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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? (3774 Views)
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Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Ohyoudidnt: 11:40am On Apr 01 |
TenQ: 1. Arians see Jesus as the greatest of all creation. By Arianism, Jesus is considered the first and highest of all created beings, but not God Himself. 2. Define monotheist Christianity? Is there Polytheist Christianity? I understand monotheism. 3. In as much as you have no issues using Catholic or Jehovah witness views. However the sects you mention have been used by you covertly by depending on a wide variety on different types of hadith. 4. Your question indeed is a misnomer. How can you say a Unitary God is made of 3 separate entities? Is there not a contradiction or paradox? How do you explain an essential unitary God that is a plurality in persons? 5. Again like the Pharisee priests you aim to distort the scripture. Your statement is false as the translation of the meaning of that verse is بِسْمِ اللّٰهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيْمِ لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِیْنَ قَالُوْۤا اِنَّ اللّٰهَ هُوَ الْمَسِیْحُ ابْنُ مَرْیَمَ١ؕ وَ قَالَ الْمَسِیْحُ یٰبَنِیْۤ اِسْرَآءِیْلَ اعْبُدُوا اللّٰهَ رَبِّیْ وَ رَبَّكُمْ١ؕ اِنَّهٗ مَنْ یُّشْرِكْ بِاللّٰهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللّٰهُ عَلَیْهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَ مَاْوٰىهُ النَّارُ١ؕ وَ مَا لِلظّٰلِمِیْنَ مِنْ اَنْصَارٍ Muhammad Pickthall They surely disbelieve who say: LolAllah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. -Saheeh International They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. Yusuf Ali They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. Quran5:72 6. Is there a question as you have confidently lied that Allah is the Messiah. May Allah forbid |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Ohyoudidnt: 11:42am On Apr 01 |
TenQ: Coward. Even behind the internet cover you can't say? A big pity |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 11:47am On Apr 01 |
Qasim6: Who was the first Muslim according to Qur'an? Option 1. Muhammed Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). Quran 39:11-12 He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and I am first of those who surrender (unto Him). Quran 6:163 Option 2. Noah And if you turn away [from my advice] then no payment have I asked of you. My reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims." Quran 10:72 Option 3. Lot and his family And We found not within them other than a [single] house of Muslims. Quran 51:36 Option 3 Abraham And strive for Allah with the striving due to Him. He has chosen you and has not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. [It is] the religion of your father, Abraham. Allah named you "Muslims" before [in former scriptures] and in this [revelation] that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you may be witnesses over the people. So establish prayer and give zakah and hold fast to Allah. He is your protector; and excellent is the protector, and excellent is the helper. Quran 22:78 Option 4. The disciples of Jesus And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims" Quran 5:111 Option 5. Moses When Moses came at the appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he asked, “My Lord! Reveal Yourself to me so I may see You.” Allah answered, “You cannot see Me! But look at the mountain. If it remains firm in its place, only then will you see Me.” When his Lord appeared to the mountain, He levelled it to dust and Moses collapsed unconscious. When he recovered, he cried, “Glory be to You! I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers ” Quran 7.143 Choose only one option. Note there's negative marking- guessing is frowned upon in theology. If U don't know, say U don't know 1 Like |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Kobojunkie: 11:57am On Apr 01 |
Dsimmer:These are all part of the ridiculous ideas culled from religion -- lies -- i am afraid. |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 12:28pm On Apr 01 |
Qasim6: Stop all these intellectual dishonesty. I'm not interested in any vague interpretation. There different spirits mentioned in the bible including spirit of wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel. There's also unclean spirit and spirit of evil. Isaiah 42 is talking about spirit of God. The manifestation of the spirit of God empowers a prophet to prophecy and speak for God. Go back and read the numbers 11 U quoted starting from v 24. Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took some of the power of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied—but did not do so again. The Koranic verses U brought here mentioned a spirit accompanying an angel. Whose spirit? Did it rest on Muhammed? Angels don't have the holy spirit. They are spiritual beings themselves and bible called them ministering spirits. The 2nd verse mentioned holy spirit. As far as I'm aware in islam, the holy spirit is angel Gabriel. So don't know how that relates. Isaiah 42 is not talking about angel Gabriel. Pls bring an explicit statement that said the spirit of God rested on Muhammed. Not someone sending an unknown spirit thru an angel. One of the problem christians have with Muhammed prophethood is that there's no evidence he spoke to God directly nor did the spirit of God rest on him. So how did he receive his revelations? We don't have a problem with Jesus being servant of God. Peter confirmed Jesus to be servant of God. Read about hypostasis union. Acts 3 13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.” 1 Like |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Onyedikachi231: 12:31pm On Apr 01 |
SIRTee15: Where was I, hope this argument is still on |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 1:13pm On Apr 01 |
Qasim6: Of course, U have read the bible and Talmud plus historical knowledge to know it's stupid for Jews to have killed their Messiah. My friend, show me where it says in your Koran that the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah. Abi is this not your Koran affirming Israelites believe in Jesus as the Messiah. They surely disbelieve who say: Lol Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. Messiah was mentioned 11 times in your Koran, no where was it mentioned as a form or mockery or ridicule. According to the Koran, Jesus was given the name Messiah from birth. That means his mum was meant to call him Messiah while growing up. What absurdity. I can imagine Mary going about in Galilee telling people the name of her son messiah I doubt she will last a day b4 being stoned to death for blasphemy. [And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allāh gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allāh]. Whoever wrote your Koran either Muhammed or Allah goofed big time about Messiah. He had no idea what Messiah even meant. 1 Like |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by TenQ: 2:46pm On Apr 01 |
Islam has nothing to stand up upon except falsehood, this is why to answer simple questions is impossible for you. You never surprise me one bit. You will be asked a question BUT you will answer your own prefered questions. Ohyoudidnt:I did not ask you if the Arians beleive that Jesus is God. My Question was: 1. Is it true that in Arianism, Jesus Christ is seen as the first and greatest of God's creations, through whom God created the universe? Again: Is it TRUE the Arians teach that Jesus is the means by which God created the Universe? Ohyoudidnt:You were the one who started with how Christians Derailed from Monotheism : specifically ("How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism; The Difference From Arianism" According to you, are Arians not practicing the monotheism from which the mainstream Christians derailed? So, if you do not understand the phrase "monotheist Christianity", too bad. Again the Question was: 2. Is Arianism the correct version of monotheist Christianity of Jesus Christ? According to you, Are the Arians the correct version of Christianity? Its just a Yes or No answer! Ohyoudidnt:Can you show me one Tafsir or Hadith or Sirah of the Shia or Ahmadiyya I have ever used for you or anyone on Nairaland? Al-Kafi By Abu Jafar; Muhammad Ibn Ya’kub Kulayni. Man la Yahduru l Faqih By Abu Jafar; Muhammad Ibn Ali (Sheikh Saduq). Tahdhib al-Ahkam By Abu Jafar; Muhammad Ibn Hassan (Sheikh Tusi). Istibsar By Abu Jafar; Muhammad Ibn Hassan (Sheikh Tusi). Have I accidentally used any of these four books for you? If you cant find on, kindly respond to my question. My Question: 3. Do you consider it right and okay for me to use the doctrine of the Ahmadiyya or Shia muslims to set the standard of faith for you Sunni Muslims? The answer is either it is right or it is not right.... Ohyoudidnt:Your ability to box your God into the similitude of a unitary stone or house or item is beyond comprehension. This is the limitation of your Taoheed: it is impossible for your Allah to be Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent. Here is the answer to your question again! https://www.nairaland.com/8013043/muslims-oblivious-serious-flaws-taoheed/24#129074956 https://www.nairaland.com/8013043/muslims-oblivious-serious-flaws-taoheed/24#129075282 However, this wasn't my Question you answered: My Question was: 4. Can you show with evidence a single Christian doctrine that asserts two or more distinct God's (Different from the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit being the same God)? Except as usual of your strawman strategies, it shouldn't be difficult to find some evidence against Christians. Ohyoudidnt:It seems your problem is lack of comprehendsion of simple English Language My Question was: 5. Is it untrue that Even your Allah says we Christians assert that Allah is the Messiah and not Jesus is a second or third Allah? And I quoted the Quran Qur'an 5:72 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! [color=red]Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. [/color] Pardon me sir: Who are those who Allah claim that Allah is the Messiah, ? Ohyoudidnt:I hope you have corrected your English language comprehension: if you have done so, The Question Again: 6. If Allah is the Messiah (according to the christians), who then is the partner with Allah? |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Ohyoudidnt: 2:47pm On Apr 01 |
Lawag3: Why does John's Gospel alone say so amongst the Gospels? In the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus does not explicitly refer to himself as God. Instead, he primarily focuses on teachings about God, the Kingdom of God, and living in accordance with God’s will. However, in the Gospel of John, Jesus makes several statements that imply his divine nature. Interpretations of biblical verses vary regarding whether these statements signify literal divinity or metaphorical unity with God. It is most likely that it is metaphorical as Jesus acknowledges the father sent him and is greater than him. |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by TenQ: 2:54pm On Apr 01 |
Ohyoudidnt:The Coward is the one who cannot give straight answers to questions directed at his faith but will rather choose to answer his own convenient question. |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Ohyoudidnt: 3:10pm On Apr 01 |
TenQ: Going with the argument you are bringing what essence is Jesus being the greatest or the one through which creation was done? Does it make him equal to God or co-divine with God? TenQ: Really. Do you see the lie of your 1 is 3 and 3 is 1? What abstract mathematics is this? TenQ: Yes I say Christians derailed from Monotheism. I put the difference with Arianism on purpose because regardless of the honour they give Jesus they don't commit excesses by equating Jesus with God. I know monotheism and a monotheist but don't understand the phrase monotheist christianity but ask you if there is polytheist christianity. You should have the other if the former exists? TenQ: In saying Allah is the Messiah the Christian and those who say such have partnered Allah with the messiah. May Allah forbid. So is the trinity belief of Christianity monotheism? 2. Why did the followers of Jesus allegedly form a new religion despite Jesus asking they obey the priests in the scripture but not their ways? Did the priests not practice Judaism? Where did Jesus disagree or disaprove Judaism? |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Ohyoudidnt: 3:12pm On Apr 01 |
TenQ: Really. I believe it's the one who's questions are so voluminous and constricted it's difficult to keep it short and simple. |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Qasim6(m): 3:41pm On Apr 01 |
SIRTee15: Stop embarrassing yourself. Muslim simply means one who submit to God. The reason we always claim all Prophets are Muslims. Except you want to tell me all those people those verses mentioned did not submit to God. |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by TenQ: 3:43pm On Apr 01 |
Ohyoudidnt:When a person is so dull to comprehend simple truths, there is tendency to explain and re-explain using all forms of parables and illustrations. But what do you do if the metal capacity of a person is below reason? This is what is called Spiritual Blindness! A blind person sees nothing even when ALL the Light is beamed around him! |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Qasim6(m): 4:04pm On Apr 01 |
SIRTee15: Calm down I wanted to type 'Have you checked the Talmud? ' In the Talmud they make fun of Jesus virgin birth, they reject him as the messiah and maintain he was rightly killed for blasphemy and for practicing sorcery he learned from Egypt. In addition a crucified messiah is an oxymoron to them. Because the prophecies about the messiah did not say anything about him getting killed. |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by TenQ: 4:08pm On Apr 01 |
Ohyoudidnt:Why are you this dull? Again: Do you agree with the Arian doctrine that Jesus was used by God to create EVERYTHING in the Universe? Ohyoudidnt:Since you brought mathematics/science absurdity into this: Is an Electron a Particle or a Wave? Please I need a clear answer? Ohyoudidnt:But you also agree with them that Jesus is the Creator of Everything (as a servant of God)? Ohyoudidnt:You are the one confusing yourself because the Christian God is ONE As ONE: He could be in the Heaven and on the Earth and Everywhere at the same time simply because He is God. We call Him the Father, We call Him the Word and we call Him the Holy Spirit How can one explain "color Red" to a man born blind? Ohyoudidnt:It is a logical problem Is this logically true : If A=B, then B=A If Allah = Messiah, is it true that Messiah =Allah? So, who then is the partner of Allah or who is the partner of Messiah? Ohyoudidnt:Perfect Monotheism where God is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipresent. Of course, we have demonstrated clearly to you from your Quran and Hadiths how Allah is neither Omnipresent, Omniscient nor Omnipresent. Ohyoudidnt:If it is true that Jesus commanded his followers to follow Judaism, then Are you saying that Judaism is the religion of Allah? Ohyoudidnt:There is no religion called Judaism in the whole Bible: Judaism is simply Jewish faith This is why your prophet did not give their religion a name but a Tribe! |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Ohyoudidnt: 5:20pm On Apr 01 |
TenQ: Thank you. I am very dull so why are you trying to keep a reasonable conversation with me? |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Dsimmer: 5:24pm On Apr 01 |
Kobojunkie: As I previously stated, Jesus represent the law however, he also represent mercy. The law has no mercy thus why Jesus had to die, thus he fulfilled the law by dying. However, he obtained mercy because he was also resurrected. Since Jesus obtained mercy by his resurrection despite being a representative of the sinner on the cross, it means mercy abounds for everyone. However, it doesn't mean one should continue to do evil. That was why Paul who often loved talking about God's grace also added that "we can't continue in sin yet expect grace to abound". |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Qasim6(m): 5:35pm On Apr 01 |
SIRTee15: A Christian talking about intellectual dishonesty. If that interpretation is vague to you, then you need to check yourself. I showed how God putting his spirit on him simply means the chosen servant will be a prophet. I showed you a Bible verse and a Qur'an verse that attest to that. What else do you want? |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by TenQ: 7:44pm On Apr 01 |
Ohyoudidnt:Because smartness is not a requirement for entering paradise, knowing the TRUTH and abiding in it is! Me as long as I live will speak of the Truth of Gods plan of salvation for your soul. I will NOY be guilty of the SOul of any Muslim I come in contact with. BTW! My statement of question: Why are you this dull? Is not supposed to be an insult but an exclamation to the fact that the same question has been repeated so many times YET you (either deliberately or ignorantly) answered different question. The Original Question was: 1. Is it true that in Arianism, Jesus Christ is seen as the first and greatest of God's creations, through whom God created the universe? Later modified to: Again: Do you agree with the Arian doctrine that Jesus was used by God to create EVERYTHING in the Universe? |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Ohyoudidnt: 7:48pm On Apr 01 |
In understanding the theological differences between Arianism and Trinitarian Christianity, it becomes apparent that Arianism is indeed closer to monotheism than Trinitarian Christianity. This distinction arises from the core beliefs of each doctrine regarding the nature of God and Jesus Christ. Arianism emphasizes the oneness of God in a more direct manner compared to Trinitarian Christianity. In Arian theology, God the Father is considered the sole eternal deity, while Jesus Christ is viewed as a created being, albeit divine in nature. This perspective aligns closely with traditional monotheistic beliefs that uphold the unity and singularity of God without incorporating complex notions of a triune nature. One of the key tenets of Arianism is the subordination of Jesus Christ to God the Father. According to Arian doctrine, Jesus is distinct from and subordinate to God, implying a hierarchical relationship within the divine realm. This hierarchical structure reinforces the idea of a singular supreme deity (God the Father) with a subordinate divine entity (Jesus), reinforcing monotheistic principles. 1 Like |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Ohyoudidnt: 7:50pm On Apr 01 |
In contrast, Trinitarian Christianity posits the existence of three co-equal persons within the Godhead: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. While still maintaining monotheistic beliefs, Trinitarian doctrine introduces a complex unity within God’s nature, encompassing three distinct persons in one essence. Arianism’s emphasis on the supremacy and singularity of God aligns more closely with traditional monotheistic principles than Trinitarian Christianity, which introduces a triune concept of deity. By highlighting the subordination of Jesus and maintaining a clear hierarchy within divinity, Arianism presents a theological framework that resonates more directly with classical monotheistic views. |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Janosky: 10:43pm On Apr 01 |
Kobojunkie:I have 2 questions for you: Kobojunkie, Is your own Jesus Christ the God of Israel? Is your own Jesus Christ a servant of the God of Israel? |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Janosky: 10:54pm On Apr 01 |
SIRTee15:Matthew 27:46 on earth Jesus said "my God, my God". Revelation 3:12, in heaven, Jesus said "my God". Did Jesus teach Trinity? Is Jesus Christ a Trinitarian? SIRTee15: If arianism claim that " Jesus is divine ". Why do Trinitarians label Arianism "heretic" ? |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 11:39pm On Apr 01 |
Qasim6: u not answering my question. who was the first muslim? Muhammed claimed he was the first muslim but others has been calling themselves muslims before him. Moses also said he was the first muslim. So I'm throwing the question at u. clarify the contradiction...who was the first muslim. Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). Quran 39:11-12 He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and I am first of those who surrender (unto Him). Quran 6:163 Moses When Moses came at the appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he asked, “My Lord! Reveal Yourself to me so I may see You.” Allah answered, “You cannot see Me! But look at the mountain. If it remains firm in its place, only then will you see Me.” When his Lord appeared to the mountain, He levelled it to dust and Moses collapsed unconscious. When he recovered, he cried, “Glory be to You! I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers ” Quran 7.143 1 Like |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 11:57pm On Apr 01 |
Ohyoudidnt: Is the shin of Allah one with Allah? why dont u clarify the confusion with your composite Allah b4 delving into what u dont understand. |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Ohyoudidnt: 1:04am On Apr 02 |
SIRTee15: The shin is interpreted metaphorically to represent the unveiling of hidden truths and realities on the Day of Judgment. Alll will be made bare and the insincere will be unable to bow to Allah In our state on earth we can not fathom, comprehend or describe Allah. HE has no face, shin, head, legs or eyes. He is beyond our imagination. |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Kobojunkiee: 3:06am On Apr 02 |
Janosky:Is this some sort of mental problem for you? We have had similar conversations in the past with you bolting before the end. My question at this point is are you certain you are alright at all? If this is some dementia or Alzheimer's trick, warn your mind so it knows to avoid me the next time you think to come at me with these utter stewpid questions of yours. https://www.nairaland.com/8019021/jehovah-witnesses-believe-god-speaks#128760867 For the umpteenth time, Jesus Christ in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 declared Himself God over all those who are of the Kingdom of God. He said He is the Judge and Ruler to determine the end for every one of those who are born-again — the eternal fate of all goats and sheep is in His Hands. He is God over them all. . So why do you need Him to First have to say "I am God in the Kingdom of God" before you even realize the place He occupies over the lives(and souls) of those who submit to becoming part of a Kingdom that belongs to Him? This ain't rocket science for Pete's sake! No other human or angel can lay claim to such power of authority over other beings. No other human or angel being has ever been written as occupying such a place over the eternal realities of other human beings. Assuming you are even born-again, how could you not have realized this basic fact at this point? How in the world can you claim to be a believer in Jesus Christ yet not realize the weight of His status as Lord and God over the very life of anyone who enters into His Kingdom? What are you doing claiming you believe in Jesus Christ and His Kingdom if you don't even realize this basic fact of it all? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Qasim6(m): 7:04am On Apr 02 |
SIRTee15: Do the verses say any of Prophet Muhammad or Prophet Musa is the first Muslim among mankind? All prophets are to be an example to the people they are calling to the message of God, so they are supposed to be the first to believe before calling others to what they believe in. Abraham was the first to believe in his time before inviting others. Q 2:131 Moses was the first to believe in his time before calling others. Q 7:143 Muhammad was asked to be the first to believe before inviting others. Q 6:14 |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by Ohyoudidnt: 7:10am On Apr 02 |
Kobojunkiee: Really? Did Jesus actually declare himself God? That he is established as ruler and Judge on earth doesn't make him God. The ruler of Egypt in the time of Moses also judged and ruled but that didn't make him God. He may have tried to assume such status but never was he equal to God. Be cautious of your translations or understanding besides he still referred to himself as the son of Man. Is this a case of repeating a previous folly? |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 9:53am On Apr 02 |
Qasim6: Gospel of John was written in the first century, stop confabulating. Scholars date it to 90AD, no scholar put it at 110 AD. We know this because the writer John the apostle died 99 AD in his early 90s. He was the youngest of the disciples of Jesus so it's no surprise he lived into the late first century AD. How do we know John wrote the gospel of John? because we have the muratorian fragment that confirmed this. The fourth Gospel is that of John, one of the disciples. When his fellow-disciples and bishops entreated him, he said, “Fast ye now with me for the space of three days, and let us recount to each other whatever may be revealed to each of us.” On the same night it was revealed to Andrew, one of the apostles, that John should narrate all things in his own name as they called them to mind. What marvel is it, then, that John brings forward these several things so constantly in his epistles also, saying in his own person, “What we have seen with our eyes, and heard with our ears, and our hands have handled, that have we written.” For thus he professes himself to be not only the eye-witness, but also the hearer; and besides that, the historian of all the wondrous facts concerning the Lord in their order So the gospel of John is valid because it was written by an eye witness who was a disciple of jesus and confirmed by other eye witnesses one of whom is Andrew- disciple of Jesus. John 21 24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true Unlike the tales by moonlight such as Jesus talking at birth seen in forged gospels the Qur'an copied. We know they are works of forgery because the authors attributed to the works Thomas and James couldn't have written the book. 1 Like |
Re: How Christianity Moved Away From Monotheism. Is Trinity a monotheist principle? by SIRTee15: 10:50am On Apr 02 |
Qasim6:I already written a out this in the past. I'm not in the mood to repeat myself. Check my post on the thread 'Do God exist'. We know Matthew wrote the gospel of Matthew because it was quoted extensively in the Didache, a cathetist used Jewish Christians in the mid first century. And Papias one of the apostolic fathers who met the disciples confirmed Mathew wrote a gospel to the Jewish Christians. Qasim6: Check the thread. I explained everything in full details. The other gospel writers also didn't mention the earthquake that occured during the cruxifixion. Now we have scientific and historical evidence that an unusual earthquake did occur around 33-36 AD in Judea region. Show me evidence of the wall built by dhu al-qarnayn sealing up people of gog and magog by non Quranic historian. Qasim6: By stories copied from forged gospel books. U can deny it but the facts are bare. Qasim6: Quran is a forged book my friend. A book written by someone who has no idea what he's talking about. It doesn't matter if it's Muhammed or Allah that wrote it. I will force U to see the forgery in your book by the time we done here. Tell me who is dhu al-qarnayn and do U believe someone can sleep for 300 years. Qasim6: The synoptic and John's gospel. because these were written by eye witness. Others are called apocryphal because they are not eye witness account. U are on your own if you choose to swallow the tales in them. 1 Like |
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