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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Does God Exist? (21561 Views)
Is There A Way To Prove God Exist Apart From The Scripture? / There’s No Evidence That Your God Exist / Even If God Exist, It Can’t Be The Christian God. (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Does God Exist? by jaephoenix(m): 12:28am On Nov 12, 2023 |
cornelboy:That's all you say? |
Re: Does God Exist? by jaephoenix(m): 12:34am On Nov 12, 2023 |
cornelboy:You still don't get it. You have been yammering about an 'Intelligent designer' for days now. How this designer creates life etc. Now I have put told you some of his babies are lethal to their mothers, and what's more, he knows the babies can kill their mothers but he still put those babies in the wombs. Now you're telling me there must be a mistake. If there is a mistake, its obviously your 'intelligent designer' that made it Im using the 'pregnancy abnormalities' to prove one of your premises is false. And that premise is the intelligent designer 1 Like |
Re: Does God Exist? by jaephoenix(m): 12:36am On Nov 12, 2023 |
Aemmyjah:Jesus. You really are a work of art. I now understand what Thorrn is talking about. When you're defeated, you start throwing around all sorts of lies, hoping one would stick. Just like a dying cow spraying feces when its throat is slit 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by 1Sharon(f): 12:39am On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: ☺️😘 |
Re: Does God Exist? by jaephoenix(m): 1:00am On Nov 12, 2023 |
Emusan:I said I didn't hear it the first time. Did it occur to you it may be due to phone volume ish, noisy environment, multitasking etc. You're just quick to jump into conclusions. Yes he's a dude, any problem? So any phenomena that is beyond human comprehension is divinity? Are you aware formation of rainfall, lightning etc were all attributed to gods(just like you are attributing this to your own god) before science stepped in to cure us of the ignorance? And no, its not beyond me. The specimen in those videos are what we studied in third year med school under Embryology and Genetics(as a course in Human Anatomy). So even though it may look amazing to you, it's just regular stuff for me. In fact I had to fast forward much of that video cos I have seen it many times during med school(probably the reason why I didn’t hear the divinity shit you talked about). Thus its not beyond my comprehension. And yes he made a mistake. Please check out embryological developmental errors. This link should help you https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-34294-6 Its obvious you don't understand evolution and embryology. Evolution explains how organisms change over time. Meaning takes years, centuries before appreciable changes are noticed. Embryology is the study how a fetus is formed from a spermatozoa and ovum. It occurs less than 9 months. Changes are noticed immediately. Evolution isn't meant to explain all of embryology, only some parts. Now humans grow tails while in utero. Is this true or false? And why do you think so? I want you to answer that before I continue. Thank you. Please don't dodge it. And dont tell me its not related to this debate, because it is. 100% 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by jaephoenix(m): 1:01am On Nov 12, 2023 |
Dtruthspeaker:ok. If you say so 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by jaephoenix(m): 1:30am On Nov 12, 2023 |
cornelboy: 1. Why do you keep on throwing up this Special Pleading Fallacy? Who created this designer? If you said he popped up from thin air or eternal, why can't the earth be eternal? 2. Maybe you've not been reading this thread, so lemme give you the benefit of doubt. I SAID I DONT KNOW HOW THE EARTH CAME ABOUT , BUT IF YOU MUST GIVE ME YOUR EXPLANATION, BACK IT UP WITH FACT Even if it was created, how do you know it was your favorite sky daddy? 3. As far back as 1960 when I'm sure you werent born, scientists created an artificial cell. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cell#:~:text=In%20the%201960s%20Thomas%20Chang,compartments%20made%20from%20artificial%20materials. These days human babies can even be made de novo in the lab! De novo means afresh. Those researches had to be restricted because of ethical and other issues. In fact some religious nutjobs demonstrated when it was announced. 4. Can you explain Life itself is a miracle undoubtedly. ? 5. 97-99% of scientists believe in evolution. So I don't even know where you get your lies from. The overwhelming majority of biologists accept evolution. Those who know professionally the evidence for evolution cannot deny it. Scientists agree that the evolutionary origin of animals and plants is a scientific conclusion beyond reasonable doubt. Of course there would be naysayers. Every profession has it. For example, the covid pandemic exposed the disagreement amongst medical professions. A tiny fraction of physicians believe Covid vax caused more harm than good, even though there is overwhelming evidence. Would you say Covid vax is debatable? Some also believe hydrochoroquinine (HCQ) can cure it(even though it wasn't proven). There are even a branch of biologist known as evolution biology. Fossils back up these evolutionary points. Would you say the fossils are lies? So evolution isn't a theory, but 100% FACTS. 6. A theist that believes that Yahweh popped outta thin air, created man outta mud and woman outta a rib says evolution is a scam. Whoa. Have you studied the fossils of human ancestors? No. Yet you are sure its a scam. 7. About belief, all you said is funny. What has all you said gotta do with your faith as a Christian? 1 Like |
Re: Does God Exist? by jaephoenix(m): 1:40am On Nov 12, 2023 |
cornelboy:The bolded shows you don't even understand the evolution of the thumb. We never said humans didn’t have thumbs. We said it evolved. Meaning it wasn't like this before 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Dtruthspeaker: 5:34am On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: See the intelligence I always said you lacked? You asked about proof of God, I answered and now because you have nothing to say, you left the post to go to an imaginative issue. And you think you are more intelligent than a kindergarten child. |
Re: Does God Exist? by Dtruthspeaker: 5:40am On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: Says the fool wearing coke bottties for gllasses. |
Re: Does God Exist? by cornelboy(f): 7:39am On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix:Oh shape shifting 🙃 |
Re: Does God Exist? by jaephoenix(m): 8:07am On Nov 12, 2023 |
Dtruthspeaker:You clearly wrote there something cannot create itself. So with that premise, who created god? If u say he cannot be created, why do you think the earth can be created? 1 Like |
Re: Does God Exist? by jaephoenix(m): 8:08am On Nov 12, 2023 |
Dtruthspeaker:… and you resort to abuse when you're clearly caught out |
Re: Does God Exist? by jaephoenix(m): 8:10am On Nov 12, 2023 |
cornelboy:Have you ever looked at me skulls of ancient humans like Homo Erectus etc? Do they look like ours (Homo Sapiens)? Would you call it shape shifting? |
Re: Does God Exist? by Image123(m): 12:31pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: Not just good, next time read carefully and stop misrepresenting or deliberately misunderstanding me. i will ignore it because it is none of my business; in other words, i don't care. It is of no value, relevance, or advantage to me if he did anything to the moon. Why would i engage in a baseless and useless argument over nothing? i am more than satisfied with what i have. |
Re: Does God Exist? by Thorrn(f): 12:58pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
Aemmyjah: Dropping points isn't a big deal. I readily understood your points. What matters is the establishment of the the validity or objective correctness of those points. In this case, it seems as though you're more concerned with rhetorical assertions than actually engaging in a bidirectional conversation. You have continuously failed to offer any sort of credible defense to your acclaimed points. You can't expect to publish a post like this on a public forum and expect people to gobble up your shite without the tiniest bit of skepticism. The Bible unlike the books you mentioned is not a myth The Bible itself isn't a myth. It's a tangible collection of old texts. I would prefer to call it a historical fiction document in the same vein as Abe Lincoln: Vampire Hunter which isn't that much different from a myth since they both share one thing in common - the events written in them are entirely fictional. That being said, using the Bible as proof that God exists is problematic because the Bible itself makes the same claim in rhetorical fashion. as places people, events mentioned in it as historical. Abraham Lincoln, one of the foremost presidents of the USA was the titular character in the Vampire Hunter book mentioned above, and he hunted vampires. So I guess going by your logic, vampires have been proven to exist? What is says regarding science like the, the law of gravity, DNA, shape of the Earth and the earth not been supported by anything is accurate even when science and the common people were saying something different. This paragraph in particular is the most nonsensical arrangement of words you've stringed together since you started this unfortunate thread, and that's not a mean feat. How did you measure the accuracy of the Bible's claims to determine that they were correct even in instances where SCIENCE is "saying something different" according to you? The fact that you claim to agree with basic scientific concepts - not because of science itself but because of your holy book of fairy tales is biggest indicator that you have brainwashed effectively by your religious leaders, to the point of intellectual handicap. You mentioned the law of gravity >>> I don't see what's impressive about the writers of the Bible knowing about gravity. Even animals knew about gravity. Sadly, knowing about something is not synonymous with having an understanding for it. The Greeks of Thales school in Miletus had a theory of atoms due to Democritus which proposed that things were made of atoms, most of whose natural motion was toward the enter of world (the knew the Earth was a sphere). Aristotle also used this "natural motion" theory applied to different substances. It wasn’t until Galileo and Newton that there was any real theory of gravity. Newton's great contribution was not only that he gave a mathematical formula for gravity, he realized that the same thing that makes an apple fall on Earth is what makes the planets move around the Sun. Before Newton, it was commonly assumed that the Earth was imperfect and corrupt and that above the dome of the stars was a different world of perfection. Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for teaching that the stars were other worlds like ours when Galileo was 36yrs old and 42yrs before Newton was born. SCIENCE established the universal law of gravity. You mentioned DNA >>> The claim that the Bible talks about the DNA is inaccurate and misleading. The Bible mostly focused on inheritance, lines of inheritance and genealogies. DNA is chemical nomenclature. The idea of "genes" as something that could be inherited preceded the knowledge that a particular chemical compound called DNA was the substrate that made genes possible. The writers of the Bible didn't understand it to that extent. It was SCIENCE that established the concept of the DNA. You mentioned the shape and position of the earth >>> I find it interesting that you highlight this because not only is the Bible rife with contradictory assertions pertaining to the Earth's shape, it also notes in several passages that sun moves about a stationary earth - a claim that has been established to be an outright falsehood. You're walking on very thin ice if you seriously think you can just undermine the reliability and/or achievements of the scientific method because you only care about the stories told in your religious text. What it predicted about the future was accurate and happened. Okay. Then go ahead and give examples of such predictions. I triple dare you. And by examples I don't mean the typical post hoc rationalization you religious fanatics are accustomed to. Give me examples of detailed and specific predictions in the Bible that have come to pass. They should not be vague or ambiguous. Before you mention other books, investigate them to see if they have such characteristics Brushing aside the fact that they are actually inaccurate, the acclaimed "characteristics" you are hoisting up here as definitive proof of the Bible's validity are ultimately nothing more than your subjective preferences. There are a plethora of religions out there that lay claim to more depth and/or capacity for enlightenment than Christianity. Other prominent religions including Islam, Hinduism etc have their own peculiar selling points which they believe makes their religion superior to yours. Hell, even within Christianity, the story of creation as described by the Gnostics is more scientifically accurate than the Orthodox version (story of Genesis)! The universe is a wonder of design, order, organization. I will ask again for the umpteenth time: how do you recognize design? Olodo like you, poor debater like you says there are instances where universe does not show orderliness. If yu go to a house and see that some parts of it are not in order,you'll conclude the house had no builder. Your analogy is irrelevant and baseless given that a typical house does not share the same properties with our known universe. Yet another demonstration of your complete cluelessness as pertaining to the debate. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for you to show me (1) how you measure or recognize design, and (2) how order in the universe proves only the existence of the Christian deity YHWH, as opposed to the existence of Zeus, Brahma, Ahura Mazda etc Poor, low IQ individual. With this kind of thinking, you're passing judgment on me? Publish the results na You mean the results about atheists having meaningful lives? I don't have to. Pew Research already published it half a decade ago. But I understand - you were too busy learning about talking snakes in Sunday School. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/12/06/10-facts-about-atheists/ Open that link and give it a good read when you're chanced. But I'd advise you to bring along a box of tissues so that you can at least weep in a dignified manner. If your own reverse brain tells you that everything ij the Natural world came to be by a mindless process, it is your own problem. If you can't provide the quote where I made the assertion @bold even after multiple requests, then I wonder what your true motives are in this discussion. Did Jesus die so that you can tell treacherous lies on his behalf? If you reject the that everything including life has no designer, you should accept that your existence is really meaningless, useless and purposeless and without direction or hope. That's not how logic works, unfortunately. And based on the Pew Research article cited earlier, it is safe to say that you are, in fact, out of touch with the reality itself. Not that I'm surprised. After all you've implicitly admitted in this very post that you are all too willing to throw facts and reason into the garbage as long as they are not in congruence with your infantile beliefs. Your shamelessness is beyond human understanding. What I mentioned is not directed towards Christians. I see. So I'm guessing you were targeting non-believers in your OP? Well then, as an atheist, permit me to give you a little hint in the future when next you come across a non-believer: if you want to prove to a non-believer that God/s exist, you'd have much better luck if you didn't present the Bible as your primary evidence. What you'll need is objective, independent and empirical evidence to establish the existence of any gods to a non-believer. Religious people do not reject the existence of the Creator. Yes, and water is wet. I presented extra biblical points. Make up your mind, genius. Are you using the Bible as the basis for your arguments or not? You can't claim the Bible has THE answer to the question of God's existence and then allude to "extra biblical" evidence in the same breath. Are the answers in the Bible or not? Are your arguments true because they are accurate, or because they're in the Bible? If you attack me for saying that God exists when we perceive what is made, what then is your own argument? Why must I have a counter argument? Your own argument does not need my counter argument to stand on its own two feet. If it does, then it never merited any consideration in the first place. Abi na your Papa I suppose credit? Maybe! My dad might have indeed created the universe . Stop reasoning from your bottom Better to reason with my bottom than to not reason at all. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Thorrn(f): 1:02pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: Sounds like a rap verse when read out loud . 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Thorrn(f): 1:06pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: Ha. Please don't. I'm no more intelligent than you. I just love taking my time to rebut their inane statements when I get the chance. It's the dimwittedness of people like Aemmyjah that makes us look like geniuses . 3 Likes |
Re: Does God Exist? by Thorrn(f): 1:08pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: These guys don't realize how stupid they look or sound when they resort to desperate tactics like lying or handwaving obvious facts. They're not interested in truth, they just want to win arguments. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by jaephoenix(m): 1:09pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
Image123:Ok. That's the same way I feel. I shouldn't have engaged you. So I'm sorry for asking you to prove soul and spirit exists. Promise to ignore your posts 2 Likes |
Re: Does God Exist? by Thorrn(f): 1:10pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
Dtruthspeaker: Sounds like a non-sequitur to me. How does something not having the capacity to create itself provide conclusive proof that God exists? Going by your logic, God must have been created by something then? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Emusan(m): 1:17pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: The truth is you lied he didn't mentioned Divinity. So accept that first. Yes he's a dude, any problem? Yes! The problem is, you think is like a random guy of yours on Nairaland. With that 'DUDE' Meanwhile, this is a professor who work with a Nobel prize winner for designing MRI. So any phenomena that is beyond human comprehension is divinity? Are you aware formation of rainfall, lightning etc were all attributed to gods(just like you are attributing this to your own god) before science stepped in to cure us of the ignorance? So can you produce just one single sperm cell from lab without getting it from a woman? [quotAnd no, its not beyond me. The specimen in those videos are what we studied in third year med school under Embryology and Genetics(as a course in Human Anatomy).[/quote] But you can't produce the process without getting the first cells from human. Can you? So it's still beyond your comprehension. So even though it may look amazing to you, it's just regular stuff for me. It's still beyond your human comprehension. If you disagree, produce the first sperm cell and egg cell let them become human. In fact I had to fast forward much of that video cos I have seen it many times during med school(probably the reason why I didn’t hear the divinity shit you talked about). Thus its not beyond my comprehension. And yes he made a mistake. Please check out embryological developmental errors. This link should help you https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-34294-6 Yet you could ask "Did it occur to you it may be due to phone volume ish, noisy environment, multitasking etc.?" You're a very dishonest person. Its obvious you don't understand evolution and embryology. I do. Evolution explains how organisms change over time. Meaning takes years, centuries before appreciable changes are noticed. And sperm cell and egg cell have been doing this BILLIONS TIMES, why there no appreciable changes? Embryology is the study how a fetus is formed from a spermatozoa and ovum. It occurs less than 9 months. Changes are noticed immediately. And this process is beyond human comprehension Evolution isn't meant to explain all of embryology, only some parts. Now humans grow tails while in utero. Is this true or false? And why do you think so? I want you to answer that before I continue. Even "some parts" is still a lie. Yet you claim to be guru How can you say human grow tails? Anything growth means it's increasing in size. Caudal eminence isn't growing. |
Re: Does God Exist? by Aemmyjah(m): 1:19pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
Thorrn: Fools If you belive that there was no Creator Fine for you But it leaves your life without meaning and purpose |
Re: Does God Exist? by Aemmyjah(m): 1:21pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: Your epistle is too long to read You said that even animals know the law of gravity There was a time when humans did not even know about the laws of gravity When your brain is not working 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Aemmyjah(m): 1:22pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: Schooling who? Did you see the conversation between him and SIRTee15 about smoke and aroma? And the historicity of Jesus? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Aemmyjah(m): 1:23pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: 1. Will you pay me to show you? Kindly check the internet 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Aemmyjah(m): 1:23pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: Sophia or Sophia existence has a purpose. Yes or No? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Aemmyjah(m): 1:24pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: Oga Drop evidence Have you ever seen me drop links? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Aemmyjah(m): 1:25pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix:1.... 2. Drop something everyone can see 3. No evidence... 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Aemmyjah(m): 1:26pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: Natural laws and scientific theories can be demonstrated using the scientific approach? Where? In your home? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Aemmyjah(m): 1:27pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
jaephoenix: 1. Olodo 2. Ask your wife or mum if labor was easy. Quacko 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Does God Exist? by Aemmyjah(m): 1:27pm On Nov 12, 2023 |
1 Like 1 Share |
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