damilola4162:

A Christian is not someone who attends church meetings or someone born in a Christian home. A Christian is someone who has believed(convinced) in the resurrection of Christ Jesus from the dead. This person is saved from eternal condemnation.

But everyone born in a Christian home by virture of the fact that they were brought up by their Christian parents to believe, and everyone attending church meetings have believed in the resurrection of Christ Jesus that's why they are there.
otherwise they will be in mosques being Muslims and not believing in Christ.
Or they will be atheists not going to church at all.
Or they will be traditionalists being in shrines and not church.

Have you ever consider that Faith is what justifies to eternal life. and your faith is your religion?

damilola4162:
😂 and you desperately need to see light of the gospel...

You mean the lies of Christianity, right?

paxonel:
But everyone born in a Christian home by virture of the fact that they were brought up by their Christian parents to believe, and everyone attending church meetings have believed in the resurrection of Christ Jesus that's why they are there.
otherwise they will be in mosques being Muslims and not believing in Christ.
Or they will be atheists not going to church at all.
Or they will be traditionalists being in shrines and not church.

Have you ever consider that Faith is what justifies to eternal life. and your faith is your religion?

.

I was born into a Christian home and usually go to church meetings but was never a (Christian) saved until I was in my early 20s. Many people are like me up till now.

Many people go to church in Nigeria just to table their problems before God alone, the gospel is really being preached in most churches. The reason some people go to church is to do money doubler– they pay tithes so that God can (return) bless them in multiple folds this is the reason some are faithful to paying tithe.

damilola4162:
.

I was born into a Christian home and usually go to church meetings but was never a (Christian) saved

the question one will ask is, who is then a Christian?

Because, many of us not knowing who a Christian should be, is causing confusion in Christianity

until I was in my early 20s. Many people are like me up till now.

Many people go to church in Nigeria just to table their problems before God alone, the gospel is really being preached in most churches. The reason some people go to church is to do money doubler– they pay tithes so that God can (return) bless them in multiple folds this is the reason some are faithful to paying tithe.

actually,these are secondary reasons why people go to church.

In church, you can never see for example devoted Muslims there.
Everyone you see in church were either born into Christian homes and were brought up by Christian parents to be Christians and churchgoers, or they were preached to, and were converted from their previous religion, example Islam, into Christianity.
This is the primary reason that you see people in churches.

With this fact in mind, the question is, who is a Christian?

paxonel:
the question one will ask is, who is then a Christian?

Because, many of us not knowing who a Christian should be, is causing confusion in Christianity
actually,these are second a reasons why people go to church.

In church, you can never see for example devoted Muslims there.
Everyone you see in church were either born into Christian homes and were brought up by Christian parents to be Christians and churchgoers, or they were preached to, and were converted from their previous religion, example Islam, into Christianity.
This is the primary reason that you see people in churches.

With this fact in mind, the question is, who is a Christian?

I get you sir, I a lane man term a Christian is someone who believe in the resurrection of Jesus. By believing his resurrection you acknowledge that he is the Christ.

damilola4162:


I get you sir, I a lane man term a Christian is someone who believe in the resurrection of Jesus. By believing his resurrection you acknowledge that he is the Christ.

then everyone in all churches have done this, irrespective of their ignorance or knowledge or sin level or righteousness

paxonel:
then everyone in all churches have done this, irrespective of their ignorance or knowledge or sin level or righteousness

okay

Kobojunkie:
Stop quoting in ignorance...

---

For all(the evil people) have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God - Paul

In Romans 3 vs 10 - 18 Paul quotes from various parts of scripture in his attempt to explain to his brethren that they were in fact the wicked and evil generation to the destroyed by God. Yes, at that point in time, God's plan was to destroy the rest of Israel — the Nation of Judah aka the Jews— and that plan was heralded by the coming of Jesus Christ. Below, we see that what Paul wrote in that passage was of the evil people who were against God.

■ Romans 3 vs 10 - 12 quotes Psalm 53 where David writes about the evil people who do terrible things.
The above passage clearly says that this prophecy was said of the evil people aka the fools who convinced themselves that God does not exist. You know this from reading verse 4 where God highlights the way evil people treat His people.
■ Romans 3 vs 13 a Paul references David's prayer against his enemies found in Psalm 5

■ Romans 3 vs 13 b quotes from Psalm 140 where David prays to God regarding the evil people

■ Romans 3 vs 15 quotes from Proverbs 1 which is a warning against evil people

■ Romans 3 vs 16 - 17 references Isaiah's writing on the state of the evil people, whose sins separate them from God

■ Romans 3 vs 18 references Psalm 18 where David writes of the evil people and the workings of their minds.

As you can see, every single passage of Scripture that was quoted by Paul in that context was written in reference to people who do evil — the unrighteous. And of course, there are none righteous among the evil people for they have all sinned. After establishing his focus in the earlier verses, the evil people i.e. the unrighteous, in verses 19-20 Paul reiterates that the curse on the unrighteous cannot be removed right by the Law(of Moses) — they cannot be made righteous by following the Old Law.

In verse 21, Paul then posits that God has provided for the unrighteous(evil people) a path to redemption by which they can be made righteous and that path is the New Law(The Good News). Paul insists that God makes the unrighteous people righteous through their faith in Jesus Christ and He does so for all those who believe in Jesus Christ, verse 22. Again, Paul insists in verse 23 that all(the evil people aka unrighteous) have sinned and come short of the glory of God and can only be made righteous by following, not the old Law, but the new Law which offers the free gift of grace(Eternal Life). Paul also insists that the unrighteous are able to become righteous in God by becoming free from their sins through Jesus Christ. In verses 25-26, Paul then recapped by saying that God gave Jesus Christ a way to forgive the sins of people — the unrighteous aka sinners whom He came to call to repentance — by way of what Paul refers to as the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

In all, the primary audience or focus of Paul's writing in Roman 3 were the unrighteous sinners in the land, ignoring the righteous people who equally existed at the time. As a matter of fact, at the time of Paul's writing of this epistle, the other disciples of Jesus Christ were probably righteous given they already obtained the Spirit of Truth for a companion long before this. Paul in no way meant this to say that there were absolutely no righteous individuals in the land. Rather, he focused his message on those who were listed as unrighteous and remained under God's curse from the Old Law, and yet to be set free from slavery to sin by Jesus Christ.

According to Mr Junkie
Bible says that all wicked people have sinned

damilola4162:
You just coated out of context sir, the sin that all committed is different from what we define as sin now.

I dunno your own problem
Why do you tag me
I made a reply to righteousness and not you
You went and report me to admin
What did I say

Is that what you do to everyone that does not seem to support you?

Aemmyjah:


According to Mr Junkie
Bible says that all wicked people have sinned

I see...so none of the other passages are in fact found in your Bible? Interesting

Kobojunkie:
I see...so none of the other passages are in fact found in your Bible? Interesting

If we make the statement, “We have no sin,” we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us.  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  If we make the statement, “We have not sinned,” we are making him a liar, and his word is not in us

John was addressing wicked people shey?

Aemmyjah:
■ If we make the statement, “We have no sin,” we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  If we make the statement, “We have not sinned,” we are making him a liar, and his word is not in us

John was addressing wicked people shey?

Always pay attention to the Context. From what John himself wrote,and with knowledge of what Jesus Christ Himself said of these things, you would know those who John wrote those words to. When you pull verses out of context to give them a meaning separate and different from that declared in Scripture and intended by the author, you merely create a lie..

Kobojunkie:
Always pay attention to the Context. From what John himself wrote,and with knowledge of what Jesus Christ Himself said of these things, you would know those who John wrote those words to. When you pull verses out of context to give them a meaning separate and different from that declared in Scripture and intended by the author, you merely create a lie..

If we make the statement, “We have no sin,” we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we make the statement, “We have not sinned,” we are making him a liar, and his word is not in us

Who is the 'we'?
Was he addressing wicked people
I only dropped a verse

Aemmyjah:
Who is the 'we'?
Was he addressing wicked people
I only dropped a verse

What part of the if...else. statement you have in bold do you have a problem with grasping?

Kobojunkie:
What part of the if...else. statement you have in bold do you have a problem with grasping?

That's why I asked you if John was writing to wicked people

Aemmyjah:
■ That's why I asked you if John was writing to wicked people

Aemmyjah:

■ If we make the statement, “We have no sin,” we are misleading ourselves and the truth is not in us.
■ If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
■ If we make the statement, “We have not sinned,” we are making him a liar, and his word is not in us

From the preceding verses in the passage you lifted this from, John makes clear he speaks of those who claim to believe in Jesus Christ.

---

□ of those who make this claim, he then said those among them who say they do not sin do not have Jesus Christ (the Truth) living inside of them.
□ Those who unlike the first group acknowledge their sins --- Jesus Christ lives inside of them---- who confess them to God have assurance from God that He will forgive them and cleanse them from all unrighteousness.
□ those who say such things as "we have not sinned" , make a liar of God and God's Word , Jesus Christ does not live inside of them.

---

John's writing was not in reference to the "wicked people"spoken of in the book of Psalms and referenced by Paul. John instead directed his writing to those who proclaimed belief in Jesus Christ. We see this from John continually weighing those he wrote of to that spoken of by Jesus Christ.

Long story....or what is it you Nigerians say "tales by moonlight". Do not be deceived. Here is a true biblical follower of Christ:

A true follower of Christ is first:

1. One who confess with mouth and believe in his/her heart that Christ is "LORD". Emphasis on LORD, which brings me to second stage:

2. One who genuine believer is [b]living righteous and holy life. Abstaining from sin. Abiding in Christ. Obeying HIS ALL of HIS commandments.


Word of advice to "Christians" by Name only: Do not be a hypocrite, for YHVH despises hypocrisy.

IF you claim to be a believer:

1. REPENT & BEAR FRUIT MEET FOR REPENTANCE (1 John 1:9, 2 Peter 3:9, Acts, 2:38, Matt 3:8
2. Your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees (Matt 5:17-20).
3. Live Holy & righteous (Hebrews 12:14, Matt 5:17-20, 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:5, Rev 22:15)
4. Keep HIS commandments (Matt 19:17)
5. Stay in faith, endure and overcome. Don't take the mark (2 Tim 2:7-8, Matt 24:13, Rev 14:9-11)

damilola4162:
A Christian is not someone who attends church meetings or someone born in a Christian home. A Christian is someone who has believed(convinced) in the resurrection of Christ Jesus from the dead. This person is saved from eternal condemnation.

Romans 10: 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

John 11:25-26

25: Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


The most important thing from the above texts is to believe in Jesus. What will you believe about him to be a Christian? you have to believe in his resurrection and by that you have acknowledge him as the messaih.

This is the only message of the Bible and the only way by which someone can be a Christian. A Christian is the same as being born again and means born again Christian– these are human terms used to describe a believer.

This is the only thing that makes someone a Christian, believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Let's check from the old testament writings to show that someone ONLY has to believe in the resurrection of Christ to be saved (a Christian)

Abraham believed in the resurrection of Jesus Christ as a promise and that was why he tried to sacrifice his son to God. He believed that God will surely raise his son, even he kill him.
He wasn't going to the alter with the mindset of killing and roasting his son.

Genesis 5:22

He(Abraham) said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.”

From the above text it's clear that Abraham who intend to kill his son told his servant he will return with his son.

Let's see how the author of Heberws explained this for better understanding:

Hebrews 11:17-19
17: By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18: Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

The son of Abraham was a figure of Jesus Christ.

Let's move to Noah and the ark.

In the days of Noah everyone who believed his preaching and entered into the ark were saved while those who didn't believe were outside and the all died(perished). The ark symbolize Jesus Christ– anyone who believe in his resurrection is saved.

The day of Jonah in the belley of the fish:

Matthew 12: 40

40: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jonah spent three days and three nights in the stomach of the fish the same way Jesus Christ spent three days and nights in the tomb.

All of the scenarios explained above are just to point to that to fact that, to be a Christian you have to believe in the resurrection of Jesus and by this you have acknowledge that he is the messiah.

Jesus explained the same thing to his deciples after he resurrected from the dead.

Luke 24:45-47

45: Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46:And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47:And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48: And ye are witnesses of these things.

Paul told the same thing to Timothy:

2 Timothy 3:15

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Faith here means believing in the resurrection of Jesus.

Therefore to be a Christian you have to believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead not only believing in him as one of those sent by God. You have to believe in your heart that he is Christ, the Messaih.

Kobojunkie:
From the preceding verses in the passage you lifted this from, John makes clear he speaks of those who claim to believe in Jesus Christ.

---

□ of those who make this claim, he then said those among them who say they do not sin do not have Jesus Christ (the Truth) living inside of them.
□ Those who unlike the first group acknowledge their sins --- Jesus Christ lives inside of them---- who confess them to God have assurance from God that He will forgive them and cleanse them from all unrighteousness.
□ those who say such things as "we have not sinned" , make a liar of God and God's Word , Jesus Christ does not live inside of them.

---

John's writing was not in reference to the "wicked people"spoken of in the book of Psalms and referenced by Paul. John instead directed his writing to those who proclaimed belief in Jesus Christ. We see this from John's continually measuring them by way of Jesus Christ.

As if Paul and James did not also acknowledge on the struggle with sinful inclinations
From John's words, we are all imperfect and deal with sinful inclinations
Only a self - righteous person will say he has no sin
Even John, the beloved did not say Christians or himself has no sin

Aemmyjah:
■ As if Paul and James did not also acknowledge on the struggle with sinful inclinations
■ From John's words, we are all imperfect and deal with sinful inclinations
■ Only a self - righteous person will say he has no sin
■ Even John, the beloved did not say Christians or himself has no sin

1. What has struggle with what you refer to as sinful inclination to do with any of this now?

2. Open your eyes to what John instead said.

Everyone commits sin but not everyone who commits sin has Jesus Christ living on the inside of him or her. One who lies that he does not sin for instance does not have Jesus Christ living on the inside of his person. And that isn't the only instance out there.

3. "Self-righteous" is a made up term since it is instead God that decides whether a one is righteous or not.

4. What John is instead telling you is that those who are righteous--- those who have Jesus Christ living inside of them --- also sin. However, unlike the unrighteous out there, they have the privilege of God forgiving them their sins and cleansing them.from all unrighteousness.

An example of a righteous man we read of in Scripture is David. David was chosen to be King after God approved Him righteous. David sinned many times after that and God is written to have forgiven David of His sins all of the times David asked Him for forgiveness , a privilege God is not written to have extended to the unrighteous.

Kobojunkie:
1. What has struggle with what you refer to as sinful inclination to do with any of this now?

2. Open your eyes to what John instead said.

Everyone commits sin but not everyone who commits sin has Jesus Christ living on the inside of him or her. One who lies that he does not sin for instance does not have Jesus Christ living on the inside of his person. And that isn't the only instance out there.

3. "Self-righteous" is a made up term since it is instead God that decides whether a one is righteous or not.

4. What John is instead telling you is that those who are righteous--- those who have Jesus Christ living inside of them --- also sin. However, unlike the unrighteous out there, they have the privilege of God forgiving them their sins and cleansing them.from all unrighteousness.

An example of a righteous man we read of in Scripture is David. David was chosen to be King after God approved Him righteous. David sinned many times after that and God is written to have forgiven David of His sins all of the times David asked Him for forgiveness , a privilege God is not written to have extended to the unrighteous.

Good one
Any sinner can gain God's approval as long as he is truly repentant
Jesus himself said he came to call sinners, not the righteous
All your points oppose your earlier statement that Paul was referring to wicked people... He did not say all wicked people, he said that all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. Continue to de misyan Bible

Aemmyjah:
■ Good one Any sinner can gain God's approval as long as he is truly repentant
■ Jesus himself said he came to call sinners, not the righteous
■ All your points oppose your earlier statement that Paul was referring to wicked people... He did not say all wicked people, he said that all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. Continue to de misyan Bible

truly repentant? It requires more than repentance -- becoming born-again --- to be approved by God. Continuous submission and obedience to the Truth of God, a journey of many many years is the least , and this after repentance. Gospel records has it that the disciples walked with Jesus Christ for at least 3 years before they were then sent out by Him.

2. That is a completely separate topic. The righteous of Old had no need for redemption. It was instead the sinners whom God had scheduled for condemnation that could benefit from salvation as offered by Jesus Christ.

3. Given that the audience of the first passages taken from the Pslams and the audience of the statement by John are entirely different, on what grounds were you able to compare the passages and reach this this conclusion of yours?

Open your eyes and read where David, the one who originally made the statements quoted by Paul made clear effort in separating the mentions of those whom he referred to as wicked/evil people from even his person.

Kobojunkie:
truly repentant? It requires more than repentance -- becoming born-again --- to be approved by God. Continuous submission and obedience to the Truth of God, a journey of many many years is the least , and this after repentance. Gospel records has it that the disciples walked with Jesus Christ for at least 3 years before they were then sent out by Him.

2. That is a completely separate topic. The righteous of Old had no need for redemption. It was instead the sinners whom God had scheduled for condemnation that could benefit from salvation as offered by Jesus Christ.

3. Given that the audience of the first passages taken from the Pslams and the audience of the statement by John are entirely different, on what grounds were you able to compare the passages and reach this this conclusion of yours?

Open your eyes and read where David, the one who originally made the statements quoted by Paul made clear effort in separating the mentions of those whom he referred to as wicked/evil people from even his person.

Paul said all have sinned
Wicked people are already sinners
He couldn't have been referring to them
The context of that verse or the entire Chapter, nothing is made reference to the wicked

In the next 2 chapters, he said something similar at Romans 5:12


Romans 5:12
That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.

According to Junkie, Paul was referring to the wicked

Aemmyjah:
■ Paul said all have sinned
Wicked people are already sinners
He couldn't have been referring to them
The context of that verse or the entire Chapter, nothing is made reference to the wicked
In the next 2 chapters, he said something similar at Romans 5:12
Romans 5:12
That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.
According to Junkie, Paul was referring to the wicked

1. Again, David, whom Paui quoted said that very same statement in reference to the wicked people in the land. Are you insinuating that Paul's statement is different from that which was meant by David whom he, Paul, quoted?

Was Paul writing his own separate truth or something?

Kobojunkie:
1. Again, David, whom Paui quoted said that very same statement in reference to the wicked people in the land. Are you insinuating that Paul's statement is different from that which was meant by David whom he, Paul, quoted?

Was Paul writing his own separate truth or something?

Show us the statement David made that Paul was making reference to

Aemmyjah:
■ Show us the statement David made that Paul was making reference to

Show us? I already did that. So you didn't even review or at least look at any of the many passages reference, but rushed to post in opposition? Wow...

See how you don allow religion reduce you to one who clearly opposes scripture all in order to continue to promote the special interpretations aka lies fed to you by your gods of men.

Kobojunkie:
Show us? I already did that. So you didn't even review or at least look at any of the many passages reference, but rushed to post in opposition? Wow...

See how you don allow religion reduce you to one who clearly opposes scripture all in order to continue to promote the special interpretations aka lies fed to you by your gods of men.

Mention the verse na
Most Bible translations have cross-references that can lead you to other verses that discusses same thing

The following are references to Romans 3:23. See for yourself if it was referring to mankind in general or specifically to the wicked people according to Kobojunkie


Psalm 51:5
Look! I was born guilty of error, And my mother conceived me in sin.

Ecclesiastes 7:20
For there is no righteous man on earth who always does good and never sins.

Romans 5:12
That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.

Job14:4
Who can produce someone clean from someone unclean? No one can!


I deliberately added Job 14:4 though it's not in the cross-reference to Paul's words.

Your reference to David no get verse or na imaginary?

Aemmyjah:
■ The following are references to Romans 3:23. See for yourself if it was referring to mankind in general or specifically to the wicked people according to Kobojunkie
Psalm 51:5---Look! I was born guilty of error, And my mother conceived me in sin.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 -- For there is no righteous man on earth who always does good and never sins.
Romans 5:12
That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.
Job14:4--- Who can produce someone clean from someone unclean? No one can!
I deliberately added Job 14:4 though it's not in the cross-reference to Paul's words. Your reference to David no get verse or na imaginary?

Those do not read like references to Romans 23 vs 23. Instead more like scriptures you have chosen to twist to force a baseless argument here.

When you are done wasting your own time, go back to page one of this thread, and re-read all the actual statements directly quoted by Paul in his write-up in the passage in Romans 3.

Kobojunkie:
Those do not read like references to Romans 23 vs 23. Instead more like scriptures you have chosen to twist to force a baseless argument here.

When you are done wasting your own time, go back to page one of this thread, and re-read all the actual statements directly quoted by Paul in his write-up in the passage in Romans 3.

Where in the entire Romans 3 did Paul mention or reference wicked people?
The only reference that is similar to what Psalms said is Psalms 51:5.if you have any, drop it

Aemmyjah:
■ Where in the entire Romans 3 did Paul mention or reference wicked people? The only reference that is similar to what Psalms said is Psalms 51:5.if you have any, drop it

Again, When you are done wasting your own time, go back to page one of this thread, and re-read all the actual statements directly quoted by Paul in his write-up in the passage in Romans 3.

Kobojunkie:
Again, When you are done wasting your own time, go back to page one of this thread, and re-read all the actual statements directly quoted by Paul in his write-up in the passage in Romans 3.

Oga
Abi na madam

Pls type the verse Paul made reference to concerning David
T for thanks