swiz123:


With all due respect, you know so little about football. I think your interest in football is not that deep as your logic is shocking.

Any player in a big team capable of competing for major trophies who hasn't won anything after years of trying can never be regarded as world class.

Saka's performance is a game they lost which he neither scored nor assisted is better than any compilation of Palmer so far? This is embarrassing!

That you think worldclass is winning rather than performance shouldn't make me engage you again. So who caused penalty for England in that match?

So you needed a win from Brazil in 1998 in the finals to confirm Ronaldo delima as a worldclass striker rather than his performance that very day? Remember Ronaldo did not score or assist?

Why do you keep proving to me that you cannot make football decisions on your own when raumdeu.ter isn't involved?

Jodera:

How would you Rate Kane?

Top Striker or World class Striker??

I even forgot that one totally.

swiz123:


Never said Palmer is world class yet, but neither is Saka and I was just letting him know that.

Smh!

timbros:


Before you use a word, try and check your dictionary.

Have you watched the Chelsea vs Burnley match? If you have and you also watch Chelsea vs Man Utd, you will know when to use the word comeback

I will come back to you later,for now let me deal with your mentee swiz.

popizaino:



Keep that respect, i don't need your confirmation on what i know about myself. So carry along are also worldclass player by virtue of being fortunate to be in a winning team right?

Maybe the last time Assnal had a worldclass player is when they last won the golden epl according to your nauseating logic.


Every Greece 🇬🇷 player that won the Euro in 2004 were worldclass mr logic.


Fernando Torres wasn't a worldclass striker at Liverpool because he couldn't win anything.


Luis Suarez for Liverpool wasn't a worldclass player till he got to Barcelona.

Michael Ballack wasn't a worldclass midfielder in 2002 when he won uefa midfielder of the year because he didn't win any trophy.

Thank you for defining worldclass as trophy rather than individual performance.

Your argument is so easy to tear apart. But you can be forgiven for not reading along to where I made a clearer definition of a world class player.

Two key words define a world class player, consistency in performance overtime and trophies to show for it. As long as one plays for a competitive club, he has to be consistent and also win major trophies to be regarded as world class.

So go back to your argument and educate yourself.

swiz123:


Your argument is so easy to tear apart. But you can be forgiven for not reading along to where I made a clearer definition of a world class player.

Two key words define a world class player, consistency in performance overtime and trophies to show for it. As long as one plays for a competitive club, he has to be consistent and also win major trophies to be regarded as world class.

So go back to your argument and educate yourself.

Well Kane is about to go trophiless with Bayern in a season where he has been breaking all kinds of goal scoring records in the process.

Is he currently world class or not?

nihilistjnr:


I'm 100% convinced that you're team citadel with this stat.

And it's true though. Palmer is our highest goal scorer and assister this season - and half his goals are from the penalty spot.

It's hard to argue that Chelsea attack is OK, when our highest assister still has to bear the main goal scoring burden by relying very heavily on penalties, because no one else is scoring...

Look at our top goalscorers and top assisters list now and compare to last season.

popizaino:


That you think worldclass is winning rather than performance shouldn't make me engage you again. So who caused penalty for England in that match?

So you needed a win from Brazil in 1998 in the finals to confirm Ronaldo delima as a worldclass striker rather than his performance that very day? Remember Ronaldo did not score or assist?

Why do you keep proving to me that you cannot make football decisions on your own when raumdeu.ter isn't involved?

So because Saka won a penalty against France, that makes his performance on that day better than every Palmer's compilation this season? Shocking claim!

Your argument is exhausting because you draw the most absurd false equivalence to defend your claim.
Ronaldo who already won a world cup, Copa America, Top scored in la Liga, and won a balon d'or before 1998 world cup is who you are asking me about. He had consistency and major trophies to make him a world class player.

You will look for another player and drag this argument to eternity. I can't be responding to weak arguments.

nihilistjnr:


Well Kane is about to go trophiless with Bayern in a season where he has been breaking all kinds of goal scoring records in the process.

Is he currently world class or not?

Kane's longevity makes him world class player especially, considering the fact that he was playing for a weak spurs.

Even if he doesn't win a trophy with Bayern, you can trust him to remain consistent and win it next season.

popizaino:







I even forgot that one totally.

Jodera:

No no no!

I'm not talking about divided opinions here on Nairaland but other sports platforms as well. Jorginho is always criticized (even though I agree here it's one of the highest). In fact, on different platforms, so many Chelsea fans were glad Jorginho left and many arsenal fans were sad we bought Jorginho.

That itself negates any world class player tag you would want to give him.

As for coaches starting him, he's a good player quite alright so yeah.
But World class?? No ooo!!

Players like Carrick, Busquet, Jorginho are not always rated highly by fans but by their team mates and managers.

Jorginho has declined no doubt but he was a world class player by all metric. You don't win Euros, UCL, UEFA best player and finish 3rd in balondor by luck, never!!!

I think Pep wanted him to be his DM at a point but that's not really where I'm driving at...

My point is this, the fact that those playing with him, coaching him and the UEFA technical team suggest he was the best at a point, then he did alot right.

Is he currently world class? No. Was he world class definitely yes!!!

You don't get all those accolades by luck at this level!

timbros:


Why are we even in a comeback discussion? You have been talking of comeback since the Burnley game and it's so ridiculous.

Was there suppose to be a comeback from Chelsea against Burnley? Do you do a comeback in a match you kept leading? Bruddah, is everything alright? Why not go and rewatch the Burnley match before you come to analyse?

If you followed my discussion very well without assuming for me,i have been particular about Chelsea as a team and not this season alone. I brought our goal conceded against other top teams for the past 5 seasons or so and there wasn't much difference as against our goal scored between us and them. This season is an outlier in our goal conceded but trust me,we still haven't improved in our attack as a team.

oliverano:


Players like Carrick, Busquet, Jorginho are not always rated highly by fans but by their team mates and managers.

Jorginho has declined no doubt but he was a world class player by all metric. You don't win Euros, UCL, UEFA best player and finish 3rd in balondor by luck, never!!!

I think Pep wanted him to be his DM at a point but that's not really where I'm driving at...

My point is this, the fact that those playing with him, coaching him and the UEFA technical team suggest he was the best at a point, then he did alot right.

Is he currently world class? No. Was he world class definitely yes!!!

You don't get all those accolades by luck at this level!

Everyone knows Jorginho getting all those accolades is due to his team winning those competitions and him being a starter.

Was he the top 3 or top 5 player in Chelsea in their ucl win or league performances? Definitely not

Was he the top 3 performers in their euro win? No oo.

And to me, that's just his only peak season. Was there any season you were like "Ohhh, Jorginho is really the man?"

Even Busquet and Carrick sef, I dey hail them die.

You can't tell me you're a world class player and even your fans can't acknowledge you.

Barca fans deh acknowledge Busquet
Man u fans dey acknowledge Carrick
Chelsea fans don't acknowledge Jorginho, instead it's Kante.

Forget bros, World class is undoubted.
And you can't just use only one season to attain it

swiz123:


Maybe I need to start watching Arsenal vs Burnley, Sheffield united, Fulham, Luton Town to see all these qualities. Sadly, I don't have such time.

I have personally come to observe him vs Chelsea, Liverpool, Man u, Man city, Porto and I saw nothing.

These are the type of games I rate players from, not against significantly weaker opposition.

That's because you are blind and probably waiting for timbros and raumdeuter to confirm them for you.


Who assisted the last goal against us in the 2-2 draw this season?

Funny enough Saka has scored against all this teams you mentioned above and Tottenham inclusive.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8T3eSZGzYI?si=MzvkjTR04_bL4Ldr


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GujJb3KEdww?si=gisO2Jx8gw_T-RlT


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2aPiie87Q8?si=ie9s_6FRngXU5RS0



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8HOGUh7Zdo?si=qqWObf45EWQW-lau

Unlimited22:

Look at our top goalscorers and top assisters list now and compare to last season.

You're making the argument for Airmark sef

You can see that when you remove Palmer's contribution from the equation, Chelsea's attacking input has been largely stagnant.

Our most productive attacker last season had 9 G+A in the league. This season the same Sterling has 10 G+A in the league.

Jackson is a like for like match with Havertz from last year, with a minor improvement in output.

Palmer alone has more EPL goals than Jackson and Sterling combined. He has more EPL goals than Noni + Mudryk +Nkunku + Sterling combined.

Cole Palmer has 16 goals on his own. Noni, Mudryk, Nkunku, Sterling, and Gallagher have a combined 17 goals between them.

It shows you that the so called attack that is OK, is really just Cole Palmer.

But when you realise that 8 of those 16 goals are from the penalty spot, and 1 of the remaining 8 was a deflected 'almost own goal', then it begs the question around how really good our attacking saviour is.

Mind you, i'm not saying that Palmer isn't excellent - he is. But if you're making an argument that Chelseas attack is ok, because Palmer is carrying it...most commonly through uncontested shots on goal awarded by the referee's whistle, then that argument is fundamentally weak in my opinion.

swiz123:


World class Striker of course by virtue of his longevity in his craft and most importantly because I know that his lack of trophies is simply because of the team he used to play for before now. TOT never had the financial power to compete for trophies with the big boys.

You can't be twisting word to suit your own narrative. In one world,you have to have won trophy to be considered a world class and another breath,the team matters.


So today Tottenham doesn't have financial power to compete with big boys but when you were rubbishing Pochettino's Tottenham performance you forgot this financial power. Colour me double standard.

Maybe leceister city had the financial power when they won the league.

If you can't defend your ridiculous points then Harry kane is not a worldclass player according to your own criteria.

Thazard:
Yes, it fit in directly in your description. Like round pegs in round holes and square pegs in square holes.

Him think say him wise.

Jodera:

So that means you necessarily don't have to win trophies for you to be rated as World class then.

I'm not saying Saka is world class, just clearing the air of you saying one must win trophy to be graded as world class (though it's very important)

I am ashamed of you.

So Saka isn't a worldclass. What does he need to do to be called a world class?

Jodera:

No no no!

I'm not talking about divided opinions here on Nairaland but other sports platforms as well. Jorginho is always criticized (even though I agree here it's one of the highest). In fact, on different platforms, so many Chelsea fans were glad Jorginho left and many arsenal fans were sad we bought Jorginho.

That itself negates any world class player tag you would want to give him.

As for coaches starting him, he's a good player quite alright so yeah.
But World class?? No ooo!!

Jorginho's hatred at Chelsea solely started as a result of Sarri and the perception that he was his favorite. Especially when the team was suffering from poor results

Then the inept Frank took over and the less said about him and his history with Jorgiboy, the better

Jodera:


Everyone knows Jorginho getting all those accolades is due to his team winning those competitions and him being a starter.

Was he the top 3 or top 5 player in Chelsea in their ucl win or league performances? Definitely not

Was he the top 3 performers in their euro win? No oo.

And to me, that's just his only peak season. Was there any season you were like "Ohhh, Jorginho is really the man?"

Even Busquet and Carrick sef, I dey hail them die.

You can't tell me you're a world class player and even your fans can't acknowledge you.

Barca fans deh acknowledge Busquet
Man u fans dey acknowledge Carrick
Chelsea fans don't acknowledge Jorginho, instead it's Kante.

Forget bros, World class is undoubted.
And you can't just use only one season to attain it

Make Jorgihnho go wash face ooo. He's done enough in my books though.

I rest my case ✋✋✋!!!!

swiz123:


Read my post calmly. I said as long as a player plays for a big team capable of competing for major trophies and fails to win anything after repeated trials, he can't be regarded as world class.

Therefore two things makes a player World class; consistency in performance for at least 5 years or maybe more and trophies to show for it.

Ridiculous.

How will worldclass be tied to your ability to win trophies? You are ridiculous abeg.


Even in academics 75 is a Excellent and 68 is very good. If Saka is rated as excellent in every game what makes him not a world class player?

So let say you scored 95% in a given course and another person scored 100% to win the prize of the best student in that particular course, does the fact you didn't win the prize makes you less of an excellent in that particular course after scoring 95% ?

oliverano:


Players like Carrick, Busquet, Jorginho are not always rated highly by fans but by their team mates and managers.

Jorginho has declined no doubt but he was a world class player by all metric. You don't win Euros, UCL, UEFA best player and finish 3rd in balondor by luck, never!!!

I think Pep wanted him to be his DM at a point but that's not really where I'm driving at...

My point is this, the fact that those playing with him, coaching him and the UEFA technical team suggest he was the best at a point, then he did alot right.

Is he currently world class? No. Was he world class definitely yes!!!

You don't get all those accolades by luck at this level!

Touche!!!.

Nobody gives a shit what we all think, If we were that good, we will be on the field coaching or playing in some form.

There's a reason peer review exists. I have never seen any competent player or coach speak badly about Jorginho's attributes.

All they've got for him is adulation and respect for his footballing abilities and achievements. Tells a lot

swiz123:


He is not having a bad season so I will use this season to assess him. He better turns up against Bayern, otherwise I will cancel him indefinitely.

Your cancel doesn't change the fact that Saka is a world class player. A player can turn up and his team end up losing. Hernan Crespo turned up in 2005 UCL finals and his team Ac Milan ended up losing. Stop bringing ridiculous point to justify your nonsense on Saka.

Jodera:


Everyone knows Jorginho getting all those accolades is due to his team winning those competitions and him being a starter.

Was he the top 3 or top 5 player in Chelsea in their ucl win or league performances? Definitely not

Was he the top 3 performers in their euro win? No oo.

And to me, that's just his only peak season. Was there any season you were like "Ohhh, Jorginho is really the man?"

Even Busquet and Carrick sef, I dey hail them die.

You can't tell me you're a world class player and even your fans can't acknowledge you.

Barca fans deh acknowledge Busquet
Man u fans dey acknowledge Carrick
Chelsea fans don't acknowledge Jorginho, instead it's Kante.

Forget bros, World class is undoubted.
And you can't just use only one season to attain it

Only you and his critics think this.

We have had the extensive argument on here sometime back, you can go back and check the thread.

They tried to give the Italy accolade to Verratti, the argument was torn apart, Ditto, Kante.

No need rewriting history.

swiz123:


On the contrary, when I watch him, I see nothing. He has no natural winger's flair, not good at passing and poor shooting ability. His first touch is not even tidy sef.
I don't see him make defence splitting passes or create something out of nothing. Only plays to the manager's instruction. So when you checkmate the manager, he becomes useless.

No watches Saka and come up with this. Funny enough this same you watched Havertz and saw world class.

Smh

swiz123:


I don't like engaging in fruitless discourse. That a team win trophies doesn't make all their players world class please. But for a player who has maintained consistent level of high Performance over years and has trophies to show is a worldclass player.

Has Folden shown consistent level of high performance over the years? No. Does he have the potential to? Yes. When did Folden become a guaranteed starter sef?

Haaland has shown consistency in front of goal even before coming to City and when he joined City which is a competitive team, he now has trophies to show. Of course, he has proven himself to be a world class player.

Jorginho reached a very high peak in football and has an Euro and UCL, UEFA player of the year and nearly won a balon d'or. If that is not world class, then I don't know what is.

Rubbish.


You are neither here or there? Thinking your epistle will make up for the baised points you raised here. Make i go pray comeback and lay bare your double standards before everyone here.

swiz123:


Your argument is so easy to tear apart. But you can be forgiven for not reading along to where I made a clearer definition of a world class player.

Two key words define a world class player, consistency in performance overtime and trophies to show for it. As long as one plays for a competitive club, he has to be consistent and also win major trophies to be regarded as world class.

So go back to your argument and educate yourself.

Harry Kane doesn’t have any trophy to show for but he is a world class player

oliverano:


Players like Carrick, Busquet, Jorginho are not always rated highly by fans but by their team mates and managers.

Jorginho has declined no doubt but he was a world class player by all metric. You don't win Euros, UCL, UEFA best player and finish 3rd in balondor by luck, never!!!

I think Pep wanted him to be his DM at a point but that's not really where I'm driving at...

My point is this, the fact that those playing with him, coaching him and the UEFA technical team suggest he was the best at a point, then he did alot right.

Is he currently world class? No. Was he world class definitely yes!!!

You don't get all those accolades by luck at this level!

Maybe carrick and Jorginho

No soul dead or alive wey no rate busquets

nihilistjnr:


You're making the argument for Airmark sef

You can see that when you remove Palmer's contribution from the equation, Chelsea's attacking input has been largely stagnant.

Our most productive attacker last season had 9 G+A in the league. This season the same Sterling has 10 G+A in the league.

Jackson is a like for like match with Havertz from last year, with a minor improvement in output.

Palmer alone has more EPL goals than Jackson and Sterling combined. He has more EPL goals than Noni + Mudryk +Nkunku + Sterling combined.

Cole Palmer has 16 goals on his own. Noni, Mudryk, Nkunku, Sterling, and Gallagher have a combined 17 goals between them.

It shows you that the so called attack that is OK, is really just Cole Palmer.

But when you realise that 8 of those 16 goals are from the penalty spot, and 1 of the remaining 8 was a deflected 'almost own goal', then it begs the question around how really good our attacking saviour is.

Mind you, i'm not saying that Palmer isn't excellent - he is. But if you're making an argument that Chelseas attack is ok, because Palmer is carrying it...most commonly through uncontested shots on goal awarded by the referee's whistle, then that argument is fundamentally weak in my opinion.

Attack is good and not good. It's good because they create chances including pressure on teams that led to penalties but not good because they missed those chances.

They are among top club that created more chances and missed chances.

andrewbaba44:


Maybe carrick and Jorginho

No soul dead or alive wey no rate busquets

I no rate that your fall and die ministry Busquets one bit. He nobi sabi pass make em fall.

andrewbaba44:


Maybe carrick and Jorginho

No soul dead or alive wey no rate busquets

Same spineless Bousquet abi Biscuit? You must be new to the main market!

Them plenty wey no rate Busquet for here ooo but that's not my p. I rate him very highly!

swiz123:


He didn't anticipate that Bandiashile will be stupid enough to stay close to him instead of opening up to receive his pass and recycle possession.

Later, Bandiashile sent a through ball to Anthony who assisted Garnacho.

Oga! That pass was poor. It has nothing to do with Bandiashile. He virtually passed to Garnacho and at still strolled behind him.