qur'an," She said, "Why?" He said, "In order to compile and arrange the Qur'an according to it, for people recite it with its Suras not in proper order." `Aisha said, "What does it matter which part of it you read first? (Be informed) that the first thing that was revealed thereof was a Sura from Al-Mufassal, and in it was mentioned Paradise and the Fire. When the people embraced Islam, the Verses regarding legal and illegal things were revealed. If the first thing to be revealed was: 'Do not drink alcoholic drinks.' people would have said, 'We will never leave alcoholic drinks,' and if there had been revealed, 'Do not commit illegal sexual intercourse, 'they would have said, 'We will never give up illegal sexual intercourse.' While I was a young girl of playing age, the following Verse was revealed in Mecca to Muhammad: 'Nay! But the Hour is their appointed time (for their full recompense), and the Hour will be more grievous and more bitter.' (54.46) Sura Al-Baqara (The Cow) and Surat An-Nisa (The Women) were revealed while I was with him." Then `Aisha took out the copy of the Qur'an for the man and dictated to him the Verses of the Suras (in their proper order) .

About the above Hadith. Al-Qurtubi says in his tafsir: Ibn Abbas said: “Between the revelation of this verse and the Battle of Badr passed seven years.” If that is so, this means that it was sent down before the hijra by five years, and eight years after the start of the Revelation.
Ibn Sida says in al-Muhkam and Ibn Manzur in Lisan al-Arab: al-Jariyah: A young women (fatiyyah). A fatiyya is another word for al-shabba (a pubescent woman). It appears that they use this word to refer to a girl at the very beginning of her puberty.
So how old was Aisha when 54:46 was revealed, which was revealed eight years after the Revelation?
According to the first opinion above she would have been four years old. A four-year-old is never referred to as a jariyah. Therefore the conclusion from this is that the first opinion is wrong, while according to the second opinion she would have been 12 at the time of this revelation, and this is what fits the meaning of jariyah as used in the language.

Sahih al-Bukhari 476
Narrated `Aisha:
(the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet pbuh visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My father Abu Bakr thought of building a mosque in the courtyard of his house and he did so. He used to pray and recite the Qur'an in it. The pagan women and their children used to stand by him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was a Softhearted person and could not help weeping while reciting the Qur'an. The chiefs of the Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that their children and women might be affected by the recitation of Qur'an).
How many 6yr olds attain puberty? answer truthfully though not necessarily to me. From this narration in Bukhari she was not yet married when she started her puberty.

TenQ:

Except if you can admit that your hadiths are pure junks, fabrications and lies.
No amount of alternative theory changes this if your religious books are mere fabrications!

TenQ:

And the scripture gave reasons for it.
The next day was sabbath and thus crucifixion must end before it.
This explains why the legs of the criminals were broken to hasten their deaths.
Unfortunately, the till today, the Muslims are the ones confused about Jesus's crucifixion : they have several conjectures to that effect.

TenQ:

There is no argument dear. Your hadiths are clear and unambiguous on the age of Aisha when she married Mohammed.
Every other thing is a testament to the LIES, UNRELIABILITY and UNTRUSTWORTHENESS of Muslim testimonies!

Ohyoudidnt:

No where is it stated that Hadith are infallible. Aren't these the writing based on the understanding of man?

A lot like your Bible for instance. The one said to be crucified with your Jesus says:
Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom" (Luke 23:42). Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43) But John 20:17 reads where Christ says to Mary Magdalene (three days after His crucifixion), "I have not yet ascended to My Father." So Christ hadn't returned to heaven the day of His crucifixion.

So if he hadn't gone up to the father or heaven did he just give the co-crucified Blind hope?


But the legs of Jesus weren't broken. Why? Every illusion has some logic behind it. Was there a pseudocide?

When evidence is provided for reasonable doubt? Aha your Hadith created version of Islam done without thorough consideration of verifying hadith along with what the Quran says.

You didn't share links to your evidence maybe these will be more convincing than your style of argument? Please share these weblinks.

TenQ:
Muslims: Why do you Pray to Mohammed?
Do Muslims even have an idea of Why they Pray To Mohammed! ?

Five times a day, Muslims pray both to Mohammed and Allah. Yes, you got me right!
Five times a day when Muslims pray they do the Tashahhud.

The Tashahhud (Arabic: تَشَهُّد, meaning "testimony [of faith]", also known as at-Tahiyyat (Arabic: ٱلتَّحِيَّات), is the portion of the Muslim prayer where the person kneels or sits on the ground facing the qibla, glorifies God, and greets the messenger and the righteous people of God followed by the two testimonials.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashahhud

The Tashahhud (Translated) can be divided into four parts
1. Prayer to Allah
"Greetings to Allah, and prayers, and pure things (are for Allah). "
2. Prayer to Mohammed
Peace be upon you, O Prophet, and the mercy of Allah and His blessings (are on you).
3. Declaration of Hope to the Muslim Ummah
Peace be upon us, and upon the righteous servants of Allah.
4. The Shahada: Statement of Faith
I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger."

My emphasis is on Part 2 of the Tashahhud
Just as in Part One, the recipient of the Prayer is Allah, in Part Two, the recipient of the Prayer is Mohammed. (O Mohammed! )
This assumes that Mohammed is ALIVE and can hear the Prayers of the Muslims. Peace be upon you, O Prophet!

In case you are wondering if Mohammed can accept prayers of Muslims, guess what here is a Hadith that proves it.

Sunan Abi Dawud 1047
Narrated Aws ibn Aws:
The Prophet said: Among the most excellent of your days is Friday; on it Adam was created, on it he died, on it the last trumpet will be blown, and on it the shout will be made, so invoke more blessings on me that day, for your blessings will be submitted to me. The people asked: Messenger of Allah, how can it be that our blessings will be submitted to you while your body is decayed? He replied: Allah, the Exalted, has prohibited the earth from consuming the bodies of Prophets.

Just as the Prayers of Muslims would be submitted to Allah, the Prayers of Muslims will also be submitted to Mohammed!


The Qur'an-Only Muslims correctly identify this Tashahhud as Making Mohammed a partner with Allah and thus a Shirk.
In one of their Publications, they report on innovations kafirs have brought into Islamic Prayers.


I hope I've been able to convince you that you Muslims pray to Mohammed (without thinking) five time daily as You recite your Tashahhud.
This is Idolatry :
How can you pray to both Mohammed and Allah at the same time and claim monotheism!?

Questions :
1. In what areas have I misrepresented Islam in the translation of the Tashahhud?
2. When you recite the Tashahhud, does Mohammed truly hear you?
3. Is it Halal to even pray to Mohammed?
4. Are the Qur'an-Only Muslims mistaken in their views?




Please let's make the answers short, direct and precise
Cc:
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jaephoenix:

Same way ou pray to Jesus

jaephoenix:

Same way ou pray to Jesus

jaephoenix:

Same way ou pray to Jesus

TenQ:

What is the Hadith?
Is it untrue that:
Hadiths are reports of the Deeds, Approvals and Sayings of your prophet Mohammed?
You seem to forget that the Qur'an is another Hadith according to Mohammed.
LOL

Again:
Is the Quran not a Hadith taken from Mohammed where he claimed that he recieved some words from Jibril who got it from Allah!?
Does the Qur'an you carry about not also have it's Isnad like every other hadith?



Yes the Legs of Jesus wasn't broken for two reasons
1. He was already dead therefore his legs needn't be broken. The legs of criminals were broken only to hasten the death of the crucified as he couldn't lift up himself to breathe again.
John 19:31-34:
"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) sought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. Then came the soldiers, and broke the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they broke not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and immediately came there out blood and water."

2. It was prophesied that the Messaiah's bone will NOT be broken.

Psalms 34:20
"He protects all his (the Messaiah's) bones, not one of them will be broken."

John 19:36-37:
"For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. And again another scripture said, They shall look on him whom they pierced."




Unfortunately,
It is you Muslims that are manufacturing conjectures to explain what happens to Jesus with respect to crucifixion!

MightySparrow:


Jesus is God.
Is Mohammed your God also?

jaephoenix:

Well not all christians believe Jesus is Yahweh. And Mo aint my god. I'm godless

Ohyoudidnt:
Why do you rely on Hadith different from the one Allah has given by the Quran? Is this not what you truly mean to say?

Ohyoudidnt:

Wonderful, you mean you need your legs to lift you up to breath? Explain the physiology doc.

Wouldn't it be more believable if the legs were broken yet healed in the few days upon his 'resurrection'? Is this too much to add to the miracle and prove the depth of suffering? How long after him did those crucified beside him take to die?

Ohyoudidnt:

Your story is really not adding up.
No sign will be given except the sign of Jonah yet in the time of Jonah was he dead? Did the time of death and resurrection really make 3 days and 3 nights?

TenQ:

Was it not Mohammed that told you Muslims that some of the words he speaks were from Allah? We're you there as evidence? Is it not just that you accept Mohammed's claim as true!?

What is the Hadith?
Is it untrue that:
Hadiths are reports of the Deeds, Approvals and Sayings of your prophet Mohammed?
You seem to forget that the Qur'an is another Hadith according to Mohammed.
LOL

Again:
Is the Quran not a Hadith taken from Mohammed where he claimed that he recieved some words from Jibril who got it from Allah!?
Does the Qur'an you carry about not also have it's Isnad like every other hadith?




You should have at least first read up the mechanism of death through crucifixion before stating this your ignorance.
1. The mechanism of death by crucifixion is asphyxiation or suffocation. The weight of the person hung by the hands prevent the person from breathing easily as the diaphragm muscle has to do more work. The person being crucified has to lift up his body with his legs to release this pressure so that he can breathe just a little better. The pains in the feet prevents him from relieving this pain for long. Thus he oscillates up and down for hours or even days till exhaustion takes over and he cannot lift up himself again. This make him succumb to asphyxiation or suffocation resulting in his death. It is a surprise you don't know this.

2. Explain how a person who had a nail driven through his ankles can walk about within three days. The anaesthetics and pain relievers of those days were so powerful that by the third day Jesus was already healed enough to walk with his disciples.
SMH!


Summary :
Jesus was in the grave for three days and three nights according to prophecy. He was planing crucified on Thursday because Friday was a high sabbath and Saturday was the normal Sabbath. Since Jews don't work on ANY sabbath, the preparation for burial of the body could not be done till Sunday morning.
The Sabbath does not mean Saturday sir. Sabbath means any work-free day (Holy day= Holiday) set aside for the Worship of Yahweh the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.


Detail Explanation in case you want to do your research
Statement of Objection of Muslims
Jesus did not spend three days and three nights in the grave.


1. Islamic Ignorance ONE says: The Book of Mark and John said that Jesus died on a Friday!
Explanation:
There is no word called Friday in any of the gospels.
Mark mentioned "the day before the Sabbath"
John also mentioned that He was buried on the day of preparation as Sabbath drew on.

Unfortunately for Muslims, the Jews had more than one kind of Sabbath.
a. Weekly Sabbath
b. Annual Sabbath
c. Seven Year Sabbath
d. Seventy Year Sabbath

There are actually seven kinds of Annual Sabbath that the Children of Israel celebrate. All thse are called HIGH SABBATH (Special Sabbath)
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Sabbaths

Examples apart from the Seventh day Sabbath (Saturday) :
i. Passover celebrations (the 14th of Nisan)
ii. Feast of Unleavened Bread, a holiday which is always observed on the 15th day of the month of Nisan
iii. Feast of First Fruits which was held on the Sunday following the Passover.
iv. Feast of Tabernacles


The day of Preparation is any day before a Sabbath.

Vadict:
Mark and John specified that Jesus was crucified on the day of Preparation (before Sabbath without specifying the kind of Sabbath).

John specified that the Sabbath was on a High Day (high Sabbath). This Sabbath was NOT the Weekly Sabbath but the Annual Sabbath. Jesus was crucified a day before the Annual Sabbath (Day of Preparation)


2. Islamic Ignorance TWO says: Jesus was said to have died just before Sabbath day (Saturday) which is Friday!

Response:
As explained above, the Day of Preparation was a Day before the High Sabbath NOT the Weekly Sabbath.

The High Sabbath Fell on a Friday (Thursday evening to Friday according to Jewish reconning of days), thus Jesus was crucified on a Thursday Morning and was buried before Thursday Evening.


3. Islamic Ignorance THREE: It was impossible for Jesus to die of his two legs were not broken.
Response:
I laugh in Swahili and Turkish language.

A. Jesus said:
John 10:17-18:
"Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."


In other words, Jesus gave up his spirit when He knew the Atonement it was completed.

Luk 23:46:
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into your hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

B. Have you ever heard that two men were fighting and one slumped and died even when no weapon was used?
Time of use and the nature instrument of punishment does not determine how fast a person would die from his injury.
C. Jesus was Arrested on Wednesday night and tried overnight till Thursday morning in three different locations before being crucified about 9:00 am Thursday morning. He didn't rest throughout the night before he was crucified. This was probably why he couldn't carry his cross and this had to be helped by Joseph of Arimathea


4. Islamic Ignorance FOUR : High Sabbath is the day two festivals were celebrated on a single day.

Response:
No sir. A high Sabbath is ANY of the seven Annual Sabbaths of Israel even though, sometimes it falls on a weekly Sabbath

See Attachments!


FINALLY:
Why do you think the Women came to anoint the Body of Jesus on Sunday and not Thursday, Friday or Saturday?

Jesus was buried just before the high Sabbath on Thursday Evening therefore there was tp time to anoint his dead body properly for his burial. The High Sabbath commenced from the evening of Thursday to the Evening of Friday (according to the Jews reconning of days).

Therefore, Jesus body could not be anointed properly for burial. By Friday evening, the Weekly Sabbath commenced till Saturday evening so, the body still couldn't be anointed. Thus, very early Sunday morning, the women went to anoint the body of Jesus.

Mar 16:1-2:
"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came to the sepulcher at the rising of the sun."


So Brother Ohyoudidnt :
Now that I've answered your Objections, can you FIRST answer the Questions below before continuing?
Two Questions
1. Can you give a logical reason why the Disciples of Jesus had to fabricate an elaborate lie that their Lord was crucified (NAKED), beaten and died on the cross if ot is untrue?

2. From Islamic teachings,
It is understandable if Allah Deceived the Jews and the Romans. Can you as a Muslim please explain the logical reason why Allah Deceived ALSO Mary the Mother of Jesus, all Jesus Disciples, Jesus's Family (brothers and sisters) and all followers and friends of Jesus?

Thank you.

Ohyoudidnt:


Interesting turn of events perharps on a later reflection to have the 3 days and 3 nights theory fit.

There are several reasons why Jesus was crucified on Friday, all of which are widely supported by historical evidence and biblical accounts. Firstly, Friday was considered the day of preparation for the Jewish Sabbath, which would begin at sundown. According to the Gospels, Jesus was crucified just before the Sabbath, making Friday the most likely day for his crucifixion. This is supported by the fact that there was a rush to take down Jesus' body from the cross and bury him properly before the Sabbath began, as Jewish law strictly forbade leaving bodies hanging on the Sabbath day.

Moreover, multiple New Testament accounts provide confirmation that Jesus was crucified on a Friday. For instance, Mark 15:42 states that Jesus was crucified the day before the Sabbath, which corresponds to Friday. Similarly, John 19:31 mentions that the day of Jesus' crucifixion was "a high day," meaning it was a special Sabbath, aligning with the fact that his crucifixion was on a Friday preceding the Jewish Passover.

Additionally, historical records outside of the Bible attest to the crucifixion of Jesus on a Friday. The Roman historian Tacitus, for example, mentioned that Jesus was executed by Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Although Tacitus does not mention the specific day, his account aligns with the time frame suggested by the biblical narrative, reinforcing the likelihood of Friday being the day of Jesus' crucifixion.

Gotquestions.org states: While the day of the crucifixion is debated, the day of the resurrection is absolutely clear:

For centuries, Good Friday has been widely accepted as the day on which Jesus Christ was crucified. Perharps you now fault this without the global change or acceptance to support this? Good Friday, observed by Christians worldwide, is commemorated as the day of Jesus Christ's crucifixion, followed by his resurrection on Easter Sunday. This tradition has been deeply rooted in Christian doctrine.

The Gospels provide significant scriptural evidence pointing towards the crucifixion taking place on a Friday. According to Matthew 27:62, Jesus was placed in the tomb shortly before the Sabbath. Additionally, Mark 15:42 states that Jesus was cruciformed on "Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath." Finally, Luke 23:54 further elucidates this concept, confirming that "it was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin."

During Jesus' time, the Pharisees scrupulously observed the Law of Moses. Crucial to their religious practices was the weekly Sabbath, which commenced on Friday evening and ended on Saturday evening. The Pharisees would not have permitted Jesus' body to remain on the cross during the Sabbath, as they were fastidious about avoiding defilement during this holy period. Therefore, crucifying Jesus on a Thursday or Wednesday, with the subsequent Sabbath following, would have contradicted their established customs. Instead, the Pharisees might have expedited the crucifixion procedure to ensure Jesus' body was removed and buried before the onset of Friday's Sabbath.

True to your nature Tenq you opened another thread in attempt to slander as this question touches too close to what you are comfortable with.

Ohyoudidnt:

Also, one commonly misunderstood aspect is the mechanism of asphyxiation. It is often believed that the person being crucified dies due to the inability to breathe properly. While this is indeed a contributing factor, recent medical analysis suggests that asphyxiation alone is not the primary cause of death. The positioning of the human body on the cross causes the chest to be constrained, limiting the expansion of the lungs. This reduces lung capacity and leads to shallow breathing, which can hinder proper oxygen supply. However, the body has natural adaptations that can counteract this limitation.

A person reported to be strong enough to undergo 40 days and 40 nights consecutive fast isn't strong enough to outlive the thieves crucified beside him?

Back to where we were. You sure are not aware of the fabrication of hadith that characterised the ummayad dynasty hence your over reliance on this rather than the revealed and preserved scripture; the Furqan.
It however is irrelevant your stance on this as Allah guides whom he wants to be guided regardless of your tantrums perharps from your disappoint and envy of where true muslims are.

TenQ:

Since it looks like you didn't read ANYTHING from what I posted, I want to ask you some basic questions that would clarify that you understood my writeup.
1. Is Saturday the only sabbath in israel
2. Did any of the gospels say Jesus was crucified on Friday




1. Are you saying authoritatively that those crucified do not die from asphyxiation?
Then what is the primary cause of death to the crucified knowing that not all of them were nailed to the cross but tied with ropes.
2. Can you explain why sometimes the legs of the crucified were broken?


The above will clarify if you are arguing for argument sake or you are doing an intelligent rebuttal!





THIS IS CRUCIAL: Please respond clearly to the Questions below
Let us for the sake of argument agree that Jesus was not crucified on the cross

1. Was it Allah that caused the delusion of the Jews and Romans to think that they are crucifying Jesus?
2. If the above is true, Is Allah a Just God by allowing a different person to be crucified in place of Christ Jesus?
3. Who was the replacement on the cross?
4. We can understand if Allah the Al-Makir decieved both the Jews and the Romans. Why did Allah decieve Mary the mother of Jesus, Mohammed the disciples of Jesus and all the followers of Jesus?
5. The Christians say that Jesus was taken to heaven in their presence After His resurrection. According to Islam, can who else was aware of the going to heaven of Jesus?