DeepSight:


Well perhaps certain elementary things about God are knowable, but IT remains unknowable in its fullness - by this I mean ineffable and incomprehensible - but the lines here are so subtle I would not wish to argue the point.

How do you know all this?

Also why does the first vibration of existence have all these attributes? Is it to make it mysterious?
What about the second and third vibration of existence?

What's the use of the first vibration of existence?
Existence itself is all around.

Aemmyjah:


You're the atheists
Cunningly trying to create this thread
Atheists have nothing meaningful to teach
Just doubt nd confusion to enforce on others or subtly try to make them to adopt
Faith is not, was not and will never be illogical
Atheism is the definition of illogism

Au contraire, I am the umpire, playing devil's advocate for both sides.

Are you sure you are not your religion mainly because it is something you were born into? Are you sure if you were born in Saudi Arabia you won't be a moslem? What logical steps led you to your religion?
Speaking of which, "logical" is: from A you have to go through B to get to C. Faith is from A you can get to Z without the intervening steps of B, C, D, etc.

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Seun, HopefulLandlord, LordReed, Jaephoenix
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PoliteActivist:


Speaking of which, "logical" is: from A you have to go through B to get to C. Faith is from A you can get to Z without the intervening steps of B, C, D, etc.

I dont think its fair to characterize all people of faith as believing in voodoo or magic as the bold tends to suggest. Many people of faith believe that their God will hold them by the hand from A through B, C, D, E, all the way, step by step through to Z.

DeepSight:


I am not an atheist either. God exists, but is unknowable.

Soo, what led you to the position that God exists? Or are we to just take your word for it?

Maynthemayn:

How do you know all this?

Also why does the first vibration of existence have all these attributes? Is it to make it mysterious?
What about the second and third vibration of existence?

What's the use of the first vibration of existence?
Existence itself is all around.

Perhaps so.
Look, I dont really know anything. I just offer my perception and intuition here and there. Discard them if they dont strike a chord or resonate with you.

DeepSight:


Perhaps so.
Look, I dont really know anything. I just offer my perception and intuition here and there. Discard them if they dont strike a chord or resonate with you.

your god is part of existence, I got that sha.

PoliteActivist:


Soo, what led you to the position that God exists? Or are we to just take your word for it?

I already explained to Lordreed in the other thread you created and you were following. So I neednt repeat myself.
There is logic enough to infer the existence of God.

However it is not just logic. I have long described myself as a rational and intuitive deist.
So, beyond logic, there is also intuition.

Maynthemayn:

your god is part of existence, I got that sha.

You use the word "existence" in an odd way.
Of course anything that exists is "part of existence."

How is that a problem.

PoliteActivist:


Au contraire, I am the umpire, playing devil's advocate for both sides.

Are you sure you are not your religion mainly because it is something you were born into? Are you sure if you were born in Saudi Arabia you won't be a moslem? What logical steps led you to your religion?
Speaking of which, "logical" is: from A you have to go through B to get to C. Faith is from A you can get to Z without the intervening steps of B, C, D, etc.

To illustrate
It's like a Chelsea fan referring a champions league final game against Manchester united

Like the OP, your comments are unfittig

DeepSight:


You use the word "existence" in an odd way.
Of course anything that exists is "part of existence."

How is that a problem.

So why is your god needed since your god is part of it?

Maynthemayn:

So why is your god needed since your god is part of it?

I think this is a self contradictory question.

God is a necessary being. If you dont understand that term in philosophy please read here -

https://rintintin.colorado.edu/~vancecd/phil3600/PVI1.pdf

For anything to exist at all, something or the other must self exist.

God self exists.

DeepSight:


I am not an atheist either. God exists, but is unknowable.

How do you know God exists if he's unknowable?

DeepSight:


I think this is a self contradictory question.

God is a necessary being. If you dont understand that term in philosophy please read here -

https://rintintin.colorado.edu/~vancecd/phil3600/PVI1.pdf

For anything to exist at all, something or the other must self exist.

God self exists.

But your god is already existing as the first vibration of existence?
Why is your god then needed??

You are the one contradicting yourself.

Aemmyjah:


How do you know God exists if he's unknowable?

You can know a thing or person or entity exists without knowing its nature.
I know you exist, and yet I dont know your character.

Maynthemayn:

But your god is already existing as the first vibration of existence?

You are the one contradicting yourself.

The way you use the word "existence" is very confusing to me.
Its possible I am contradicting myself but I do know I honestly cannot cope with the way you are using that word, so i have to let it be.
Cheers.

DeepSight:


The way you use the word "existence" is very confusing to me.
Its possible I am contradicting myself but I do know I honestly cannot cope with the way you are using that word, so i have to let it be.
Cheers.

There was never a time existence didn't exist, I might even agree that your god is the first vibration, then why is your god needed?


Existence means being, it's there in your philosophy too. Check it out.

Maynthemayn:

There was never a time existence didn't exist, I might even agree that your god is the first vibration, then why is your god needed?


Existence means being, it's there in your philosophy too. Check it out.

As for the bold, I agree, even though you have written in an odd manner again.
Good Afternoon.

DeepSight:


As for the bold, I agree, even though you have written in an odd manner again.
Good Afternoon.

That's what made it Possible for your to "self exist".

I am using it the right way, it's you that should rewind.

Universe means everything that existence, so why is your god needed when its also part of everything that existence?

DeepSight:


I dont think its fair to characterize all people of faith as believing in voodoo or magic as the bold tends to suggest. Many people of faith believe that their God will hold them by the hand from A through B, C, D, E, all the way, step by step through to Z.

It is not voodoo AT ALL! It is the essence of faith!
In Hebrews 11 St. Paul says "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see".
How is being SURE of what you hope for logical? How is it logical to believe an entity can say something and it happens just like that - and that's how the universe was created? Faith is not, and doesn't claim to be, logical

Maynthemayn:

That's what made it Possible for your to "self exist".

I am using it the right way, it's you that should rewind.

Universe means everything that existence, so why is your god needed when its also part of everything that existence?

I dont know.
Good afternoon.

PoliteActivist:


It is not voodoo AT ALL! It is the essence of faith!
In Hebrews 11 St. Paul says "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see".
How is being SURE of what you hope for logical? How is it logical to believe an entity can say something and it happens just like that - and that's how the universe was created. Faith is not, and doesn't claim to be, logical

There are levels to logic.

A seer who sees the future in his dreams can hope for a thing invisible to you, and yet not be illogical.

DeepSight:


I dont know.
Good afternoon.

You already have a lot of assumptions about this god which is influenced by the Monotheistic gods around you.
Everyone knows that a creation needs a creator but why do you assume that universe is a creation?


Also you say it's an unknown god, the Greeks, agnostos, worships it too.

Maynthemayn:

You already have a lot of assumptions about this god which is influenced by the Monotheistic gods around you.
Everyone knows that a creation needs a creator but why do you assume that universe is a creation?


Also you say it's an unknown god, the Greeks, agnostos, worships it too.

I said I dont know. And I withdraw all my statements.
Good afternoon.

Maynthemayn:

You already have a lot of assumptions about this god which is influenced by the Monotheistic gods around you.
Everyone knows that a creation needs a creator but why do you assume that universe is a creation?


Also you say it's an unknown god, the Greeks, agnostos, worships it too.

I said I dont know. And I withdraw all my statements.
Good afternoon.

DeepSight:


You can know a thing or person or entity exists without knowing its nature.
I know you exist, and yet I dont know your character.

On what basis do you know that I exist?
You don't know all about me but you cannot say I'm unknowable

DeepSight:


There are levels to logic.

A seer who sees the future in his dreams can hope for a thing invisible to you, and yet not be illogical.

Lol, this seer is a fraud.
The future and the past does not exist, only this present moment exist, and it is eternity.

DeepSight:


I said I dont know. And I withdraw all my statements.
Good afternoon.

Good, you know you don't know.

Maynthemayn:

Lol, this seer is a fraud.
The future and the past does not exist, only this present moment exist, and it is eternity.

If eternity is one forever moment, then time is still and if that be the case one can look to the left and and behold the past or even go there and one can look to the right and behold the future and even go there.

DeepSight:


There are levels to logic.

A seer who sees the future in his dreams can hope for a thing invisible to you, and yet not be illogical.

A seer SEES something. Faith doesn't require you see anything. It is being SURE your incurable cancer will soon be cured. It is placebo effect. It is NOT meant to be logical!

PoliteActivist:


A seer SEES something. Faith doesn't require you see anything. It is being SURE your incurable cancer will soon be cured. It is placebo effect. It is NOT meant to be logical!

The seer still has faith in what he beholds. Without that, he would dismiss the dream as a dream.

DeepSight:


If eternity is one forever moment, then time is still and if that be the case one can look to the left and and behold the past or even go there and one can look to the right and behold the future and even go there.

What's one forever moment?
You are always in the moment.

Lol, are you not already using the moment to
look left and right?

Moment to Moment, that's it.

Aemmyjah:


On what basis do you know that I exist?

Unless I am hallucinating your responses or you are a bot, both of which seem eminently unlikely to me.

You don't know all about me but you cannot say I'm unknowable

Because you are not transcendent. You are a mortal being living in this same world with me.