LordReed:


There are a finite number of humans on earth and not all of them are soldiers so why can't the army be numbered? Even if every human being on earth suddenly became a soldier that is still not uncountable.

Revelation 20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: THE NUMBER OF WHOM IS AS THE SAND OF THE SEA.

Ken4Christ:


Revelation 20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: THE NUMBER OF WHOM IS AS THE SAND OF THE SEA.

🤨

Revelations 20 does not mention a battle of Armageddon

7 When the 1000 years are ended, Satan will be made free from his prison.
8 He will go out to trick the nations in all the earth, the nations known as Gog and Magog. Satan will gather the people for battle. There will be more people than anyone can count, like sand on the seashore.
9 I saw Satan’s army march across the earth and gather around the camp of God’s people and the city that God loves. But fire came down from heaven and destroyed Satan’s army.
10 And he (the one who tricked these people) was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur with the beast and the false prophet. There they would be tortured day and night forever and ever. - Revelations 20 vs 7 - 10

Rather, the issue at Armaggedon is mentioned instead in Revelations 16.

Aemmyjah:



Armageddon means Mountain of Meggido
Everyone knows that everything in Revelation is symbolic
Blind cannot comprehend light
Physical minded man can't comprehend Bible truths
It mentions of a war between all the kings of the earth misled by Propaganda to wage war on God's people but God intervenes
If it were literal, the entire megiddo can't do that
There must be a reason why Megiddo was used especially what happens there


Again, what does science say about Environmental Armageddon? Hiw many seconds do you have towards midnight (complete devastation)

You making such claims about the watchtower which is not true shows you have problems
When a child is beaten by someone he underrates, he starts to throw stones
We've seen what atheists have resorted to doing seeing who beat their false intelligence. Resorting to lies 🤥
Now, unleash your 3 monikers to like and share your comments so you can be wise in your eyes. I leave the thread for you

Lol don't mind this guy. Only a foolish person would believe that a group that preach against war, military services and politics could also make huge investments in arms, guns and explosives company.

Kobojunkie:
Given what is written in the book of the Prophets along with that stated by Jesus Christ in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, coupled with that restated by John himself of God's final judgment of Israel(and Judah) to take place, it is more than likely John wrote his book of revelation prior to the end in 70AD. The story that it was instead written in 95AD or 98AD is not based on facts.

Your assumption is very wrong
He couldn't have been exiled in 70CE
It also has nothing to do with the prophecies by other writers because those prophecies were two-fold and they applied to Jerusalem and the world at large. While Revelation, apart from the admonition Jesus gave to the 7 congregations, he gave signs about things that would happen 'ij the Lord's day'.
Based Revelation 1:1,9, 10, scholars assume that the exile of John in Patmos could have taken place after the rule of Emperor Darmitian where persecution of Christians was at its peak

Aemmyjah:
■ Your assumption is very wrong.
■ He couldn't have been exiled in 70CE
■ It also has nothing to do with the prophecies by other writers because those prophecies were two-fold and they applied to Jerusalem and the world at large. While Revelation, apart from the admonition Jesus gave to the 7 congregations, he gave signs about things that would happen 'ij the Lord's day'.
■ Based Revelation 1:1,9, 10, scholars assume that the exile of John in Patmos could have taken place after the rule of Emperor Darmitian where persecution of Christians was at its peak

You do realize that you haven't said anything tangible here.

First of all, John said nothing about being exiled in Revelation 1, so where does your claim that he was "exiled" come from? He may have been in prison or he may have gone over to Patmos to visit some other folks or Christians. All he said said is that he was on Patmos for the sake of Jesus Christ. A simple enough statement.

2. The original detail provided by God of the end in Deuteronomy 28 beginning in verse 15 is two-fold in the manner you described. The punishment on Israel and then the punishment on the other Nations. That's what happened during the first exile -- of the Nation of Israel--- where God punished Israel and then later punished all those other nations including those which He used to punish Israel. The same pattern is observed during the second exile-- of the Nation of Judah. All of this related to the Old Law of Moses, final judgment mind you.

3. Nonsense claims!

Kobojunkie:
You do realize that you haven't said anything tangible here.

First of all, John said nothing about being exiled in Revelation 1, so where does your claim that he was "exiled" come from? He may have been in prison or he may have gone over to Patmos to visit some other folks or Christians. All he said said is that he was on Patmos for the sake of Jesus Christ. A simple enough statement.

2. The original detail provided by God of the end in Deuteronomy 28 beginning in verse 15 is two-fold in the manner you described. The punishment on Israel and then the punishment on the other Nations. That's what happened during the first exile -- of the Nation of Israel--- where God punished Israel and then later punished all those other nations including those which He used to punish Israel. The same pattern is observed during the second exile-- of the Nation of Judah. All of this related to the Old Law of Moses, final judgment mind you.

3. Nonsense claims!

The book of Revelation or Apocalypse contains events that will happen ij the Lord's day on Mankind and how God will bring to accomplishment his original purpose... Nothing spoken of about Jerusalem or Israel... What you're saying is your own interpretation which is very wrong

"I John, your brother and a sharer with you in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in company with Jesus, came to be in the isle that is called Patmos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus". ... That words allows that he was not there for a visit, his being there was not of his own accord . 'He, a sharer in tribulations and endurance ...came to be in Patmos because he was speaking about Jesus'
The Island at that time was desolate. Your own statement that he may have gone to visit some folks is out of it

There are other similar statements like this that is spoken about the disciples where they were recorded as speaking about the Christ and bearing witness but we're suffering unjustly...
Jerusalem was already destroyed... The visions describe Jehovah's judgement of the nations, events to happen during the end which includes the war between Michael and the dragon, the crowning of the Lamb on Mount Zion, the marriage of the lamb and the bride, the War of Armageddon, Restoration or paradise and the final test... Nothing mentioned about Jerusalem or fleshly Israel who have been forsaken already...

Aemmyjah:
■ The book of Revelation or Apocalypse contains events that will happen ij the Lord's day on Mankind and how God will bring to accomplishment his original purpose... Nothing spoken of about Jerusalem or Israel... What you're saying is your own interpretation which is very wrong
"I John, your brother and a sharer with you in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in company with Jesus, came to be in the isle that is called Patmos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus". ... That words allows that he was not there for a visit, his being there was not of his own accord . 'He, a sharer in tribulations and endurance ...came to be in Patmos because he was speaking about Jesus'
The Island at that time was desolate. Your own statement that he may have gone to visit some folks is out of it
There are other similar statements like this that is spoken about the disciples where they were recorded as speaking about the Christ and bearing witness but we're suffering unjustly...
Jerusalem was already destroyed... The visions describe Jehovah's judgement of the nations, events to happen during the end which includes the war between Michael and the dragon, the crowning of the Lamb on Mount Zion, the marriage of the lamb and the bride, the War of Armageddon, Restoration or paradise and the final test... Nothing mentioned about Jerusalem or fleshly Israel who have been forsaken already...

It seems you are simply able to regurgitate the same old tales you have been previously fed by others who are equally ignorant so I will leave you to it.

Kobojunkie:
You do realize that you haven't said anything tangible here.

First of all, John said nothing about being exiled in Revelation 1, so where does your claim that he was "exiled" come from? He may have been in prison or he may have gone over to Patmos to visit some other folks or Christians. All he said said is that he was on Patmos for the sake of Jesus Christ. A simple enough statement.

2. The original detail provided by God of the end in Deuteronomy 28 beginning in verse 15 is two-fold in the manner you described. The punishment on Israel and then the punishment on the other Nations. That's what happened during the first exile -- of the Nation of Israel--- where God punished Israel and then later punished all those other nations including those which He used to punish Israel. The same pattern is observed during the second exile-- of the Nation of Judah. All of this related to the Old Law of Moses, final judgment mind you.

3. Nonsense claims!

I wrongly mentioned assume
There are other writings about the times of the Apostles that were not recorded in the Bible and some were contemporaries of the Apostles... History points that John was exiled into Patmos around 94 or 95 CE but was later released and may have died in Ephesus

Aemmyjah:
■ I wrongly mentioned assume
There are other writings about the times of the Apostles that were not recorded in the Bible and some were contemporaries of the Apostles... History points that John was exiled into Patmos around 94 or 95 CE but was later released and may have died in Ephesus

Which history points to this? Provide source.

Kobojunkie:
It seems you are simply able to regurgitate the same old tales you have been previously fed by others who are equally ignorant so I will leave you to it.

I am not regurgitating any tale
If you like you leave it
You can't prove anything that John was in Patmos of his own accord. He, sharing in tribulation came to be in Patmos (a desolate island at the time). Why? Bearing witness about Jesus... I dropped several cross references to prove.

Aemmyjah:
■ I am not regurgitating any tale
If you like you leave it
You can't prove anything that John was in Patmos of his own accord. He, sharing in tribulation came to be in Patmos (a desolate island at the time). Why? Bearing witness about Jesus... I dropped several cross references to prove.

Dropped what cross reference? You simply reposted the same story you had previously been fed and called it a cross reference. Which kain nonsense be that?

Kobojunkie:
Which history points to this? Provide source.

They are there
Go and do research on John
Some of those who wrote about him were also Christians and some other historians

Aemmyjah:
■ They are there. Go and do research on John. Some of those who wrote about him were also Christians and some other historians

Christians my arse! Post source that directly links John to Patmos at the time in question or spare us this seemingly meaningless back-and-forth.

Kobojunkie:
Christians my arse! Post source that directly links John to Patmos at the time in question or spare us this seemingly meaningless back-and-forth.

They are everywhere
Why not go find out yourself
Interestingly, many Scholars today say Revelation book was written by another writer after the death of John at the end of the first century because the text was written around 100AD
Iraeneaus and Polycarp (who was trained by John himself)
Ignatius was another student of John
John Matyr too

1. Early tradition says that John was banished to Patmos by the Roman authorities. This tradition is credible because banishment was a common punishment used during the Imperial period for a number of offenses. Among such offenses were the practices of magic and astrology. Prophecy was viewed by the Romans as belonging to the same category, whether Pagan, Jewish, or Christian. Prophecy with political implications, like that expressed by John in the Book of Revelation, would have been perceived as a threat to Roman political power and order. Three of the islands in the Sporades were places where political offenders were banished. (Pliny, Natural History 4.69–70; Tacitus, Annals 4.30)

2. According to Tertullian (in The Prescription of Heretics) John was banished after being plunged into boiling oil in Rome and suffering nothing from it.


History points to the book of Revelation as written around 100AD. There is little dispute on that
It is also generally agreed that the writer of Revelation was banished or exiled in Patmos
While there are disputes on whether na Apostle John write am or someone else, the agreed thing is that it was written by someone banished or exiled in Patmos around the close of the first century (94-98CE). If you like, you dispute and say he went to visit some folks or to preach (a desolate island)

Aemmyjah:
■ They are everywhere. Why not go find out yourself
Interestingly, many Scholars today say Revelation book was written by another writer after the death of John at the end of the first century because the text was written around 100AD. Iraeneaus and Polycarp (who was trained by John himself) Ignatius was another student of John John Matyr too
1. Early tradition says that John was banished to Patmos by the Roman authorities. This tradition is credible because banishment was a common punishment used during the Imperial period for a number of offenses. Among such offenses were the practices of magic and astrology. Prophecy was viewed by the Romans as belonging to the same category, whether Pagan, Jewish, or Christian. Prophecy with political implications, like that expressed by John in the Book of Revelation, would have been perceived as a threat to Roman political power and order. Three of the islands in the Sporades were places where political offenders were banished. (Pliny, Natural History 4.69–70; Tacitus, Annals 4.30)
■ . According to Tertullian (in The Prescription of Heretics) John was banished after being plunged into boiling oil in Rome and suffering nothing from it.
History points to the book of Revelation as written around 100AD. There is little dispute on that
It is also generally agreed that the writer of Revelation was banished or exiled in Patmos
While there are disputes on whether na Apostle John write am or someone else, the agreed thing is that it was written by someone banished or exiled in Patmos around the close of the first century (94-98CE). If you like, you dispute and say he went to visit some folks or to preach (a desolate island)

1. You claim all those were students of John, so you shouldn't have any problems locating evidence directly connecting them, right? So get to work finding those particular documents

2. Use Google and find the exact page in the write up by Tertullian where he states that John was in fact exiled to Patmos during the period you mentioned.

Instead of reposting nonsense claims, get to work actually digging down to find the connecting thread to prove the claim you hold to.

Kobojunkie:
1. You claim all those were students of John, so you shouldn't have any problems locating evidence directly connecting them, right? So get to work finding those particular documents

2. Use Google and find the exact page in the write up by Tertullian where he states that John was in fact exiled to Patmos during the period you mentioned.

Instead of reposting nonsense claims, get to work actually digging down to find the connecting thread to prove the claim you hold to.

Have you heard of Iraeneaus
I shared from Iraeneaus, and notable Scholars and historians
You're free to hold on to your assumptions if you have nothing to show to prove.
Tertulian say John was exiled or banished but did not say where he was banished to but you agree that John was exiled to a place right ... So you want to pick a leaf from what Tertulian (a second century historian) wrote about John but ignore what Iraeneaus and Justin martyr wrote (both Christians)
Roman history speaks on why some persons are punished with banishment and 3 places where they are banished to. Can yu name them?

I guess you have searched through the internet and seen nothing to prove your point.
Revelation was written around the close of the 1st century (some argued it was written after) by a man exiled in Patmos

Aemmyjah:
■ Have you heard of Iraeneaus
I shared from Iraeneaus, and notable Scholars and historian. You're free to hold on to your assumptions if you have nothing to show to prove.
Tertulian say John was exiled or banished but did not say where he was banished to but you agree that John was exiled to a place right ... So you want to pick a leaf from what Tertulian (a second century historian) wrote about John but ignore what Iraeneaus and Justin martyr wrote (both Christians)
Roman history speaks on why some persons are punished with banishment and 3 places where they are banished to. Can yu name them?
I guess you have searched through the internet and seen nothing to prove your point.
Revelation was written around the close of the 1st century (some argued it was written after) by a man exiled in Patmos

1. You claim all those were students of John, so you shouldn't have any problems locating evidence directly connecting them, right? So get to work finding those particular documents

2. Use Google and find the exact page in the write up by Tertullian where he states that John was in fact exiled to Patmos during the period you mentioned.

Instead of reposting nonsense claims, get to work actually digging down to find the connecting thread to prove the claim you hold to.

Kobojunkie:
1. You claim all those were students of John, so you shouldn't have any problems locating evidence directly connecting them, right? So get to work finding those particular documents

2. Use Google and find the exact page in the write up by Tertullian where he states that John was in fact exiled to Patmos during the period you mentioned.

Instead of reposting nonsense claims, get to work actually digging down to find the connecting thread to prove the claim you hold to.

Oga
U can't prove your points as to the date of when John wrote Revelation
Neither can you show anything that he was not exiled in Patmos
Tertulian did not mention the name of where he was exiled to
John himself wrote he was in Patmos (a Roman penal colony and one of the islands where people are banished to especially for anything that has to do with sorcery, prophecy)... Patmos was desolate at the time
See what Tertulian wrote
"Since, moreover, you are close upon Italy, you have Rome, from which there comes even into our own hands the very authority (of apostles themselves). How happy is its church, on which apostles poured forth all their doctrine along with their blood; where Peter endures a passion like his Lord's; where Paul wins his crown in a death like John [the Baptist]'s; where the Apostle John was first plunged, unhurt, into boiling oil, and thence remitted to his island-exile." John was exiled to an island shey? Which Island did John himself say he' came to be' cos (like Paul) he was witnessing about Jesus? Patmos...
A commentatory says, 'If the story has any basis in fact, it is usually assumed to have taken place late in the reign of Domitian (81-96). The only book of the New Testament that directly covers congregations history, The Acts of the Apostles, ends in about 61.' but John was the last surviving Apostle. It is not generally believed that Apostle John wrote Revelation but it is widely accepted that Revelation writer was exiled in Patmos and the text was at the close of the first century.
John wrote Revelation ✅
John wrote in Patmos ✅
John was exiled in Patmos ✅
Revelation text is dated around the end of the 1st CE ✅
Iraeneaus confirms it too
Iraeneaus was also a historian of second century and claims to be a contemporary of the disciples and a Christian. You ignore that one
What about Justin Martyr and others?

Search Internet. You go find tire. No evidence
Truly I say unto thee, continue to de play and have a blissful weekend.

To those truly interested in learning fact from fable, a good reason would be Polycarp's supposed Epistle, Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians. While Iraeneaus claimed that Polycarp was a discple of John the Apostle, the epistle attributed to him reads more like a Mashup of quotes by Paul. Yes, Polycarp, from his letter turns out to be more a disciple of Paul than of John since most of the views and many of the phrases used in the epistle attributed to him -‐ Polycarp--- are exactly many of those found in Paul's various epistles.

I bet if one were to use AI to analyze the content of the supposed epistle written by Polycarp, to the epistles of Paul as well as the works of John, my claim would become even more evident that Polycarp, assuming he did in fact write the epistle that has his name on it was more a lover of Paul than a disple of John.

There isn't a single mention of the name John in the surviving epistle but somehow Iraeneaus seemed desperate to want use to believe that Polycarp was a disciple of John. Seems this Bishop of lyon(France) may not have been telling us the truth.

Kobojunkie:
To those truly interested in learning fact from fable, a good reason would be Polycarp's supposed Epistle, Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians. While Iraeneaus claimed that Polycarp was a discple of John the Apostle, the epistle attributed to him reads more like a Mashup of quotes by Paul. Yes, Polycarp, from his letter turns out to be more a disciple of Paul than of John since most of the views and many of the phrases used in the epistle attributed to him -‐ Polycarp--- are exactly many of those found in Paul's various epistles.

I bet if one were to use AI to analyze the content of the supposed epistle written by Polycarp, to the epistles of Paul as well as the works of John, my claim would become even more evident that Polycarp, assuming he did in fact write the epistle that has his name on it was more a lover of Paul than a disple of John.

Our point of argument is on
Patmos and when Revelation was written
No de shift goal post with such commentary
Even Tertulian, without mentioning Patmos confirm Revelation 1:9.
All agree that the writer of Revelation was in exile in Patmos (A Roman penal colony) about the end of first century. Shikena... It is generally agreed that it happened during the reign of emperor Domitian (81-96CE). John claiming he was in Patmos shows he was later released since Domitian died on 96CE, a year after his edict which really put the Christians in trouble, the height of their 'tribulation' in the first century . Although not stated in the Bible, history has it that he died in Ephesus. Conditions became Normal and there was peace because Rome had good emperors after Domitian died like Nerva and Trojan which probably had John released and Christianity flourished but later corrupted
In summary, Revelation was written by Apostle John, son of Zebedee and Salomi, around 96CE during his exile in the Isle of Patmos
Tertulian, Pliny, Iraeneaus, other Christian writers, modern scholars agreed. The only confusion today is on the writer of Revelation

An example of nonsense claim is saying John was in Patmos (a desolate island and Roman penal colony or prison for banished people) just for a visit to some folks or to preach there

All this apocalyptic messages don't scare us anymore.

Thanks to Modern Biblical scholarship to it's revolution as it overthrew the literalist views and interpretation of ancient texts wielded together in it's modern form(The Bible).

We're no longer at the mercy of religious leaders who'll threaten us with doomsday messages and try to make us cower in fear.

Those days are long gone. The field of Higher criticism has helped to examine those ancient texts in the context of the era being written not as an oracle of things that will manifest in the 21st century.

One thing you people don't understand is that Revelation is an apocalyptic literature. With bizarre descriptions and symbolisms.
It contains no hidden message or whatsoever or are you going to pretend that you've not seen the thousands of interpretations that the churches have ascribed to it for the past 1500 years

No wonder it was rejected multiple times by the church and was never admitted to the cannon until 1546 in the council of Trent. But still got rejected by John Calvin and Martin Luther.

So it's actually funny when people argue about a book written by a random guy in the late first century 😂😅😅😅😅

OgaNightmare:
All this apocalyptic messages don't scare us anymore.

Thanks to Modern Biblical scholarship to it's revolution as it overthrew the literalist views and interpretation of ancient texts wielded together in it's modern form(The Bible).

We're no longer at the mercy of religious leaders who'll threaten us with doomsday messages and try to make us cower in fear.

Those days are long gone. The field of Higher criticism has helped to examine those ancient texts in the context of the era being written not as an oracle of things that will manifest in the 21st century.

What is Apocalypse?

Aemmyjah:


What is Apocalypse?

Derived from the Greek word (apokálupsis- 'revelation, disclosure') is a literary genre in which a supernatural being reveals cosmic mysteries or the future to a human intermediary.
It may include dreams or visions about events like wars.

OgaNightmare:


Derived from the Greek word (apokálupsis- 'revelation, disclosure') is a literary genre in which a supernatural being reveals cosmic mysteries or the future to a human intermediary.
It may include dreams or visions about events like wars.

Exactly
Many think apocalypse sounds like a message of destruction

Revelation contains several symbols and signs, like a mystery of what will happen during the end

Aemmyjah:


what will happen during the end

existence will never end.

Maynman:

existence will never end.

Boss, I'm not talking about existence
Even existence differs according to context

Aemmyjah:


Boss, I'm not talking about existence
Even existence differs according to context

Universe simply means Existence, a Being.

You are reading a book with UNKNOWN AUTHORS and you are basing reality with it, think it through.

What if book of revelation eventually didn't make it to the Canon?
There was a time(hundred of years) it was not in it.

Maynman:

Universe simply means Existence, a Being.

You are reading a book with UNKNOWN AUTHORS and you are basing reality with it, think it through.

What if book of revelation eventually didn't make it to the Canon?
There was a time it was not in it.

Whether the authors are known or unknown is your own problem. It is the contents that matters
The Bible never said there will be an end to existence
... A generation is coming and a generation is going but the earth remains forever...
Generally, there are fears that mankind will be wiped out by nuclear or ecological Armageddon which is predicted by scientists and politicians
Bible says that millions will inherit this earth and live in it forever in perfect conditions. That is my hope and I believe trust, know, accept that it will come to be. So go and await nuclear or environmental Armageddon your people are preaching to you as your future.

On the second highlighted, atheists and critics with their useless assumptions?
What if God does not exist?
What if Jesus never exist?
What if life is a result of evolution
What if this?
What if that?

Continue with your stupid assumptions in the name of critically mindedness and false intelligence... Overly pessimism is not characteristic of intelligent humans. Whether it was there or it was not there, we have the scriptures available today to build our faith, draw us closer to God, learn and to understand God's thought for the future.

What if one plus one is not 2?
Abeg, create thread for atheists. Let's see and admire una 'intelligence'...

Maynman:

Universe simply means Existence, a Being.

You are reading a book with UNKNOWN AUTHORS and you are basing reality with it, think it through.

What if book of revelation eventually didn't make it to the Canon?
There was a time(hundred of years) it was not in it.

Go and worship Mr Universe and Mrs Universe
Lemme worship my God who brought the universe into existence. It is existence you call being?
Shey you said there's nothing like truth and that truth is relative
Allow my truth to worry me and stick to your truth