Stats: 3,188,862 members, 7,935,696 topics. Date: Friday, 30 August 2024 at 01:49 PM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / They Made Jesus God For Christians! (3054 Views)
Have You Made Jesus Your Lord And Personal Saviour? / Native Priest Comes For Christians, Muslims After Using Goat For Sacrifice. PICS / Is Jesus God? (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (Reply) (Go Down)
They Made Jesus God For Christians! by AbuTwins: 1:46pm On Apr 24 |
One of the flimsy reasons why Jesus is called God today was because people pay homage to him as a Prophet and man of God! Here are some of the verses: Matthew 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him (prosekynēsan). What does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from? It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage. Why was "Worshipped" used above? To make Jesus God! Matthew 14:33 And those in the boat worshiped him(prosekynēsan), saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” Again what does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from? It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage. Why was "Worshipped" used above? To make Jesus God! Matthew 2:11 And going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him (prosekynēsan). Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh. Luke 24.52 And the disciples worshiped him (prosekynēsan) and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. GOD'S WORD® Translation The man bowed (prosekynēsan) in front of Jesus and said, "I believe, Lord." John 9:38 What does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from? It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage. It seems the Bible translators had been toying with many brains for long! Finally when Jesus worshipped the father in Matthew 26:39, they never used worshipped even when it is clear that he was earnestly praying to someone greater than him! Going a little farther, he (Jesus) fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.” 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by SIRTee15: 3:58pm On Apr 24 |
AbuTwins: Then explain why the same word proskyneson which is worship in koine greek was used when refering to worshipping God. Why did the angel refuse John to worship him- proskyneson but told him to worship- proskyneson only God. “Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say, ‘You must worship (proskyneson) the Lord your God and serve only him 8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw all these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship- (proskyneo) at the feet of the angel who showed them to me. 9 But he said, “No, don’t worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers the prophets, as well as all who obey what is written in this book. Worship (proskyneson) only God!” 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by AbuTwins: 5:30pm On Apr 24 |
SIRTee15: What does prosekynēsan mean in Greek that New Testament was translated from? It means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage. When you do that for God is it not worship or what else can it mean? A final example for you to check out: “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ Matthew 18:26 Same word prosekynei is used in the verse above again translated as fell on his kneel! Assuming Jesus was involved it will also be worshipped! Is it not clearly dubious? |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by Antilslaam: 7:02pm On Apr 24 |
Slave AbuTwins what are you insinuating exactly |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:14pm On Apr 24 |
The right word is "OBEISANCE" which means "PAY HOMAGE" not WORSHIP. The astrologers from the East don't know the baby but Satan led them to him so that they will pay homage to him the same way people back then does to great kings, what Satan intend to do with that is to make Herod the Great feel his reign will soon end since he knew through the scriptures that the Messiah will conquer all the kingdoms in the world {Daniel 2:44} this will trigger intense hatred so as to get the baby killed. And that's exactly what happened! All male babies in Bethlehem Ephrata were slaughtered while baby Jesus has been taken away safely. So those astrologers were Satan's agents but they don't know that Satan is their god! ![]() 1 Like |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MightySparrow: 9:24pm On Apr 24 |
Nonsense post again. |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by Janosky: 9:33pm On Apr 24 |
AbuTwins: Salient point. Al Salam alaikum. |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:37pm On Apr 24 |
AbuTwins: The question you need to answer now: Are people worshiping Jesus today Christians since people back then never worshiped him? You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’ Matthew 15:7-9 |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by AbuTwins: 8:46am On Apr 25 |
MaxInDHouse: They are in majority and also call themselves Christians! |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by AbuTwins: 8:50am On Apr 25 |
Janosky: Wa alaikum salam. 1 Like |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:51am On Apr 25 |
AbuTwins: I'm sorry this is why i left Islam because we're taught to believe in the power of numbers not facts. This is what the man called CHRIST said: “Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and FEW are finding it" Matthew 7:13-14 So according to the man called CHRIST is the majority the determining factor when talking about Godly wisdom? ![]() |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by SIRTee15: 12:23pm On Apr 25 |
AbuTwins: Answer my question or keep quiet. When Jesus said Thou shall worship only the LORD thy God...what is the koine greek word used for worship. Why did the angel refuse worship from John in revelation and told him to worship only God. What was the koine greek word used for worship in the verse. The word used for worship in the verses I quoted was proskyneson. So why is proskyneson such a big deal for the angel that he rejected it and told John proskyneson should only be to God. Pagans can worship whatever they like, we talking of Jews here who fully understands that only ONE should be worshipped. When Peter met Cornelius in acts 10.25, Cornelius fell on the feet of Peter and worshipped him. . 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped (proskyneson) him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” Why did Peter reject proskyneson if it's just to bow as you insinuating. 2 Likes |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by AbuTwins: 12:59pm On Apr 25 |
SIRTee15: Bowing or prostrating for God is worship so it can be used for God! There's no difference between he knelt/bowed for God and he worshipped God in the Biblical context! When it comes to humans it is always bow/kneel that is used! So the translators determined what to use for Jesus to make him God! Why did the angel refuse worship from John in revelation if worship only meant to prostate.How do you worship as Christians? You clap, sing, dance, etc. Do the angels regard that as worship? No! Worship is to bow/kneel/put the face on the ground! Why did the angel tell John to worship only God.The First commandment! The word used for worship in the verses I quoted was proskyneson. What word do you expect to be used? I perfectly agree with you that the word is used to mean worship for Example: “Believe Me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship (proskynēsete) the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. John 4:21 But the traditional meaning is to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage. “At this the servant fell on his knees (prosekynei) before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ Matthew 18:26 Webster's Bible Translation The servant therefore fell down, and worshiped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. You can see the translators toying with your brain except if you have only eyes without insight! |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by SIRTee15: 3:22pm On Apr 25 |
AbuTwins: U have not answered my question. U are simply playing with semantics. John actually fell on his knees to worship the angel. But the angel rejected it. 8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!” He fell on his knees to worship the angel...why did the angel not accept it as sign of respect? Why did the angel regard John falling at his feet to proskyneson as something only for God. Pagans can worship whatever they like, we talking of Jews here who fully understands that only ONE should be worshipped. When Peter met Cornelius in acts 10.25, Cornelius fell on the feet of Peter and worshipped him. . 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped (proskyneson) him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” Why did Peter reject proskyneson if it's just to bow as you insinuating. Once again, Cornelius fell on his feet to worship...why did Peter not accept it as sign of respect. Why did Peter regard Cornelius falling at his feet to proskyneson something meant only for God. Yet Jesus was busy collecting proskyneson all over the place in Galilee and Judea. He didn't reject it and never corrected anybody not to fall at their feet to proskyneson him. Peter a disciple of Jesus rejected same proskyneson given to Jesus and told people it's only meant for God. The angel a heavenly being rejected same proskyneson given to Jesus and told people it's only meant for God. Why didn't Jesus say the same thing, why was Jesus collecting proskyneson meant only for God. That's my question. 1 Like |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by Lawag3: 3:40pm On Apr 25 |
AbuTwins: So what if I show you a verse from the Bible were Jesus says he is God? What will you do? Because Jesus refers to himself as God many times in the Bible |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:51am On Apr 26 |
Lawag3: ![]() |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MightySparrow: 6:48am On Apr 26 |
MaxInDHouse: Again, old friend! You explanation is logical but not exact. There is nothing unscriptural for Satan to reveal any truth. Truth is truth and cannot become lies because of the source. Devil revealed the identity of Christ Matt.8.29 - And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Devil revealed of Paul. Acts.16.16 - And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: Acts.16.17 - The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. Which of the claims of this demonic is not true? Balaam revealed the identity and prophesied about Israel. Num.24.16 - He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open: Num.24.17 - I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth. Num.24.18 - And Edom shall be a possession, Seir also shall be a possession for his enemies; and Israel shall do valiantly. Num.24.19 - Out of Jacob shall come he that shall have dominion, and shall destroy him that remaineth of the city. Which of the claims of Balaam was wrong? In the spiritual world are similarities and connectivity. After, the Devil was ousted out of heaven, he still found his way to the meeting of sons of God. How did he know the time of meeting? Who invented him? What was his mission? Why was he given admittance? The spiritual world is a continuum. Overzealous of men make unrealistic interpretations of the Bible. Is Jesus the Son of God? Was Paul a servant of God At the Mount of 'Temptation' Satan claimed the ownership of the earth. Jesus didn't rebuke him. Why? He was making a statement of fact. Luke 4: 6. Truth is truth no matter the source !!! 2 Likes |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MightySparrow: 6:59am On Apr 26 |
Jesus is God. I will like anyone on this platform to qoute a verse or a reference that shows that Jesus is not God. |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:10am On Apr 26 |
MightySparrow: The word we're talking about is (prosekynēsan) And it's use in the context of discussion it may be rendered OBEISANCE and WORSHIP. So if a believer is applying it since he knows the only true God {John 17:3} he won't say that it's worship when it involves someone who isn't the true God rather we will take it as obeisance but trinitarians who believes that Jesus is God always render this word as worship when it involves Jesus as for God's people Jesus is not our God so we render it as OBEISANCE! That's what we're discussing! ![]() |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MightySparrow: 7:17am On Apr 26 |
MaxInDHouse: I am a trinitarian. John 1:1 mentions two gods, right? |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:36am On Apr 26 |
MightySparrow: I have told you this times without number that the title GOD was used in the Bible for Moses and others so when God promised to send another prophet like Moses to the Israelites {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} and through Isaiah we read that this promised God will be born in the midst of Israelites {Isaiah 9:6} we know that he is not to be worshiped by God's people just as we don't think of worshiping Moses or other Gods mentioned in the Bible book of Psalms 82:6 That's why we render the Bible book of John 1:1-2 as: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God! So we are not confused regarding what John wrote in that verse! |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by AbuTwins: 8:42am On Apr 26 |
Lawag3: ![]() Okay Show us the verses where Jesus said he is God without ambiguity! Isaiah 45:5-6 The father directly calls himself God many times without ambiguity! I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me. I will equip you for battle, though you have not known Me, so that all may know, from where the sun rises to where it sets, that there is none but Me; I am the LORD, and there is no other Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand. |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by AbuTwins: 9:26am On Apr 26 |
SIRTee15: These are what you should tell your parents so that you stop worshipping them right? ![]() Why didn't Jesus stop them from falling down for him? Because Jesus is a messenger of God! And messengers of God are His representative on Earth! The word Shachah and Proskuneo aaccounts for more than 80% of what is translated as worship in the old testament and New Testament. Example Then the LORD said to Moses, “Come up to the LORD, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship (shachah) at a distance Exodus 24:1 Whenever the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance to the tent, they all stood and worshipped (shachah), each at the entrance to their tent. Exodus 33:10 The same worship (Shachah) is used below for humans: Genesis 19:1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. Lot worshipped Angels! Exodus 18:7 So Moses went out to meet his father-in-law and bowed down and kissed him. They greeted each other and then went into the tent. Moses worshiped his in law and kissed him! Na same Kiss o! ![]() Genesis 23:7 Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of the land, the Hittites. Abraham dey worship humans! Genesis 33:3 Then Jacob went on ahead. As he approached his brother, he bowed to the ground seven times before him. Jacob worshiped his brother! Genesis 42:6 Now Joseph was the governor of the land, the person who sold grain to all its people. So when Joseph’s brothers arrived, they bowed down to him with their faces to the ground. Joseph's family worshipped him! Matthew 18:26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ Is this worship too? 1 Kings 1:23 And the king was told, “Nathan the prophet is here.” So he went before the king and bowed with his face to the ground. Is this worship too? 2 Samuel 14:22 Joab fell with his face to the ground to pay him honor, and he blessed the king. Joab said, “Today your servant knows that he has found favor in your eyes, my lord the king, because the king has granted his servant’s request.” Is this worship too? 1 Samuel 24:8 Then David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, “My lord the king!” When Saul looked behind him, David bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. David worshipped Saul! 1 Kings 1:53 Then King Solomon sent men, and they brought him down from the altar. And Adonijah came and bowed down to King Solomon, and Solomon said, “Go to your home.” Adonijah worshipped Solomon too! So people worshipped Solomon, Saul, and many others! It is not only Jesus! But the hypocrisy is that only Jesus's own will be translated as worship others will be translated as bow down, Kneel down, fell down, etc. And the same word is translated! |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MightySparrow: 1:03pm On Apr 26 |
MaxInDHouse: That's the issue. That's why we render the Bible book of John 1:1-2 Your rendition gives another meaning to the real meaning. Jesus existed in heaven as the Word. He had an existence before the earthly existence. Was Moses incarnated? Is there any difference between the godship of Moses and that of Jesus? 1 Like |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MaxInDHouse(m): 1:28pm On Apr 26 |
MightySparrow:Different religions claiming Christians rendered the two verses differently it's what they're able to produce with their rendition that matters to me personally! Matthew 7:16-18 MightySparrow:Whatever meaning your own religion gives it is your church doctrine whether real or not what should matter most is the produce afterwards. MightySparrow:NO! Both of them are God's prophet and it's when they walked on earth that they served as Gods Moses was declared "God" by the Creator {Exodus 7:1} Jesus was also given whatever title he bear by the Creator! Isaiah 9:6 compare to Matthew 28:18 So when God declared that He will send another prophet like Moses we don't think of their godship as anything other than privileges to serve under the most high God who gave them the privilege! Deuteronomy 18:18-19 |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MightySparrow: 5:21pm On Apr 26 |
MaxInDHouse: John.1.14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. The Word became flesh....... What became Moses? |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by Janosky: 5:47pm On Apr 26 |
MightySparrow:Oga Sparrow, NWT, Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham Bible & Sahidic Coptic Bible gives the MOST AUTHENTIC RENDITION Of JOHN 1:1 & JOHN 10:33. Any verse where Theos ( God /a god ,Greek lexicon 2316) is mentioned more than once, the Greek manuscripts & the context differentiated whom that Theos is referring to, whether it is the Almighty God or not. Jesus Christ is a theos (with small letter) because he is a worshipper, John 10:34-36 & Revelation 3:12. John the apostle & the angels knows this: Greek Revelation 22:9 "Worship ho Theos (the God)" @ Greek John 1:1 is Jesus the word ho Theos? No nau !!!!!! NOBODY worships Jesus in heaven. MightySparrow: Jesus Christ is a prophet greater than Moses his fellow prophet.
|
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:51pm On Apr 26 |
MightySparrow: Because he existed before we exist means he's no ordinary human but in the context of being a prophet both himself and Moses are prophets and Gods not to be worshiped that's why both of them directed worshipers to the only true God who is Jehovah! |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MightySparrow: 2:46am On Apr 27 |
MaxInDHouse: Meaning, Jesus and Moses are not , by nature, in the same class of being, right? 1 Like |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:57am On Apr 27 |
MightySparrow:Of course they're not but when talking about their assignment as prophets it's the same none between the two should be worshiped! |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MightySparrow: 7:39am On Apr 27 |
MaxInDHouse: Why didn't Moses sacrifice himself if their assignment were the same? 1 Like |
Re: They Made Jesus God For Christians! by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:55am On Apr 27 |
MightySparrow:Guy the Bible said both of them are PROPHETS {Deuteronomy 18:18-19} Moses used animals because no human blood can blot out sin since we are all born in sin as descendants of Adam {Psalms 49:7-9 compare to Romans 3:23} only one who isn't a descendant of Adam and has not inherited sin could offer his own perfect human life to redeem mankind. That's why God's word equate Jesus and Adam {1Corinthians 15:45} because it's through one perfect man all humans inherited sin so it's through one perfect man that our sins could be removed! 1Corinthians 15:21 So they are equal as prophets but when it comes to their makeup Jesus is a perfect man who didn't inherit sin while Moses is a descendants of Adam! |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (Reply)
8 Questions For Nairaland Atheists. / Sunni And Shia Crisis: A Test Of Mohammed Prophethood / Why Do People Believe In God Even Without Evidence?
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 129 |