KnownUnknown:


There would have ‘been no “lingua Franca” per se during those times. However, since it was the early period of imperial Rome when the power was in Rome and the Emperor was Tiberius, the “lingua Franca” would be Latin. While the “Greek” Seleucids and Ptolemaic had controlled the Judea area prior to the Romans, there is no reason to think the common people that had no direct business with rulers would be able to speak Greek.
Your example below is negated by the fact that despite the area called Nigeria being an English colony, speakers of the indigenous languages remained the majority and English was thought until a need for local clerical workers arose.




He speaks English due to being educated to speak English. The Jesus character would not have spoken Latin because he would not be educated to speak the language. Additionally, the people of Judea were fighting against Roman rule so adopting the language of the “enemy” would be out of the question. The people who would be able to speak Latin would be the highly educated wealthy/ruling class, a group that Jesus the carpenter was not part of.

So many assumptions in your post
But let me ask some questions
Why do Jews call gentiles Greek?
Why was the syrophoenician woman called Greek?
Who are Hellenised Jews, why are they called Hellenised , where do they live
Why did Pontius Pilate write 'king of Jews' in greek.
If a Jew wants to speak to a non Jew, in what language will they communicate?

Did u say English speakers were rare in colonial era amongst the native.
So if a Nigerian during colonial era travels to
Ghana, what language will he speak. Twi or ashante.
It's like you have forgotten pidgin English predates colonial era.
Every standard 6 holder in colonial days could communicate in English. My grandfather was writing in English as far back as 1920s yet didn't have any formal education.
Which bush of Nigeria do u come from that English speakers was a rarity in colonial era.

Simon the Cyrene from north Africa was asked to carry a cross by a Roman soldier in Judea province.
What would have been the language of communication.

If Latin was the lingua Franca in Roman province, why was the new testament written in Greek?

Your claim Jesus couldn't speak greek is largely unfounded when the bible points to the fact he could speak greek.

John 7.35

The Jews said to one another, “Where does this man intend to go that we cannot find him? Will he go where our people live scattered among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks? What did he mean when he said, ‘You will look for me, but you will not find me,’ and ‘Where I am, you cannot come’?”

Now why did the Jews say Jesus was going to teach the Greeks if they knew he couldn't speak greek.

I just discovered u another ignorant atheist. Pls check my previous post on this subject matter. I'm not ready to repeat myself.
Otherwise, u can get a digger and dig your own grave, then wait for me to bury u at my own convenience. I'm too busy in this 2024 to be replying ignorant posts, u have to wait.

KnownUnknown:


Regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of the above, your Christianity came via the Church of England, an entity created by King Henry VIII of England because the Pope refused to let him get a divorce. That’s when Henry remembered that he was “ The King”, not the Italian dude in Rome claiming to get his authority from god.

First, tell me; How did English themselves become Christians?

Second, So Methodist, catholic , foursquare, baptist churches in Nigeria came from the church of England.
Francophone countries also became christians virtue of church of England.
Mary Slessor was a Presbyterian, is she from church of England.

All u these atheists no just wan get sense. The nonsense u did in 2023, una don carry am enter 2024.

What exactly will cost u guys to research your claim b4 writing it. Google is just one click away.

There are some stuff I want to write but I delete because I cross checked and realise they were wrong. Why can't u guys do the same.
Abeg 2024 is too productive for this rubbish.
If u are too lazy to research your claim, just shut up. Some of us have life outside nairaland to be replying nonsense post.

KnownUnknown:


Regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of the above, your Christianity came via the Church of England, an entity created by King Henry VIII of England because the Pope refused to let him get a divorce. That’s when Henry remembered that he was “ The King”, not the Italian dude in Rome claiming to get his authority from god.

Now tell me name of the first church in Nigeria.

SIRTee15:


First, tell me; How did English themselves become Christians?

Through the Romans. Pope Gregory being a major figure.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_I

SIRTee15:

Second, So Methodist, catholic , foursquare, baptist churches in Nigeria came from the church of England.

Catholics were the first and the others came after various events or “schisms”.

SIRTee15:

Francophone countries also became christians virtue of church of England.

The Catholics had a foothold in France so that would be the source of Christianity for the frenxh colonies.

SIRTee15:

Mary Slessor was a Presbyterian, is she from church of England.

The Presbyterians were Scottish hence a part of the British empire, and a product of the English civil wars. They are an offshoot of the Church of England.

SIRTee15:

But let me ask some questions
Why do Jews call gentiles Greek?

Jews refer to non-Jews as gentiles.

SIRTee15:


Why was the syrophoenician woman called Greek?

Possibly because she was a descendant of Hellenes who resided in the Seleucid empire.

SIRTee15:

Who are Hellenised Jews, why are they called Hellenised , where do they live

Hellenized Jews were part of the ruling class or other well to do Judeans who had adopted Greek customs and civilization during that period.

SIRTee15:

Why did Pontius Pilate write 'king of Jews' in greek.

I do not consider the Jesus story to be anything but mythology, however, since Judea was under Roman control during this time, the phrase would have been a mockery.

SIRTee15:

If a Jew wants to speak to a non Jew, in what language will they communicate?

The same way any two people communicate. In a language they both understand, through gestures, or though a translator.

SIRTee15:

Simon the Cyrene from north Africa was asked to carry a cross by a Roman soldier in Judea province.

Whatever language Simon the Cyrene from North Africa and the Roman soldier both understood. But since he was a Roman soldier, I bet he didn’t even need to speak the same language as Simon when force and violence are very effective.

SIRTee15:

If Latin was the lingua Franca in Roman province, why was the new testament written in Greek?

Probably because it was created by Hellenized Greeks.

SIRTee15:


Your claim Jesus couldn't speak greek is largely unfounded when the bible points to the fact he could speak greek.

John 7.35

The Jews said to one another, “Where does this man intend to go that we cannot find him? Will he go where our people live scattered among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks? What did he mean when he said, ‘You will look for me, but you will not find me,’ and ‘Where I am, you cannot come’?”

Now why did the Jews say Jesus was going to teach the Greeks if they knew he couldn't speak greek.

That passage does not reflect your claims and Jesus the Greek speaker.

SIRTee15:


Now tell me name of the first church in Nigeria.

The Church of England (Anglican Church) circa 1842

Aemmyjah:



You must see something to believe it exists or existed.
Yes or No?

You must have evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Sight is one way but even our senses can be deceptive. So you need to scrutinize it. Example if I see Chris Angel walking on water, my skeptical brain would like to know how he did it. How did he defy the laws of physics? I cannot just believe it just because I saw it. You understand me?

SIRTee15:



What is the lingua Franca of the Roman empire in the eastern region. Did Jesus speak that Lingua Franca.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_Jesus

There was also no Roman Garrison in Galilee during Jesus time.

KnownUnknown:


The Church of England (Anglican Church) circa 1842

The guy just keeps arguing in circles.

Isreal is not in Africa, then let him tell us how Christianity became an official religion of the Roman empire which extended to the shores of northern Africa. He's talking as if the disciples ventured into the deep parts of Nigeria to preach the gospels.

Jesus most likely spoke Aramaic, even though some jews also spoke Greek/latin. Jesus's audience were largely jewish, who understand the language he spoke, that is, Aramaic. He says, Europe has nothing to do with it, but the bible is completely, or rather, mostly translated from Greek---an European dialect. Which later went to Latin, before transcriptions to English, and to other languages. The Bishops who cemented the tenets of Christianity were cleary influenced by greeko-roman religious philosophy. It's the very reason Jesus is God. Remove the European jargon from the new testament and you'll have an ordinary man who served his God diligently. Poor old Sirtee15.

Thorrn:

So, apparently this is Dtruthspeaker's reason for his decision to abandon ship in our debate over God's existence 😂😂.

see long long talk over simple thing!

The debate ended because you have no valid way to argue especially with your lying that you have not been clarified whereas you indeed got it

So, if you are so pained by your loss and you want a rematch (re-litiigate), raise a thread and mention me. I will meet you there and you will still find that you have nothing valid to say.

Thorrn:

Let me briefly come in here. The Cambridge Learner's Dictionary defines "proof" as a "fact or a piece of information that shows something exists or is true".

No you cannot come in. RIL (Res ipsa Loquitur. And we know proof. We use it everyday to catch employees, erring family members, neighbours and enemies . So RiL to you or Cambridge or D

Thorrn:
. Keen observers will notice how Dtruthspeaker slyly and deceptively tries to reject my attempt at scrutinizing his logic by spuriously claiming that I've shifted the goalposts.

Keen observers did notice that I only raised an objection to your departure from post while patiently waiting for you for weeks to address the post, until it was reasonable to conclude that you could not address the topic.

So clearly, the point of your post here is to relitigate And you cannot do so because this one is settled already and you lost. and your attempt of re-arguing your lost case is a nullity .

But, as I said above, if you want to re-litigate and rematch RAISE A THREAD! .

KnownUnknown:


Jews refer to non-Jews as gentiles.



Possibly because she was a descendant of Hellenes who resided in the Seleucid empire.



Hellenized Jews were part of the ruling class or other well to do Judeans who had adopted Greek customs and civilization during that period.



I do not consider the Jesus story to be anything but mythology, however, since Judea was under Roman control during this time, the phrase would have been a mockery.



The same way any two people communicate. In a language they both understand, through gestures, or though a translator.



Whatever language Simon the Cyrene from North Africa and the Roman soldier both understood. But since he was a Roman soldier, I bet he didn’t even need to speak the same language as Simon when force and violence are very effective.




Probably because it was created by Hellenized Greeks.




That passage does not reflect your claims and Jesus the Greek speaker.

All your response makes no sense. It was better if u had kept quiet.
Gesture and translator indeed.

Now let's see the the correct answers to my questions.
What is the lingua Franca in the eastern province of the Roman empire?
Pls refer to my chat gpt screenshot for answer.

Thorrn:
...! Nevertheless, I refrained myself from preempting him any further and decided to give him the opportunity to explain himself properly.This was where my SECOND REQUEST FOR CLARIFICATION was made, which you can see above where I asked, "In the context of proving the existence of God, what is this statement supposed to mean if it's not supposed to suggest a first cause?"[

Having gone back to check for a response to my query about what the statement "nothing in this world" created itself suggests, I can still confirm that Dtruthspeaker has offered no clarifications as to what his claim implies, if it doesn't suggest the existence of a first cause..

I think i told you that your fear and fixation on first cause makes you blind wforhich is why you lost as I just now remembered that I argued against TenQ or so, also a Christian here, that first cause argument is an invalid argument because of the falls it truly has.

So raise a thread if you want a rematch.

Dtruthspeaker:


I think i told you that your fear and fixation on first cause makes you blind wforhich is why you lost as I just now remembered that I argued against TenQ or so, also a Christian here, that first cause argument is an invalid argument because of the falls it truly has.

So raise a thread if you want a rematch.

Really!?
Does the laws of Physics exist before the "big bang/inflation"?

Thorrn:
Before moving on to the main point of contention, I'll briefly address a few other comments relating to the overall topic:

Then you don't know dick squat about basic principles in logic.

In any TRUE dichotomy, the rejection of one alternative lends credence to the suggestion of the other alternative as the truth. Therefore, it follows that if I should deny the facts of alternative A, I am suggesting that alternative B is the truth. ..

See desperation! Hahahahahaha

If i say change of post now, you woul start crying but look at the very big fallacy you just laid in the bold

So, as I deny Tinubu's presidency It means therefore that I say Kwankwanso is truly the president? what a big comedian

TenQ:

Really!?
Does the laws of Physics exist before the "big bang/inflation"?

That's a question that can only be truly answered by The Law Maker for it is He Who knows the state of things before the supposed and alleged big bang.

The only part that anybody can give truthful talk on is about this House which we call earth and the things we have all seen and experienced. Anything outside this falls on imagination, speculations, wishes, hopes and dreams

And you should remember physics is referring to things we can all see aka physicals.

Thorrn:

Of course, it's very convenient for you to dismiss my refutations as "noise" because you're at a loss as to which other way you can push your failure of an argument. ...

You are just making us laugh. People know the sound of empty barrels and noise making and desperate long long talks!

kkins25:
The guy just keeps arguing in circles.

Isreal is not in Africa, then let him tell us how Christianity became an official religion of the Roman empire which extended to the shores of northern Africa. He's talking as if the disciples ventured into the deep parts of Nigeria to preach the gospels.

Jesus most likely spoke Aramaic, even though some jews also spoke Greek/latin. Jesus's audience were largely jewish, who understand the language he spoke, that is, Aramaic. He says, Europe has nothing to do with it, but the bible is completely, or rather, mostly translated from Greek---an European dialect. Which later went to Latin, before transcriptions to English, and to other languages. The Bishops who cemented the tenets of Christianity were cleary influenced by greeko-roman religious philosophy. It's the very reason Jesus is God. Remove the European jargon from the new testament and you'll have an ordinary man who served his God diligently. Poor old Sirtee15.

Ok let's test this claim of 'Jesus is God's is a greek-roman philosophy.

Do Jews in the 2nd temple period believe the word of God called logos is an existence on its own.
Have u heard of philo? What did he say about logos.
Do u know the book called Didache? It's a catechist used by jewish- Christians in the first century AD. What does it say about trinity?

Did any of the apostolic fathers in the first century AD confirmed Jesus is God.

KnownUnknown:


Jews refer to non-Jews as gentiles.

Paul wrote in his book to the Romans...

For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek

Who are the Greeks Paul is to referring to here?

https://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/cms/what-is-the-difference-between-a-greek-and-a-gentile/

KnownUnknown:


Possibly because she was a descendant of Hellenes who resided in the Seleucid empire.

Mr Man stop confabulating.
The syrophoenician woman is a Canaanite my friend. The bible called her a canaanite by tribe.
But the book of mark referred to her as a greek woman. Why?
By now your conscience already knows the answer. But your stubbornness will not let u admit.

SIRTee15:


Mr Man stop confabulating.
The syrophoenician woman is a Canaanite my friend. The bible called her was a canaanite by tribe.
But the book of mark referred to her as a greek woman. Why?
By now your conscience already knows the answer. But your stubbornness will not let u admit.

https://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/cms/what-is-the-difference-between-a-greek-and-a-gentile/

The book of mark referred to her as a Greek woman where?

It's you that's fighting with your conscience

SIRTee15:




Did any of the apostolic fathers in the first century AD confirmed Jesus is God.

Before the apostolic fathers and Paul, was Jesus confirmed as God by the Jewish followers that followed Jesus?

Who is Paul or is it Saul, who made him an apostle?

SIRTee15:

Paul wrote in his book to the Romans...

For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek

I’m not Roman, Greek, or Jew, so Paul’s delusion or shame is no concern of mine. I find the god of the Hebrews to be the most repulsive creature in all of literature and the concept of “salvation” to be an utter joke.

SIRTee15:

Who are the Greeks Paul is to referring to here?

Probably the greeks that settled in Ptolemaic and Seleucid area or maybe Hellenized Jews.

SIRTee15:

Mr Man stop confabulating.
The syrophoenician woman is a Canaanite my friend. The bible called her a canaanite by tribe.
But the book of mark referred to her as a greek woman. Why?
By now your conscience already knows the answer. But your stubbornness will not let u admit.

Consult a map of the Seleucid and Ptolemaic empires so you can see why the woman was called a Greek like you asked. I guess you can also call her a Canaanite if that helps you.

SIRTee15:


All your response makes no sense. It was better if u had kept quiet.
Gesture and translator indeed.

Now let's see the the correct answers to my questions.
What is the lingua Franca in the eastern province of the Roman empire?
Pls refer to my chat gpt screenshot for answer.

I understand you’re woefully uneducated.

KnownUnknown:


I understand you’re woefully uneducated.

What's the lingua Franca in the eastern Roman empire during the time of jesus.
Ignore my illiteracy, just answer the question.

Don't be a coward who chickens out when confronted with facts.
Either stick to your earlier claim or retract it.

KnownUnknown:


I’m not Roman, Greek, or Jew, so Paul’s delusion or shame is no concern of mine. I find the god of the Hebrews to be the most repulsive creature in all of literature and the concept of “salvation” to be an utter joke.



Probably the greeks that settled in Ptolemaic and Seleucid area or maybe Hellenized Jews.



Consult a map of the Seleucid and Ptolemaic empires so you can see why the woman was called a Greek like you asked. I guess you can also call her a Canaanite if that helps you.

Your opinion about the God of the bible is the least of my interest.
Just learn to keep shut if u had no idea what u talking about otherwise u go chop dust.
U are not the first and definitely not the last. U don't believe in the bible stick your nose out of it.


One of u initially here insisted Jesus was a myth. After slapping him with hard facts and enormous dose of core truth, he has finally admitted Jesus died but didn't resurrect.
Now I'm about to work on his brain to see the resurrection of Jesus as real.

John 12.20

Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus

SIRTee15:


Your opinion about the God of the bible is the least of my interest.
Just learn to keep shut if u had no idea what u talking about otherwise u go chop dust.
U are not the first and definitely not the last. U don't believe in the bible stick your nose out of it.


One of u initially here insisted Jesus was a myth. After slapping him with hard facts and enormous dose of core truth, he has finally admitted Jesus died but didn't resurrect.
Now I'm about to work on his brain to see the resurrection of Jesus as real.

John 12.20

Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus

Jesus is a myth. Quoting stories from the Bible doesn’t detract from that fact. What is that quote supposed to prove anyway? This is what follows:

23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

SIRTee15:


What's the lingua Franca in the eastern Roman empire during the time of jesus.
Ignore my illiteracy, just answer the question.

Don't be a coward who chickens out when confronted with facts.
Either stick to your earlier claim or retract it.

Greek being the lingua Franca still doesn’t detract from the fact that your exposure to Christianity came from England.

kimco:


You must have evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Sight is one way but even our senses can be deceptive. So you need to scrutinize it. Example if I see Chris Angel walking on water, my skeptical brain would like to know how he did it. How did he defy the laws of physics? I cannot just believe it just because I saw it. You understand me?

And that's if you saw it with you own two eyes.

Now imagine being told to believe a story you read in a book where Chris Angel walked on water.

I can only conclude that you have a well developed brain and a mind that you know how to use, and need to understand we are not all smart like you are.

SIRTee15:


John 12.20

Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus

I thought we trashed this before?

https://biblehub.com/greek/1672.htm

SIRTee15:





One of u initially here insisted Jesus was a myth. After slapping him with hard facts and enormous dose of core truth, he has finally admitted Jesus died but didn't resurrect.
Now I'm about to work on his brain to see the resurrection of Jesus as real.

Who is the person?

Jesus Christ is a composite character and never existed.

Which sect did John the Baptist belong to?

KnownUnknown:


Jesus is a myth. Quoting stories from the Bible doesn’t detract from that fact. What is that quote supposed to prove anyway? This is what follows:

23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

The verse proved some of Jesus disciples could communicate in greek. So the anonymous authorship claim of the gospel is nonsense.

Maynman:

Who is the person?

Jesus Christ is a composite character and never existed.

Which sect did John the Baptist belong to?

See Cognitive dissonance on display.
Is this not u. What shall we believe from your mouth?