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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba (3140 Views)
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Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:58pm On Apr 22 |
AbuTwins: The culture of Asians is to bow before someone they RESPECT like an ELDERLY person just as Yorùbá will do before our elders. I remember when a Congolese first came to Nigeria seeing us doing so for elderly ones he objected furiously saying it's like worship in his own culture. So those people showed respect not worship that's why the commandments God gave Israel never said they shouldn't bow before a human because it's a sign of respect in their culture rather God said don't bow before OBJECTS! Exodus 20:4-5 AbuTwins: Excommunication is for UNREPENTANT sinners not those who feel sorry wholeheartedly. We only disfellowship anyone who is not ready to accept he or she is wrong because that's the first step into helping the sinner. If you say we don't report wrongdoers to police who do you expect to go and make the report o? We are one family and a member of the family did what is wrong of course it's a family issue nah it's when something like that involves none member of the family that the person who is not a member of our family will go and report to those whom he or she trusted can handle the matter in the best way. Take for instance David's son molested his own sister abeg who do you think will go and make the report to the elders of Israel? Is it not within the same family? So in God's organization it's a family issue that is why you can't see us picking weapons against anyone or our own brothers and sisters unlike you people who will report to the police and when they failed to do what you want it will turn to community fight between Muslims and Muslims! |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by FxMasterz: 5:59pm On Apr 22 |
AbuTwins:Keep deceiving yourself. Majority of the Psalms have known writers. Even if the writer of a song is unknown, it does not render it less a song for worshipping God. That's not the topic of this thread! This thread is talking about the ka'aba. Don't run from the question. Abraham never visited Mecca. How come he built the ka'aba? Let's talk about this particular lie regarding the ka'aba. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 6:01pm On Apr 22 |
FxMasterz:So you know there are unknown writers and that's what you were afraid of? Don't worry i know all that and more! This thread is talking about the ka'aba. Don't run from the question. The thread is about Muslims worshipping the Kaaba and not Abraham and the Kaaba! |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by FxMasterz: 6:05pm On Apr 22 |
AbuTwins:It doesn't concern us. The Psalms didn't fall from heaven like the lying claims of the Quran. The thread is about Muslims worshipping the Kaaba and not Abraham and the Kaaba! We can't talk about Muslims worshiping the ka'aba without talking about the origin of the ka'aba. How come Abraham is said to have built the ka'aba when he never visited Mecca? Is that a difficult question to answer? |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 6:11pm On Apr 22 |
MaxInDHouse: I asked what is worship? Why is bowing to humans without God's permission okay but bowing to stones not okay? Or is it that only Muslims' own get fault? This is your David bowing towards the Holy temple! Of David. I give You thanks with all my heart; before the gods I sing Your praises. I bow down toward Your holy temple and give thanks to Your name for Your loving devotion and Your faithfulness; You have exalted Your name and Your word above all else. Psalm 138:1-2 This is your Solomon! 1 Kings 8:29 May Your eyes be open toward this temple night and day, toward the place of which You said, 'My Name shall be there,' so that You may hear the prayer that Your servant prays toward this place. This is David again! Psalm 5:7 But I will enter Your house by the abundance of Your loving devotion; in reverence I will bow down toward Your holy temple. This is David again! Psalm 28:2 Hear my cry for mercy when I call to You for help, when I lift up my hands toward Your holy sanctuary. And Daniel got on his kneels and prayed facing Jerusalem! Daniel 6:10 Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before. Ignorant hypocrites and liars! Who told you we worship the stone from our texts? Excommunication is for UNREPENTANT sinners not those who feel sorry wholeheartedly.How is this biblical? If you say we don't report wrongdoers to police who do you expect to go and make the report o?The Church should report! If you don't report it then you condone it. We are one family and a member of the family did what is wrong of course it's a family issue nah it's when something like that involves none member of the family that the person who is not a member of our family will go and report to those whom he or she trusted can handle the matter in the best way.You are always against the laws and constitution of the land! Take for instance David's son molested his own sister abeg who do you think will go and make the report to the elders of Israel?If David did that then he should be stoned! So in God's organization it's a family issue that is why you can't see us picking weapons against anyone or our own brothers and sisters unlike you people who will report to the police and when they failed to do what you want it will turn to community fight between Muslims and Muslims!There's nothing like family issue. The soul that sins should die! That's what your Bible say! |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 6:15pm On Apr 22 |
FxMasterz:Yeah I agree! The Psalms is not God-breathed! Church fathers admitted Psalms with unknown writers into the Bible! We can't talk about Muslims worshiping the ka'aba without talking about the origin of the ka'aba. I will hand you over to the mods! I no get time! |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:33pm On Apr 22 |
AbuTwins:There was no Temple in David's time so he was talking about the presence of his God not an object. Note that Moses bow before the burning bush when he heard God's voice that's a sign of respect for the person talking to him. But in the case of Muslims the black stone is of no significance so it's just an object! AbuTwins:You need wisdom walahi talahi! It's whatever you can't resolve amicably within you that should be reported not what you can settle within the family. For instance the EFCC do arrest fraudsters but if your own wife or son or daughter steal your money will you report to the EFCC? Ọmọ even if they know you will say it has been settled, that's the meaning of a family! It's because your Allah is not a living God that you find it hard to see your fellow believers as members of your family that's why you often fight to kill them when you can't resolve matters among yourselves! AbuTwins:You misconstrued God's word because the soul is precious to God that's why there is room for REPENTANCE sin that God can't forgive is that which the sinner refuses to accept discipline. David slept with another man's wife and killed the husband but why didn't God kill David? Because he was repentant. King Saul didn't do up to that yet he was rejected because he was adamant. That's the difference! |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by FxMasterz: 6:49pm On Apr 22 |
AbuTwins:Authors don't have to be known in order for psalms to be God breathed. It isn't a criteria at all. You're ignorant. I will hand you over to the mods! I no get time! Tell the mods that you're busy discussing whether or not David wrote psalm 138 on your ka'aba thread but you're afraid of discussing the origin of the ka'aba on your kaaba thread. I understand, the lies regarding the ka'aba are too difficult to defend. Again. How come Abraham is credited with the building of the ka'aba when he never visited Mecca? |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 8:25pm On Apr 22 |
AbuTwins: If I slap U...how can U compare different denominational doctrines to the authority of islam in Nigeria that all muslims in the country submits. Who tells U when to start your Ramadan fast and when to end it. No be dem royalty for north dey tell U to begin fast after they approve the sighting of the moon? And if they don't tell U to stop fasting, U must continue. Now U here denying their authority over u because U are embarrassed by their action. He be like say U never chop this evening na why U dey yarn nonsense.
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Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by TenQ: 8:27pm On Apr 22 |
AbuTwins:So, you now realise how stupid and illogical your position is! |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 10:31pm On Apr 22 |
AbuTwins: My friend, the bible said Jesus was worshipped not bow to or people prostrated to him. PEOPLE WORSHIPPED JESUS AND JESUS NEVER REJECTED WORSHIP. Matthew 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him. Matthew 14:33 And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” Matthew 2:11 And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh. Luke 24.52 And the disciples worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. The bible never mentioned other prophets were worshipped or receive worship. None. You are the one forcing prostrate/bow to mean worship. The bible makes it clear Thou shall only worship the LORD your God. To prove to you that Jesus was worshipped as God in the new testament, when John fell on his face to worship the Angel, he told John never to worship him but to worship only God. Revelation 22 8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!” Unless U can provide verses where prophets were worshipped, your case is dead. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 10:55pm On Apr 22 |
AbuTwins: Worship simply means adoration and reverence to a deity or anything you consider god. I don't consider my parents as gods, so prostrating or bowing to them will not make them gods!!! Once U consider something a god, any adoration or reverence to it is worship. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 11:00pm On Apr 22 |
AbuTwins: 2 chronicles 7 Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the (shikenah) glory of the Lord filled the house. 2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the Lord, because the glory of the Lord had filled the Lord's house. 3 And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the Lord upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshipped, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 11:04pm On Apr 22 |
AbuTwins: Genesis 16.9 9 Then the angel of the LORD told Hagar, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.” 11 The angel of the LORD also said to her: “You are now pregnant and you will give birth to a son. You shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard of your misery. 12 He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers.” 13 Hagar gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: “You are the God who sees me,” for she said, “I have now seennthe One who sees me.” 14 That is why the well was called Beer Lahai Roi[d]; it is still there, between Kadesh and Bered. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 1:15pm On Apr 24 |
SIRTee15: But you hid Genesis 17:20 as a hypocrite that you are And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 1:17pm On Apr 24 |
SIRTee15: Where is Shikenah here? This is your David bowing towards the Holy temple! Of David. I give You thanks with all my heart; before the gods I sing Your praises. I bow down toward Your holy temple and give thanks to Your name for Your loving devotion and Your faithfulness; You have exalted Your name and Your word above all else. Psalm 138:1-2 This is your Solomon! 1 Kings 8:29 May Your eyes be open toward this temple night and day, toward the place of which You said, 'My Name shall be there,' so that You may hear the prayer that Your servant prays toward this place. This is David again! Psalm 5:7 But I will enter Your house by the abundance of Your loving devotion; in reverence I will bow down toward Your holy temple. This is David again! Psalm 28:2 Hear my cry for mercy when I call to You for help, when I lift up my hands toward Your holy sanctuary. And Daniel got on his kneels and prayed facing Jerusalem! Daniel 6:10 Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 1:22pm On Apr 24 |
SIRTee15:Thank you! I don't consider my parents as gods, so prostrating or bowing to them will not make them gods!!!So how do we consider the stone as God? Once U consider something a god, any adoration or reverence to it is worship.You are showing your hypocrisy full time! You claim we worship the Kaaba in a similar way you greet your parents! See the way Jesus worships the father Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, Matthew 26:39 Same way you greet your parents! The difference is intention! You didn't intend to worship them but greet them! How is that not applicable to us if not hypocrisy? |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 1:27pm On Apr 24 |
SIRTee15: What is the word translated as "worshipped"? prosekynēsen means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage. GOD'S WORD® Translation The men in the boat bowed down in front of Jesus and said, "You are truly the Son of God." Matthew 14:33 GOD'S WORD® Translation The man bowed in front of Jesus and said, "I believe, Lord." John 9:38 Good News Translation "I believe, Lord!" the man said, and knelt down before Jesus. John 9:38 Let me even make this a thread! |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 3:30pm On Apr 24 |
AbuTwins: Guy I never said U guys worship the kabba. Go through my previous post, no where did I say U guys worship a stone. I SAID U MUSLIMS BOW BEFORE A STONE WHICH IS A SIN TO GOD. GOD FORBID HUMANS BOWING BEFORE A STONE WHEN WORSHIPPING HIM. GOD HATES IT WHEN YOU ASSOCIATE A STONE WITH HIM. Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God. Lev 26.1 And never set up sacred stone, for the Lord your God hates them. Deuteronomy 16.22 Abu read to understand |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 3:36pm On Apr 24 |
AbuTwins: What's all these.....we talking about angel of the LORD, U shifted to Ishmael.... Did Hagar refer to the angel of the LORD as God? Yes or No Your genesis 17.20 is very lame, U are the one hiding something. This is the full verse. 19 Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with Isaac as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. 21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.” 22 When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him. God's covenant is with Isaac and not Ishmael. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 3:41pm On Apr 24 |
AbuTwins: Then tell me why did the angel speaking to John reject worship and told him to worship only God. If as U claim, worship in new testament simply means to bow. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 4:02pm On Apr 24 |
AbuTwins: The glory of God is called shikenah in Hebrew. Its in the talmud. What's with all these verses U bringing...U don't get it, do U? Prophets bow towards the temple because it's filled with the presence of God. How many times will I spell it for U. Gosh. They are bowing to God's glory in the temple not the physical structure. That's why I brought 2 chronicles 7. See it in another passage. 2 chronicles 5. 13-14 Then the temple of the Lord was filled with the cloud, 14 and the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the temple of God. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 5:20pm On Apr 24 |
SIRTee15: Is it filled with the glory of God all the time when Daniel, Solomon, David were praying? Show the verses? Chronicles is clearly for that verse alone! |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 5:33pm On Apr 24 |
SIRTee15: When Jesus put his face to the ground and prayed what did he do? He worshipped God! Angel will reject it. They are not Yorubas like you who greet in such ways! |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 5:36pm On Apr 24 |
SIRTee15: Both Isaac and Ishmael are Prophets in Islam. Each fulfilling their own mission! Na inside Bible God dey discriminate! I think I have told you that Angels, Satan, Human and Yahweh can be called Elohim aka God. Why repeating this here? |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by Aemmyjah(m): 5:45pm On Apr 24 |
AbuTwins: Are David and Solomon Jews or Muslims? Choose one |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 5:46pm On Apr 24 |
SIRTee15: So that means you are derailing the thread as the thread specifically addresses Muslims worshipping the Kaaba! Sins are different in Islam and Christianity! Sins are unequal in Islam. In Christianity sins are equal! As regards the Black Stone: The Black Stone was sent down by Allah to this earth from Paradise. It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; al-Nasaa’i, 2935. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi). The Stone was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black. It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaa said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462). |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by Aemmyjah(m): 5:48pm On Apr 24 |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by AbuTwins: 5:55pm On Apr 24 |
Aemmyjah: Jewish Muslim! Being Jewish can be a race and or religion! One can be a Jew and be a Muslim! One can be an Arab and a Christian! |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 6:12pm On Apr 24 |
AbuTwins: The verses I brought were for Solomon praying to God in the temple. Read 2 chronicles 7.1-13, can't be repeating myself. The book of ezekiel also talked about the glory of God filling the temple. Ezekiel 43 As the glory of the Lord entered the temple by the gate facing east, 5 the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple. There was no temple during the time of David but the tabernacle had always existed since the time of Moses and it's filled with the glory of God. Exodus 40.34 Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. 35 Moses could not enter the tent of meeting because the cloud had settled on it, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. The Lord said to Moses, let them make me a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst. Exactly as I show you concerning the pattern of the tabernacle, and of all its furniture. There I will meet with you, from above the mercy seat. Exodus 25:8-9. When the temple was built by Solomon, the tabernacle was inside the holy on holies in the temple. Its obvious U've not read the bible, U don't know anything about the old testament. That's why U ignorant about the glory of God, temple n tabernacle. U just parroting dawahganda script repeated in your mosque up and down. Even a 2 year old Christian knows God dwells in the temple. That's why U Muslims are pagan. U bow before an object void of God. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 6:27pm On Apr 24 |
AbuTwins: So if Allah told U guys to bow to kabba in the Koran or hadiths. It shows God in the bible is not the same as Allah in the Koran. Simple. God in the bible forbid anyone to worship him by bowing before a stone. So if your Allah is telling U to bow before a stone, then they are not the same God. It's impossible for God to give contradictory message. Same God cannot tell Moses one thing and then tell Muhammed exact opposite. Allah is not God of the bible, Allah is an impostor. I think this settles the case. |
Re: Abu Discussed With A Christian About Muslims Worshipping Kaaba by SIRTee15: 6:42pm On Apr 24 |
AbuTwins: We talking bible here, I dont believe what's written in the Koran. So Hagar called an angel 'the Living one who sees me' Who is called Living one in the bible? So Hagar called an angel 'El roi'? In case U don't know, one of the names of God is El roi. So go back and answer my question did Hagar refer to angel of the LORD as God? |
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