immortalcrown:
All the days of the week have pagan origins. Why don't you avoid those days?

I believe we're talking about birthdays right?

Sakody:


Based on the bolded, what are the doctrines from the Governing Body that you disagree with and why do you disagree?

I strongly disagree with their view of higher education. The organisation makes use of professional and qualified experts in their broadcast services from graphic designers, video editors, sound engineers etc... Discouraging higher in my opinion is wrong when you make use of professionals.

Also, the idea that there won't be sickness in God's kingdom and so people shouldn't bother spending years reading medical courses doesn't sit well at all with me.

These are my personal views. I can't speak for other witnesses.

NowYouKnow:
I believe we're talking about birthdays right?

Yes. But your mention of paganism triggered my question about the days of the week.

NowYouKnow:


Very well, to each his own.

Do you know that the Madrid High Court in a ruling recently called your organization a "sect or cult"?

This is from a press release about the judgment:

The sentence describes the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses as a "sect or cult" arguing:

"These examples and fragments of their religious texts themselves can be considered in our days as excessive control over the lives of the faithful in aspects that Spanish society in the majority considers positive, such as university studies, relationships with people of different faiths or absence of them, marriages of people with different religious sensitivities as a sample of the same."

The judgment also notes that the organization's teachings and practices can be seen as a form of indoctrination, which can be harmful to the members' mental and emotional well-being.

The judgment concludes that the restrictions of the JW organization on the freedom of its members are evidence that it is a "cult".

Yigefengzi:


Hmmmm
Well at least you were honest in your write-up. I appreciate your honesty. You did not try to cover up with lame unreasonable and pointless excuses like that animal that calls himself your brother.

The writeup was honest but the question is can the governing body give such detailed and honest response? The answer is they can't.

Well at least it is good to see that not all witnesses have a dull and animalistic mind like one animal in this forum. There is no publication from the governing body that explains in details the reason why the organisation is being sued up and down for child abuse cases. Some witnesses are not even aware.

This guy did his research from publications outside the organisation. For him to do that without claiming such publications are apostate material makes me wonder if he is really a witness.

oteneaaron:


Hahahahahahahahaha

You are now insulting another JW like you?

😂😂😂

He has put you in your place hasn't he?

Archoladey, Emusan, Courz, MightySparrow you guys need to come and see this thread!

This one heavy . His feather got badly roughened. One line of thought marketer taught another lesson.

oteneaaron:


Do you know that the Madrid High Court in a ruling recently called your organization a "sect or cult"?

This is from a press release about the judgment:

You are familiar with the recent court judgment regarding the watchtower branch there and ex members right?

NowYouKnow:
■ I strongly disagree with their view of higher education. The organisation makes use of professional and qualified experts in their broadcast services from graphic designers, video editors, sound engineers etc... Discouraging higher in my opinion is wrong when you make use of professionals.
Also, the idea that there won't be sickness in God's kingdom and so people shouldn't bother spending years reading medical courses doesn't sit well at all with me.
These are my personal views. I can't speak for other witnesses.

What exactly is the point in stating that you disagree with some of the views of the organization when you remain locked tight in it?

Kobojunkie:
Christianity is a religion comprised of several thousands cult which are referred to as denominations.
JWs happen to be just one or more of them.

achorladey:


You are familiar with the recent court judgment regarding the watchtower branch there and ex members right?

Yes that is the case I am actually talking about.

The quote I posted is from the press release of the exjw association of Spain.

Watchtower was trying to bully them, not knowing a big L was on the way for them.

😂😂😂

The Law has clearly said they are a cult.

Wetin we wan hear again?

oteneaaron:


Do you know that the Madrid High Court in a ruling recently called your organization a "sect or cult"?

This is from a press release about the judgment:

Yes I am aware.
The fact that they did that doesn't mean we actually are a sect or cult.

The Russian government called us extremists and even went as far as jailing some of our members but in 2022 the European supreme court issued a landmark judgement against Russia.

You don't see Jehovahs witnesses protesting or rebelling against governmental authorities do you? You don't see us join political parties that divide the masses, you don't see us encourage violence and destruction against people and their properties, you don't see us in support of wars or rebel groups or weird movements like LGBT, BLM, etc..

We mind our business and separate ourselves from other churches which you and I very well know have been tainted with new age Kabbalah belief's.

NowYouKnow:


Jehovah's Witnesses abstain from celebrating birthdays due to our interpretation of certain biblical principles. While the Bible does mention birthday celebrations, it is in a context that Jehovah's Witnesses believe associates them with practices that go against our religious beliefs.

For example, in the Bible, both instances of birthday celebrations involve negative outcomes: Pharaoh's birthday celebration (Genesis 40:20-22) and King Herod's birthday party, where John the Baptist was beheaded (Matthew 14:6-10). Jehovah's Witnesses take these instances as indications that birthday celebrations are not aligned with our understanding of biblical principles.

Additionally, we strive to avoid any customs or traditions that have pagan or non-Christian origins. Since the historical roots of birthday celebrations can be traced back to various pagan practices, we Jehovah's Witnesses choose not to partake in them as a matter of religious conviction.

Let me bring this into close proximity.....

Jehovah's Witnesses abstain from celebrating birthdays due to our interpretation of certain biblical principles.

Jehovah’s Witnesses interpretation of the Bible is the basis of why they are not celebrating birthdays not what the Bible explicitly say they should not do. In this case it is what Jesus stated clearly as teaching commands of men as doctrines

While the Bible does mention birthday celebrations, it is in a context that Jehovah's Witnesses believe associates them with practices that go against our religious beliefs.

Good you know that Jehovah’s witnesses and in this case YOUR GODS(guardians of our Doctrines) aka Governing Body aka faithful and discreet slave aka the 9 men housed in USA created a context and look into the Bible to support the context as it applies to their religious beliefs.

For example, in the Bible, both instances of birthday celebrations involve negative outcomes: Pharaoh's birthday celebration (Genesis 40:20-22) and King Herod's birthday party, where John the Baptist was beheaded (Matthew 14:6-10). Jehovah's Witnesses take these instances as indications that birthday celebrations are not aligned with our understanding of biblical principles.

Those examples highlighted above in context and content have nothing to do with the correctness or wrongness of birthday celebrations.

Additionally, we strive to avoid any customs or traditions that have pagan or non-Christian origins. Since the historical roots of birthday celebrations can be traced back to various pagan practices, we Jehovah's Witnesses choose not to partake in them as a matter of religious conviction.

It is your religious leaders aka Governing Body that determines what to observe and what not to observe. They decides what is of pagan root and not of pagan root. Disfellowshipping and excommunication are of pagan roots yet they are heavy practices in your midst. I see the above are just ways of them doing everything trick in their power to separate their members from other Christian religious denominations it has nothing to do with pagan practices

Kobojunkie:
What exactly is the point in stating that you disagree with some of the views of the organization when you remain locked tight in it?

To let you know that it is not everything they say we should do that witnesses actually do and to let you know that some witnesses are not locked in a box mentally. Some think outside the box. If you still don't understand what I am trying to say then it is all good. You're free to believe whatever you want about Jehovah's witnesses.

NowYouKnow:


Well we do not view ourselves as one for these reasons:

The classification of whether Jehovah's Witnesses are considered a cult can vary based on individual perspectives. However, some argue that they don't fit typical characteristics of cults because:

1. Mainstream Recognition: Jehovah's Witnesses are recognized as a legitimate religious movement by governments in many countries, and they have legal status as a religion.

2. Organizational Structure: Unlike many cults, Jehovah's Witnesses have a structured organizational hierarchy with defined leadership roles. They operate under a centralized structure, and their teachings are disseminated through official channels.

3. Voluntary Membership: Membership in Jehovah's Witnesses is voluntary, and individuals have the freedom to leave the organization if they choose without facing severe consequences. Cults often exert more control over their members.

4. Doctrinal Transparency: Jehovah's Witnesses openly share their beliefs and doctrines, and their literature is widely available. Cults, on the other hand, may be more secretive about their teachings.

5. Peaceful Practices: Jehovah's Witnesses generally promote peaceful and law-abiding behavior. They are known for their door-to-door evangelism but avoid aggressive recruitment tactics.

The way you respond to questions really interesting.

The classification of whether Jehovah's Witnesses are considered a cult can vary based on individual perspectives.

The key you used here is perspective. You went further to highlight your own perspective of what you know identify Jehovah’s witnesses as not a cult

However, some argue that they don't fit typical characteristics of cults because:

Take your time to see all the characteristics you mentioned and apply them to a typical cult you know. You will see that Jehovah's Witnesses share same . Don't forget they are all individual perspective.

Kobojunkie:
No need for the whitewashing !

NowYouKnow wants to hide behind individual perspective and whitewash present realities about that religious organization

MaxInDHouse:

I am Maximus one of Jehovah's Witnesses so if you're here to answer questions prepare to deactivate this account in less than five days or avoid many comments or begin answering each the way they present themselves.
I have opened and deactivated my account two times before i decided to keep this and only respond to anyone asking questions but one thing is certain: you can't tell anyone to keep quiet when his beliefs are being spoken against and in most cases lied against.
Each person will render an account before the true God and as far as this forum is concerned those attacking God's organization don't really want your response they just want to accuse the organization and convince the audience that they're saying the truth if you're quiet.

I am an elder in my own congregation so don't think i just love entertaining arguments all i do is respond to whoever truly needs it.

Once again you're welcome!

Madness and insanities peddling peddler laced with lies and manipulations boasting and bragging as usual only to be sent packing from thread based on the traits above

NowYouKnow:

■ To let you know that it is not everything they say we should do that witnesses actually do and to let you know that some witnesses are not locked in a box mentally. Some think outside the box. If you still don't understand what I am trying to say then it is all good. You're free to believe whatever you want about Jehovah's witnesses.

I honestly don't get this mentality of yours at all. What meaning is there to claiming one thinks outside of the box all the while sitting tight within the same box?

achorladey:


I see the above are just ways of them doing everything trick in their power to separate their members from other Christian religious denominations it has nothing to do with pagan practices

Regardless of whether it is a trick or not, let's call a spade a spade. There is no record of Jesus or any of the first century Christians celebrating the day of their birth. Besides, if life is filled with problems, tragedies and tribulations what's really special about the day of one being born and brought to this life? Why is it worth celebrating? The day of one's death is far better than the day he or she was born because the day you die, you rest. No more toiling under the sun.

Kobojunkie:
I honestly don't get this mentality of yours at all. What meaning is there to claiming one thinks outside of the box all the while sitting tight within the same box?

If you don't get my mentality why seek more answers from me? Live and let live.

NowYouKnow:


I strongly disagree with their view of higher education. The organisation makes use of professional and qualified experts in their broadcast services from graphic designers, video editors, sound engineers etc... Discouraging higher in my opinion is wrong when you make use of professionals.

Also, the idea that there won't be sickness in God's kingdom and so people shouldn't bother spending years reading medical courses doesn't sit well at all with me.

These are my personal views. I can't speak for other witnesses.

Thank you for being honest. Those are very valid points you mentioned that show a very high level of Hypocrisy on the part of the Governing body.

Is this all that you disagree with the Governing body?

NowYouKnow:


Before I answer your question, let me admit that I am just as shocked as you are that such cases exist.
However, they are real. I promised to be honest so here are answers to your question.


1. Failure to Report: Some lawsuits claim that the organization failed to report instances of child sexual abuse to the authorities promptly which is true. However, today members are allowed to report to the authorities promptly.

2. Internal Handling of Cases: We Jehovah's Witnesses have an internal judicial system to address wrongdoing within the congregations. Some argue that this internal handling may not prioritize the safety of victims or adequately address the legal implications of the abuse which I agree is true. Today, members are allowed to report to the authorities (police) when it comes to serious issues like child abuse or rape.

3. Two-Witness Rule: The organization had a doctrinal "two-witness rule," requiring two credible witnesses to an event or a confession before taking action. This made it challenging for victims to establish their case within the internal judicial process. Today, such rule has been updated.

4. Alleged Lack of Support for Victims: Some lawsuits claim that the organization did not provide sufficient support for abuse victims, both emotionally and in terms of taking appropriate action against the alleged perpetrators. There are even cases of elders warning or threatening the abused victim and their family not to report to the authorities or else they face discipline. This in my opinion was wrong and totally out of place. The elders on their part were presumptuous and overzealous in their duties. They lacked empathy and compassion for the victims.

5. Cover-up: There are cases in court of elders covering up cases of abuse which eventually lead to the abuse of other innocent congregants.

These are some of the reasons why the organisation faces child abuse cases.

Please note that It was not the intention of the organisation to harbor rapist, pedophiles or child molesters when they had the above rules and policies. Same way it isn't the intention of a family to harbor a member who is a criminal.

Such polices were initially created to prevent a brother or sister from being wrongfully accused of something he or she did not do. However, the poor handling of such cases has led to the governing body paying a huge price which is expected because they are not infallible.

We should also do well to understand that just because some members were jailed for child abuse doesn't mean all witnesses are child abusers.

Also, it is not all child abuse cases that are won in favour of the victim. Sometimes the organisation does win some cases.

Your position shows you are knowledgeable enough of what is going on in there....

Please note that It was not the intention of the organisation to harbor rapist, pedophiles or child molesters when they had the above rules and policies. Same way it isn't the intention of a family to harbor a member who is a criminal.

The bold are your own perspective, to another man the two witness rule still in place and your religious organisation stated will remain is a good way to support the intention and protect child abusers. Added to that religious organization hiding behind the fact that in some countries and states no mandatory reporting is in place and setting up their own judicial committees to decide whether a criminal offence has taken place when the governmental authorities can do so using various actions available to them which are limited in your religious organization.

Such polices were initially created to prevent a brother or sister from being wrongfully accused of something he or she did not do. However, the poor handling of such cases has led to the governing body paying a huge price which is expected because they are not infallible.

Your perspective, you were not there when such policies are made most of them are made to keep the congregation clean and protect Jehovah’s name by the powers that be in your midst...the Governing Body.

We should also do well to understand that just because some members were jailed for child abuse doesn't mean all witnesses are child abusers.

No one admits that all members are child abusers

Also, it is not all child abuse cases that are won in favour of the victim. Sometimes the organisation does win some cases.

No one expect all judgement in all cases regarding that to be in one direction

NowYouKnow:


You cannot and can never be one of Jehovah's witnesses. Go back to the troll cave you crawled out from and stop derailing my thread with your venomous vitriol. You are an elder and you go about arguing and Insulting people in a faceless forum to do what? Bring praise and honour to your organisation right? Nonesense. Get out of this thread!

MaxInDHouse collect your change jejely

MaxInDHouse:


In addition to the above God's servants never said anything good about the remembrance of birth:
“Let the day perish on which I was born, Also the night when someone said: ‘A man has been conceived!’ Job 3:3

A good name is better than good oil, and the day of death is better than the day of birth. Ecclesiastes 7:1

"Cursed be the day I was born! May the day my mother gave birth to me not be blessed" Jeremiah 20:14

Now in harmony with the above the world's most wonderful counselor of all time Jesus Christ {Isaiah 9:6} told his listeners that it's the same line of thought he shared with those prophets:

“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill." Matthew 5:17

He promised his disciples that the spirit of God will remind them necessary details of what he taught them and things they needed to pen down for future purpose:

"But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you" John 14:26

Did God's Holy Spirit did as Jesus promised?
YES! The apostles and other gospel writers remembered everything Jesus taught them so vividly including how he was born but in all of this the date of Jesus' birth was not remembered!

Jesus told his disciples to remember the date he was executed {Luke 22:19} which is in perfect harmony with what Ecclesiastes 7:1 said centuries before Jesus' birth.

He never celebrated his birthday, his parents never did, his beloved apostles never did and after his ascension to heaven they never marked Jesus' birthday!

On the day Jesus was born this happened....
But the angel said to them: “Do not be afraid, for look! I am declaring to you good news of a great joy that all the people will have.

That day was a day of great joy that all people will have

A good name is better than good oil, and the day of death is better than the day of birth. Ecclesiastes 7:1

What your madness and insanities peddling brains needs to see is the good and the better.

The positive of better is good. The positive of better is not and never be bad

The day of death is better than birth. The day of birth can never be bad. The day Jesus was born you can never ever say it was a bad day

Your birthday doctrines packed into your madness and insanities peddling brains are lies and falsehood to separate your members from other Christian religious denominations. It has nothing to do with they bible. They are purely commands of men as DOCTRINES and your GODS already admits it was stated explicitly nowhere that people should not celebrate birthdays. Na their own concoctions

achorladey:


NowYouKnow wants to hide behind individual perspective and whitewash present realities about that religious organization

Hide and white wash or just plain honesty... you're free to see it which ever way you want.

I think the misconception most people have about Jehovah's witnesses is that they are ALL a bunch of brainwashed individuals. If the governing body tells us to jump inside fire then ALL witnesses will jump inside fire right? Wrong!

That's what I want people to understand.

Some may wonder, well if you don't believe in everything they (Governing Body) say why are you a witness?

Because I see reason in some of their teachings and doctrines such as:

Not participating in wars or politics or being members to rebel groups.

Having a realistic view of God and how he operates unlike churches of today that tell you to speak in tongues and paint God to be some sort of father Christmas or superman whose favour you can get if you pay tithe.

Non believe in healings and miraculous works from a particular " Man of God".

Avoiding a hedonistic lifestyle.

Avoiding new age practices. (Yoga , meditation, numerology, kundalini etc)

I choose to remain a witness because I can see for myself that certain teachings have a positive influence over my life. Teachings that are not present in any church today.

MaxInDHouse:


You will see why many of us can't remain silent but then calm down bro you're not the judge.

Meanwhile enjoy your time with them!

The number accuser of others as agitating and agitators

NowYouKnow:


No white Washing here but your free to believe what you want.

By the way, the idea that Jehovah's Witnesses do exactly every single thing the governing body tells us to do is false.

In every organisation, whether religious or non religious there will always be those that take things to the extreme and those that are open and think outside the box.

Let me give you an example. Some years ago, the governing body came up with a rule that any elder whose child is in a far away university must be dropped. Some elders pulled their children away from the university, some did not send their kids to the university, while some dropped from their position as elders willingly and sent their kids to any far away university of their choice.

Were they killed, flogged, disfellowshipped or shunned? The answer is NO.

My point is not all witnesses are the same. Some they groove life pass you and you're free to do what you want as long as you are not doing anything that is against God's commandments in the Bible.

In time many of the way Jehovah’s witnesses are made to think unravels....

Were they killed, flogged, disfellowshipped or shunned? The answer is NO.

The consequences are not based on killed, flogged, disfellowshipped or shunned. You know what the consequences are and you sidestepped it and didn't mention it.

My point is not all witnesses are the same. Some they groove life pass you and you're free to do what you want as long as you are not doing anything that is against God's commandments in the Bible.

MaxInDHouse your fraud of one line of thought exposed again

Cc: Emusan

By the way, the idea that Jehovah's Witnesses do exactly every single thing the governing body tells us to do is false. In every organisation, whether religious or non religious there will always be those that take things to the extreme and those that are open and think outside the box.

Some animals are more equal than others Your Governing Body members they don't do everything they ask their members to do. We know paapaa.

MaxInDHouse:



You're just being judgemental it's obvious you're an apostate pretending here.

See the hypocrisy in one statement. Accusing others of being judgemental and doing that same thing he cautioned against by saying another person is an apostate. You want to silence him and ensure others don't take into consideration his posts here

Madness and insanities peddling brains laced with lies and manipulations doing his thing as usual

NowYouKnow:


Oh so now I am the apostate because I choose to explain with facts rather than spit insult all over the place...right?

Please do me a favour and get out of this thread.

That's the MaxInDHouse the madness and insanities peddling peddler who never cease to do his things here on nairaland.

MaxInDHouse:


Guy keep shut!
If you don't want others to express themselves why quoting me in the first place?
I'm not interested in your hopeless thread if you never quoted me i have no business with judgemental people like you.
So keep your thread and never ever quote me again in your miserable life.
Bye!

No be you carry your madness and insanities peddling brains come join discussion you were not mentioned

achorladey:


Your position shows you are knowledgeable enough of what is going on in there....

My profession deals with making extensive research. I know almost everything about my organisation. Things they've done and tried to cover up, blunders in failed prophecies or explanation of certain scriptures, controversial policies etc.


Why they (Governing Body) choose to handle certain things the way they do baffles me. However, I am aware that they are not infallible so I don't judge and condemn them totally. I also take into consideration the fact that some of their teachings are on point and it has saved me from being a member of any of today's new age church with questionable practices. That doesn't mean we (Jehovah's witnesses) are better than every other church. Christianity is not a football club thing we're my club is better than yours. It about your way of life in accordance with God's word the Bible.

This is why when I have non heated arguments with my fellow brothers who seem to take things to the extreme, I tell them to take it easy.

NowYouKnow:


Yes I am aware.
The fact that they did that doesn't mean we actually are a sect or cult.

The Russian government called us extremists and even went as far as jailing some of our members but in 2022 the European supreme court issued a landmark judgement against Russia.

You don't see Jehovahs witnesses protesting or rebelling against governmental authorities do you? You don't see us join political parties that divide the masses, you don't see us encourage violence and destruction against people and their properties, you don't see us in support of wars or rebel groups or weird movements like LGBT, BLM, etc..

We mind our business and separate ourselves from other churches which you and I very well know have been tainted with new age Kabbalah belief's.

I am sorry but Jehovah's Witnesses are very much regarded as a Cult and an Extremist organisation because of the amount of control it has over the members. Oteneaaron mentioned the types of control we are talking about. Are you aware that people who are in Cults are usually not aware they are in one? Because of the systematic and long term Brainwashing instilled, members of Cults find it absurd and unfathomable that they are in one. Are you aware that there are other religions, regarded as Cults that are very similar to Jehovah's Witnesses? The same level of control. The same system of beliefs. This alone destroys the 'unique' image Watchtower tries so hard to paint before you JWs, with the belief you are different from other religions. But you are really not. There is Mormons, Scientology, Seventh Day Adventists, etc. There is a Cult called Shincheonji Church of Jesus based in South Korea. A man had to research Jehovah's Witnesses before he could understand that he was swindled into joining a Cult. Why did he think of Jehovah's Witnesses out of all religions? Because Jehovah's Witnesses are so similar to this Cult. Their ways and beliefs.

Why am I saying this? Because I believe one way to know if you're in a Cult is to research other Cults and see if there are similarities with Jehovah's Witnesses. There are many Movies and documentaries on Cults. Scientology has it's own documentary that reveals their harmful practices and ex members exposing them. Social media and News stories is loaded with ex members of different cults exposing their abuse. In fact, this is another sure way to know you are in a Cult.

Take a look at the pics below. These are characteristics of Cults. Be Very honest with yourself and read each point. Ask yourself honestly if these can be found in Jehovah's Witnesses.

Sakody:
Is this all that you disagree with the Governing body?

The doctrine that only members of Jehovah's witnesses will enter God's kingdom or that we are the only truthful organisation in the entire planet is one I strongly disagree with.

The history of the Organisation has shown that there are alot of things the governing body did not get right. Anyone with sense and ability to reason logically can see for themselves that like other churches we do not know it all.