Goke7:


Oh yes, you're missing something; it's called propaganda

As simple as ABC. Too bad many are falling for it

Zahra29:


💯

And many do not pay ihs fees or get it refunded, so the birthing is completely free lol

No one forced the govt to return their fees or exempt them from ihs fees.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-work#dependants-of-work-visa-holders

Anyone who wishes to check these stats in detail can see how the chances of skilled worker visas outside healthcare for immigrants are so low, yet some of us think we are undercutting the locals or we are not hardworking enough. phew

@Zahra29, I wish I can get the opportunity to meet you in London 😁😁😁

I admire and appreciate how you respond to issues on this platform. Thank you.

There are others I also admire here and I appreciate them too.

It gives me joy when I come here to read and learn from you all (in fact, I make sure I finish everything that will distract me so that I can come here). I hope that I will soon be able to join in giving useful information and advice here too (make I first hopefully change COS sponsor first. The thing choke oo 😂😂)

God bless you all.🙏🏽

Zahra29:


If you haven't completed your studies, with proof from your university that you can share with the home office, it's very unlikely you'll be allowed to switch your visa status in line with recently implemented rules.

Can you apply for a visa extension since your school has approved your course extension?

The major increase in healthcare visa this year can mostly be attributed to those coming in on care visa. The question to ask is if they are really getting the care visa or majority of them are buying COS without job. So, it is actually not that easy to get care visa COS too without paying huge amount. Even Nurses are finding it hard to get job from Nigeria since last year. Gone were the days when Nurses when coming in droves.

The worrying aspect is that if they don't get a proper COS soon, it might affect their ability to get ILR as you can't get ILR with no job COS.

Goke7:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-work#dependants-of-work-visa-holders

Anyone who wishes to check these stats in detail can see how the chances of skilled worker visas outside healthcare for immigrants are so low, yet some of us think we are undercutting the locals or we are not hardworking enough. phew

dupyshoo:
The major increase in healthcare visa this year can mostly be attributed to those coming in on care visa. The question to ask is if they are really getting the care visa or majority of them are buying COS without job. So, it is actually not that easy to get care visa COS too without paying huge amount. Even Nurses are finding it hard to get job from Nigeria since last year. Gone were the days when Nurses when coming in droves.

The worrying aspect is that if they don't get a proper COS soon, it might affect their ability to get ILR as you can't get ILR with no job COS.

you are just confirming all that I have been saying or asking who are the people getting these visas, yet we are overloading the system or serving as a hindrance to locals. Where is the easy access to foreign or cheap labour here? And surely as you have rightly said so many bought care visas are already being cancelled some of which may be part of these stats automatically bringing down the levels of migration.

LionInZion:


How so please?

MAs

For the year ending June 2023, there were 498,626 sponsored study visas granted to main applicants.

There were 321,101 work visas granted to main applicants in the year ending June 2023

Total = 819,727

Dependants

In the year ending June 2023, almost one-quarter (24%) of all sponsored study related visas granted were to dependants of students[b] (154,063)[/b]

In the year ending June 2023 there were 217,786 grants to dependants of people who had been granted a work visa.

Total = 371,489

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-study#dependants-of-sponsored-study-visa-holders

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-june-2023/why-do-people-come-to-the-uk-to-work#dependants-of-work-visa-holders

I've been hearing this narrative of more dependants than MA, and I keep wondering where it's coming from. Among the recent entrants to the UK that I know there are more singles than married. Am I missing something please?

You're looking at totals but trends have been called out in specific categories namely post graduate students and health and care workers.

I think I'm looking at the same gov UK link as you and it shows that in the YE Sep 2023, there were 173,896 health and care dependants compared to 143,990 main applicants. Top 3 countries - India, Nigeria and Zimbabwe..Of the health and care visas, care workers accounted for 83,072 out of the 143,999 visas.

For student visas , there's been a spotlight on Nigeria because not only has the number of dependants exceeded the number of MAs : 60, 506 dependants in the YE Sep 2023 compared to 51,000 student visas, but it also represents a large increase of 59,079 in dependant numbers compared to 2019.

This is why restrictions on dependants were targeted at the above groups.

dupyshoo:
The major increase in healthcare visa this year can mostly be attributed to those coming in on care visa[b]. The question to ask is if they are really getting the care visa or majority of them are buying COS without job.[/b] So, it is actually not that easy to get care visa COS too without paying huge amount. Even Nurses are finding it hard to get job from Nigeria since last year. Gone were the days when Nurses when coming in droves.

The worrying aspect is that if they don't get a proper COS soon, it might affect their ability to get ILR as you can't get ILR with no job COS.

💯

How can over 100k care visas be granted and yet the industry is still talking about 150k vacancies. The vacancy levels never seem to go down which does beg the question of where a number of care visa holders are working.

And agreed, a lot are storing up issues for themselves down the line by not working under their sponsor.

Poanan:

No one forced the govt to return their fees or exempt them from ihs fees.

Agreed. It's deliberate policy which the govt has chosen not to rescind, for those who think that the govt is completely evil towards migrants.

I was just pointing out for all the talk about iHS, the majority of immigrants and their dependants on a work visa don't actually pay it.

A lot of them are hardly getting 20hrs shift. When they get shift, it is not reflecting in their NI and tax. Some of them don't even have any contact with the coy that gave them COS anymore. They are just hussling to survive. So,how will it count towards the shortage. Care homes are not providing care services anymore, they are just selling COS as that is more profitable.

However, to get ILR, there has to be proof that you are working for the coy that sponsored you and the coy will need to issue a letter that you are still required for the foreseeable future. If I remember well, when I got my ILR, I had to provide my P60 to show that I have been paid the required amount for years.

I believe they are still doing the same thing. So, I am afraid for a lot of people as they might encounter issues when it is time for ILR.

Zahra29:


💯

How can over 100k care visas be granted and yet the industry is still talking about 150k vacancies. The vacancy levels never seem to go down which does beg the question of where a number of care visa holders are working.

And agreed, a lot are storing up issues for themselves down the line by not working under their sponsor.

Zahra29:


And yes there are Brits as well who don't pay tax,

Everybody pays tax, maybe not all forms of tax. VAT for example.

Just to correct the record especially for people who are new to the UK.

Having secured a work visa , student visa , global talent visa etc, you have fully earned your right to live and work here for the duration of your visa. Your dependents have also earned the right to public services by virtue of your taxes.They do not have to work themselves to prove anything to the tories.

The schools , hospitals , roads and other taxes are run via insurance where people who don't use it pay for those who do. Don't ever feel guilty if your ward needs a more expensive school or expensive medical treatment.
People like me who never use these services are taxed to ensure you do get them and I don't mind even a little bit.

On another note, do you know that you can vote ? Yes , even on your first day here, as a member of the commonwealth, you can vote.

Why not register to vote today so you can vote in governments who ve got great plans for you?

https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

Zahra29:


You're looking at totals but trends have been called out in specific categories namely post graduate students and health and care workers.

I think I'm looking at the same gov UK link as you and it shows that in the YE Sep 2023, there were 173,896 health and care dependants compared to 143,990 main applicants. Top 3 countries - India, Nigeria and Zimbabwe..Of the health and care visas, care workers accounted for 83,072 out of the 143,999 visas.

For student visas , there's been a spotlight on Nigeria because not only has the number of dependants exceeded the number of MAs : 60, 506 dependants in the YE Sep 2023 compared to 51,000 student visas, but it also represents a large increase of 59,079 in dependant numbers compared to 2019.

This is why restrictions on dependants were targeted at the above groups.

Yea, in specifics, dependants of care workers outnumber the MAs. But your earlier post which I quoted said, "stats show that dependants outnumber main applicants (both students and care workers)"

You'd agree with me that's untrue.

And about Nigerian dependant numbers, that's also another point entirely which wasn't part of the post I quoted.

Zahra29:


Agreed. It's deliberate policy which the govt has chosen not to rescind, for those who think that the govt is completely evil towards migrants.

I was just pointing out for all the talk about iHS, the majority of immigrants and their dependants on a work visa don't actually pay it.

I under stand. The govt was not forced at gun point to exempt these people, they know the reason they made it that way not for for us turn around to demonise those on the route by our words. We cant start to talk down on people because govt decided to make it easier for them. The govt did not ask them to pay and they refused. Not saying some people give birth and they dont pay that is like calling them a "thief" which can be viewed as being insensitive particularly when it coming from a fellow migrant. We have diverse opinions about policies but we can be mindful of our choice of words. Everybody's path to life is different.

iyatrustee:


You can actually apply online. Cost 30k and turn around time about 72-96hrs.

Open an acct with www.possap.gov.ng and apply. I just received mine yesterday. They sent a pdf copy to my email

They basically search the criminal conviction database up till the time you left Nigeria.




Official rate is 30k

Thank you
This was helpful...

Elders please what do ya advise
We changed to skilled visa around April this year however we had a son two months ago and we only obtained his birth certificate... we have not done his Nigeria passport or even NIN as we don't have any plans of travelling to naija soon...

With this present visa brouhaha... should we go ahead and apply for his dependant visa? I mean, add him as a dependant and obtain his BRP... or is he too tender or no need for rushing... I am concerned and worried about the new policies enacted... I dont even know if it will affect him if we do not add him now...(note we changed since April)
Please your candid advise would be appreciate
Many thanks guys

Goke7:


How you feel about your home country has nothing to do with the Uk, if you think they are doing you a favour and you’re overloading their system, then good for you. It’s a country with very critical people and they always ask questions about everything and motive the govt does. If that’s what we really do back home perhaps Nigeria will not be where it is. Even the Brits themselves are complaining I wonder when some of us became the govt mouth piece to think whatever they are currently doing is in the best interest of everyone. You have even admitted that it needs to be stable so people can plan, is that not what some of us have been saying here? So what’s the stress

How you feel about your home country has everything to with the UK - in particular, how people view immigration and respond to it.

If in your own country there are impossibly high barriers for immigrants to come in and work or access public services, all while still paying taxes and various fees and you have never advocated for that to change, but you go to another person's country and you are casting their policies that are much more liberal despite being made more restrictive recently as inhumane, then it's hypocrisy.

Would you and your people back home tolerate the same numbers that you are saying are insignificant here? Not just from other countries o - even inter state and inter-region, do we not see even more stringent restrictions on 'foreigners' trying to get certain jobs/public offices? If you know all these but act shocked that Brits are being the same, then, again, it's hypocrisy.

You say they aren't doing us immigrants a favour, and I agree. But it's also on this thread that many (including you if I recall correctly) essentially said immigrants are doing the UK a favour and that the economy would collapse, and that 'what does the average brit even contribute?' So now that they are saying they don't want to do business again, why the lamentations?

hustla:



Abi, let us see the true story

PSW in Australia is between 2 to 6 years depending on course and location of study. Majority is 2 - 3 years (degree and masters students). It is not a blanket 6 years yet. https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/temporary-graduate-485/post-study-work#About

Their visa fees are definitely cheaper although health insurance costs are astronomical.

Students are now back to working a max of 40 hours a fortnight which averages 20 hours a week unless they work in certain regional health care sectors. The full time work for students was to fill worker shortages when the borders were shut for 2+ years.

Goodenoch:


How you feel about your home country has everything to with the UK - in particular, how people view immigration and respond to it.

If in your own country there are impossibly high barriers for immigrants to come in and work or access public services, all while still paying taxes and various fees and you have never advocated for that to change, but you go to another person's country and you are casting their policies that are much more liberal despite being made more restrictive recently as inhumane, then it's hypocrisy .

Would you and your people back home tolerate the same numbers that you are saying are insignificant here? Not just from other countries o - even inter state and inter-region, do we not see even more stringent restrictions on 'foreigners' trying to get certain jobs/public offices? If you know all these but act shocked that Brits are being the same, then, again, it's hypocrisy.

You say they aren't doing us immigrants a favour, and I agree. But it's also on this thread that many (including you if I recall correctly) essentially said immigrants are doing the UK a favour and that the economy would collapse, and that 'what does the average brit even contribute?' So now that they are saying they don't want to do business again, why the lamentations?

Very good, they are very liberal in separating families they will even go ahead by telling us how many children immigrants can give birth to or bypass courts of law for folks not to have legal representations on cases cos we are all hypocrites from Nigeria. Who am I to disagree with you? You are very right. I will continue to accept whatever comes my way, I never protested one day In Nigeria or spoke against corruption so why must I open my mouth here, who born monkey? I must act like a conquered slave here cos that's who I am after all.

oluwaleokey:
My country people, I greet everyone
Please with all these landlord gbas gbos....
Who will be responsible to fix a slacking door with a the door handle that got spoilt? Also I broke one side of the electric burner glass in the kitchen.

This month completed it 1 year of my 14 month term contract with the landlord infact he just asked if I still wish to continue living in the apartment with a £50 increase in rent.

Tor! I gladly accepted, where I wan start to dey look for house and pass through that kind stress again.

Please should I talk to him about the aforementioned repairs or go ahead fix it myself?

The landlord is responsible for fixing it

Goke7:


Very good, they are very liberal in separating families they will even go ahead by telling us how many children immigrants can give birth to or bypass courts of law for folks not to have legal representations on cases cos we are all hypocrites from Nigeria. Who am I to disagree with you? You are very right. I will continue to accept whatever comes my way, I never protested one day In Nigeria or spoke against corruption so why must I open my mouth here, who born monkey? I must act like a conquered slave here cos that's who I am after all.

As usual you have come with misrepresenting what people say to drive this your oppression agenda.

I never said you should not advocate for whatever. In fact, if you read my comment again, I said I agree that economic migration is a contractual issue, so clearly we all have rights and must protect them.

What I was calling out is your attempts to frame these measures as being unheard of, inhumane, and out of the norm of what countries (including our home country) put in place, making it seem as if the primary driving force for these policies is hate for immigrants or wanting to oppress migrants.

I know you'll still spin this as you want, but I'm just clearing the air for other hopefully more objective people.

Goodenoch:


As usual you have come with misrepresenting what people say to drive this your oppression agenda.

I never said you should not advocate for whatever. In fact, if you read my comment again, I said I agree that economic migration is a contractual issue, so clearly we all have rights and must protect them.

What I was calling out is your attempts to frame these measures as being unheard of, inhumane, and out of the norm of what countries (including our home country) put in place, making it seem as if the primary driving force for these policies is hate for immigrants or wanting to oppress migrants.

I know you'll still spin this as you want, but I'm just clearing the air for other hopefully more objective people.

Honestly, Goke needs to address issues from a logical point of view and not out of emotions.

He makes some good points, but has a way of twisting people's words in a sinister way.

Every side to this discussion have raised valid points. But while others present theirs objectively, he is subjective in his opinion.

Ticha:


PSW in Australia is between 2 to 6 years depending on course and location of study. Majority is 2 - 3 years (degree and masters students). It is not a blanket 6 years yet. https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/temporary-graduate-485/post-study-work#About

Their visa fees are definitely cheaper although health insurance costs are astronomical.

Students are now back to working a max of 40 hours a fortnight which averages 20 hours a week unless they work in certain regional health care sectors. The full time work for students was to fill worker shortages when the borders were shut for 2+ years.

Still, 0 considerations were given to students during or after COVID. I know people use their IHS but I am yet to use mine once (I have not even registered with a GP since moving)

Instead, school fees were increased twice for my school, visa application fees went up, IHS fees went up twice within 2 years and students were not allowed to work more than 20 hours in the face of obvious inflation. Canada also allowed people to work for more than 20 (I think its still on for those in the country already) but all we hear from UK media is that students this and that.

They cried until they left EU, cried when shortage of labor came as a result of leaving, cried when student migrants came to alleviate the labor shortage, cried when nurses came from other countries and now its tears about care workers. I know the next thing is to cry and remove PSW next year, we will see how that turns out

Not saying UK is all bad but they need to be a bit flexible and try to have a set in stone migration policy, not this uncertainty.

It is their country though and they can do as they like until we fix ours

Btw, welcome back

Goodenoch:


As usual you have come with misrepresenting what people say to drive this your oppression agenda.

I never said you should not advocate for whatever. In fact, if you read my comment again, I said I agree that economic migration is a contractual issue, so clearly we all have rights and must protect them.

What I was calling out is your attempts to frame these measures as being unheard of, inhumane, and out of the norm of what countries (including our home country) put in place, making it seem as if the primary driving force for these policies is hate for immigrants or wanting to oppress migrants.

I know you'll still spin this as you want, but I'm just clearing the air for other hopefully more objective people.

For the first time your tone towards me change cos all along it was if I was irritating you. You were commenting as if we have met somewhere before and I was wondering. What if I said you were also misrepresenting me too. You don’t even know what am dealing with or what many others too are going through or dealing with. If indeed it’s a contractual issue and folks think it will have adverse effects on their families and wellbeing should they not express it, seek help and even find out what they can do.

iyatrustee:




Honestly, Goke needs to address issues from a logical point of view and not out of emotions.

He makes some good points, but has a way of twisting people's words in a sinister way.

Every side to this discussion have raised valid points. But while others present theirs objectively, he is subjective in his opinion.

The impression some are giving is that we have unnecessary sense of entitlement despite the fact that for everyone who is here they fulfilled the legal residency obligations

iyatrustee:




Honestly, Goke needs to address issues from a logical point of view and not out of emotions.

He makes some good points, but has a way of twisting people's words in a sinister way.

Every side to this discussion have raised valid points. But while others present theirs objectively, he is subjective in his opinion.

Lol na why I give up to dey answer am. I said "an argument" was lazy as he was narrowing the argument to us being oppressed but he interpreted it as me saying that all his arguments are lazy and he must agree with me. It just showed me that he was attaching emotions to a simple critical banter from opposing ends so I just gave up. It’s like saying just because we are immigrants then we must all agree on the same views especially when our country is no better.

triplo3:

......

That said, I think immigration should be sustainable, otherwise we overload the system and we get the same “unworkable” system some of us were running away from. When last have you visited a GP or house-hunted? There’s no doubt in my mind this “tiny-Island” is under a lot of pressure and it needs to be released somehow. I don’t like the uncertainty of the immigration laws (they should be fairly stable so people can plan and not be stranded), but how many countries are viable alternatives? Maybe Canada, Australia, USA…be things May even be changing in these countries as well. In terms of voting or making a change, not sure the immigrant vote/lobby is significant enough to move the needle.

Las las, everyone go Dey alright.

You make some points but I find the bolded interesting. Are immigrants really the cause of NHS woes? I remember we were told same thing about the EU

Let me give a brief history of the NHS- its a sector that has always relied on immigrants. From the windrush arrivals of the 1950s who took on menial jobs. Then Asian and Nigerian medics of 1960- 1980s many of whom became GPs that virtually saved UK primary care from collapse. Some of the offspring of this group are quite popular e.g Kemi and Sunak. The 90s saw the influx of Eastern Europeans who took up roles in nursing, care, medicine e.t.c. Early 2000 were the Philipino nurses and recently its back to Nigerian and Asian medics again.

Let me ask...

1. What do you think would happen to the NHS wait times if all immigrants left the UK?

2. What happened in the care sector when Eastern Europeans stopped coming?

3. When was the last time you were in a GP waiting room? (no insult intended). Even in places which are quite diverse, look in any GP waiting room and observe the demography of people sat. The fastest growing age bracket in the UK is still the over 80s... In Healthcare, its a well established fact that in a system like ours, 10 % of users would use about 90% of resources. How many immigrants do you think form part of that 10%?

justwise:


Any idea the number of immigrants who pay for ihs, NI and tax but hardly use the NHS?

How much does British people on universal credit all their lives contribute to the system?

The system seems to be in so much pressure when it comes to immigrants but Ukrainers came in the system accommodated them, the govt even pay families to take them in.

Average British citizen are so ignorant of their immigration rules and policies that is why politicians take advantage of that.

The reason I get triggered when people make frivolous statements moreso about the NHS is cos its a sector I know

If you know any GP, ask them to tell you the number of fit notes they issue daily and the kind of things they are issued for. You would begin to see this country differently.

Over 100,000 additional people go off work on longterm sick leave every month many of them would be on benefits and a good chunk would work cash in cash-in-hand hence cheating the system both ways. How many visa paying immigrants are on that list?
Where is the outrage about the ten of thousands of new benefit claimants monthly? What contribution do these make to the nation in comparison to immigrants?

jedisco:



If you know any GP, ask them to tell you the number of fit notes they issue daily and the kind of things they are issued for. You would begin to see this country differently.

Some people sabi play the system wayo

Goke7:


The impression some are giving is that we have unnecessary sense of entitlement despite the fact that for everyone who is here they fulfilled the legal residency obligations

Entitlement.... hehe.. I laugh when people mention entitlement on this page.
The average immigrant many times doesn't even know his/her protected rights talk more of being entitled.

The fact is that an average immigrant needs to work in certain sectors or spend average of 5 yrs in this country to begin to understand what British entitlements means.

I must disagree with this. Yes , there are benefit cheats . What needs to be done is to close those loopholes. Demonising all benefit recipients isnt the way to go.

You hear of long covid , nhs waiting lists. Its people who are on those lists. People who would otherwise be working, in most cases and instead have to go on benefits. The Mental health wait list is astronomical. Those people will go on benefits too.

A society is only as developed as its most deprived individuals.

Also i wouldn't compare the contributions of immigrants to people on benefits. Its swings and roundabouts. Even the daily smell doesn't do that.

N.B: You seem to imply that GPs are issuing frivolous sick notes. Did i read that right? Any GP here? Is this correct?

jedisco:


The reason I get triggered when people make frivolous statements moreso about the NHS is cos its a sector I know

If you know any GP, ask them to tell you the number of fit notes they issue daily and the kind of things they are issued for. You would begin to see this country differently.

Over 100,000 additional people go off work on longterm sick leave every month many of them would be on benefits and a good chunk would work cash in cash-in-hand hence cheating the system both ways. How many visa paying immigrants are on that list?
Where is the outrage about the ten of thousands of new benefit claimants monthly? What contribution do these make to the nation in comparison to immigrants?

missjekyll:
I must disagree with this. Yes , there are benefit cheats . What needs to be done is to close those loopholes. Demonising all benefit recipients isnt the way to go.

N.B: You seem to imply that GPs are issuing frivolous sick notes. Did i read that right? Any GP here? Is this correct?

The chancellor’s statement a few weeks ago mentioned how these loopholes will be closed.

No, doctors are not issuing frivolous sick notes. It is the ‘patients’ that are presenting with frivolous symptoms to get sick notes.

And it’s very easy to present with frivolous symptoms, especially if I want to keep out of work, knowing that I will not lose too much because benefits are there to resort to.