Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology - Religion - Nairaland
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Ministry To Jws, Part 9 - Christ's Presence / The Year 1914 When Jesus began ruling in heaven / Who Told Jehovah Witness That Jesus Returned In 1914? (2) (3) (4)
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| Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by Sand2022: 4:50pm On Oct 19, 2023 |
In their Enjoy Life Book, JWs says this: "The Bible book of Daniel indicated that God’s Kingdom would begin ruling at the end of a period called “seven times.” (Daniel 4:16, 17)" That scripture was not discussing when God's kingdom by Jesus will rule in the future. It was discussing Nebuchadnezzar's rule. What will be the result after seven years? That place they cited says: "so that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind.' So what will happen to Nebuchadnezzar will show that God is already a Ruler in the Kingdom of mankind. What about the seven times? The JWs according to that book Enjoy Life says that the seven times means 2520 years. How did they arrive at this? At Rev 12:6 mention was made of 1,260 days. These days is said to be the same as "a time, times and half a time" in verse 14. In other words 3 and half times. Now Dan 4:16 above mentioned seven times. This will mean two "3 and half times". Therefore since 3 and half times stands for 1260 days, two "3 and half times" will equal 2520 days. Then using the formula of a day for a year, we have 2520 years. If you count this from 607 when they believe Jerusalem was destroyed, we land in 1914. There is a problem with this calculation. It is true that 3 and half times amounts to 1260 days as that scripture shows, but that only applies in days, not years. In other words, when ever you want to convert 3 and half times to days, you should get 1260 days. But when ever you want to convert 3 and half times to years, it amounts to 3 and half years, not 1260 years. See how it goes: 1260 days equals approx to 3 years and a half year. In the bible one month equals 30 days. So if I am 2 years old. If you want to convert that my age to days, it will be 720 days. But it will be wrong that in trying to convert it to years, you now say that I am 720 years. No na. This is consistent with all the biblical mention of a time, times and half a time in the bible. It's yearly conversion is always 3 and half years, but in days, it is 1260 days. It is believed, even by JWs, that the seven times of Nebuchadnezzar amounted to seven years. This also supports that idea that conversion into years is 3 and half years, not 1260 years. 2. The book went further to say concerning the 1914: "Centuries later, Jesus referred to that same time period as “the appointed times of the nations,” and he taught that it had not yet ended. (Luke 21:24) As we will see, the seven times ended in the year 1914." Luke 21:24 doesn't have any link to what happened in Jerusalem when Babylonians came to destroy them in 607 BCE according to JW chronology. Notice that the book linked the appointed times in Luke 21:24 to the statement of Daniel 4:16, namely, seven times. However, the witnesses do not teach that Nebuchadnezzar had his dream in 607 BCE. So how can the seven times of Nebuchadnezzar start to count from 607 BCE.? Secondly, let's look at what Jesus actually said from their translation. From verse 20: However, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains, let those in the midst of her leave, and let those in the countryside not enter into her, 22 because these are days for meting out justice in order that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled." Notice that the whole verse is futuristic. Verse 24 starts off by saying that " they WILL fall by the edge of the sword". And then, " Jerusalem WILL be trampled on..." So Jesus is just saying what had not yet happened, but what WILL happen in the future. Some might say that the " WILL be" in that verse in Greek is just " will be being" as to indicate a present continuous action. But it doesn't make sense, because the WILL indicating a future action is there. One scholar proposed a better interpretation. He says this Greek means that Jerusalem will be trampled on and continue so till the appointed times of the nations is complete. That make more sense. Also notice that the verse 24 started off with "they WILL fall by the edge of the sword". So that WILL there indicates future trampling of Jerusalem and not a trampling that happened as far back as 607 BCE. Jerusalem in that book of Luke is not davidic line of rulers, it is clearly the city of Jerusalem. Thirdly, Jesus became a king in the first century. JWs will have us believe that Jesus was just sitting on God's right hand till 1914 when he climbed a throne. That is directly contradicted by 1 Cor 15:25. It says: 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet." Before his enemies is put under his feet, he has to be a ruler. Fourthly, Jesus while on earth made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem as a king. Matt 21: 5 “Tell the daughter of Zion: ‘Look! Your king is coming to you, mild-tempered and mounted on a donkey, yes, on a colt, the offspring of a beast of burden.’” That fulfilled in the first century not in 1914. Another point is, if Jesus became king in 1914, then the ruler of the world is Jesus, not Satan. It will interest you to know that the JWs see Daniel 7:14 to have been fulfilled in 1914. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed. If it did fulfill in 1914, then Jesus is the ruler of the world. The whole world is serving him. Why call Satan again. Another point that shows that he should be ruler of the world is at Rev 11:15 15 The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.” So it is contradictory to still say that Satan is the ruler of the world. This is part of my ministry to you witnesses, what you do with it is your choice. 4 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:29pm On Oct 19, 2023 |
MaxInDHouse: 1 Like |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by Emusan(m): 2:13pm On Feb 01 |
Well detailed article. The most astonish part is that not only do scholars agree that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587BC there's archeological evidence of the destruction dated to the same period. So for Watchtower to continue to use 607BC as the year Jerusalem was destroyed shows how dishonest they are. 2 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by johnw47: 5:23am On Feb 03 |
Sand2022: no wonder those so called Jehovah's witnesses ran away from your thread they prefer to hold onto their org's. lies 4 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:53am On Feb 03 |
johnw47:If he truly wants to discuss this let him show his interest by clicking on: https://www.nairaland.com/7976247/what-year-1914 God's people don't have to convince everybody it's interests that makes someone like me listen to them and believe in 1914 as the year Jesus began ruling it heaven!  |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:07am On Feb 03 |
Emusan:They are not members of Jehovah's Witnesses yet they both have this to say: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIiJP1JkxsQ?si=82uRI74dW2LAqFcp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wdDvys2z6k?si=nTReVo2Wx__Quest |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by Emusan(m): 9:51am On Feb 03 |
MaxInDHouse: You haven't provided where God gave a SPECIFIC DATE that the Jews left Babylon from the scripture as you early claimed, so that we can add 70years to it to arrive at 607BC. You're still roaming about YouTube fighting with your conscience with the truth instead of just providing GOD'S WORD. Is YouTube greater than God's Word? I know in your search for validation on YouTube you also came across videos that supported 587BC but rejected it because it's not inline with what you want. So, you can reject archeological evidence and MOST Scholarly works that support 587BC and embrace just a random people. Well, the truth is Jerusalem destruction took place in 587BC which shows that 1914 is a scam and just wait few more years where NEW LIGHT will happen from Watchtower then you'll reflect back on how you're defending this scam, you'll realise it's not good to defend lie. Thou I know you don't have shame! 3 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by johnw47: 10:32am On Feb 03 |
MaxInDHouse: lost false jw mad max he has shown his interest in false jw's 1914 doctrine by starting his own thread on it which you ran from telling other false jw's also to avoid the thread, with the weak excuse; "because he hasn't mentioned the name of his church" MaxInDHouse: truly God's people are not liars and paranoid saying things like: johnw47 and olaadegbu and emusan are the same person, repeating it over and over again convincing other false jw's to believe you, which they did that's what you people do, your org. teaches you lies and you teach each other lies false jw's are liars like the devil: Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies. paranoia is fear: rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. 2 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by johnw47: 10:54am On Feb 03 |
AnAbnormalHuman wasn't here long before he got to know about the false jw's, mad max in particular, here is some of what he said to mad max: AnAbnormalHuman: so true AnAbnormalHuman: 3 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MightySparrow: 9:14am On Feb 05 |
MaxInDHouse: These two apologists conclusions are hazy. I have discussed this topic with you before. I was researching into end times myself. I gathered books on religion: Islam and Christianity, psychics, like Nostradamus Mitchell, Edgar Cayce, Mummy Simpsons, Catholic Bishop Malachy, and science as many sources of references and JWs book on prophecy of Daniel as a pilot for Christian religion apart from Lindsay brothers and few others. Internet also and history texts. Then scientific view about the fate of the earth. I just did independent studies spanning months. Then, there were discrepancies in names and times of rulers and times in the Prophecy of Daniel and professional historical chronology. As I continued to search, I stumbled on two sceptics from Jws: Carl Olof Jonsson and Franz whose book was reviewed by the first person. My discovery from others are not relevant here. That of Jws and dates is the topic. The first one didn't do justice to the topic. He only explained or drew his conclusions from about first two to five chapters of the book. The other book, 'Time of Gentiles Reconsidered' Hy Carl Olof Jonsson is more researched, carefully researched and organized. In it he had to engage one professor Furuli, the leading chronicler of watchtower. Although, the man, Furuli, was an expert in Assyrian language, he was not an historian. He misled the organization. Anyway all these three were later disfellowshiped for their works. I think Furuli realized his error and joined force with the other two. Every religious group has it's dogma but that doesn't make it right. You know, I am a Christian, I consider myself one, and I am. I try to analyze things myself no matter who teach them. I am a pentecostal, I believe it is safe for me. I read wide inspite of that and draw my own conclusions. I feel that 1914 and all it's appendages are not right. I don't quite agree with it. .cheers 2 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by Emusan(m): 10:25am On Feb 05 |
MightySparrow: This looks like the transcript from the videos. The funny thing is he didn't even know that the video is against his claim, he was deceived with the title just as Watchtower is deceiving him with fake love and smile. In fact, the first video is from an exjws, that is to tell you the length he can go to look for validation. He was the first to comment on this thread advised his fellow JWs to stay away, he is the same person parading this thread. Very pathetic! |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:45am On Feb 05 |
MightySparrow:It's OK since no one is forcing this on anyone each person will have to choose what to believe. Thanks! |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by Emusan(m): 10:46am On Feb 05 |
MaxInDHouse: Shut up, you're forcing it! Not when you're even posting an apostate video as evidence.   Shameless lying liar JWs! |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:01am On Feb 05 |
Emusan: You don't know the meaning of FORCE! I presented my beliefs you asked questions and i answered then you said you're not satisfied so i told you it's not compulsory that you believe but you keep pestering me saying it's a wrong belief. Now who is forcing his opinion? I that i have something to present or you that feels no one should present his beliefs as long as it differs from what the majority believe? |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by Emusan(m): 11:43am On Feb 05 |
MaxInDHouse: Force is when no historical or archeological support for you claim, yet want people to accept it. I presented my beliefs you asked questions and i answered then you said you're not satisfied so i told you it's not compulsory that you believe but you keep pestering me saying it's a wrong belief. You answered with another lie. Are you blind to see that the videos you posted didn't support your claim? Are you blind to my post and that of @Courz where we stated that one of the videos is even from exjws? Now who is forcing his opinion? Well, I never say you shouldn't present your belief but BACK IT UP WITH FACT! Or you want me to swallow your belief that has no historical and archeological support? You are the one who want us to accept your claim without concrete fact. If you think you don't force your belief. Then provide: 1. The historical and archeological evidence that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607BC 2. Provide Biblical scholar who supported the date of 607BC 3. The evidence that God says days will automatically change to years as your 2520 days to 2520years. 4. Provide the scripture where God gave a SPECIFIC DATE that the Jews left Babylon as you early claimed. I'm waiting.... 2 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:37pm On Feb 05 |
Emusan:Here you go! Whatever anyone BELIEVES is tantamount to a lie before someone else. For instance to a Muslim, an atheist, a Judaists, an Hindu, a Buddhist or a traditionalist whatever you claim about Jesus or Bible is LIES yet that's what you choose to believe. So if they ask you questions and you've given them the answer but they insisted they're not convinced of course you can't force it into their brains some will accept and join you while others will see you as a brainwashed religionist. Emusan:Whatever you think about my beliefs is not the problem here since there are many religions around you that doesn't agree with yours so if i say "this is my beliefs" all you need to do is walk away peacefully as you would do to others since each religion has their beliefs and there is contradictions everywhere. So if you're insisting on questioning my beliefs out of thousands of beliefs out there that's all contradicting themselves then something is wrong somewhere! |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by Emusan(m): 12:44pm On Feb 05 |
MaxInDHouse: No rational human being discards evidence and even God supported it. You make a claim then you were asked to back it up with fact, you claim people are against your belief. That's pure delusion! Whatever you think about my beliefs is not the problem here since there are many religions around you that doesn't agree with yours so if i say "this is my beliefs" all you need to do is walk away peacefully as you would do to others since each religion has their beliefs and there is contradictions everywhere. He couldn't address any of those point. He couldn't address why he provided videos that actually go against his claim I didn't questioning your belief I only DEMAND FOR THE EVIDENCE that support your claims. If that's how things work, then why do you also reject others people's belief? But as lying liar JWs, you must twist everything. Have you ever asked someone to SHOW YOU WHERE JESUS CALLED HIMSELF GOD? Why did you ask and not just accept that Jesus is God Almighty? Hypocrite! 2 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 1:01pm On Feb 05 |
Emusan:Just exactly what an Atheist or Agnostic or Judaist will tell you too. That's why you either walk away or accept each religion as part of the human society as they all have rights to their claims whatever as long as they're not forcing it on you! Emusan:Note that i never pester anyone over that all i do is present my own beliefs regarding who is Jesus but if we aren't on the same page i will walk away it's not by force. But it's people like you that always insist others must agree with you when you can easily talk to another person since i have made my stand clear to you on the topic! |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by Emusan(m): 1:11pm On Feb 05 |
MaxInDHouse: You don't walk away, rather you present your EVIDENCE! Stop this nonsense! Note that i never pester anyone over that all i do is present my own beliefs regarding who is Jesus but if we aren't on the same page i will walk away it's not by force. Have you asked someone to SHOW YOU where Jesus called Himself God? Why did you ask if not because you want BIBLICAL FACT? Lying liar JWs. But it's people like you that always insist others must agree with you when you can easily talk to another person since i have made my stand clear to you on the topic! You claim Jerusalem was destroyed in 607BC and when I said NO! You provided two videos to SUPPORT your claim, why didn't you just continue to say yes that is my belief and I stand by it? Why providing those videos? Now that your videos were busted, you're now ranting. 2 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MightySparrow: 2:07pm On Feb 05 |
MaxInDHouse:Hahahaha I am laughing in JWs paradise's language. 2 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MightySparrow: 2:09pm On Feb 05 |
Emusan: He is blinded by conceit 3 Likes |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by Aemmyjah(m): 2:28pm On Feb 05 |
MaxInDHouse: I disagree with you sir He does not want us to agree with him on anything It's only one group his baseless argument seems to make him relevant on the forum |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by Aemmyjah(m): 2:52pm On Feb 05 |
MaxInDHouse: He wants the message where they only teach him about Mammon, god of money |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 3:30pm On Feb 05 |
Emusan:We weren't sent to arguing once the other person feels he has the truth all we are to do is show him or her the benefits true disciples of Christ will have so if you're not interested in the benefits we will walk away, arguing won't settle the matter. The reason why most of you are disturbed regarding what we presented as evidence is because you're confused as to what you have after considering the benefits Jesus promised his true followers so you're so worried that you can't let go. If other religions tell you that you will suffer in Hellfire for not subscribing to their doctrines you won't bother but you're somehow worried because JWs have something unique so you are really disturbed! Emusan:If you are convinced that you have busted lies then why not go and continue discussing with others afterall you have satisfied yourself that we are lying? Ọmọ you have nothing to gain disturbing yourself after you have discovered liars but the problem is that you're terrified that we have what others don't have that's why you can't let go but i am not interested in arguing with you!  |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 3:31pm On Feb 05 |
MightySparrow:That's good since we have no reason pestering one another so go and worship your God while i worship mine! |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 3:32pm On Feb 05 |
MightySparrow: Blinded just like millions of other religions that see you too as blinded! |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 3:36pm On Feb 05 |
Aemmyjah:Of course he wants us to agree with him on one thing: We should stop going to preach and teach the people in our neighbourhood rather we should leave all the religions claiming they're Christians around him. But at the same time he failed to attack OLAADEGBU who keeps condemning SCOAN on the forum. So he is a typical hypocrite! |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 3:37pm On Feb 05 |
Aemmyjah:✓ |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MightySparrow: 4:46pm On Feb 05 |
MaxInDHouse: No fight nah. |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by Aemmyjah(m): 5:25pm On Feb 05 |
MightySparrow: I'm laughing in pastorpreneur tongue 'Bring money and receive |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:09pm On Feb 05 |
MightySparrow:You know that without getting assurance from me there's big trouble for you regarding what the judgment day will mean for you yet you're dribbling yourself. Well all i said is: "go and worship your God while i worship mine" I can't figure out how that has turn to fight if you're sure of your God! |
| Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:11pm On Feb 05 |
Aemmyjah:He is really scared because he is convinced down in his heart that JWs have something truly unique yet he wants to follow the crowd in criticizing God's people! |
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