jaephoenix:

You absolutely have no idea about fallacies. You don't know what strawman is, neither do you know ad hominem.
Look who is talking about someone attacking another person. You are so obnoxious that even other christians hate you for it, never mind atheists. You cuss, abuse etc when nobody having a civil discourse

I am certainl you can see how now real you have spoken foolishly in jumping into a matter you lack the intelligence for most especially as the person I spoke to clearly got what I said and properly and reasonably addressed the issues i raised where you as usual, speak off point.

The guy is clearly an atheist yet he has properly held on to the rules of argument which you know nothing of except whatever understanding that you are able to glean from Google.

So as I have always told you, go amd learn how to argue properly.

cornelboy:

The mind doesn't exist because I can't see it 😂😂😂

😂

cornelboy:

Lol 😂😂😂

Imagine such comparison

Thorrn:

Just in case I missed it, spell it out and I'll do my best to address it.

Clearly I do know God is Real and most certainly exists and my first proof is simply on the ground that it is seen and clearly proven that it is impossible for a thing in this world to create itself.

Maynman:

Does your thoughts exist?

It doesn't. I can't see it.

cornelboy:

It doesn't. I can't see it.

Good.
And You also can't see "Vibration".

Maynman:

Good.
And You also can't see "Vibration".

Can you see it?

cornelboy:

Can you see it?

Can you see sound?

Where is your mind, show me

Maynman:

Can you see sound?

Where is your mind, show me

It doesn't exist cause I can't see it.

cornelboy:

It doesn't exist cause I can't see it.

Is sound and mind the same thing?

I said your mind does not exist, you said because you can't see it , it does not exist.

Are you normal?
You can't see sound nor vibration, yet they exist.

Maynman:

Is sound and mind the same thing?

I said your mind does not exist, you said because you can't see it , it does not exist.

Are you normal?
You can't see sound nor vibration, yet they exist.

Define what you meant by mind

cornelboy:

Define what you meant by mind

What is the "mind" that you know?
Check your dictionary na

Maynman:

What is the "mind" that you know?
Check your dictionary na

If it's in the dictionary then why were you asking me if it exists

cornelboy:

If it's in the dictionary then why were you asking me if it exists

The god Marduk is existing because it's in the dictionary 😂

Maynman:

The god Marduk is existing because it's in the dictionary 😂

Do you have a mind or not

cornelboy:

Do you have a mind or not

Where is the mind that you have

Maynman:

Where is the mind that you have

Do you have a mind?

cornelboy:

Do you have a mind?

No.
Where is the mind that you have?
The god Marduk is existing because it's in the dictionary?

Maynman:

No.
Where is the mind that you have?
The god Marduk is existing because it's in the dictionary?

You don't have "the capability for rational thoughts" or "ability to be aware of things or remember things"?

Thorrn:



Unfortunately for you, this quoted portion is a complete mischaracterization of the logical sequence of OP's original argument. Here, consider this preceding paragraph in the Aemmyjah's opening post:

Does God Exist?
The Bible’s answer
Yes, the Bible provides compelling evidence that God exists. It encourages us to build faith in God, not by blindly believing religious assertions, but by using our “power of reason” and “mental perception.” (Romans 12:1; 1 John 5:​20, footnote) Consider the following lines of reasoning based on the Bible:

It is very obvious from the foregoing passage that when Aemmyjah set out on his quest to establish the existence of his God, he was basing his arguments on the holy texts of his religion - the Bible. He confidently affirms that the Bible has the answer to the question of God's existence, so your claim that he was alluding to "facts outside the Bible" is entirely misleading because it would suggest that the Bible had no bearing on his initial arguments. However, in the context of this discussion, he was clearly using the Bible as a framework for his position.



There's no distractions, sorry. I went straight for the jugular of his post. The term "biblical evidence" can only be valid within the subtext of Christianity, not without. If you wish to prove that the Christian God undeniably exists, beyond the echoes within the walls of your church pews, you'll need to present evidence that can be verified (1) independently (2) empirically and (3) objectively. Your Bible doesn't meet any of the aforementioned criteria.

Moving on to the claims of an orderly, designed universe, I've also pointed out it's flaws numerous times already. Since I have enough time to spare, I'll indulge you once more. Aemmyjah is suggesting that the supposed "order" in the universe is proof that his God exists. So basically, he's merely rehashing the Teleological Argument (argument by design). For the sake of viewers who studied Logic in school, I'll attempt to steelman this argument using logical syllogism:

P1> The Universe has order, purpose and regularity.
P2> The presence of the aforementioned values show evidence of design.
P3> Such design implies a designer.
C> Therefore, this designer must be God.

Right from the start, we can already see the problems with P1 and P2. The vacuum of space, as commonly described by astrophysicists is anything but orderly or regular, at least going by the general understanding of those terms. Quasars and black hole collisions don't seem to have any inherent purpose. Baryonic matter which constitutes life, makes up less than 5 percent of all there is, and most of that is stellar clouds of materials. We're left with stars, and then far down the line is the leftovers that allow for planets and things like organisms. A paltry insignificant percentage.

More importantly, the preceding examples presume that we can even recognize design in the first place! The reason we think we can recognize design is because we have witnessed the design of cars, wristwatches, phones and so on. But nobody witnessed the inception of the universe, so assertions about what caused it to be can NOT be made with certainty. There is a difference between the perception of design and intentional design. Aemmyjah's arguments rise to little more than "look at that; it looks designed!". He is either relying on the assumption that something couldn't possibly happen by chance, due to incredibly long odds (which is an argument from incredulity fallacy) or stating there is no known explanation for the order we see other than purposeful design (which is an argument from ignorance fallacy). In light of these facts, P3 is completely invalidated as well.

Furthermore, even if we assumed that P1 through to 3 are indeed all correct, how exactly have you established that your God caused it, and he exists? We still have a non-sequitur; the premises are disconnected from the conclusion. At best, this argument would only serve apologetics for a deist (impersonal) god. Why can't I conclude that your argument proves the existence of Brahma or any other creator deities out there besides YHWH?



Wrong again. You're only demonstrating one of two things: (1) your incapability to understand simple grammatical syntax in English, or (2) your blatant and shameless dishonesty. Again, you should have included the paragraph preceding the one you quotemined out of context:

As you can see from the quote above, I already made the rebuttal before referencing budaatum's comments to back it up. It is not the same as relying on budaatum as the focal point of my argument. If you still can't tell the difference, then it's probably because you lack the intelligence to do so, and that's no fault of mine.



SMH. It always feels like supervising a kindergarten whenever one has a debate with you religious lot. Here, young child, let's take you back to school again:

An ad hominem would be using your character as justification for the invalidation of your entire position. I haven't done that here. I have provided direct counters to every single point you've both made in this thread. If you feel otherwise, I'm inviting you now to point out a legitimate argument you have made in this topic that I haven't made a valid counter to.

My rather harsh assessments of both you and Aemmyjah do not stem from outright prejudice. Rather, they stem from the nature of your argumentations. I have encountered you in particular in the past under a different sobriquet, so my statements about your character are valid conclusions I've reached following our past encounters. You've quotemined people, taking their statements out of context, made up bare faced lies and wilfully denied basic knowledge just to advance your cause. As for Aemmyjah, my assessment of his character is only reasonable given what I've parsed from his comments so far. He has shown that he lacks the wits or intelligence to get into a proper debate, and he refuses to acknowledge obvious flaws in his position, even after they've been pointed out time and time again.

I'm not saying You are stupid, therefore X is wrong.

I'm saying X is a stupid thing to do/say because of Y, therefore you're most likely stupid.

I'm not prejudging you, I'm judging you.



For the records, there's no such term as "ad homineming". And just so you know, it's statements just like this that make me question your level of education.



Like I said, if it helps you swallow your food with peace of mind, you're welcome to hold any opinion. But, I'm sure the more educated readers will be able to figure out who exactly can't hold his/her own in an intellectual discussion or make a single point without resorting to basic logical fallacies.

If you are truly a female, then this is the smartest female character on Nairaland. And I'm not a sexist.
I couldn't have handled the argument better than you

Aemmyjah:


1. Science does not even fully understand the formation of rain. It is a product of chance.
Another assumption you call fact is what you say about the human eye. The Great Ape had a simple eye shey? 😂


2. Simple question is this? DNA is a product of an accident. Yes or No?

1. Yes science understands rain so much scientists can create artificial rain. I'm sure you don't know that. So its not a product of chance. No, the Great Ape has complex eyes
2. <silence>

Aemmyjah:



Some acknowledge it
I did not drop it for anyone's Acknowledgement
Atleast, it is part of my convictions. I can drop 10 points
What of you? You dropped nothing but nonsense that makes sense to your feeble thinking
Who are you to judge me?


Besides, people like you that don't accept the existence of the Creator, it leaves you without reliable guidance and shows your life is meaningless and hopeless and purposeless . If your life is by accident, your existence has no purpose

Before christianity came, were peoples' lives 'hopeless, purposeless and meaningless'? Matter of fact were your own ancestors 'hopeless, purposeless and meaningless' ?

Aemmyjah:



Has evolution undergone fact-finding

Real question. DO YOU HAVE COMPREHENSION ISSUES? FOR REAL?
I just dropped facts plus how to go about proving the facts, complete with links for you to read. And you came up with if evolution has undergone fact finding?
WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCKERY?

Aemmyjah:



1. Teach same to Maynman as it seems you atheists are not even united in your beliefs

2 Evolution of multicellulars from unicellular? Issok

3. It's just as ridiculous as saying language evolved from grunts of animals. I'm not brainwashed to accept what is not proven fact

1. Teach what to Maynmann?
2. Did you even bother to read up any of those links?
3. The difference between you and I, is unlike you, I believe stuff that can be verified, by one and any time. You believe anything, and I mean anything, as long as its written in a book that has been found to tell lies, time and time again

Aemmyjah:


But they teach that in schools ?
🤔
Ok na

They teach it in school as a theory . They don't call it facts
There are many theories taught in school.

Aemmyjah:



You're the worst so-called doctor I've interacted with
Are you even sure you're a doctor?
Did I mention forces of labor?
I meant everything from fusion of gametes to childbirth. Who designed those process? You will not answer accident, you will not credit God. You will either say 'I don't know' OR 'I never said it was by accident'

1. I'm not here to discuss my profession with you. I'm simply waiting for the day you'll seek for my professional advice again like when you asked me about glaucoma, then I'll remind you I'm a quack

2. You made this statement
Or the organs and system and mechanism involved in childbirth?
Fake doctor has never heard that the process itself is sometimes called a miracle

What do you think the mechanisms and process in labor are called? And how do you think we doctors predict the outcome of labour or prognosticate the labor process?
They are called Forces of Labor. And I'm not inclined to explain them in details since you're so hung up that its a miracle.
I asked you a question who helps you digest food or form stool from food. I never heard anything from you about those processes.

cornelboy:

You don't have "the capability for rational thoughts" or "ability to be aware of things or remember things"?

So it's the mind that does it, I don't do it myself?

That means your god will need one...

Aemmyjah:


Teach Jaephoenix and come back to me
If the universe came by chaos (accident) , how's that part of it?
Jaephoenix is an atheist but does not agree
Educate him first cos you're jumping from existence to non existence to chaos
Makes no sense


Keep in mind that you're an evolutionists. Where evolution has failed to explain to you is not what you should throw at me

Convince Jaephoenix

Normally I'm supposed to answer this gibberish with silence(since I have answered this question severally in this thread alone but you keep on asking it)
I said I don't know how the universe came about.
You really are arrogantly dvmb

Aemmyjah:



Half learned men like Jaephoenix reject it
You dearly embrace it
Salutations to Maynman
The first and only person zealously advocating that chaos (syn disorder, disarray, confusion, disorganization, mess, shambles) could have brought about order, organization, complexity and everything in the universe.
Keep joking around
Oops! I seem to have dropped something from the dictionary that may have excited you or added evidence to your doctrine 😁
Maynman, Bishop of Chaos
Pls, keep preaching chaos

Whether na Chaos or Chance or Creator
Choose the letter C that is dear to you


Who taught you English that you exchange it for Randomness and unpredictability?
Abeg rest
Enjoy your day
Unleash your monikers to like and share your comments so you'll look smart to yourself

You completely left his point and went around talking gibberish. He proved to you that even your own bible said the earth came from chaos

Aemmyjah:



Why not question what science says?
🤷‍♂️
Science has not always been accurate tho

I do question medical science, and I still conclude it is right. We practice evidence-based medicine

jaephoenix:

You completely left his point and went around talking gibberish. He proved to you that even your own bible said the earth came from chaos

You wise.

Aemmyjah:


They did not create
They create

Which one you de?

You're the epitome of density.
Where did I state parents didn't create the children?